David Haye comeback.

Johner · 26-11-2015 06:32PM

If Mormeck is one of the best names on your CV then your CV isn't very good. A good fighter but a win over him is hardly worth shouting about.

Chris_Bradley · 26-11-2015 07:22PM

Haye for me is an absolute plonker, the behavior after he got trashed by Vlad and blaming it on his toe was a disgrace.

He'll make a whole load of dosh for doing a whole load of nothing.

Icaras · 26-11-2015 07:26PM

I always felt he was very over hyped by the British media (not surprising tbh) and he talked a good fight but was never really impressed with the few fights I saw.

What a the fight to watch when he was in his hay day (see what I did there

)

Mantis Toboggan · 26-11-2015 07:43PM

pac_man wrote: »

Big Trouble? I think you need to look at that Chisora fight again.

I feel that Haye often gets unfairly criticised for his stamina purely on the basis of that Thompson fight.

OK not big trouble but chisora had the measure of him. Caught him lovely for the ko though.

Frank Bullitt · 26-11-2015 08:15PM

Tyson Fury wrote: »

OK not big trouble but chisora had the measure of him. Caught him lovely for the ko though.

Really? Haye was in total control of that match from the get-go.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 26-11-2015 08:17PM

pac_man wrote: »

With the percentage cuts that managers, promoters, trainers and even sanctioning bodies take out of a purse

Sorry to go back off topic, but was always curious how a promotional contract worked.

Say Anthony Joshua signs a new agreement with Matchroom. Does Hearn pay him for exclusivity and guarantee him a certain amount of dates? Or does Joshua pay Hearn a portion of every purse he gets, so Hearn is incentivised to get him more fights?

megadodge · 26-11-2015 08:24PM

Gintonious wrote: »

Really? Haye was in total control of that match from the get-go.

I suggest you watch it again then.
Not long before the KO I remember thinking that Haye just wasn't strong enough to hold off Chisora, who was beginning to bully him. The KO came just in time.

megadodge · 26-11-2015 08:29PM

pac_man wrote: »

Just to keep the thread on-topic, I highly doubt Haye is broke. He made 10M+ from the Wlad fight alone.

I agree. I seriously doubt he has money issues.

I suppose because of the many sad stories it's almost de rigueur when any boxer decides to comeback, immediately there's the cliched 'must have money issues' when in reality most of them miss the spotlight and the actual boxing itself.

Frank Bullitt · 26-11-2015 09:23PM

megadodge wrote: »

I suggest you watch it again then.
Not long before the KO I remember thinking that Haye just wasn't strong enough to hold off Chisora, who was beginning to bully him. The KO came just in time.

Are you sure you were watching the same fight?

thierry14 · 27-11-2015 07:24AM

TheNap wrote: »

I think people are being very harsh on Haye.

He unified the cruiserweight division .

Moved to heavyweight and won a world title.

That IMO is a fantastic career

I agree

He lost against the world's best 6'6, 17.5 stone superheavy.

As fans it was our fault for believing the sky hype train

Looking back we were very foolish to think he would go in there and blast through a 6'6 skilled giant as if he was a bum.

Haye could have given it more maybe, but that's an easy thing to say until you get in there and fight an elite superheavy with exceptional ko power who out weights you by 2 over stone and towers over you.

He had a punchers chance against Wlad that was it.

It will be the same if he fights Joshua, Fury, Wilder etc down the road.

You can't give away 2 stone and several inches in height and reach unless you are far more skilled and fitter than your opponent, which Haye isn't.

Haye is older now, will be a little slower, easier to hit, I don't see him going far.

A Shaved Duck? · 27-11-2015 09:33AM

Johner wrote: »

If Mormeck is one of the best names on your CV then your CV isn't very good. A good fighter but a win over him is hardly worth shouting about.

At the time of the fight Mormeck was most definitley a massive name at cruiserweight and haye went to france to unify the division in the tiny Palais des Sport Marcel Cerdan where the fans are practically on top of the ring and the atmosphere was extremely hostile.

