Police want to talk to you? What do you do?

anvilfour

Some very interesting opinions being offered about the scope of Police Powers in another thread on here both in the USA and Ireland.

Unlike in the USA, in Britain and Ireland there is no enshrined right against self-incrimination. Although on the balance of probabilities you're far better off remaining silent, it can harm your defence if a matter comes to court and you rely on something you would reasonably be expected to mention.

I would be interested to hear experiences of other posters who have been invited to the Police Station "for a chat" or being questioned under interview and hear thoughts on whether it is better for your defence to remain silent (I think it is!).

My story where I didn't talk to the Police below below...

Update : For those news to the thread please also see the story about the time I did speak to the Police and had a pretty awful time of it.

darkpagandeath

Arrest and charge get out with the "Come in for a Chat."

VisibleGorilla

Here is the greatest piece of advise you can ever get in relation to the police.

- SAY NOTHING!!!!!!

Fr_Dougal

anvilfour wrote: »

Some very interesting opinions being offered about the scope of Police Powers in another thread on here both in the USA and Ireland.

Unlike in the USA, in Britain and Ireland there is no enshrined right against self-incrimination. Although on the balance of probabilities you're far better off remaining silent, it can harm your defence if a matter comes to court and you rely on something you would reasonably be expected to mention.

I would be interested to hear experiences of other posters who have been invited to the Police Station "for a chat" or being questioned under interview and hear thoughts on whether it is better for your defence to remain silent (I think it is!).

My story below...

You've omitted your story...

LeTickler

Put on a rasta accent and pretend your name is marvin the yardie. And you nah no no ting at all.

Then in court claim to have never met the officer and that this may be the result of a local man named marvin the yardie for whom you are oft mistaken.

anvilfour

One of my first dealings with the Police was around 7 years ago in the UK. I received a call at work from a very well spoken member of CID who said there's a matter he wanted to discuss with me. I had no idea what this was about and asked him why he thought this was necessary but again he said he preferred to discuss things down the station.

I was very worried and kept racking my brains for anything I had done wrong. Fortunately my old man used to be a copper so I called him and asked him what to do.

Dad told me that Police Detectives are very fond of inviting people in "for a chat" and sometimes will even make an arrest "by appointment" to catch people off guard. He said I shouldn't go but I really wanted to know what the hell this was all about!

In the end I agreed that I would call my Solicitor and he'd meet me at the station.

I am from a small place so when the interviewing officers came downstairs, they recognised my Solicitor right away and seemed a little taken aback (you wonder why they would be surprised that someone has a lawyer!).

They shook our hands and I was led down the corridor to the Interview Room. My Solicitor stopped them and asked them if he could speak to them so they could do the pre-interview disclosure. I was told to wait in one of the soft interview rooms i.e plush chair, no lock on door while they did so.

My Solicitor joined me later and said that the case was related to internet stalking. I had volunteered at a school a few weeks before as a precursor to doing a Teacher Training course and while I was there one of the students had claimed she had been contacted by me over Facebook and I had tried to lure her to my house and ply her with vodka.

The whole thing was absurd. I hadn't had any contact with the kids at the school (how could I have known their names after all?) and I do not drink so never have had any vodka in the house. I remember being very upset and angry (not with my Solicitor) but at the fact I wasn't even able to know the name of my accuser. (I was later to find out it was a girl I had never even spoken with in person, who was not even a member of the classes I taught).

I felt it was important to be as forthcoming as possible.

There was a strong defence in that firstly during the period this student claimed I had contacted her I didn't have internet access in my home and it beggared belief that someone would do this in their workplace.

Secondly she claimed that I had connected to her account and downloaded her personal pictures, which at the time at least was not possible to do if someone was not a confirmed Facebook friend.

Third, she claimed to have recognised me from a photograph on my profile but when asked to describe the photo (e.g standing up/sitting down, beard/clean shaven what I was wearing etc.) she said she didn't remember yet somehow was certain it was me.

I suggested to my Solicitor that we give the Police access to my Facebook account so they could observe that no such messages had been sent.

