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Farm spouse - where to learn the essentials

  • 22-11-2015 1:36am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16


    Can anyone give me a pointer where I can learn more about farming.

    The situation is that I am a part time nurse, married to a farmer and we have a 6 year old son. Unfortunately my husband has been diagnosed with cancer, and he is not aware just how very sick he is.
    We are mostly tillage and sheep, and with my wage we just about get by.  But I am worried about what will happen when my husband passes on - we desperately want to pass on the farm to my son but I'm concerned about making mistakes; getting into debt and losing it before he gets old enough to take over.
    We have no immediate family nearby and sadly I have seen some neighbours try to take advantage of my husband's good nature over the years, so I cannot entirely trust the people around us.  So, because it is down to me I really need to learn as much as possible so I can make decent decisions over the next fifteen years or so - only I feel like I know nothing and I don't know where to start.
    Also, does anyone know if the Department of Agriculture are in any way lenient when a farm is in transition.  Despite trying to do everything by the book my husband has lived in terror of Department of Ag inspections and I dread being fined because of missing something in the REPs/Glas rules.

    Sorry about the long post, any advice would be very welcome.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    Bili wrote: »
    Can anyone give me a pointer where I can learn more about farming.

    The situation is that I am a part time nurse, married to a farmer and we have a 6 year old son. Unfortunately my husband has been diagnosed with cancer, and he is not aware just how very sick he is.
    We are mostly tillage and sheep, and with my wage we just about get by.  But I am worried about what will happen when my husband passes on - we desperately want to pass on the farm to my son but I'm concerned about making mistakes; getting into debt and losing it before he gets old enough to take over.
    We have no immediate family nearby and sadly I have seen some neighbours try to take advantage of my husband's good nature over the years, so I cannot entirely trust the people around us.  So, because it is down to me I really need to learn as much as possible so I can make decent decisions over the next fifteen years or so - only I feel like I know nothing and I don't know where to start.
    Also, does anyone know if the Department of Agriculture are in any way lenient when a farm is in transition.  Despite trying to do everything by the book my husband has lived in terror of Department of Ag inspections and I dread being fined because of missing something in the REPs/Glas rules.

    Sorry about the long post, any advice would be very welcome.

    Sorry to hear your news . I would say to rent out the farm to a decent tenant for a few.years might be the best option .
    If your husband isn't around you will most likely have enough on your plate looking after a 6 yr old and everything else on your own without running a farm . Maybe keep a few sheep on some land around the house to keep ye used to working with them .
    Who knows what your son will want in 15 years and it might be better to get him aswell educated as possible and give him a chance to work in better paid industries and maybe travel before going farming .
    On the inspections, if your husband worried that much about them I'm guessing he has everything up to scratch. Does he have an ag advisor? If so they will tell you what you need to know about rules for GLAS and should answer any other questions that might be worrying you . It would be good to walk the farm with an advisor and your husband now to start making a plan on how you will go forward with it .
    Any questions at all you have lash them up here and they are usually answered well


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 255 ✭✭mattP


    I would think the best option would be for a lease. With all the best intentions in the world I don't think you would be able to keep the farm running smoothly and efficiently - you do have your job and your son to worry about too! You wouldn't necessarily have to lease to someone in the very near vicinity, as a lot of farmers are looking for land.
    Im so sorry, I know this must be very hard on all of you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭Miname


    The last thing I'd be thinking off is renting or leasing. It sounds like it's your husbands passion and it will probably pain him even more to see it gone. If it's tillage and sheep there's bound to be someone at least part time with the tractor work, are they just tractor jockeys or is there someone among them that may be suitable to help out? I hope it all works out and that your husband is stubborn enough to come out the right side of this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    If I were in your position, I would lease it. A good chat with an ag advisor, then a solicitor to make the lease water tight.

    I know the fear you have, my dad got sick, died within 8 months. I took over the farm which was in a bad way and I could feel the stress building up with all regulations. And until it is up to scratch, I'll just have to take my chances. A year later and I stil have a lot to do with it to ensure an income for my mam while having a family life of my own.

    The land is being transferred to me at the moment and my wife already knows what is to be done with it if anything happened to me- talk to my ag advisor, lease it out, focus on our daughter, if times got very tough financially, sell it.

    You have to have time for yourself and your son, ask yourself how can you take stress out of such a devastating and unfair situation.