Taken in the correct context its a very good win based on Mormecks rep at Cruiser, the fact that he was ten years younger and it was a fight to unify the division.

walshb · 27-11-2015 09:46AM

Mormeck was a smaller man and was a man that was past his best. Ten years older than Haye in the wrong sense. Haye was 24/25 at the time. A real physical specimen against an aged and samller man. Good win, but far from great! Even worse was the fact that Wlad defended against Mormeck a few years after this if memory serves me.

A Shaved Duck? · 27-11-2015 09:50AM

walshb wrote: »

Mormeck was a smaller man and was a man that was past his best. Ten years older than Haye in the wrong sense. Haye was 24/25 at the time. A real physical specimen against an aged and samller man. Good win, but far from great! Even worse was the fact that Wlad defended against Mormeck afew years after this if memory serves me.

Im not trying to say mormeck was a killer, simply adding some context that at the time he was the man at cruiser with the titles and it was a good win to have on hayes record in that context. Nobody is saying that it was the greatest win ever but there is a bit of revisionism going on when at the time it was a legit fight and haye stepped up.

The mormeck thats fighting now isnt 50% of the fighter that haye faced..

Littlehorny · 27-11-2015 09:53AM

thierry14 wrote: »

I agree

He lost against the world's best 6'6, 17.5 stone superheavy.

As fans it was our fault for believing the sky hype train

Looking back we were very foolish to think he would go in there and blast through a 6'6 skilled giant as if he was a bum.

Haye could have given it more maybe, but that's an easy thing to say until you get in there and fight an elite superheavy with exceptional ko power who out weights you by 2 over stone and towers over you.

He had a punchers chance against Wlad that was it.

It will be the same if he fights Joshua, Fury, Wilder etc down the road.

You can't give away 2 stone and several inches in height and reach unless you are far more skilled and fitter than your opponent, which Haye isn't.

Haye is older now, will be a little slower, easier to hit, I don't see him going far.

Exactly, Haye fell into the trap of believing his power would blow all before him away, Naseem Hammed thought the very same thing. They soon learned that this doesn't happen against the elite guys. As you said he is a small heavyweight by todays standards and he wasn't a bad fighter but an Evander Holyfield he is not.

TheNap · 27-11-2015 10:57AM

Halloween Jack wrote: »

On the face of it, and out of context maybe, but like Walsh says, no defining win and lost against the only truly world class fighter he fought

Its the hypocisry that annoys me . What is GGGs signature win ? Considering him and Haye are roughly the same age ?

walshb · 27-11-2015 10:59AM

TheNap wrote: »

Its the hypocisry that annoys me . What is GGGs signature win ? Considering him and Haye are roughly the same age ?

GGG hasn't retired yet. When he does we can discuss this.

TheNap · 27-11-2015 11:12AM

walshb wrote: »

GGG hasn't retired yet. When he does we can discuss this.

Both are active now . Who has the better professional cv ?

Littlehorny · 27-11-2015 11:12AM

TheNap wrote: »

Its the hypocisry that annoys me . What is GGGs signature win ? Considering him and Haye are roughly the same age ?

To be fair GGG is probably the busiest top fighter at the moment and the other top guy or guys in his division are talking about fighting him but it's only talk at the moment.

TheNap · 27-11-2015 11:30AM

Littlehorny wrote: »

To be fair GGG is probably the busiest top fighter at the moment and the other top guy or guys in his division are talking about fighting him but it's only talk at the moment.

I should be clear here . Im not having a pop at GGG . You can only beat what your division has to offer . He is doing the same as Haye did . I just feel its unfair to have a pop at Haye about his cv and not others.

Halloween Jack · 27-11-2015 11:33AM

TheNap wrote: »

Its the hypocisry that annoys me . What is GGGs signature win ? Considering him and Haye are roughly the same age ?

If you can find a post I've authored extolling the greatness of golovkin you can accuse me of hypocrisy....

