Forced Prayer in Cinema?

BizzyC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34891928
The Church of England has said it is "disappointed and bewildered" by the refusal of leading UK cinemas to show an advert featuring the Lord's Prayer.
The Church called the decision "plain silly" and warned it could have a "chilling" effect on free speech.
It had hoped the 60-second film would be screened UK-wide before Christmas ahead of the new Star Wars film.
The agency that handles adverts for the cinemas said it could offend those of "differing faiths and no faith".
The advert features the Christian prayer being recited or sung by a variety of people.
They include refugees, a grieving son, weightlifters at a gym, a sheep farmer, a gospel choir and the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Most Reverend Justin Welby.

So it seems that the church of England think they're entitled to have people in a cinema sit through prayer because it's "advertisement".

The cinema chains have rejected the ad, rightly so in my opinion.
I'd imagine if a muslim group tried the same they'd be up in arms against it.

If I buy tickets to see a movie, I don't want to have to sit through something that goes against my own beliefs.

What's the AH take on this, correct censorship or PC-brigade?

hatrickpatrick

I agree with them, but I'd apply the same to all of the other belief systems which I'd imagine they would want to deny a platform to. Free speech is free speech, I don't believe in platform restriction.

jimgoose

Cake or Death!!

ancapailldorcha

Cinema's discretion, ultimately.

Lux23

I don't really care, its just a poem, nothing to get offended by.

And how is an advert featuring a prayer, forced prayer? Do you have to stand up and recite it along to the advert?

smash

Lux23 wrote: »

I don't really care, its just a poem, nothing to get offended by.

And how is an advert featuring a prayer, forced prayer? Do you have to stand up and recite it along to the advert?

yep. Otherwise you're GOING TO HELL!!!!!!

Nerdlingr

And yet they'd make us sit through those sh*t John Lewis adverts.

Penn

"In a statement, DCM said it had a policy of not accepting political or religious advertising content in its cinemas.
It said that "some advertisements - unintentionally or otherwise - could cause offence to those of differing political persuasions, as well as to those of differing faiths and indeed of no faith," and that "in this regard, DCM treats all political or religious beliefs equally"."

Can't argue with that, yet completely unsurprising that the church is arguing with that.

Shenshen

This has nothing to do with free speech - the archbishop is very welcome to pray outside the cinema before every show if he fancies it.
But the cinema is not obliged to give him a platform. People seem to forget that quite easily.

Edit: You have to wonder at the CoE wanting to spend that much money on a cinema ad, though. Don't they have anything better to do with their wealth?

Lone Stone

I don't pay to sit and listen to religious ****e before a movie, they can feck off.

jimgoose

Shenshen wrote: »

This has nothing to do with free speech - the archbishop is very welcome to pray outside the cinema before every show if he fancies it.
But the cinema is not obliged to give him a platform. People seem to forget that quite easily.

Do you want groups of radicalised Anglicans driving around in Rover 75s pushing newsletters into people's letterboxes? Do you?? Because you're going the right way about it with that sort of talk.

BizzyC

Lux23 wrote: »

I don't really care, its just a poem, nothing to get offended by.
And how is an advert featuring a prayer, forced prayer? Do you have to stand up and recite it along to the advert?

That's what some are arguing; Cinema goers are a "captive audience", so the prayer is being "forced" on them.

I wonder if it was an ad for the church, without an actual prayer being said over it, would it be acceptable to more people?

Orangebrigade

I think the excuse from the cinema is odd because movies promote all sorts of ideologies and religious themes and other such matters. Just because it is an "official" advertisement.

IvySlayer

A 60-second ad though? Who wants to watch that?

Shenshen

jimgoose wrote: »

Do you want groups of radicalised Anglicans driving around in Rover 75s pushing newsletters into people's letterboxes? Do you?? Because you're going the right way about it with that sort of talk.

If they can get near my letterbox for all the Jehova's Witnesses and Legion of Mary recruiters...

Tabnabs

Penn wrote: »

"In a statement, DCM said it had a policy of not accepting political or religious advertising content in its cinemas.
It said that "some advertisements - unintentionally or otherwise - could cause offence to those of differing political persuasions, as well as to those of differing faiths and indeed of no faith," and that "in this regard, DCM treats all political or religious beliefs equally"."

Can't argue with that, yet completely unsurprising that the church is arguing with that.

And yet how different the argument was when LGBT rights (a political campaign) wasn't accepted by a bakery. Very few were saying "their shop, their call"...

Either you accept free speech or allow freedom of concious.

Shenshen

Orangebrigade wrote: »

I think the excuse from the cinema is odd because movies promote all sorts of ideologies and religious themes and other such matters. Just because it is an "official" advertisement.

Reverse flow of payments, though.