My Solicitor agreed with all these points but also said that there would be plenty of time to outline these facts if the matter came to court. I asked if it would harm my defence by remaining silent. He explained this was my decision but ultimately if the things I was saying in my defence could be proven to be true, it was unlikely to undermine my defence.

Conversely if I were to mount a defence I would by inference have to admit to being in the same place as this person and using a social networking account.

We went into the interview and my Solicitor (God love him) informed them that his client was remaining silent. I answered "no comment" to all questions (including some rather bizarre ones about my sexual preferences and if I was straight) and was released without charge. My Solicitor later told me that no further action could be taken.

I know in retrospect I did the right thing but my advice to anyone who thinks they have nothing to hide, is it might be best to remain silent on legal advice. There is plenty of time to mention any points in your defence when the matter comes to court!

anvilfour

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You've omitted your story...

Thanks Dougal, I have put it in a separate post!

Vic_08

RustyNut

Dont know about the UK but the Irish constitution enshrines your right not to incriminate yourself.

If you dont say anything you cant say anything wrong.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/

Bunreacht Na hEireann, (the Irish Constitution) provides protection for everyone in Ireland against self-incrimination. That is, making a statement that might now or later expose you to criminal proceedings.

byte

I'd tell them my name is Jon Snow.

Baggy Trousers

anvilfour

RustyNut wrote: »

Dont know about the UK but the Irish constitution enshrines your right not to incriminate yourself.

If you dont say anything you cant say anything wrong.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/

The right isn't absolute:

Under the Criminal Justice Act 1984 as amended by Part 4 of the Criminal Justice Act 2007 inferences can be drawn from your silence in certain circumstances in any proceedings against you for an arrestable offence. An arrestable offence is an offence for which a person can be imprisoned for 5 years or more.
Inferences can be drawn, if at anytime before being charged or when you are charged, or when informed by a Garda that you may be procecuted for the offence, you fail or refuse to account for any object, substance or mark on your person, clothing or in your possession or in any place in which you were when questioned by a Garda. Similarly inferences can be drawn if you fail or refuse to account for your presence at a particular place around the time the offence was committed. The Garda has to have a reasonable belief that the presence of the object, substance or mark, or your presence at the place, has a relevance to your involvement in the offence which has been committed.
Inferences may also be drawn if you fail to mention any fact which you then rely on in your defence during the proceedings and which, in the circumstances existing at the time, you could reasonably have been expected to mention when being questioned or charged.
It is not an offence to fail or refuse to answer such questions. However, the court or jury can take into consideration (when deciding on your guilt or innocence) the fact that you had failed or refused to answer the questions when asked by the Gardai. If there is no other evidence put to the court or jury then they cannot convict you on the failure or refusal to answer questions alone. It can only be used to strengthen other evidence presented to the court or jury in the case. It also cannot be used unless the Garda informed you in ordinary, clear, understandable, language what the effect of a failure or refusal might be and you were given a reasonable opportunity to consult a solicitor. The questioning must be recorded electronically or you must consent in writing to it not being recorded.

Source : http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/right_to_silence_in_criminal_cases.html

Nevertheless remaining silent is by far the most sensible thing to do in my ever humble opinion!

VisibleGorilla

Even if inferences are drawn it is still better to say nothing.

The Gardai can and will lie to you to get you talking, it's their job.

If anyone ever finds themselves arrested for the purpose of interview it is in their best interest to say absolutely nothing to the Gardai.

anvilfour

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

This is excellent advice Baggy, thanks!

During the heady days of my youth was when I was arrested for a so-called Public Order offence (when at a Footbal stadium I stood between one of my friends a thug who was trying to attack him).

When the interview began I started to singing 'Silence is Golden' in screeching falsetto tones. They gave up after the third rendition, put me back in the cell. One cup a soup later I was home free.

RustyNut

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Even if inferences are drawn it is still better to say nothing.

The Gardai can and will lie to you to get you talking, it's their job.

If anyone ever finds themselves arrested for the purpose of interview it is in their best interest to say absolutely nothing to the Gardai.

And If anyone is "invited" in for a chat a polite refusal is the best option.

anvilfour

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Even if inferences are drawn it is still better to say nothing.