Halloween Jack · 27-11-2015 11:36AM

TheNap wrote: »

I should be clear here . Im not having a pop at GGG . You can only beat what your division has to offer . He is doing the same as Haye did . I just feel its unfair to have a pop at Haye about his cv and not others.

If golovkin moved up a division and started saying he was gonna clear it out, called out the champions in an increasingly embarrassing fashion, then ducked the best fighter in the division and got schooled by the second best then the analogy might hold.

TheNap · 27-11-2015 11:57AM

Halloween Jack wrote: »

If golovkin moved up a division and started saying he was gonna clear it out, called out the champions in an increasingly embarrassing fashion, then ducked the best fighter in the division and got schooled by the second best then the analogy might hold.

Sorry i am looking at what he did do .

Halloween Jack · 27-11-2015 12:01PM

TheNap wrote: »

Sorry i am looking at what he did do .

Aye but that's what Haye did. Don't think anybody has a problem with what he did at cruiser, and in fact if he wasn't such an asshole people might have a bit more respect for what he did at heavy.

TheNap · 27-11-2015 12:04PM

Yes i agree with your views on him outside the ring . But to unify a division and then move up to heavyweight and win a world title is a great career IMO. Thats the only point im making .

walshb · 27-11-2015 12:21PM

TheNap wrote: »

Both are active now . Who has the better professional cv ?

Ok, then in a nutshell GGG is the clear MW in the division. Streets ahead of anyone else. Haye never really had that about him. He had a decent career with some decent wins, but very little to get wowed about. That's not a diss, just a fact. I like Haye and I think he is and was a talent. He just didn't really reach the heights.

walshb · 27-11-2015 12:23PM

TheNap wrote: »

Yes i agree with your views on him outside the ring . But to unify a division and then move up to heavyweight and win a world title is a great career IMO. Thats the only point im making .

Yes, but really, who did he beat to win the title? A man that Holyfield almost beat. He then defended against two very poor challengers. Lost his only real HW challenge without putting up much of a fight.

Halloween Jack · 27-11-2015 12:39PM

walshb wrote: »

Ok, then in a nutshell GGG is the clear MW in the division. Streets ahead of anyone else. Haye never really had that about him. He had a decent career with some decent wins, but very little to get wowed about. That's not a diss, just a fact. I like Haye and I think he is and was a talent. He just didn't really reach the heights.

This I a good point, I remember being mildly excited when he moved up to heavy, thought at the very least we'd get a live and entertaining scrap with one of the bros. he talked it up but completely failed to deliver.

TheNap · 27-11-2015 01:01PM

I do understand the points ye are making.

However i think once you becoming a world champion you have had a successful career ( look at the thousands of others who dont ) He became a world champ , unified , moved up and became world champ again.

I dont know how you can say its not a great career.

Lets agree to disagree

walshb · 27-11-2015 01:12PM

TheNap wrote: »

I do understand the points ye are making.

However i think once you becoming a world champion you have had a successful career ( look at the thousands of others who dont ) He became a world champ , unified , moved up and became world champ again.

I dont know how you can say its not a great career.

Lets agree to disagree

I understand this. But for the sake of debate and discussion we are analysing this career in relation to the history of the sport so to speak. He had a good career, but when I think of it I don't feel that it was special or approaching special. It's a very average career as regards elite.

Take Rigo for example. Haye's career for me is a lot better than Rigo's. That may be difficult for some to get, but for me Haye has done more and achieved more.

Halloween Jack · 27-11-2015 01:20PM

TheNap wrote: »

I do understand the points ye are making.

However i think once you becoming a world champion you have had a successful career ( look at the thousands of others who dont ) He became a world champ , unified , moved up and became world champ again.

I dont know how you can say its not a great career.

Lets agree to disagree

I get your point too, on some level it seems barmy to say a unified and 2 weight champ hasn't had a great career.

From my own perspective I would think of him a lot kinder if he had gone out swinging vs. wlad, like he promised he would.

David Haye comeback.

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