    Best of luck with everything. I do hope that in this awful situation where it is a no win, that you, your oh and son have the best possible outcome.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Sorry to hear this OP. My heart goes out to you and your family... :(

    I'd say chat with husband and see what he thinks, it's all very well us saying what we think...

    Ask him who he thinks is the best lad around. Everyone knows a decent sort, even if he isn't that local... You'll need a someone tou trust to chat with no matter what you do...

    I'd be saying lease the most of it too, maybe keep a few acres around the house for a few sheep - to keep the interest more than anything.

    My ma was in a similar situation as you a long time ago, and she kept the whole farm going, with the help of good neighbours. In the end, we leased part of it, then all of it.
    In hindsight, I think keeping the while lot initially was too much. She was run ragged, full time job, plus farm plus kids...
    I should also say, my ma was into farming, and knew what she was at...
    A few fields, to lamb a few ewes would have been easier - and we still would have had all the interest / experience. Easy to talk now though...

    Lastly - this may be a bit tough to read, but if your husband is very sick, now is the time to cut back. Spend more time with family. Make the memories...

    Best of luck...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭Belongamick


    Sorry to hear about your situation - can be at anybodys doorstep.

    I would have to concur with previous posts - lease it.

    Keep with your job - regular income, good interaction with people, invest in your son - emotionally, in education etc.

    As previous posters mention seek advice from a good solicitor, accountant and probably auctioneer to lease it.

    My mother took on the family farm in different circumstances than yours but it did rob her of a livestyle and she felt very isolated and alone.

    If you are dealing with autioneers (lease) and a name pops up seek references from previous landowners to see were they happy or not.
    Would it be much easier for the auctioneer to handle the money side (for a fee) to save you the grief of chasing people for money owed?

    Best of luck..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    First you need to talk to your husband, often the person at the heart of these things can think clearer than than the person whos caring for them.in our case I was 16 when father died and I remember the conversation s in the immediate aftermath of what we would do but the thing is we mastered situations that we 4hought were impossible when he first went.a few years later a neighbour died with a young family next to us and I ran that place with my own for 5 or 6 years until the lads were old enough to sort it out themselves so theres always someone around that can help .the point is things work out and you dont have to have a plan for everything at the start and try and deal with one issue at the time.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So very sorry to hear of your situation. As other posters have said, leasing would be one option. Speak in confidence to a good farming based accountant. They will be best placed to advise on the most favourable tax conditions.
    Keep positive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    Bili wrote: »
    Can anyone give me a pointer where I can learn more about farming.

    The situation is that I am a part time nurse, married to a farmer and we have a 6 year old son. Unfortunately my husband has been diagnosed with cancer, and he is not aware just how very sick he is.
    We are mostly tillage and sheep, and with my wage we just about get by. But I am worried about what will happen when my husband passes on - we desperately want to pass on the farm to my son but I'm concerned about making mistakes; getting into debt and losing it before he gets old enough to take over.
    We have no immediate family nearby and sadly I have seen some neighbours try to take advantage of my husband's good nature over the years, so I cannot entirely trust the people around us. So, because it is down to me I really need to learn as much as possible so I can make decent decisions over the next fifteen years or so - only I feel like I know nothing and I don't know where to start.
    Also, does anyone know if the Department of Agriculture are in any way lenient when a farm is in transition. Despite trying to do everything by the book my husband has lived in terror of Department of Ag inspections and I dread being fined because of missing something in the REPs/Glas rules.

    Sorry about the long post, any advice would be very welcome.

    You've been dealt a severe blow and you've a hard road ahead.
    Try leasing anyway but don't make the land a noose around your neck.
    If leasing isn't paying enough, while you'd love for your son to have the farm, a few years in college will pay him tenfold what the farm will pay him, if he has the aptitude for it....but you'll know that before the big expenses start.
    Above all don't overdo it for the sake of keeping a bit of land.....you have to be there for him now and for a long while yet.
    I have no expertise only age but have seen many people thinking land was the be all and end all and destroying their health in the process of hanging on to it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Bili wrote: »
    Can anyone give me a pointer where I can learn more about farming.

