Why do americans love veterans?

jjbrien

I want to know this from an Irish point of view since most of us here are from Ireland. At home we dont glorify the army, navy or air core. My grandfather was in the air core and nobody gave him glory nor did he seek it. But here in the states they all go thank you for your service etc. It all seems like lip service from what I seen. I seen many homeless veterans. I think instead of thanking them maybe they should mean it and look after them and never allow them be without a roof and good medical.

But why do they go on about veterans so much?

JohnMearsheimer

They have the VA to look after the veterans. The VA looks after medical care, helps secure loans for housing, pays for college/university education etc.

InTheTrees

jjbrien wrote: »

But why do they go on about veterans so much?

Because apart from short gaps they've been at war for a lot of the last century.

jjbrien

InTheTrees wrote: »

Because apart from short gaps they've been at war for a lot of the last century.

True i guess. I just dont get the yanks at times. Was in a bar at the weekend and there was two navy dudes from the local navy base someone came up to them to buy them a drink to thank them for their service.

I grew up in Mullingar and nobody there would ever buy a solider a drink for being in the army.

InTheTrees

jjbrien wrote: »

True i guess. I just dont get the yanks at times. Was in a bar at the weekend and there was two navy dudes from the local navy base someone came up to them to buy them a drink to thank them for their service.

Well its Veterans Day today so they're certainly at their most patriotic.

Watch Saving Private Ryan.

It'll give you idea of what the fuss is about.

InTheTrees

jjbrien wrote: »

I want to know this from an Irish point of view since most of us here are from Ireland. At home we dont glorify the army, navy or air core.

I think next year in Ireland you'll see some glorification of Irishmen who fought for their country.

ProudDUB

Why do Americans love/glorify Veterans? As if to imply that other countries don't? Jesus, does the OP never watch the BBC? Wall to wall, non stop historical documentaries, on everything from the Battle of Agincourt, to the Charge of The Light Brigade, to the Somme, to D-Day. No one can appear on any telly show from Graham Norton to Match Of The Day - even if they have zero connection to The Glorious Dead - unless they are wearing the mandatory bloody poppy.

I lived in the US for nearly 20 years. While Memorial Day & Veterans Day are always observed. They are just that....one day. No one is frogmarched by the culture police into having anything whatsoever to do with honouring veterans, unless they actually want to. That is very, very far from being the case with the UK imo.

Uno my Uno.

ProudDUB wrote: »

Why do Americans love/glorify Veterans? As if to imply that other countries don't? Jesus, does the OP never watch the BBC? Wall to wall, non stop historical documentaries, on everything from the Battle of Agincourt, to the Charge of The Light Brigade, to the Somme, to D-Day. No one can appear on any telly show from Graham Norton to Match Of The Day - even if they have zero connection to The Glorious Dead - unless they are wearing the mandatory bloody poppy.

I lived in the US for nearly 20 years. While Memorial Day & Veterans Day are always observed. They are just that....one day. No one is frogmarched by the culture police into having anything whatsoever to do with honouring veterans, unless they actually want to. That is very, very far from being the case with the UK imo.

You must have had your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears for most of those 20 years. Almost every sports event here in the US, including many highschool football games to the World series starts with the singing of the national anthem and the "presentation of our national colours", by a military band in full regalia. Last Sunday every NFL team wore strips adapted to feature camouflage. Military fly bys are not uncommon at big events.

All year round people will thank military personal for their service, service people travelling in uniform get preferential treatment at airports, (much) cheaper car insurance and major benefits from their GI Bills, High profile recruitment drives happen throughout the year. I try not to be judgmental about it but it's totally alien to me. It's not ok to not support the troops. This year saw the introduction of the camo ribbon, the poppy doesn't seem so bad now does it?

During my two years living in the UK I saw the contemporary Military on TV twice a year, the queen's birthday and remberamce day. I was never asked to thank a squadie and the only RAF fly by was by the red arrows. Britain has a long military history and they are proud of it but it is rarely a matter of public consciousness in the way it is in the US.