Cinemas pay studios to show films, and will take money off the general public if these want to go see the the movies. So it's the public's choice, they pay for what they want to see.

With ads, the advertiser pays the cinema to show their clip, and the public will see it if they like it or not when they come to see the film.
It makes sense that the cinema owners would be careful about what ads they'll accept in that case.

jimgoose

Shenshen wrote: »

If they can get near my letterbox for all the Jehova's Witnesses and Legion of Mary recruiters...

If you've any fruit-cake, throw it from an upstairs window into the middle of the road, that'll clear 'em temporarily so you can get out and make a run for the car. Like chaff to a heatseeker. :pac:

suicide_circus

They'd want to be careful, they could get done under advertising standards legislation ie: making completely unfounded claims about their product or service. Same goes for all religions obviously.

Paramite Pie

If a cinema did allow political and religious advertisements then I'd have no objections to showing the Ad. But if it's their policy not to then so be it. Church over-reaction.

But I wonder how some of my fellow atheists would react if some cinemas did allow such ads (including other religions)? It's a fairly innocuous prayer overall. No fire and brimstone.

I wouldn't care, personally. We as a society are too easily offended.

suicide_circus

Tabnabs wrote: »

And yet how different the argument was when LGBT rights (a political campaign) wasn't accepted by a bakery. Very few were saying "their shop, their call"...

Either you accept free speech or allow freedom of concious.

Nicely played.

Orangebrigade

Shenshen wrote: »

Reverse flow of payments, though.

Cinemas pay studios to show films, and will take money off the general public if these want to go see the the movies. So it's the public's choice, they pay for what they want to see.

With ads, the advertiser pays the cinema to show their clip, and the public will see it if they like it or not when they come to see the film.
It makes sense that the cinema owners would be careful about what ads they'll accept in that case.

Who cares though?

Who is going to sit down to watch Star Wars next month and even notice this? People will be too pumped up to notice. Unless you are a raving Atheist who sees religion in everything.

Shenshen

Tabnabs wrote: »

And yet how different the argument was when LGBT rights (a political campaign) wasn't accepted by a bakery. Very few were saying "their shop, their call"...

Either you accept free speech or allow freedom of concious.

You could argue that showing ads is not the primary purpose of a cinema.
So they're not exactly denying anyone access to something they've specifically set up shop to provide.

keithclancy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wACMBsCTX78

Maybe Aer Lingus could play the Angelus

Rawr

They could try something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNQVLtqOcrc

ScumLord

The church is trying to stop people becoming Jedi. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the church is dumb enough to see the force as a real threat to the holy trinity.

jimgoose

Shenshen wrote: »

You could argue that showing ads is not the primary purpose of a cinema.
So they're not exactly denying anyone access to something they've specifically set up shop to provide.

The whole "Jedi" thing was/is inspired by, among other things, Hinduism, Taoism and Shintō, all of which are religions.

Shenshen

Orangebrigade wrote: »

Who cares though?

Who is going to sit down to watch Star Wars next month and even notice this? People will be too pumped up to notice. Unless you are a raving Atheist who sees religion in everything.

You seem to care enough to post about it.

suicide_circus

Shenshen wrote: »

You could argue that showing ads is not the primary purpose of a cinema.
So they're not exactly denying anyone access to something they've specifically set up shop to provide.

You could argue that but its not a watertight argument. They probably make more from the ads than the feature film

Shenshen

jimgoose wrote: »

The whole "Jedi" thing was/is inspired by, among other things, Hinduism, Taoism and Shintō, all of which are religions.

Well, yes. "Jedi" is a recognised religion in its own rights in some parts, I understand.
And like all religions, it's cobbled together of whatever came before it

Jayop

Tabnabs wrote: »

And yet how different the argument was when LGBT rights (a political campaign) wasn't accepted by a bakery. Very few were saying "their shop, their call"...

Either you accept free speech or allow freedom of concious.

Not, if they refused entry to religious people based on their faith it would be comparable. This is not.

Jayop

jimgoose wrote: »

The whole "Jedi" thing was/is inspired by, among other things, Hinduism, Taoism and Shintō, all of which are religions.

And I am sure that the many dozens of films about Jesus have been shown there. Again, an advert isn't the same as a film.

jimgoose

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, yes. "Jedi" is a recognised religion in its own rights in some parts, I understand.
And like all religions, it's cobbled together of whatever came before it

Indeed it is, and 'twas ever thus. You see, by any practical measurement of it religion works. In terms of market share over time, it knocks Coca-Cola, Wal-Mart and the Ford Motor Company right out of the park. :pac:

Orangebrigade

Shenshen wrote: »

You seem to care enough to post about it.

Lame and old.

asherbassad

BizzyC wrote: »

So it seems that the church of England think they're entitled to have people in a cinema sit through prayer because it's "advertisement".