    The situation is that I am a part time nurse, married to a farmer and we have a 6 year old son. Unfortunately my husband has been diagnosed with cancer, and he is not aware just how very sick he is.
    We are mostly tillage and sheep, and with my wage we just about get by. But I am worried about what will happen when my husband passes on - we desperately want to pass on the farm to my son but I'm concerned about making mistakes; getting into debt and losing it before he gets old enough to take over.
    We have no immediate family nearby and sadly I have seen some neighbours try to take advantage of my husband's good nature over the years, so I cannot entirely trust the people around us. So, because it is down to me I really need to learn as much as possible so I can make decent decisions over the next fifteen years or so - only I feel like I know nothing and I don't know where to start.
    Also, does anyone know if the Department of Agriculture are in any way lenient when a farm is in transition. Despite trying to do everything by the book my husband has lived in terror of Department of Ag inspections and I dread being fined because of missing something in the REPs/Glas rules.

    Sorry about the long post, any advice would be very welcome.


    Somewhat similar situation here many years ago.Circumstances are very individual and will dictate what course you might take.
    To be frank,without any knowledge of your particular circumstance its difficult to give advice but in general would feel long term leasing is something worth looking at if you feel that you wish to keep the farm for your son.
    In the early 1980s options such as this were unheard of and life/mortgage/health insurance etc were not commonplace amongst farmers.Also many spouses were full time at home and therefore had seen first hand what was involved.Farming has changed a lot since then.

    With a 6 year old it could be possibly 15 plus years before he is interested/capable of farming and at that stage he may or may not be interested.Thats a long time to maybe commit to something you might find challenging and not for you.
    Also in many cases people feel "obligated" to start or stay farming when it may not be what they feel is what they want to do in life.
    To use an analogy;if the situation was reversed how many people would expect your husband to take up your job,commit to it for 15 years without any experience and be happy?
    In summary now is the time to discuss this with your husband.Find out what his feelings are on the matter.Sometimes even spouses are surprised at what the other one really thinks.At least if you know what he would see as possible then you will feel happier that you were aware of his wishes.Too many people see hanging on to the farm at all costs as the only way.It can become a millstone that only causes regret.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    maybe there is someone here who could help directly.

    What part of the country are you in?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭epicmoe


    Hi billi, I was 18 when my father died. My mother was a housewife, and sometimes helped on the farm. I had worked alongside my father for 2 years after quitting school at 16. Neither me nor my mother had a clue about the business side of things and aren't very business orientated.

    We had a great help from some of our local neighbours, and some were the opposite. Over the few years, we definitely got taken advantage of in situations too, and caught breaking regulations. But its been 8 years, and we're finally on top of things, and the farm is back doing what tis supposed to.

    Depending on how much land you have, I would advise either planting (don't just plant it sitka spruce and leave it though, you will have to do some forestry management)or leasing *some* of it. pare back to what you can manage.Bear in mind you might also be eligible for widows pension.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭BnB


    Hi Bili

    I took over the family farm at short notice this year when my Father unfortunately died suddenly.

    I would have been fairly used to the practical side of farming as I would have helped out but not a clue RE any decision making. It is not my farm - it's my mother's farm and I just run it for her. She put no pressure on me to do it as I have a family and a full time job but I wanted to try it anyway and so far it is working well.

    There are a few things that have helped me. Firstly, even though I wasn't farming myself, a lot of my (and my father's) good friends are farmers and they have all been a really great help. It's not that I need them down every week with practical help, but just to have someone on the phone that I could give a quick call to, to ask them a few questions (Should I put the cattle in this week...... Should I sell a few now..... Is that grass ready to cut....... that kind of thing).

    I also have a few people who could help practically when needed. Mainly my brother-in-law who lives down the road - No farming experience but a helping hand when needed - And a young fella up the road who is the son of a farmer who I give a few quid to for a day - He's great especially around cattle.

    Also - I am dealing in very low stress farming. As I said, it's my Mams farm, she pays the bills and she gets the cheques. And my main focus is not causing her any stress. So I'm not spending any money or taking any risks. Just tipping away and keeping things going.

    Finally, I have a wife at home is is just brilliant and hasn't complained one single bit that I am gone now farming so much.

    Having said all that above, it has opened my eyes so much to the work that is involved in it. You are going to need help with the Practical side (actually doing the work) and with the business side (Making decisions) . Anyone on here will tell you how difficult it is to make money in farming. If you have to pay someone to do a lot of the work for you, it'll be even harder again.