THe best way I can describe the difference is this;

Rememberence Day = We will never allow this to happen again

Veterans Day = Join the Army!

endacl

Air Core? Like, the middle bit of the air that nobody eats?

iusedtoknow

as with most things in the US, it is very commercialized. At most sports games, the army/navy pay for spots "honoring" the troops.

Veterans day is no worse than armistice day in the commonweath. Personally, I can't stand it, and cringe whenever I hear people "thanking" soldiers, police, fireman etc for their "service". But you just learn to ignore it.

whitey1

jjbrien wrote: »

True i guess. I just dont get the yanks at times. Was in a bar at the weekend and there was two navy dudes from the local navy base someone came up to them to buy them a drink to thank them for their service.

I grew up in Mullingar and nobody there would ever buy a solider a drink for being in the army.

Maybe because in the US they actually get deployed to war zones and get paid feck all for putting their lives in danger.


Read Band of Brothers or the Greatest Generation and hopefully youll understand it a little better

ceadaoin.

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

You must have had your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears for most of those 20 years. Almost every sports event here in the US, including many highschool football games to the World series starts with the singing of the national anthem and the "presentation of our national colours", by a military band in full regalia. Last Sunday every NFL team wore strips adapted to feature camouflage. Military fly bys are not uncommon at big events.

That's just for marketing and recruitment purposes and comes out of the defense budget. The military has paid more than $5 million to the NFL the past few years for these displays.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25181085/nfl-teams-received-54-million-from-defense-department-in-last-4-years

BoJack Horseman

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Bit of a silly comparison OP. They spend over half a trillion on military each year. The UK spend about 60 million. The US has a population of about 320 million, the UK is about 60 million. So that means that the US spends 10,000 times more on military than the UK despite only having about 5 times the population.

I suggest running the numbers again there.

jjbrien

endacl wrote: »

Air Core? Like, the middle bit of the air that nobody eats?

Never heard of the Air Corps? Baldonnell eh? I know we dont have much of an air force at home at least we have one.

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

You must have had your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears for most of those 20 years. Almost every sports event here in the US, including many highschool football games to the World series starts with the singing of the national anthem and the "presentation of our national colours", by a military band in full regalia. Last Sunday every NFL team wore strips adapted to feature camouflage. Military fly bys are not uncommon at big events.

All year round people will thank military personal for their service, service people travelling in uniform get preferential treatment at airports, (much) cheaper car insurance and major benefits from their GI Bills, High profile recruitment drives happen throughout the year. I try not to be judgmental about it but it's totally alien to me. It's not ok to not support the troops. This year saw the introduction of the camo ribbon, the poppy doesn't seem so bad now does it?

During my two years living in the UK I saw the contemporary Military on TV twice a year, the queen's birthday and remberamce day. I was never asked to thank a squadie and the only RAF fly by was by the red arrows. Britain has a long military history and they are proud of it but it is rarely a matter of public consciousness in the way it is in the US.

THe best way I can describe the difference is this;

Rememberence Day = We will never allow this to happen again

Veterans Day = Join the Army!

Totally agree I lived in Liverpool for 4 years ok they wear poppies, but you wont see people there buying soldiers pints or giving them cheap car insurance. You never see them presenting the colors in Anfield. I guess its another thing ill have to ignore. I lived in Canada for nearly 2 years they dont go overboard the way the Americans do. I guess its just another odd american thing. Some poster said earlier that all the veterans are looked after I have seen many homeless ones begging in NJ, NY, Minnesota and California so they arnt really looked after. If an irish service man or woman got injured at home I know they get looked after even if it wasn't honorable.

FloatingVoter

jjbrien wrote: »

Never heard of the Air Corps? Baldonnell eh? I know we dont have much of an air force at home at least we have one.

Reread your OP. Check for typos or spelling mistakes. And to prove I'm not being anal, I actually believed that Africa Korps was pronounced "corpse" for several of my teenage years.

On the personal level, thanks to the GI bill, plenty of US families benefited from serving in the forces. From shack to army to college to middle class in one generation. So the military is a lot more integral to US life than it is here. Add in, all those army bases are like multinational firms setting up here. The amount of secondary employment created by them is colossal. I'm Bob - I own a bar and 95% of my custom is army issue. Damn straight I'll salute the main source of income the flag.