The Gardai can and will lie to you to get you talking, it's their job.

If anyone ever finds themselves arrested for the purpose of interview it is in their best interest to say absolutely nothing to the Gardai.

Wise words VisibleGorilla. It's also important to understand there are a number of situations under which adverse inferences cannot apply e.g when the Gardai haven't made any meaningful disclosure to your Solicitor about your involvement in a crime.

The risk of talking is real and immediate. As in the case of my own story, to mount a defence I would have had to tacitly admit I was in a location where the accuser says I might have broken the law.

It's best summed by saying IF you are accused of a crime and IF you remain silent and IF the decision is made to charge you and IF the matter comes to court the jury MAY draw inferences from your silence... the risk is very small!

anvilfour

RustyNut wrote: »

And I anyone is "invited" in for a chat a polite refusal is the best option.

I agree RustyNut although in practice I think that it might be an idea to call your Solicitor and get them to contact the Police to see what this is all about. Naturally the Police are relying on your urge to satisfy your own curiosity...!

Turtyturd

Recently read Homicide: A year on the killing streets, and there are couple of pages in it that lay out how your best option is to say nothing. Also talks about the lengths Police will go to in order to get someone to talk.

anvilfour

Glad to see so many people coming down on my side of the argument.

It's not that I think that silence is always the best option but if there's something you really think needs to be mentioned, you can put it into a written statement which you can prepare in private with your Solicitor.

Your Solicitor can then read it out to the Police (or better yet in my humble opinion ) can sign, date it and put it in their briefcase so you can produce it if the matter comes to trial. That way no one can claim that you made up your defence weeks after the fact. If the statement isn't helpful to your defence or the matter never comes to trial your Solicitor can then dispose of it for you.

Sleepless and Manic

I was arrested in the US for possession of weed.

The officer had me in the back of the police car before he read me my rights. Which is a violation because you would have to be "under arrest" (basically detained, unable to leave) to be placed in the back of the car initially. So I was effectively under arrest well before he read me my rights.

The judge would probably have ignored such a technicality except that the same cop had done it a few other times as well and the lawyers had got together.

So the case was thrown out. Lucky for me.

Its called the Miranda Warning. Named after the supreme court case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning

OneOfThem

Say facking naathing, boi. Loose lips sink ships.

Potatoeman

Honesty can get you in trouble with the police. I was on a jury where the defandant picked up some illegal immigrants from the airport for 50 euro. The guy that arranged it was deported and they wanted a conviction so they charged this guy.

The case should have never made it to court.

AudreyHepburn

I'll never understand why people are so unwilling to cooperate with the police.

If you've done nothing wrong what have you got to lose?

Refusing to talk or to even go in for interview when they call are, to my mind, the most foolish things you could do. You're practically asking them to suspect you of wrongdoing.

gizmo555

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

VisibleGorilla

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'll never understand why people are so unwilling to cooperate with the police.

If you've done nothing wrong what have you got to lose?

Refusing to talk or to even go in for interview when they call are, to my mind, the most foolish things you could do. You're practically asking them to suspect you of wrongdoing.

The reason is there is NOTHING to be gained from speaking to them.

If you are innocent or guilty it doesn't really matter, speaking to them can be very bad for you, it only benefits the Gardai. Why do they do it in the first place? To gather evidence/force a confession.

gramar

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'll never understand why people are so unwilling to cooperate with the police.

If you've done nothing wrong what have you got to lose?

Refusing to talk or to even go in for interview when they call are, to my mind, the most foolish things you could do. You're practically asking them to suspect you of wrongdoing.

I'd be inclined to agree. Thing is...the police/gardaí arrest a lot of people..some guilty some not but they will all protest their innocence regardless so they've heard it all before. Might be best to say as little as possible till you can gather your thoughts.

Valetta

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

The reason is there is NOTHING to be gained from speaking to them.

If you are innocent or guilty it doesn't really matter, speaking to them can be very bad for you, it only benefits the Gardai. Why do they do it in the first place? To gather evidence/force a confession.

it or not, not all police investigations are carried out with the sole intention of "nailing" someone.