    I would agree with most of the posters above. Talk to a good solicitor and get the farm leased out. It will mean the land is still there for the young fella when he gets older. It also means you can get a bit of extra stress free income. It is also worth noting that the income you get from leasing land is tax free. I am not sure of the exact in's and outs of it but you will see more here...http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/leasing-farm-land.html

    If you wanted to keep a small bit going just to have it for the youngfella, you could possibly hold onto 4 or 5 acres close to the house and maybe keep a few cattle in it. No pressure and no stress.

    Whatever you do, best of luck and take care


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    So sorry Bili to hear of what you are going through.
    Talk to your husband. What are your wishes, and his wishes?

    Share farming with a contractor might be an option for the tillage land, they supply the labour and machinery, you supply the land and perhaps go halves on the inputs and crops.

    Long term lease and tax free I think is dependent on the age of the person leasing the land, but is a good option to look at.

    It would be 'nice' to keep on the sheep, but there is a fair bit of work involved, only do it if you actually like them, perhaps try it for one year and see how it goes. If there are a few hundred ewes, and good facilities, it might be worthwhile getting someone in for lambing.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 Bili


    Thanks to everyone for all their advice last year. Not long afterwards my husband went down hill quickly and died. I've taken six months off work to get my head and life together and am (hopefully) nearing the end of a lot of paperwork. The heartache will take much, much longer. Having weighed up all the options most of you seem to be right about leasing - it'll give me financial security without the headaches of farm regulations. And when the ten year lease is up my little fella can decide himself what way to go forward.

    I have decided to rent it to a local farmer who we've dealt with before and is honest enough. My solicitor is using a standard lease agreement and I'm insisting that the lad gets his own solicitor to look over it before signing (he thinks that it's not necessary). I'm worried though that ten years is a long time and I want to deal with any potential problems at the very beginning - even though he's a nice guy I hate conflict and would have sleepless nights over possibly having to confront him over something that was bothering me.

    I've highlighted the areas in the lease that are important to me (like fixing broken fences, no shooting etc), but would anyone have any ideas what potential conflicts might arise over ten years?

    Also, how often should I have a rent review. I am thinking in 3 years when the entitlements are up is a good time or would yearly be better?

    Thanks again,
    Bili


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Bili wrote: »
    Thanks to everyone for all their advice last year. Not long afterwards my husband went down hill quickly and died. I've taken six months off work to get my head and life together and am (hopefully) nearing the end of a lot of paperwork. The heartache will take much, much longer. Having weighed up all the options most of you seem to be right about leasing - it'll give me financial security without the headaches of farm regulations. And when the ten year lease is up my little fella can decide himself what way to go forward.

    I have decided to rent it to a local farmer who we've dealt with before and is honest enough. My solicitor is using a standard lease agreement and I'm insisting that the lad gets his own solicitor to look over it before signing (he thinks that it's not necessary). I'm worried though that ten years is a long time and I want to deal with any potential problems at the very beginning - even though he's a nice guy I hate conflict and would have sleepless nights over possibly having to confront him over something that was bothering me.

    I've highlighted the areas in the lease that are important to me (like fixing broken fences, no shooting etc), but would anyone have any ideas what potential conflicts might arise over ten years?

    Also, how often should I have a rent review. I am thinking in 3 years when the entitlements are up is a good time or would yearly be better?

    Thanks again,
    Bili
    Get soil tests done now, year 5 and from year 7 on any decreases in quality should be rectified by the farmer as its his practices not spreading enough fert/lime to be maaintained or improved as they are now otherwise mandatory increases in rent to off-set costs after lease ends.
    Get a sepperate water and electricity meter installed for him if house/farm are joined up.
    Things like keeping exisitng sheds/yard in good condition/painted etc if he uses them.
    No sawing up every twig of timber on the land etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 Bili


    That's a good idea re soil samples.

    Is it overkill to take photos off all the fencing/gates/sheds/pillars etc and having them included in the lease - I expect some changes over a decade but I'm thinking that at least I can show that this is how I want to get the farm back in 10 year and otherwise leave him alone to farm it whatever way he wants?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Welcome back, it's been a tough few months for you and your son. It's probably going to be your first christmas without your husband too.

    Fencing maintenance and public liability are two things that might become an issue. I reckon review the rent after 5 years. I know some people who review it every year, but it's a long term lease, and it's tied into milk price the previous year, not very relevant in your case with sheep and tillage I know, but this way both benefit when prices are good and both share the pain when prices drop.

