Ian Madigan

jezzer

So Ian Madigan is reportedly considering heading to Bristol. Personally I think the IRFU should demand that Leinster play him more regularity, I mean, for a guy who featured heavily in the world cup for Ireland its shocking to say he cant get a game for a poor Leinster side...the only unused sub in the European games, it regularly happens to him....He is a very talented player, I know at times he can make mistakes but he will only learn from playing regularly. There is big money on offer at Bristol and regular game time, but that will effectively put an end to his Ireland career much the way it did for Bob Casey. I think he gets a raw deal in Ireland and 500k is a lot of money...

errlloyd

It's not always the end of your Ireland career. Mike Ross and Tommy Bowe did okay out of their moves. It's yet to be seen how JJ Hanrahan gets on. There would be a lot of Irish number 10s playing first team rugby if he moved. Steenson, Madigan, JJ, Sexton, Keatley, Jackson.

sydthebeat

i still think it was ridiculous that our reserve 10 in the world cup was not first choice 10 for his club.

if ian really wants to play outhalf to his highest level, then for madigan and ireland the best thing for him to do is to leave leinster, ply his trade abroad for 2 or 3 seasons and see how he gets on.

hes been a "promising" player now for the last 6 years... its time to realise that promise

vienne86

When Madigan is on song, he is great. This is usually when the pack are dominating, but then the can make any fly half look good. But he has had too many bad performances for Leinster be considered a reliable 10. He had a great opportunity when Sexton went to Paris, and IMO he didn't take that opportunity. Leinster can't afford to give him starts at 10 for the sake of HIS career. If going away gets him regular first team starts, then he should go.

jezzer

errlloyd wrote: »

It's not always the end of your Ireland career. Mike Ross and Tommy Bowe did okay out of their moves. It's yet to be seen how JJ Hanrahan gets on. There would be a lot of Irish number 10s playing first team rugby if he moved. Steenson, Madigan, JJ, Sexton, Keatley, Jackson.

you can add carty to that list.

Madigan needs to be developed, not left on the bench, he is without doubt the best option after sexton

vienne86

Well if he is being offered the kind of money being rumoured, then he'd be mad not to go.

Pudsy33

jezzer wrote: »

you can add carty to that list.

Madigan needs to be developed, not left on the bench, he is without doubt the best option after sexton

He's 26 at this stage, I'm not sure how much developing he has left. I'm as big of a fan of Madigan as there is but I think his ship has sailed to some degree. He had his chance to grab the 10 jersey with both hands when Sexton was gone and he didn't take it. He's carved out a decent Ireland career for himself by being versatile, but in truth it's both a blessing and a curse. If he decides he wants to go to England and play out half, well for him, but I think it'll hamper his Ireland ambitions.

I maintain he's one of the most naturally gifted players I have seen in ages, but we can't just blame MOC and Cullen for not playing him.

sydthebeat

Pudsy33 wrote: »

If he decides he wants to go to England and play out half, well for him, but I think it'll hamper his Ireland ambitions.
.

hes 4 years younger than sexton

he could feasibly go abroad and have a sterling few season, and come back in 2018 to an irish province to push sexton for the irish spot if hes good enough.

in that time however i feel jackson will have progressed beyond him

jezzer

Pudsy33 wrote: »

He's 26 at this stage, I'm not sure how much developing he has left. I'm as big of a fan of Madigan as there is but I think his ship has sailed to some degree. He had his chance to grab the 10 jersey with both hands when Sexton was gone and he didn't take it. He's carved out a decent Ireland career for himself by being versatile, but in truth it's both a blessing and a curse. If he decides he wants to go to England and play out half, well for him, but I think it'll hamper his Ireland ambitions.

I maintain he's one of the most naturally gifted players I have seen in ages, but we can't just blame MOC and Cullen for not playing him.

O Connor was wrong to play Gopereth ahead of him

Pudsy33

sydthebeat wrote: »

hes 4 years younger than sexton

he could feasibly go abroad and have a sterling few season, and come back in 2018 to an irish province to push sexton for the irish spot if hes good enough.

in that time however i feel jackson will have progressed beyond him

Agreed about Jackson, I meant to include that!

poteen

Time to get some pressure on Sexton. His performances are in free-fall.

former total

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I maintain he's one of the most naturally gifted players I have seen in ages, but we can't just blame MOC and Cullen for not playing him.