The vast majority just want to get to the truth of the matter in hand, as quickly as possible.

If you co-operate and answer any straightforward questions, you will be doing both yourself and the Guards a big favour, and all can move on with their lives that little bit quicker.

I have found this to be the best approach.

Unless, of course, you've something to hide.

Dyr

RustyNut wrote: »

Dont know about the UK but the Irish constitution enshrines your right not to incriminate yourself.

If you dont say anything you cant say anything wrong.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/

offences against the state act made **** of that years ago

Mesrine65

"I'll be happy to fully comply with your requests Gard...as soon as my legal representative arrives"

LDN_Irish

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'll never understand why people are so unwilling to cooperate with the police.

If you've done nothing wrong what have you got to lose?

Refusing to talk or to even go in for interview when they call are, to my mind, the most foolish things you could do. You're practically asking them to suspect you of wrongdoing.

I was assaulted on a campsite (not travellers. Holiday style camping) by a man of around 50 when I was 15 and drunk. Turns out he was married to a police officer. He was annoyed because he alleged we woke him up and when he started shouting at me I told him to **** off so he punched me in the head. I punched him back and as I was walking away his friends who were woken by the commotion ran out and attempted to detain me so I tried to fight them off. I did a lot of shouting during the incident* and fell in to a table knocking it over**. They overpowered me and the police were called. While they had me detained I was verbally abusive towards them*** because one of them was bending my thumb backwards to intentionally cause me pain. Police came and arrested me. The original attacker admitted to police that he hit me first before any physical contact, they didn't arrest him. I told police he'd hit me first and should be arrested and they told ,e to shut up.

Long story short, the next day I'm in questioning with my solicitor and submit a statement outlining the above but with the parts I've asterisked not included. I then answered any questions that had already been answered in my statement and "no commented" the rest. The reasons being that:

*potentially disturbing the peace
**potentially criminal damage
***potentially all kinds of charges depending on what I said.

It doesn't matter that a court wouldn't convict on those charges because they all stemmed from someone else's criminality and was in the course of a reasonable defense of myself. The police will still try to stick charges on you and possibly put pressure on to agree to a caution if you give them anything to work with.

Months later at dinner with my family my dad gets a phone call. The CPS, all charges dropped and would I like to still press charges against the man. No says I, like a ****ing muppet. I should have had him convicted.

NachoBusiness

Years ago now I was arrested for some serious crimes in the U.K. and they brought in one of those criminal psychologists to suss me out.

I wasn't having any of it and so started singing..

L.I.V. E.R.P. Double O.L. Liverpool F.C.

..over and over again. Really wrecked his head. He had a gambling problem and I think I might have made it worse.

Junkyard Tom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPqAcOnEBUI

AudreyHepburn

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

The reason is there is NOTHING to be gained from speaking to them.

If you are innocent or guilty it doesn't really matter, speaking to them can be very bad for you, it only benefits the Gardai. Why do they do it in the first place? To gather evidence/force a confession.

I don't what sort of police officers you've had the misfortune of dealing with but they either weren't very professional or you gave them reason to treat you like you were guilty of something.

In the vast majority of cases the police will have simply called you in for in for question simply to help get to the bottom of a case....it does not mean they believe you did something or they are are trying to force into anything.

Once again if you have done nothing wrong, you should have nothing to be afraid of.

AudreyHepburn

gramar wrote: »

I'd be inclined to agree. Thing is...the police/gardaí arrest a lot of people..some guilty some not but they will all protest their innocence regardless so they've heard it all before. Might be best to say as little as possible till you can gather your thoughts.

But surely by saying nothing and refusing to cooperate you would appear to them to be hiding something?

gizmo555

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But surely by saying nothing and refusing to cooperate you would appear to them to be hiding something?

And? Is appearing to the Gardaí to be hiding something an offence?

AudreyHepburn

gizmo555 wrote: »

And? Is appearing to the Gardaí to be hiding something an offence?

Perversion of Justice/Hindering an investigation is an offence as far as I am aware.

So you can see why you appearing to be holding something back might not go over well.

Agent Smith

gizmo555 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Is irrelevant in Ireland...