    That's a good point that waffletraktor brought up about soil fertility, but soil samples can be easily manipulated by spreading a bag of 0-7-30 and sampling shortly after. I reckon do them now, and again before you do a rent review

    Best of luck.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    You mention a rent review in three years, "when the entitlements are up".
    I would advise you talk to a good Ag.Adviser to clarify the entitlements position, and to ensure that the lease specifically ensures that you retain possession of the entitlements attaching to the land at the moment.
    Make clear in the lease that the farmer leasing the land is also leasing the entitlements, and the lease should also make clear that payment arising from them is to be paid over to you in full as soon as the payment arrives from the Dept., independently to rent monies due.

    It should be stipulated that if the farmer fails in some aspect of pollution control, animal tagging, record keeping etc, actions which could lead to no Single Farm Payment issuing, he is still liable to pay you.

    Also, if there is a separate lane way to the yard/farm, the lease should make clear that this is the lane to be used, not any private lane passing your own dwelling house.

    If possible, it might be worth making mention of what arrangements would be allowed if the farmer has stock men/women or students staying in the farm yard overnight during lambing time.
    Now is the time to draw up boundaries (behavioral) to avoid any misunderstandings in the future. I am thinking of the practice of sticking a mobile home in the corner of a yard for students etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Billi, so sorry to hear of your loss. Taking care of yourself is now the most important. I would hope if my wife ended up in the same situation that she would not be taken advantage of and I sincerely hope that this farmer is genuine.

    Two things I cannot agree enough with are the soil indices. If these drop it will cost thousands to replenish them.
    Also getting the advice of a good agricultural advisor to ensure that you have as much protection as possible regarding the right to these. If your son does decide to go farming in years to come these will be essential to make the farm viable.
    Best of luck Billi and I hope your troubles are behind you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    You mention a rent review in three years, "when the entitlements are up".
    I would advise you talk to a good Ag.Adviser to clarify the entitlements position, and to ensure that the lease specifically ensures that you retain possession of the entitlements attaching to the land at the moment.
    Make clear in the lease that the farmer leasing the land is also leasing the entitlements, and the lease should also make clear that payment arising from them is to be paid over to you in full as soon as the payment arrives from the Dept., independently to rent monies due

    In relation to entitlements they can be leased out separate to the land. I think the going rate is approximately 2/3 of the value including greening. I leased some this year in May and paid the money up front and whatever I getfrom the department is mine. The entitlements revert to the owner at the end of the year. The owner is some guy who went to the auctioneer I went to but I don't know him and never dealt directly with him.
    What you seem to be suggesting is effectively that whoever is leasing the land draws down the entitlements for the land owner. I think I'd prefer to lease the land without entitlements and get some somewhere else that I could keep a third for my trouble.
    I think the best thing to do is to lease the entitlements separate to the land at the going rate on a yearly basis but maybe give the guy leasing the land the first option. This should be simpler and the op will get a definite amount in May and not be wondering did the department pay your man yet and then what if he'd penalties or when the payment comes it's slightly less due to levelling etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭DMAXMAN


    so sorry for your loss. your solicitor should be able to have the lease good and watertight for you, you and your son are his clients and his duty is to protect your interest regardless of how decent your client is. there is always people in the locality who will help or advise you and expect nothing for it only to help. again deepest sympathies and hopefully easier times ahead for you both. also this place is very good for advice of all sorts so please feel free to come back and ask if you need any advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 Bili


    DMAXMAN you are right, the farming and forestry forum really is a great place for advice. I've learned tons from reading old posts.

    My plan is to lease the land (minus one field) to the farmer with the entitlements. I'm looking for an amount per acre paid into the bank every month with the BPS paid to me when it comes through in Oct/Nov. He would rather not take the entitlements but my thinking is that then he has an onus on keeping up with the regulations and paperwork because he'll be the one who is fined. I have a fear that otherwise everything will be grand for two or so years but he might get lax after that and then I'd have to be on his back to keep the farm up to scratch.

    I've yet to put this to my husband's farm advisor (still not sure if I can split the entitlements and take one field out) - so just putting out ideas so very grateful for the advice.

    Are soil samples taken for tillage or just for grazing land (sorry if you've just hung your head at my complete lack of knowledge!!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Bili wrote: »
    DMAXMAN you are right, the farming and forestry forum really is a great place for advice. I've learned tons from reading old posts.