Yeah, pretty much. It's easily forgotten that Gopperth was recruited by Joe, and if Joe had seen out his Leinster contract, I don't think things would have gone much differently for Madigan.

jezzer

poteen wrote: »

Time to get some pressure on Sexton. His performances are in free-fall.

i agree there, i think we are comign towards the end of a golden era for irish rugby, the provinces arent as strong as they were and key big players have moved on, hopefully we can build it back up again

LuckyLloyd

He had a chance to establish himself as the no.10 at Leinster and he didn't take it. I think it would be best for all concerned if he took a big money offer to start for a Premiership outfit. From an Irish perspective, if it works out and he plays well there he can be revisited in a couple of years time.

I think Jackson will be a much better outhalf over the long haul however.

sydthebeat

jezzer wrote: »

O Connor was wrong to play Gopereth ahead of him

madigan had too many stinkers to demand the position

vienne86

sydthebeat wrote: »

madigan had too many stinkers to demand the position

Exactly. He can be excellent, but when he is bad, he is awful, and I rekcon coaches have felt that they just could no risk starting him.

CatFromHue

If he's being offered anywhere near that money than he should jump at it.

He prob wouldn't have been on much until 2 years ago and he wouldn't be in the big money now either I'd imagine.

Neil3030

Our provincial game is on borrowed time if this is the kind of money we need to match to keep second string players.

sydthebeat

Neil3030 wrote: »

Our provincial game is on borrowed time if this is the kind of money we need to match to keep second string players.

its not really though

Bristol are a sugar daddy team who are investing way above the odds to try to gain promotion to the premiership, having fallen short on the last two occasions. Madigan while not perfect is probably a little bit more consistent than gavin henson to try to get them over the play off line (though they also have matthew morgan). Im sure darren hudson and jack o connell would be in contact with ian if the move is a serious one

errlloyd

Neil3030 wrote: »

Our provincial game is on borrowed time if this is the kind of money we need to match to keep second string players.

It's also just the Sterling. Exchange rate goes back to normal in a few years time and him and JJ won't be earning much less than if they were still here and getting a bit of international money.

Neil3030

sydthebeat wrote: »

its not really though

Bristol are a sugar daddy team who are investing way above the odds to try to gain promotion to the premiership, having fallen short on the last two occasions. Madigan while not perfect is probably a little bit more consistent than gavin henson to try to get them over the play off line (though they also have matthew morgan). Im sure darren hudson and jack o connell would be in contact with ian if the move is a serious one

Bristol are just overpaying for promotion...
And the irfu dropped the ball with johnny...
And JJ was frozen out at Munster...

There comes a time when you have to isolate the common factor here, methinks.

errlloyd

Neil3030 wrote: »

Bristol are just overpaying for promotion...
And the irfu dropped the ball with johnny...
And JJ was frozen out at Munster...

There comes a time when you have to isolate the common factor here, methinks.

And Heaslip just stayed at his province
And SOB just stayed at his province
And Kearney just stayed at his province
And Zebo just stayed at his province
And Murray just stayed at his province
And ROG just stayed at his province
And Ferris just stayed at his province
And BOD just stayed at his province
And Healy just stayed at his province
And Trimble just stayed at his province

etc. Nice pattern.

Zzippy

jezzer wrote: »

So Ian Madigan is reportedly considering heading to Bristol. Personally I think the IRFU should demand that Leinster play him more regularity, I mean, for a guy who featured heavily in the world cup for Ireland its shocking to say he cant get a game for a poor Leinster side...the only unused sub in the European games, it regularly happens to him....He is a very talented player, I know at times he can make mistakes but he will only learn from playing regularly. There is big money on offer at Bristol and regular game time, but that will effectively put an end to his Ireland career much the way it did for Bob Casey. I think he gets a raw deal in Ireland and 500k is a lot of money...

Any source or link for this?

ArmaniJeanss

Zzippy wrote: »

Any source or link for this?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro12/bristol-to-target-ian-madigan-with-500000ayear-offer-34228063.html

vienne86

Zzippy wrote: »

Any source or link for this?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro12/bristol-to-target-ian-madigan-with-500000ayear-offer-34228063.html

I know the Indo print a lot of rubbish, but you can't ignore it.