I know plenty of people who disagree with US foreign policy and can actually come up with solid reasoning to back that - they do not dispute the bravery or disrespect the men and women who wear the uniform.

iusedtoknow

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I know plenty of people who disagree with US foreign policy and can actually come up with solid reasoning to back that - they do not dispute the bravery or disrespect the men and women who wear the uniform.

I do, and frankly, while I don't disrespect them, then I don't respect them either. They are paid to wear the uniform, they get benefits - sometimes they are doing it just as there no other way out of crappy life situations (particularly the enlisted ranks). They are paid to kill whoever their commanders tell them.

I also know a soldier personally that refuses to tell people that he is in the military service , not because he is embarrassed about it, but because he hates being "thanked for his service". He recognizes it as a job...one that has provided well for him and his family. He just says he's a civil servant.

jjbrien

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Reread your OP. Check for typos or spelling mistakes. And to prove I'm not being anal, I actually believed that Africa Korps was pronounced "corpse" for several of my teenage years.

Thank you very much for showing up my disability. I have reported your post

silja

**** Folks, people make spelling mistakes because they are on phones or other reasons. Let's get back to discussing the actual question in the OP. ****

FloatingVoter

Corps=core=lame apple joke=me sticking my oar in=my getting reported. I'm sorry, boss.

Lads (for I know lads when I'm among 'em) , some of you should join the army. An army. Any bloody army once its deployed overseas.

endacl

jjbrien wrote: »

Thank you very much for showing up my disability. I have reported your post

He didn't. I did.

mulbot

It's because they are led to believe through tons of propaganda that the military is necessary, has kept the ordinary person"safe" and it protects their "freedom". Oh the irony

simdan

mulbot wrote:

It's because they are led to believe through tons of propaganda that the military is necessary, has kept the ordinary person"safe" and it protects their "freedom". Oh the irony

Exactly. Pumped into them from birth, it's very sad.

yew_tree

I have huge respect for anyone who serves in the military. Of course there are bad eggs like in every walk of life. For the most part I have found service men and women to be very respectful and dignified. A few of the scumbag youth's rampaging through Dublin and other Irish cities could do with a stink in the army and learn some respect. (A little off topic I know but rant over).

helimachoptor

especially since 9/11, you knew you werent signing up to sit in a barracks all day.

I give credit to those who signed up after seeing their country men come home with arms/legs missing

Uno my Uno.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

That's just for marketing and recruitment purposes and comes out of the defense budget. The military has paid more than $5 million to the NFL the past few years for these displays.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25181085/nfl-teams-received-54-million-from-defense-department-in-last-4-years

I would suggest that for the exposure the have received 5 million was the deal of the century. It doesn't really matter if it's paid for or not, the point is it happens, no one here is aware it is paid for and the all rand, take off their hats and cheer.

RedemptionZ

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I suggest running the numbers again there.

I feel silly now. Me and big numbers just don't go together.

Taxburden carrier

If you've been to any city in the States you'll know that there are loads of homeless veterans, many of them with mental health issues , on the streets. Whereas the perception the U.S. wants to present is " we love our veterans", the reality on the ground is often different.

TeaBagMania

jjbrien wrote: »

I have seen many homeless ones begging in NJ, NY, Minnesota and California so they arnt really looked after.

Because it’s totally improbable for someone that has never served in the military to write “Homeless Veteran” on a cardboard sign playing the sympathy card for money.
The programs are out there for any veteran looking to better their life. They are shoe in at the post office, and then there are some that just don’t want the help and would rather lead the homeless lifestyle

Taxburden carrier

TeaBagMania wrote: »

Because it’s totally improbable for someone that has never served in the military to write “Homeless Veteran” on a cardboard sign playing the sympathy card for money.
The programs are out there for any veteran looking to better their life. They are shoe in at the post office, and then there are some that just don’t want the help and would rather lead the homeless lifestyle

Assuming of course that mentally, they are in a fit state to reach out for such help.

iusedtoknow

Taxburden carrier wrote: »

Assuming of course that mentally, they are in a fit state to reach out for such help.

agreed. My neighbor is an ex-marine. Proud of his service, but suffers from agoraphobia and depression. If it wasn't for his very capable partner, he would be on the street very quickly.

emigrate2012

Nothing wrong with being proud of your military, (though the yanks are a bit extreme)

What annoys me about it is, since the Korean war, anyother they've stuck their oars into/started aren't justifiable or legal.
Sure venerate your veterans of the wars that were absolutely necessary for America to get involved with (ww1,ww2 and at a stretch Korea) but imo all that followed they should never have gotten involved with.