The cinema chains have rejected the ad, rightly so in my opinion.
I'd imagine if a muslim group tried the same they'd be up in arms against it.

If I buy tickets to see a movie, I don't want to have to sit through something that goes against my own beliefs.

What's the AH take on this, correct censorship or PC-brigade?

But you'll happily sit through a few hours of Light Sabres and light speed travel.

:pac:

Penn

Tabnabs wrote: »

And yet how different the argument was when LGBT rights (a political campaign) wasn't accepted by a bakery. Very few were saying "their shop, their call"...

Either you accept free speech or allow freedom of concious.

Not particularly. I would fully agree that a bakery being asked to make a pro-LGBT rights cake should be allowed to refuse for political/religious reasons. However, a bakery being asked to make a cake for a same-sex wedding shouldn't, because that's discriminating against a customer based solely on the sexuality of the customer, when they offer that same service to opposite-sex weddings.

Likewise, if the cinema refuses to show an ad of a Christian prayer, they should be allowed to do so. But if they refused to let customers in because they were Christians, that's discrimination.

Tabnabs

Jayop wrote: »

Not, if they refused entry to religious people based on their faith it would be comparable. This is not.

No, the bakery wasn't refusing to serve LGBT people in their shop, they were refusing to 'advertise' their campaign.

I see no difference with the cinema chain refusing to 'advertise' the church.

Both businesses will take your money as a customer, but won't allow their premises used as a platform for promoting religious/political issues by an organisation.

LordSutch

I just think that it's ironic that in the week before Christmas a prayer to Christ is not allowed.

Shenshen

LordSutch wrote: »

I just think that it's ironic that in the week before Christmas a prayer to Christ is not allowed.

Why? Who's stopping anyone from praying?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

It's am advertisment like any other advertisement. And the privaetly-owned medium in question can choose whther or not to broadcast it as they see fit.

Jayop

Tabnabs wrote: »

No, the bakery wasn't refusing to serve LGBT people in their shop, they were refusing to 'advertise' their campaign.

I see no difference with the cinema chain refusing to 'advertise' the church.

Both businesses will take your money as a customer, but won't allow their premises used as a platform for promoting religious/political issues by an organisation.

They were refusing to allow access to their core business, i.e. making cakes on the grounds that these cakes were against their own personal religious beliefs.

The cinema will allow anyone in, they will allow any film to be displayed, but they have the right to choose who they are partnered with in the same way that a sports team could choose not to be associated with a weapons manufacturer if they wanted to be become their sponsors.

I'm sure this chain of cinemas showed the passion of Christ.

Jayop

LordSutch wrote: »

I just think that it's ironic that in the week before Christmas a prayer to Christ is not allowed.

Allanis?

Daith

Tabnabs wrote: »

I see no difference with the cinema chain refusing to 'advertise' the church.

Well no. The cinema chain refuses to advertise any religious or political message.

The Ashers bakery is different. They refused to bake the cake because they don't personally support same sex marriage not that they have a blanket ban on political/religious messages.

Nodin

jimgoose wrote: »

Cake or Death!!

There Is No Cake.

Jayop

Daith wrote: »

Well no. The cinema chain refuses to advertise any religious or political message.

The Ashers bakery is different. They refused to bake the cake because they don't personally support same sex marriage not that they have a blanket ban on political/religious messages.

Exactly, I'm sure they will do Communion cakes, Wedding cakes, Confirmation cakes, probably even things like Bar Mitzvah cakes. They picked one issue to discriminate against and that is illegal.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nodin wrote: »

There Is No Cake.

There is - we jst can't see it. But it is there.

The Backwards Man

Last time I was in a cinema the Pathé News was played before the film.

ScumLord

Tabnabs wrote: »

No, the bakery wasn't refusing to serve LGBT people in their shop, they were refusing to 'advertise' their campaign.

Campaign is a funny name for a wedding afters. I also didn't realise wedding cakes were classed as advertising space either.

hatrickpatrick

Shenshen wrote: »

But the cinema is not obliged to give him a platform.

There are those who believe that platform discrimination shouldn't be allowed. I'd be one of those, myself. And if you think about it, it's not an entirely outlandish view - most of the media and the message are now controlled by private, not public, gatekeepers. A law which obliges them not to ideologically discriminate would be a very good thing indeed.

Daith

Big Ian wrote: »

The cake controversy was a farce. If you don't support the gay rights movement you get hauled in front of a judge. What is this, a fuking communist country?

Well that happened in Northern Ireland.

Actually in Ireland a wedding card printer refused to print "Civil Partnership" cards. They have not in fact being hauled in front of Judge.

Nodin

Big Ian wrote: »

The cake controversy was a farce. If you don't support the gay rights movement you get hauled in front of a judge. What is this, a fuking communist country?

Jaysus, you're in rare form for a dead fellah.