Landlord with a problem

AmberGold

Hi,

I'm an accidental landlord and have a decent tenant, a young man who pays on time and seems to look after the place.

A few weeks ago there was an "attempted" break in at 3am and he left the property to chase the perpetrators. He reckoned they were young men possibly teenagers.
I paid €250 to get the broken glass replaced.

He called again to say they have returned and smashed even more glass, its going to cost €500 or so to have repaired.

I'm starting to consider where this is going. I don't feel up for paying this indefinitely.

If he has indeed fallen out with some of the local yob's he won't be enticed into moving by the window breaking considering I'll be picking up the tab.

Talking to the Gardai & they reckon there's not much they can do.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Con.

Atlantic Dawn

Were both cases reported to the Gardaí?

AmberGold

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Were both cases reported to the Gardaí?

Yes, I checked both were reported.

Jan Laco

Should he be enticed into moving by a group of yobs?
If he does move, how will the group of yobs know there is someone else living there before they break the glass again? They are not going to check first.

I would suggest installing cctv.

jetfiremuck

Time to move him on. Had a similar situation once,.....amazing thing once the tenant left problem disappeared. It'll get worse..stabbing or car damage. Tenant knows the gig.

AmberGold

Jan Laco wrote: »

Should he be enticed into moving by a group of yobs?
If he does move, how will the group of yobs know there is someone else living there before they break the glass again? They are not going to check first.

I would suggest installing cctv.

I was referring to to motivation of the yobs in targeting my tenant. I have considered CCTV but as someone who has CCTV in my own home I can say it's next to useless.

toptom

AmberGold wrote: »

I was referring to to motivation of the yobs in targeting my tenant. I have considered CCTV but as someone who has CCTV in my own home I can say it's next to useless.

When in doubt, Chuck him out ! He obviously brought that trouble on your property so he won't be any good as a long term tenant.

riclad

Get unbreakable glass ,fitted ,
its not really glass ,it s plastic that does,nt look quiet as good as glass .
http://www.hammerglass.com/
the glazier will have it in stock,
its not as shiny as glass .
like the glass in certain phones it WILL not break or shatter .
Costs abit more than standard glass .
a hammer, rock will bounce off it.
say paneof standard glass is 10 it might cost 14 euro .

get a least half an inch thick pane .
unless you are very close it looks like glass.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Glass-Plastic-Sheets/N-5yc1vZbrdg

Polycarbonate Sheets is the technical name

250 times stronger than glass. Ideal for security and protection purposes. Use indoor or outdoor.
IT can be installed like any glass pane in the same frame ,
and cut to whatever size you need by the glazier .

it,s used in shops or factorys, warehouse,s .
looks a bit dull compared to ordinary glass .
it cannot break,or shatter .
its not the glass used in pvc doors or windows.

ted1

Your window will be covered by insurance, and unless it's a huge window should only cost 200-300

AmberGold

It's two windows, leaded, and I've already paid for one. I have no insurance on the property other than block insurance which is included as part of my management fees.

Electric Sheep

AmberGold wrote: »

It's two windows, leaded, and I've already paid for one. I have no insurance on the property other than block insurance which is included as part of my management fees.

Is it even legal to rent out a place with no insurance? It's certainly foolhardy.

It is the landlord's responsibility to replace the glass. And for those who are advising the OP to evict the tenant, exactly what legal grounds could she use?

massy086

Personally I think you need to find a new glazier. As 500 sounds. Very expensive. I have been a glazier for 20 years and I rarely hand out bills that hight for domestic glass even with lead

AmberGold

There's no law in relation to contents cover, I have the building covered. God these threads go off in odd directions. I've no plan to evict either.

massy086

I always thought contents insurance was the Tennant s responsible

Arbiter of Good Taste

massy086 wrote: »

I always thought contents insurance was the Tennant s responsible

You are correct. Furthermore, while specific landlord insurance to cover damage to the rented property and the landlord's fixtures and fittings is not obligatory, if the property is mortgaged, you will find that the bank is most likely require it. Regardless, for the sake of €200-300 which is tax deductible, it's really a no-brainer.

Electric Sheep

massy086 wrote: »

I always thought contents insurance was the Tennant s responsible

But are windows considered contents? Wouldn't tenants be getting insurance coverage for their own contents only, and the landlord for those he owns? Why would a tenant pay insurance on furniture, fixtures and fittings owned by the landlord? Genuine question...

riclad

There,s no point in getting expensive lead glass fitted if it can be broken like ordinary glass .

Gmaximum

Check the lease the one I have has a clause that the tenant pays for broken windows.