Look at mess they've made in Afghanistan and Iraq, funding the mujahadeen against the Soviets in the late 70's early 80's led to the eventual rise of the tali ban and indirectly to is is. They and the UK lied through their teeth to start an illegal war in Iraq. It the veterans of these wars I think don't deserve the plaudits so deserved of ww2 vets.

Eisenhower in his farewell speech, warned of the rise and dangers of the military industrial complex. This near constant state of war/battle readiness is the result. Can't have all them toys and nowhere to play with them!

jman0war

Some of the "patriotism" you see on TV is bought and paid for.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25181085/nfl-teams-received-54-million-from-defense-department-in-last-4-years

spideog7

I agree that it is odd and can be very tiresome, especially if you don't agree with the excessive foreign interventionism and disproportionate spending of the taxpayer's dollars on the military.

My conclusion is that it's a lack of a cohesive culture to rally around as an alternative source of patriotism that leaves the American people together with nothing left to worship but the military. War has been a defining feature of the USA since it's foundation, every generation since the colonial wars has endured some protracted conflict. It's one of the few aspects of their culture that isn't regional.

That and the PR.

jjbrien

For the record I wasn't disrespecting any veteran or current service man. My wife's Father fought in Vietnam and her grandfather is a medal of valor winner for his service in WW2. I agree that since Korea many of the wars the US has been in have not been very lawful. I started this thread to expand my understanding of why the American's act the way they do towards them, not to knock anyone. Its good to see it from Irish expats who have been here longer than me. I do stand up at salute the flag at Citi field or where ever im required to do so out of respect and I think America is a great country and Ireland wouldn't have been able to stand out from under the UK's skirt without it or the EU.

I was shocked to see the US Government was paying the MLB, NHL etc for patriotism to be shown on TV. One of the world series games at Citi Field this year was one of them events that they paid for, I dont think that money should have being paid it should have went were its needed to help veterans and their family's.

To me I guess what I think is what I believe a lot of what America always does when it comes to everything "we do it better in America". So they over do the worship of Veterans, just like they over do most things. Its still a great county just the yanks love to go overboard on everything.

Clampdown

spideog7 wrote: »

I agree that it is odd and can be very tiresome, especially if you don't agree with the excessive foreign interventionism and disproportionate spending of the taxpayer's dollars on the military.

My conclusion is that it's a lack of a cohesive culture to rally around as an alternative source of patriotism that leaves the American people together with nothing left to worship but the military. War has been a defining feature of the USA since it's foundation, every generation since the colonial wars has endured some protracted conflict. It's one of the few aspects of their culture that isn't regional.

That and the PR.

As someone Irish born who grew up in the States I feel this is quite accurate.

I don't agree with most of the recent military action or any wars really but their accomplishments in the 2 WWs are amazing. People there get brainwashed into it to a certain degree, but they also feel that their high quality of life is indebted to the strength of the military, and perhaps that is true in part. Also for many young lads from lower socioeconomic backgrounds it is the only way they can afford college without massive debt.

People in Ireland love to rag on the yanks. Part of it is most of the ones that can afford to visit here are the corny tourist types, so that's understandable, I find them funnyntoo. But part of it is just jealousy. Most of the music, films, fashion, pop culture etc consumed here is from the US. I've even heard people say the Yanks don't have a sense of humor when pretty much every comedy film they quote is American.

A lot of veterans, especially from Nam, end up with mental issues and addictions. The US should be doing more to help those men for sure. And the war on terror was ugly, and still is. But most other countries, if they had that amount of military might, would likely abuse it even worse.

mulbot

Clampdown wrote: »

As someone Irish born who grew up in the States I feel this is quite accurate.