    My plan is to lease the land (minus one field) to the farmer with the entitlements. I'm looking for an amount per acre paid into the bank every month with the BPS paid to me when it comes through in Oct/Nov. He would rather not take the entitlements but my thinking is that then he has an onus on keeping up with the regulations and paperwork because he'll be the one who is fined. I have a fear that otherwise everything will be grand for two or so years but he might get lax after that and then I'd have to be on his back to keep the farm up to scratch.

    I've yet to put this to my husband's farm advisor (still not sure if I can split the entitlements and take one field out) - so just putting out ideas so very grateful for the advice.

    Are soil samples taken for tillage or just for grazing land (sorry if you've just hung your head at my complete lack of knowledge!!)

    Hi Bili,

    So sorry to hear about your loss, my heart breaks for you and your son. But you will get through this...

    I wouldn't know a massive amount on letting, but we I do have some of our place let - and I'll tell you what we do...

    Rent is paid here twice yearly. I think the standard is either twice a year or once a year. I don't think paying every month is usual. I would say if you want to split it into a monthly thing, use a holding account and then a standing order into your normal day-to-day account.

    I see what you mean about the entitlements, but I am not sure entitlements will keep a lad totally honest if you know what I mean. A lad renting place could be 100% complient with the dept regs, but you might be not be happy - in this case them having the entitlements might not help you...
    just be aware them having the entitlements isn't a guaranteed way of making sure they keep your place in good order...

    Also in our lease is some fields can only be used for certain activities (no big bales in field around house as it's steep) I would chat with the man interested to see what his plans for the place are - tillage? Cattle? Sheep?

    I would say whatever else you do, make sure you happy with the guy taking it.

    As DXman said above, post away in here, there are some smart guys n gals here. And tis a helpful place to vent too at times...;)

    The very best of luck Bili...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭DMAXMAN


    soil samples can be taken from any field for any crop, growing top yields of grass takes as much management a growing a good crop of grain or maize or beet or anything else


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Very sorry to hear of your loss Billi and my sincere condolences to you and your family

    On the farm I think you are definately doing the right thing by leasing it. Tax free income whilst still owning the land will be extremely beneficial to you in the years ahead.

    Just a couple of things on leasing which are purely my opinion on leasing in general and not directed at you or your case specifically

    Firstly Land owners are getting well paid by the leasor to use the land, that means that he takes a lot of control from you with regards to the land, you need to accept that. So often I see fellas receiving top dollar for land and then trying to dictate to the farmer about every single thing they do on the place

    Secondly, you need to allow for reasonable wear and tear on the place. After all 10 years is a long time and things get older in that time. You need to be reasonable as to what you expect the place to look like in 10 years. Have it in the lease to avoid disappointment on both sides

    Thirdly on the soil testing, I believe if you are going to do it, do it at the start and in the last year. No need to do it at any stage in between. If farmer is running it to the ground then it's him that's paying for it through reduced productivity, and quite frankly that's his business not the landowners. As long as he leaves it as he got it should be fine

    Just my thoughts on leases in general.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Getting the tax side of it right is far far far more important than any of tHe other things mentioned here

    make sure that the SFP is paid to you in such a way as it makes up part of the tax free income from the lease. Unless you have a very large amount of land to lease which would take you over the tax free threshold which I think is 40k per annum for 15 year leases and 30 for leases of 10-15 years

    The tax free system is there so make sure you find out exactly what you can avail of


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Panch18 wrote: »
    Getting the tax side of it right is far far far more important than any of tHe other things mentioned here

    make sure that the SFP is paid to you in such a way as it makes up part of the tax free income from the lease. Unless you have a very large amount of land to lease which would take you over the tax free threshold which I think is 40k per annum for 15 year leases and 30 for leases of 10-15 years

    The tax free system is there so make sure you find out exactly what you can avail of

    I think the revenue distinguish between rental income from land (which is tax free) and rental income from entitlements (which isn't)

    But not 100% on this - something worth checking for definite...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    Billi,
    My deepest sympathies to you and your son.

    You are such a strong person and someone to admire.

    A good solicitor and ag advisor with experience here will help you with the lease.

    I know very little to comment there.

    You've been dealt a poor hand and its not fair but your strength is inspiring and I wish you the best of luck with everything.


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