Don't know if I'd actually enforce it if not their fault though but guess it provides some cover for a situation like this or general stupidity

Mrs OBumble

Electric Sheep wrote: »

But are windows considered contents? Wouldn't tenants be getting insurance coverage for their own contents only, and the landlord for those he owns? Why would a tenant pay insurance on furniture, fixtures and fittings owned by the landlord? Genuine question...

Absolutely not: the LL can insure what s/he owns, the tenant can only insure what s/he owns.

Even if the LL had insurance which covered the windows, then it would be foolish to be claiming too often on it for such a low value item - there's a chance that the insurance company might refuse to cover it.

But all this insurance talk is really off topic.

OP - you need to use local relationships to get this sorted. Do you know any politicians in the area who are likely to have community influence?

AmberGold

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Absolutely not: the LL can insure what s/he owns, the tenant can only insure what s/he owns.

Even if the LL had insurance which covered the windows, then it would be foolish to be claiming too often on it for such a low value item - there's a chance that the insurance company might refuse to cover it.

But all this insurance talk is really off topic.

OP - you need to use local relationships to get this sorted. Do you know any politicians in the area who are likely to have community influence?[/quote

Sounds like a job for a local Sinn Fein rep!

FrStone

Gmaximum wrote: »

Check the lease the one I have has a clause that the tenant pays for broken windows.

Don't know if I'd actually enforce it if not their fault though but guess it provides some cover for a situation like this or general stupidity

I wonder how that would play out with the prtb? It's something I've never thought about. If I broke a window as a tenant I'd have no problem paying obviously.

Gmaximum

FrStone wrote:

I wonder how that would play out with the prtb? It's something I've never thought about. If I broke a window as a tenant I'd have no problem paying obviously.

Not sure myself a friend who's a solicitor drew up the lease for me I'll ask him

beauf

You have no proof its not the tenant breaking the windows. The tenant is liable for the cost. You could take that approach.

Apart from that none of this has anything to do with the LL. The tenant has to go to the Garda not the LL.

Wabbit Ears

Mrs OBumble wrote:

Absolutely not: the LL can insure what s/he owns, the tenant can only insure what s/he owns.

I believe it's not ownership but 'insurable interest'.

The Tennant could certainly insure the windows if they were so inclined to do so AFAIK but would happily be corrected.

mahamageehad

I agree about the CCTV. You might find it useless in your house but if they are young thugs then it might be enough to scare em. Also the unbreakable glass sounds great! Have to say I've lived it two previous properties that had glass broken. The first time was at night, someone threw a wine bottle through it. The landlord paid to repair and didn't even question it. The second time it was one of my housemates fault and she fixed it. Would be interesting in hearing the legal position!

Ashbx

I would suggest giving your tenant a warning. Pay this window damage but tell him if it happens again, he will have to pay the costs. I agree things like the windows getting smashed should be paid for by the Landlord but if its a regular occurrence, you cant be expected to pay and the tenant should take some responsibility for what happens in the house he is living in!

stefanovich

* Good tenant, always pays on time
* Window was broken, presumably unprovoked (unless you can prove otherwise)
* He gave chase, potentially encouraging the second damage.
* Incidents were reported to the gardai on both occasions

Is this a dodgy area? Are these kind of things commonplace?

I suggest the tenant acted reasonably and is no way at fault.

Your property is being vandalised by a third party. They are the problem.

allibastor

AmberGold wrote: »

Hi,

I'm an accidental landlord and have a decent tenant, a young man who pays on time and seems to look after the place.

A few weeks ago there was an "attempted" break in at 3am and he left the property to chase the perpetrators. He reckoned they were young men possibly teenagers.
I paid €250 to get the broken glass replaced.

He called again to say they have returned and smashed even more glass, its going to cost €500 or so to have repaired.

I'm starting to consider where this is going. I don't feel up for paying this indefinitely.

If he has indeed fallen out with some of the local yob's he won't be enticed into moving by the window breaking considering I'll be picking up the tab.

Talking to the Gardai & they reckon there's not much they can do.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Con.

What do you want anyone to say.

Sometimes people may attract the problems, other times the problems just attract themselves.

Ask the young guy what happened, I mean going onto an internet board without speaking to him first on any source of problem.

It may be a simple thing that someone thinks he has money. My next door neighbor is a mechanic and deals in cars for cash with non-nationals. He has had about 5 break-ins over the last 2 years but he knows himself it is cause everyone knows he deals in cash.