I don't agree with most of the recent military action or any wars really but their accomplishments in the 2 WWs are amazing. People there get brainwashed into it to a certain degree, but they also feel that their high quality of life is indebted to the strength of the military, and perhaps that is true in part. Also for many young lads from lower socioeconomic backgrounds it is the only way they can afford college without massive debt.

People in Ireland love to rag on the yanks. Part of it is most of the ones that can afford to visit here are the corny tourist types, so that's understandable, I find them funnyntoo. But part of it is just jealousy. Most of the music, films, fashion, pop culture etc consumed here is from the US. I've even heard people say the Yanks don't have a sense of humor when pretty much every comedy film they quote is American.

A lot of veterans, especially from Nam, end up with mental issues and addictions. The US should be doing more to help those men for sure. And the war on terror was ugly, and still is. But most other countries, if they had that amount of military might, would likely abuse it even worse.

Actually i find the tourists that come here very pleasant and friendly-it's my experience from being over there that you see the "real" americans,the people that are essentially what this thread is about.

You might have been born here,but your statement about it being jealousy shows you have the same "self-inflated" ego as a lot of americans do,. You will find also that most American comedys shown here are actually a pi*s take on americans, e.g family guy, etc,etc

Wompa1

Clampdown wrote: »

As someone Irish born who grew up in the States I feel this is quite accurate.

I don't agree with most of the recent military action or any wars really but their accomplishments in the 2 WWs are amazing. People there get brainwashed into it to a certain degree, but they also feel that their high quality of life is indebted to the strength of the military, and perhaps that is true in part. Also for many young lads from lower socioeconomic backgrounds it is the only way they can afford college without massive debt.

People in Ireland love to rag on the yanks. Part of it is most of the ones that can afford to visit here are the corny tourist types, so that's understandable, I find them funnyntoo. But part of it is just jealousy. Most of the music, films, fashion, pop culture etc consumed here is from the US. I've even heard people say the Yanks don't have a sense of humor when pretty much every comedy film they quote is American.

A lot of veterans, especially from Nam, end up with mental issues and addictions. The US should be doing more to help those men for sure. And the war on terror was ugly, and still is. But most other countries, if they had that amount of military might, would likely abuse it even worse.

American born , lived in Ireland for 26 years and been living in America for the last 4 years. While I'm sure some Irish people may be jealous...I don't think that's too true any more. America is no longer seen as some mystical land with the best of everything. America = Pop culture for sure...but how many people with a brain in their head that would voice an opinion are enamored with pop culture these days?

American music right now in most part is recycled Pop garbage, American TV was terrible for years until AMC and Netflix kicked things back into gear, American movies have been awful for a long time...in fact, it's all irrelevant because Irish people can get all of that the very next day now. In fact most big budget American movies are being released there first now....I think it's just so they can focus their time promoting more heavily in the US on the tail end of the media tours.

The reason that I can see for the Veteran love is due to propaganda. I think the powers that be have done a great job since the end of the Vietnam war to start spinning things round. It's amazing that this country went from a time of such social unrest and sense of people power to what it is today. You'll still hear people speaking about how returning soldiers were spit on. It was made very clear that even if you don't support the war in Iraq, you must support the Troops.

It's actually pretty brilliant. It prevents any real dialog about things. It ensures the US Government can continue to swing it's d1ck and the American public will still raw-raw all the way home. I live in Phoenix. A gentleman died while on a waiting list at a VA...before that happened, every story would end up in a "what about the veteran?" question...even unrelated sh1t...like funding for education. Well what about taking care of our veterans? Since that guy died, it's cranked up 10 fold. It's so ridiculous.

This country is now in a situation in which there's no draft but there's something possibly more evil. You want a private pension?...no private employers will give them. You need a state job or to join the forces. You want an affordable education? Get a scholarship or join the forces...I could go on but I've voice my opinion about this topic enough on here.

P.S. The NFL was charging the Army for highlighting soldiers at the games....it's clearly propaganda. They aren't even good at hiding it any more

looksee

One of the odder aspects of this affection for the troops is the baskets in supermarkets where you are invited to contribute sweets, not sure how this works in reality!