Neil3030

errlloyd wrote: »

And Heaslip just stayed at his province
And SOB just stayed at his province
And Kearney just stayed at his province
And Zebo just stayed at his province
And Murray just stayed at his province
And ROG just stayed at his province
And Ferris just stayed at his province
And BOD just stayed at his province
And Healy just stayed at his province
And Trimble just stayed at his province

etc. Nice pattern.

Why don't you include Mal O'Kelly, Chris Pim and the Claw while you're at it?

sydthebeat

Neil3030 wrote: »

Bristol are just overpaying for promotion...
And the irfu dropped the ball with johnny...
And JJ was frozen out at Munster...

There comes a time when you have to isolate the common factor here, methinks.

there is no common factor between those 3 statements

errlloyd

Neil3030 wrote: »

Why don't you include Mal O'Kelly, Chris Pim and the Claw while you're at it?

Exactly, a couple of lads going abroad is nothing new.

.ak

Ugh I'd hate to see the irfu force him into a side.

The reason he's not first choice in any position in Leinster is he's simply not good enough.

He's an outrageously talented athlete, but he's not the messiah.

former total

sydthebeat wrote: »

Im sure darren hudson and jack o connell would be in contact with ian if the move is a serious one

He'll get two wildly different opinions I'd say.

errlloyd

former total wrote: »

He'll get two wildly different opinions I'd say.

Has Hudson been released?

former total

errlloyd wrote: »

Has Hudson been released?

Playing for their reserves last I heard.

dub_skav

.ak wrote: »

Ugh I'd hate to see the irfu force him into a side.

The reason he's not first choice in any position in Leinster is he's simply not good enough.

He's an outrageously talented athlete, but he's not the messiah.

Is he a very naughty boy?

jezzer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He had a chance to establish himself as the no.10 at Leinster and he didn't take it. I think it would be best for all concerned if he took a big money offer to start for a Premiership outfit. From an Irish perspective, if it works out and he plays well there he can be revisited in a couple of years time.

I think Jackson will be a much better outhalf over the long haul however.

no way, jackson cant even kick for ulster, madigan never got a fair crack of the whip, o connor preferred gopereth to him so madigan never got a run of games to show his worth, also he would want to be very careful if signing for bristol, what if they dont make promotion, he will be stuck playing in the english division 2, that would be the end of him then, look at gavin henson..

jezzer

CatFromHue wrote: »

If he's being offered anywhere near that money than he should jump at it.

He prob wouldn't have been on much until 2 years ago and he wouldn't be in the big money now either I'd imagine.

80k, who are darren hudson and jack o connell?

ec18

errlloyd wrote: »

And Heaslip just stayed at his province - so far
And SOB just stayed at his province - so far {contract this summer}
And Kearney just stayed at his province
And Zebo just stayed at his province - so far {contract this summer}
And Murray just stayed at his province - so far {contract this summer}
And ROG just stayed at his province
And Ferris just stayed at his province
And BOD just stayed at his province
And Healy just stayed at his province - so far
And Trimble just stayed at his province - so far

etc. Nice pattern.

Since we are starting to hear about people being approached by foreign clubs

errlloyd

jezzer wrote: »

80k, who are darren hudson and jack o connell?

Two talented Leinster academy graduates who went to Bristol for gametime.

Hudson was considered by many on here as equal to Conway and D'Kearney. He's a winger, and hasn't made it at Bristol.

JOC is a prop, very good, but in a very long queue of props. He has got a lot of gametime over in Bristol.

NiallBoo

Pity, I would have really liked to have seen him move to Connacht.
A goal kicker of his standard would be enough to win them a couple of games more per year and see them into the champions cup.
(whatever else you think about him, he IS a top-drawer goal kicker, the stats don't lie on that.)

Neil3030

sydthebeat wrote: »

there is no common factor between those 3 statements

errlloyd wrote: »

Exactly, a couple of lads going abroad is nothing new.