Ask your tenant first, then see what to do after.

keane2097

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Time to move him on. Had a similar situation once,.....amazing thing once the tenant left problem disappeared. It'll get worse..stabbing or car damage. Tenant knows the gig.

toptom wrote: »

When in doubt, Chuck him out ! He obviously brought that trouble on your property so he won't be any good as a long term tenant.

beauf wrote: »

You have no proof its not the tenant breaking the windows. The tenant is liable for the cost. You could take that approach.

Apart from that none of this has anything to do with the LL. The tenant has to go to the Garda not the LL.

Ashbx wrote: »

I would suggest giving your tenant a warning. Pay this window damage but tell him if it happens again, he will have to pay the costs. I agree things like the windows getting smashed should be paid for by the Landlord but if its a regular occurrence, you cant be expected to pay and the tenant should take some responsibility for what happens in the house he is living in!

Is it any wonder people in this country treat landlords with suspicion in fairness.

Ashbx

keane2097 wrote: »

Is it any wonder people in this country treat landlords with suspicion in fairness.

So no suggestions yourself no?!?

Im speaking from a tenants point of view! I don't think I would have gone back to my landlord the second time and have the cheek to ask him to pay for the window...yet again!! Regardless of whats happening, its not fair that the landlord has to pay! I have a great relationship with my landlord and if anything is wrong with the house, he will cover all costs no questions asked but I don't take the piss. This tenant sounds like he's taking the piss a bit!

Oink

Jesus first the tenant gets his home broken into, then his landlord/lady chucks him out for being a victim of harassment? I'd hate to be you buddy, whoever you are.

And as someone else pointed out, is there going to be a sign on the window when he moves out to explain that it is now safe to stop breaking the windows?

keane2097

Ashbx wrote: »

So no suggestions yourself no?!?

Im speaking from a tenants point of view! I don't think I would have gone back to my landlord the second time and have the cheek to ask him to pay for the window...yet again!! Regardless of whats happening, its not fair that the landlord has to pay! I have a great relationship with my landlord and if anything is wrong with the house, he will cover all costs no questions asked but I don't take the piss. This tenant sounds like he's taking the piss a bit!

My suggestion is that if you think giving someone a warning for allowing his windows to get broken () is a sensible or reasonable thing to do you might want to reconsider.

Noopti

Are all these people suggesting "kick him out" because some yobs are breaking windows living in the real bloody world?!

Disgraceful.

runawaybishop

keane2097 wrote: »

Is it any wonder people in this country treat landlords with suspicion in fairness.

Which of those 4 posters are landlords?

newacc2015

OP call SA Faughnan ASAP and buy landlord insurance(they are the only broker who can get any reasonable insurance for landlords). If that apartment block burnt to the ground tomorrow. Could you afford to have a loss of rent for 12 months for the apartment block to be refurbished. For literally about 200-300 a year. You can buy insurance to cover a loss of rent for this situation

A family friend had their bedsit burnt to the ground by a feuding tenants. They had a fight with lighter fluid and burnt the building to the ground. He was almost broke as he had to fund the renovation out of pocket and was at a loss of rent for nearly 6 months.

FYI never claim on insurance for small things like windows. It will destroy your no claims bonus. It will cost you in the long run.

Did you ever do a reference check on this tenant? I find it hard to believe someone would go to the trouble to smash your windows a second time over something basic like this. Is there any houses in the area connected with a certain catholic drug charity? I know someone who had neighbours basically accusing a group of 18/19 year old female tenants putting full wheelie bins on cars and destroying the cars paintwork. It turned out to be a group of recovering drug addicts in the end

JaMarcusHustle

newacc2015 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe someone would go to the trouble to smash your windows a second time over something basic like this.

I find it remarkably easy to believe. Have you seen some of the scrotes the scum in this country churn out when they breed?

Arbiter of Good Taste

keane2097 wrote: »

Is it any wonder people in this country treat landlords with suspicion in fairness.

Congratulations. It only took 29 posts to try and turn this into a Landlord v Tenant debate

AmberGold

Good suggestions here folks amidst the usual crock of mud slinging.

As I said the tenant is decent and I'd like him to stay.

Along with the tenant I am the victim of these Vandals or whatever they are as I am picking up the tab. The property itself is in negative equity and its now becoming an even worse headache than it already is.

Also trying to get to talk with the Garda thats looking after the case is proving impossible.

beauf

keane2097 wrote: »

Is it any wonder people in this country treat landlords with suspicion in fairness.

Much of it is like your comment, inadequate awareness of the facts and lacking any consideration of the practicalities involved.