Wompa1

looksee wrote: »

One of the odder aspects of this affection for the troops is the baskets in supermarkets where you are invited to contribute sweets, not sure how this works in reality!

Most of the airports have them. At one point, I bought into all of this crap in a round about way. I didn't get the raw-raw-raw crap but I just thought. Well those guys are a victim of circumstances. They are stuck in this country where an education costs a fortune...a lot of them don't even want to be in the forces they just feel they have to. In the airport in Charlotte, I told the lady I'd buy the most expensive thing in the basket.

Which was a set of over ear headphones which would be sent to a soldier...

A few years later. I think that kind of support is just hurting the country in the long run. I don't hate the troops. Many are just victims of circumstance but I won't actively go out of my way to show support.

yew_tree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zqOYBabXmA - worth a look. I think the media have much to answer for.

Wompa1

yew_tree wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zqOYBabXmA - worth a look. I think the media have much to answer for.

Local radio here talking about that clip as controversial about 3 months before the show aired....granted, that was probably what HBO thought would happen and why they used it as the teaser.

It was going great until he got all choked up and it turned all cheesy

El Burro Juicioso

We probably should be pretty thankful for the US veterans too to be honest. I mean we always complain about US military presence in countries of conflict. What we conveniently forget is their continued presence in Europe. Germany, for example, are not exactly protesting on the streets for the 40,000 US troops stationed there to get out.

This not only has obvious security benefits, but economical ones too. So keep in mind that there are insignificant German troops stationed in America. Now, Germany are the poster boys of economical success. These poster boys spend 1.2% of their GDP on military. Awesome. That's still billions of dollars.

If the US military decided "OK, Europe, time to care care of yourselves. In fact, it's your turn to bolster our security as we did for you post Cold War, so we can pump some money into our social security programs", what do you think the general consensus would be?

I'm not saying anything either way, and I know that everything is infinitely more complicated, but while Europe tries to cut military budgets... who picks up the security bill? There's not less security to be done magically. I'm not a fan of military, but these people deserve respect and to be taken care of at the very least... They certainly don't deserve the derision they are subjected to constantly. Top brass, definitely... your average serviceman? Certainly not.

iusedtoknow

El Burro Juicioso wrote: »

If the US military decided "OK, Europe, time to care care of yourselves. In fact, it's your turn to bolster our security as we did for you post Cold War, so we can pump some money into our social security programs", what do you think the general consensus would be?

I'm not saying anything either way, and I know that everything is infinitely more complicated, but while Europe tries to cut military budgets... who picks up the security bill? There's not less security to be done magically. I'm not a fan of military, but these people deserve respect and to be taken care of at the very least... They certainly don't deserve the derision they are subjected to constantly. Top brass, definitely... your average serviceman? Certainly not.

They aren't exactly doing too much at the moment to "bolster security". If there were US soldiers on the streets during terrorist issues, then that would be one thing - but the bases in germany are mostly self serving to US interests - it lets them flex their big boy muscles to the Russians without actually doing anything.

but these people deserve respect and to be taken care of at the very least... They certainly don't deserve the derision they are subjected to constantly. Top brass, definitely... your average serviceman? Certainly not

No one "deserves" respect. These men and women are being paid to do a job, and when they leave the military have substantial benefits (GI bill etc) to help them transfer into civilian life.

AryaStark

jjbrien wrote: »

True i guess. I just dont get the yanks at times. Was in a bar at the weekend and there was two navy dudes from the local navy base someone came up to them to buy them a drink to thank them for their service.

I grew up in Mullingar and nobody there would ever buy a solider a drink for being in the army.

The American army is a bit different to the Mullingar army barracks!!!!!!!!! They have been to war etc I know some of the older soldiers from the Irish army who were on peace keeping tours and they all get a lot of respect from younger people and the people of the town.

El Burro Juicioso

iusedtoknow wrote: »

They aren't exactly doing too much at the moment to "bolster security". If there were US soldiers on the streets during terrorist issues, then that would be one thing - but the bases in germany are mostly self serving to US interests - it lets them flex their big boy muscles to the Russians without actually doing anything.