I sincerely hope your optimism is rewarded but the recent and monumental context shift is very much apparent in this offer (if it materialises).

vienne86

jezzer wrote: »

no way, jackson cant even kick for ulster, madigan never got a fair crack of the whip, o connor preferred gopereth to him so madigan never got a run of games to show his worth, also he would want to be very careful if signing for bristol, what if they dont make promotion, he will be stuck playing in the english division 2, that would be the end of him then, look at gavin henson..

I think Jackson is a much better 10 than Madigan. His passing is sublime. He is good at getting the back line going and distributes the ball rather than always trying to do the job himself. He can kick very well, but I think his kicking suffers because Pienaar is in the team.

connemara man

NiallBoo wrote: »

Pity, I would have really liked to have seen him move to Connacht.
A goal kicker of his standard would be enough to win them a couple of games more per year and see them into the champions cup.
(whatever else you think about him, he IS a top-drawer goal kicker, the stats don't lie on that.)

He is a great goal kicker but one of Connachts major issues has been game management and control. Madigan has proven that he isn't all that effective when the physical battle is going against the team and he is on the back foot, and in that sense he'd cost Connacht more matches than he'd win.

This is all personal opinion.

(Also every time Madigan gets brought up send him to Connacht tends to follow pretty quickly which is almost as annoying as the Henshaw to Leinster stuff)

jezzer

NiallBoo wrote: »

Pity, I would have really liked to have seen him move to Connacht.
A goal kicker of his standard would be enough to win them a couple of games more per year and see them into the champions cup.
(whatever else you think about him, he IS a top-drawer goal kicker, the stats don't lie on that.)

they seem to be trying to develop carty down there now, also AJ McGinty is there too

NiallBoo

jezzer wrote: »

they seem to be trying to develop carty down there now, also AJ McGinty is there too

Yeah, I think it's too late now that McGinty has been signed. I just generally think it's a good idea to keep talent in the country if we can. I also think having such a good goal-kicker would there would have helped carty develop his kicking.

Also: did anyone else see that Harlequins are rumoured to be interested in Madigan too?

bilston

vienne86 wrote: »

I think Jackson is a much better 10 than Madigan. His passing is sublime. He is good at getting the back line going and distributes the ball rather than always trying to do the job himself. He can kick very well, but I think his kicking suffers because Pienaar is in the team.

Jackson kicked ahead of Pienaar last weekend against Saracens (exception of one long range attempt) so I think he is probably Ulster's kicker now. It will be interesting to see what impact that has on his game and his Ireland chances.

Clareman

Considering Madigan is more than likely going to be involved in every Ireland squad and assuming he won't get picked ahead of a fit Sexton for Leinster, the only option for him to get game time his only option will be to leave Leinster. I assume the IRFU's first choice would be for him to move to another province, that would mean him getting passed a 20something in the other provinces, that's not really a good option, the best option for all concerned would be for him to go overseas, from an Ireland point of view I'd much prefer him playing consistently rather than being stuck warming the bench.

Hagz

But will he continue to get picked if he goes abroad? It would suit Ireland better if he was starting consistently abroad IF they were still willing to include him. But do they want to select a player abroad who isn't of the calibre of Sexton? What kind of precedent would it set?

thomond2006

Hagz wrote: »

But will he continue to get picked if he goes abroad? It would suit Ireland better if he was starting consistently abroad IF they were still willing to include him. But do they want to select a player abroad who isn't of the calibre of Sexton? What kind of precedent would it set?

He cannot negotiate a release clause for training camps either outside of the international window. The Premiership clamped down on it after George North.

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

He cannot negotiate a release clause for training camps either outside of the international window. The Premiership clamped down on it after George North.

Sexton negotiated realease from Racing for Ireland camps.

phog

vienne86 wrote: »

Sexton negotiated realease from Racing for Ireland camps.

Thomond mentioned the Premiership clamping down on it.

Anyway, Sexton would have a lot more bargaining power than the likes of Madigan.

Clareman

Johnny Sexton signed a contract as starting Lion outhalf, you can be sure he could dictate a bit more than mere mortals, I wouldn't expect Madigan to have the same bargaining power however, I'd expect him to get the same release as other internationals, didn't do Geordan Murphy's international career any harm.

corny

Best for all concerned if he moves on.

If true, the money they're throwing at him is insane.