Maybe you can elaborate how a LL can fix this issue, and what their remit is as a 3rd party. The LL could make the house a bunker. It still won't fix the problem. If the rental is unsustainable, its unsustainable. Good intentions won't fix that.

keane2097

beauf wrote: »

Much of it is like your comment, inadequate awareness of the facts and lacking any consideration of the practicalities involved.

Maybe you can elaborate how a LL can fix this issue, and what their remit is as a 3rd party. The LL could make the house a bunker. It still won't fix the problem. If the rental is unsustainable, its unsustainable. Good intentions won't fix that.

He could put in the unbreakable windows as was suggested earlier in the thread.

While he's waiting for that to happen he could ruminate on the nature of baseless assumptions and what to do when the windows keep getting broken after the tenant is kicked out for nothing.

gordongekko

You could also stick up a dummy camera. It might do the trick.

beauf

keane2097 wrote: »

He could put in the unbreakable windows as was suggested earlier in the thread.

While he's waiting for that to happen he could ruminate on the nature of baseless assumptions and what to do when the windows keep getting broken after the tenant is kicked out for nothing.

LL can't kick out the tenant. The LL might choose to leave though.

They weren't just breaking windows. They were breaking into the house, and have come back, after being chased. If they are prepared to do that, they will go through the doors or simply rip the windows frames out. They are picking that house/tenant for a reason. Making the house a bunker doesn't change what ever that reason is.

keane2097

beauf wrote: »

You are ill-informed.

LL can't kick out the tenant. The LL might choose to leave though.

They weren't just breaking windows. They were breaking into the house, and have come back, after being chased. If they are prepared to do that, they will go through the doors or simply rip the windows frames out. They are picking that house/tenant for a reason. Making the house a bunker doesn't change what ever that reason is.

ok

riclad

So all we know is your tenant is in conflict with some teens,
and theres a broken window.
I suggest getting an unbreakable window fitted,
in the meantime.
I can no point in getting another 200 euro glass window fitted.
if this continues or gets worse the tenant will probably move out.
The gardai don,t really have resources to check on 1 broken window.
my friends car got robbed, 200 euro taken.the car has no alarm system.
the gardai showed up,at 2.40 ,the middle of the night .
They said Ah well,sure dont you have car insurance.
he leaves money in his car all the time.I don,t expect a full garda task force to go after a few teens over one broken window.
they have to deal with drug dealers, burglars etc it wont be on the top of their list.

ZENER

riclad wrote: »

. . . they have to deal with drug dealers, burglars etc it wont be on the top of their list.

Erm . . . ?? Didn't this start due to a burglary ?

Also insuring a house with tenants in it costs a lot more that 2-300 euro. We currently have a quote for such insurance on a rented property and it's over 500 euro !

Ken

beauf

I doubt Burglary is top of their list either.

AmberGold

Right, after having a long chat with the Gardai, local shopkeepers and other residents whom I know personally I'm nearly convinced there's something else going on.

Burglars don't come back to break windows because they were scared off the first time.
There is apparently no problem in the area with youths causing trouble
There are nearly 2000 dwellings in this development and the management company tell me they have had no other reported cases this year of properties being vandalised, Gardai confirm this also

I'm starting to think there may possibly be a drug debt involved for other reasons. But would this be reported to the Gardai, likely not.

Greenmachine

AmberGold wrote: »

Right, after having a long chat with the Gardai, local shopkeepers and other residents whom I know personally I'm nearly convinced there's something else going on.

Burglars don't come back to break windows because they were scared off the first time.
There is apparently no problem in the area with youths causing trouble
There are nearly 2000 dwellings in this development and the management company tell me they have had no other reported cases this year of properties being vandalised, Gardai confirm this also

I'm starting to think there may possibly be a drug debt involved for other reasons. But would this be reported to the Gardai, likely not.

Sounds like a lot of hearsay. Not being funny but it would make more sense to pay your drug dealer before paying your rent, if violence is involved. In the normal run of things, you pay off high interest loans first, but I have never heard of a bank teller smashing a window for a missed mortgage payment. I do sympathise with landlords but the reality is it could take months for a landlord to evict someone, if they stop paying rent. Who know what the real situation is. Might be worth pricing some additional security for the house OP, and for good sake sort out some insurance.

AmberGold

I spoke to the management company today and the block insurance covers everything but contents. The excess is however €500.

massy086

AmberGold wrote: »

I spoke to the management company today and the block insurance covers everything but contents. The excess is however €500.

So no point in claiming there have u ordered the new glass yet

AmberGold

massy086 wrote: »

So no point in claiming there have u ordered the new glass yet

Nope.