No one "deserves" respect. These men and women are being paid to do a job, and when they leave the military have substantial benefits (GI bill etc) to help them transfer into civilian life.

Of course they are self serving to US interests. However, if they weren't aligned with European interests either, why aren't people on the streets protesting? They do serve a purpose and flexing their muscles, as you like to put it, does help Europeans. Ukraine was not straight up invaded by Russia. It had to hold a proxy invasion, cloak and dagger. They can't just march in there with a red star. What if there were zero US servicemen in Europe?

Ok, no one "deserves" respect. That's fine. You don't deserve respect at your job. Housewives don't deserve respect. Mothers don't deserve respect. Nobody deserve respect. You are arguing semantics. I'm saying they should no be derided as it is fashionable to do.

Neil3030

Ah you gotta love the US War Machine (tm) - "Defending your right to defend people's rights in order to secure yourself basic rights"

mulbot

El Burro Juicioso wrote: »

Of course they are self serving to US interests. However, if they weren't aligned with European interests either, why aren't people on the streets protesting? They do serve a purpose and flexing their muscles, as you like to put it, does help Europeans. Ukraine was not straight up invaded by Russia. It had to hold a proxy invasion, cloak and dagger. They can't just march in there with a red star. What if there were zero US servicemen in Europe?

Ok, no one "deserves" respect. That's fine. You don't deserve respect at your job. Housewives don't deserve respect. Mothers don't deserve respect. Nobody deserve respect. You are arguing semantics. I'm saying they should no be derided as it is fashionable to do.

I think the almost fanatical admiration the US citizens hold for their military is unnerving to be honest,but what can you expect when their media/governments are constantly bombarding them with nonsensical propaganda about how their military protects their "freedoms" etc.

What if there were none in Europe? I really don't think we would notice to be honest

Wanderer78

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ah you gotta love the US War Machine (tm) - "Defending your right to defend people's rights in order to secure yourself basic rights"

.... and in the process, helping to widen the inequality gap and basically shafting everybody including vets.

El Burro Juicioso

mulbot wrote: »

I think the almost fanatical admiration the US citizens hold for their military is unnerving to be honest,but what can you expect when their media/governments are constantly bombarding them with nonsensical propaganda about how their military protects their "freedoms" etc.

I mean, there are certainly "fanatics" for the US military in certain spheres, and it does breed a certain culture, sure. However, I don't see it really infringing on the majority day to day thinking too much. OK, they celebrate their military a couple of days a year, but that's hardly surprising given their history.

Now, the government is another issue. But, really I'm just commenting on the derision of Americans being proud of something which every European nation benefits from, but are more than happy to disparage.

El Burro Juicioso

mulbot wrote: »

What if there were none in Europe? I really don't think we would notice to be honest

I'm pretty sure we would. Just personally speaking, I feel they contribute a stabilising effect. Not to mention money generated in local economies, whether you agree with the morality of such activity or no.

But let's say they have zero positive effect... why are they still there? Is Europe such a decrepit region that we can't say "Ok thanks for everything but you gotta go since you are just costing us money, using resources, taking up space, attracting negative attention, not contributing etc etc ".

mulbot

El Burro Juicioso wrote: »

I mean, there are certainly "fanatics" for the US military in certain spheres, and it does breed a certain culture, sure. However, I don't see it really infringing on the majority day to day thinking too much. OK, they celebrate their military a couple of days a year, but that's hardly surprising given their history.

Now, the government is another issue. But, really I'm just commenting on the derision of Americans being proud of something which every European nation benefits from, but are more than happy to disparage.

How does Europe benefit from the American military? And in response to my first highlight,I've been in American a number of times,I'll tell you where you see it infringing,in the smaller country type towns,the towns you won't see on your tourist destinations-you won't see much in New York,Chicago,Boston,but when you go to "real "American towns,you will see American flags lining the streets,slogans calling for people to join the military,pictures of "uncle sam" (the one we all know) pointing the finger with the headline"your country needs you". You'll see small tin cans beside the cash registers saying"support the military". This is how the American public are brainwashed into the pro-military thinking and ,yes it does infringe on everyday life