For a start...

Dyr

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Perversion of Justice/Hindering an investigation is an offence as far as I am aware.

So you can see why you appearing to be holding something back might not go over well.

The why do the gardee keep doing it so?

AudreyHepburn

Bambi wrote: »

The why do the gardee keep doing it so?

Keeping doing what?

gizmo555

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Perversion of Justice/Hindering an investigation is an offence as far as I am aware.

So you can see why you appearing to be holding something back might not go over well.

The OP's question was should one talk to the police. It doesn't really matter if staying silent doesn't "go over well" with the Gardaí. It's for the courts and not the Gardaí to decide if you're guilty of an offence.

razorblunt

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Years ago now I was arrested for some serious crimes in the U.K. and they brought in one of those criminal psychologists to suss me out.

I wasn't having any of it and so started singing..

L.I.V. E.R.P. Double O.L. Liverpool F.C.

..over and over again. Really wrecked his head. He had a gambling problem and I think I might have made it worse.

Cracker of a story.

gizmo555

Agent Smith wrote: »

Is irrelevant in Ireland...

It's very relevant. The same tactics described in the video are used by police the world over. And we have rights not to self-incriminate ourselves similar - not identical, but similar - to the US 5th amendment rights.

Mesrine65

If anything is to be garnered from this thread, it's that a large number of our populace have a wariness regarding An Garda Síochána & the way they conduct themselves.

Peter Anthony

What if its assault and your defence is self defence?

jmayo

Is OP a politician or rather ex politician by any chance ?

Peter Anthony

Mesrine65 wrote: »

If anything is to be garnered from this thread, it's that a large number of our populace have a wariness regarding An Garda Síochána & the way they conduct themselves.

If fairness there are some real rogues in the force that think nothing of lying in court and sticking people on false charges.

Its easy to say trust them and "if you've nothing to hide", until you have dealings with them and see what goes on, or land in front of them in the station.

gizmo555

Peter Anthony wrote: »

What if its assault and your defence is self defence?

Give your defence in court.

(Take a look at the video I linked to above. As well as being quite entertaining, it's a real eye-opener.)

Mesrine65

Peter Anthony wrote: »

If fairness there are some real rogues in the force that think nothing of lying in court and sticking people on false charges.

Its easy to say trust them and "if you've nothing to hide", until you have dealings with them and see what goes on, or land in front of them in the station.

I agree...

What stood out for me in this thread, is the lack of trust & wariness of a large amount of people in our society against the so called 'guardians of society'

This lack of trust/wariness suggests to me that An Garda Síochána are failing in their mission statement of 'working with communities to protect & serve'

http://garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=5416

RustyNut

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Once again if you have done nothing wrong, you should have nothing to be afraid of.

Why should I need to prove that I done nothing wrong.

Talking to AGS didn't work out too well for Dean Lyons and he done nothing wrong.

The report found that five senior gardai ignored concerns over Dean's confession but did not inform the DPP of the concerns.
Convicted killer Mark Nash later confessed to his then girlfriend, Sarah Jane Doyle, that he had murdered the two women.
Nash had knowledge of the crime scene only the murderer could have known. He admitted he was the Grangegorman killer but he was never charged.
But investigating gardai continued to refuse to accept they had made a mistake. This led to delays in releasing Lyons from custody. He died from a heroin overdose in 2000.

mynamejeff

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

The reason is there is NOTHING to be gained from speaking to them.

If you are innocent or guilty it doesn't really matter, speaking to them can be very bad for you, it only benefits the Gardai. Why do they do it in the first place? To gather evidence/force a confession.

Might be you can assist in the investigation of a crime ? help the victim of a crime. do you duty as a citizen.

Its people who refuse to speak when they can help that add to state the country and justice system is in.

By all means protect your self with legal representation but why stone wall an investigation if you can help.

For all those saying "stay silent", wrong wrong wrong.

It may be advisable, but it depends very much on the nature of the allegation, whether inferences can be drawn from the silence, the nature of any instructions/defence etc. Instructing a client in a Garda Station is one of the most intricate areas of law, as so much can hinge on what is said...and not said...there.