Smith machine bench press for explosive power

thegreatiam

So a friend on face book posted a video of him benching in the smith machine but using it to throw and catch the weight at the top of the lift.

He posted with the comment 'for explosive power, and experienced lifters only'

I can't help but think it's not doing what he thinks it's doing and it will do more harm than good.

Am I thinking it through correctly. I it's just going to injure his joints. If he wanted real explosive power he would be better with a different exercise, and if so which?

Also he is using a light weight, only 1 plate each side, and he claims to bench 140kg.

I'm thinking going with pause benching at a higher % of 1rm

Caliden

Bench set up with bands

Alf Veedersane

There's an obvious benefit to accelerating through the movement - e.g. recruiting more muscle fibres - but I'd have said there are better (and safer) ways of doing it than on a smith machine.

Explosive pushups would probably be as effective.

COH

Med ball throws

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There's an obvious benefit to accelerating through the movement - e.g. recruiting more muscle fibres - but I'd have said there are better (and safer) ways of doing it than on a smith machine.

Explosive pushups would probably be as effective.

OK. Makes sense. But what, if anything, makes the push up safer than the smith machine?
Or is my thinking incorrect and the smith isn't as bad as I assume?

The weight can't drop. All he can do is not catch it. But he can do the same with an explosive push up or med ball. It's the same stress on the joints. More so as he weighs about 180lbs and the smith is about 120lbs I think. Is there anything that make the smith worse than the alternative? Or is it simply not the best choice?

Bar path maybe? Arms are moving more naturally with the push up and med ball

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

OK. Makes sense. But what, if anything, makes the push up safer than the smith machine?
Or is my thinking incorrect and the smith isn't as bad as I assume?

The weight can't drop. All he can do is not catch it. But he can do the same with an explosive push up or med ball. It's the same stress on the joints. More so as he weighs about 180lbs and the smith is about 120lbs I think. Is there anything that make the smith worse than the alternative? Or is it simply not the best choice?

Bar path maybe? Arms are moving more naturally with the push up and med ball

If he fudges the catch of the bar, there's likely to be more damage than if he fudges the 'landing' in a push up. It's just a lot more risk without a concomitant reward

He won't be taking his full weight in a push up either. You'd be looking at something like 60%.

The bigger issue with the injury is being set up incorrectly in the first place rather than additional stress of absorbing the force when you 'land'.

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If he fudges the catch of the bar, there's likely to be more damage than if he fudges the 'landing' in a push up. It's just a lot more risk without a concomitant reward

He won't be taking his full weight in a push up either. You'd be looking at something like 60%.

The bigger issue with the injury is being set up incorrectly in the first place rather than additional stress of absorbing the force when you 'land'.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm against the smith, so I'm not arguing with you.

but wouldn't the danger of a miss also be present in a banded bench press? Obviously he's not throwing that lift, so it's probably less chance to fudge and get a face full of barbell but there is still a risk.

I guess it would be about managing risk, the smith initially appears to be a safe place to do this kind of explosive training, but I'm certain that there are better options. I'm just not sure why I think that.

I think my dislike of this exercise is probably stemming from the fact that I think he's doing it because he thinks it's cool, but hasn't actually applied any thought into if it is beneficial or if it is the most efficient choice.

Something about it just seems wrong to me, so i'm trying to figure out why.

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

Don't get me wrong here, I'm against the smith, so I'm not arguing with you.

but wouldn't the danger of a miss also be present in a banded bench press? Obviously he's not throwing that lift, so it's probably less chance to fudge and get a face full of barbell but there is still a risk.

I guess it would be about managing risk, the smith initially appears to be a safe place to do this kind of explosive training, but I'm certain that there are better options. I'm just not sure why I think that.

I think my dislike of this exercise is probably stemming from the fact that I think he's doing it because he thinks it's cool, but hasn't actually applied any thought into if it is beneficial or if it is the most efficient choice.

Something about it just seems wrong to me, so i'm trying to figure out why.

There's no more risk with missing a banded bench press than a normal one. You have the bar in your hands. If you miss, a spotter is there.

If there's a spotter there throwing the bar on the bench, it's much less likely that they'll 1) be in a position to catch if you let it slip or 2) react in time.

It's not that it wouldn't necessarily be effective, assuming the bar could move freely or the j-hooks didn't mess it up. But why do something that's that risky when you could do something as effective with much less risk?

COH

The turn around in an 'explosive' push-up is too slow to really consider it a great tool for developing power. How do you measure if it has any effect? The mechanics are also far more likely to degrade under fatigue.

I mentioned med ball throws because there is zero deceleration - and the risk of bursting ones face open is quite low. Its also a measureable quality, distance, weight of the ball etc is quite easy to track and progressions/regression is pretty straight forward.

I personally love using accommodating resistance (bands/chains) in my training - the main problem I see is that the vast majority of people who try to implement them get the loading parameters completely wrong, almost always go FAR too heavy, have the set up for the bands/chains wrong, and use different technique with the added tension then they would without and end up with very little transfer of training effect, no real way of quantifying the progress (if any) and vastly increase the possibility of injury as a result of ****ty mechanics.

Same goes with the smith machine - how do you measure actual training efficiency? Is there someone there measuring bar height for you? Have you got 2k to spend on a tendo unit? How much weight should one use? Is the bar trajectory going to add or detract from the rest of the training?

thegreatiam

so the only detriment to the smith is it's harder to quantify the work?
physically there is nothing more detrimental doing this on a smith or using a ball or banded bench.
should you lack the equipment the smith is a valid choice for explosive movements?

Mellor

thegreatiam wrote: »

should you lack the equipment the smith is a valid choice for explosive movements?

It's a valid choice, in that it allows you to launch the load explosively. But it's just not a very smart one for the safety and quantifying reasons posted above.

Hanley

thegreatiam wrote: »

so the only detriment to the smith is it's harder to quantify the work?
physically there is nothing more detrimental doing this on a smith or using a ball or banded bench.
should you lack the equipment the smith is a valid choice for explosive movements?

No.

It's more dangerous.

The mechanics are different.

And you'd be doing well not to have some form of deceleration.

COHs post was really quite comprehensive.