Friend caught speeding (kind of) what now?

The Red Lad

Hi guys a friend of mine got caught speeding yesterday but here's the catch he got caught by passing an unmarked Garda car on the motorway doing 160kmh in 120kmh zone the Garda car seemingly followed him and pulled him in and asked him what speed he was doing to which he said around 150/160kmh. The Garda then said I'd say 180kmh to which my friend said he was not doing that speed. He took his name address and told him to produce insurance within 10 days to his local station. What will come of this?
He wasn't caught on a gun so I don't think they have full proof.
Will he just get points and a fine or could he get put off the road for this ?
And go easy on the rude comments he knows he was in the wrong and we all make mistakes from time to time.
When will a letter come ?

bladespin

If a garda witnessed it then they have proof enough.
160kmh - yes, it'll be on it's way.
Very likely a big fine and points but could be more depending, have heard of bans being handed out for over that.

evlgmaojr27ypu

bladespin wrote: »

If a garda witnessed it then they have proof enough.
160kmh - yes, it'll be on it's way.
Very likely a big fine and points but could be more depending, have heard of bans being handed out for over that.

Surely no matter what speed you were caught doing it would still only be 3 penalty points and a 80 euro fine, right ?

eeguy

bladespin wrote: »

If a garda witnessed it then they have proof enough.
.

If people are getting out of fines due to equipment calibration technicalities then how is a garda just witnessing someone speeding enough to get a fine?

RustyNut

The Red Lad wrote: »

Hi guys a friend of mine got caught speeding yesterday but here's the catch he got caught by passing an unmarked Garda car on the motorway doing 160kmh in 120kmh zone the Garda car seemingly followed him and pulled him in and asked him what speed he was doing to which he said around 150/160kmh. The Garda then said I'd say 180kmh to which my friend said he was not doing that speed. He took his name address and told him to produce insurance within 10 days to his local station. What will come of this?
He wasn't caught on a gun so I don't think they have full proof.
Will he just get points and a fine or could he get put off the road for this ?
And go easy on the rude comments he knows he was in the wrong and we all make mistakes from time to time.
When will a letter come ?

He admitted it. Either a fpn if he is lucky, or a summons to court and explain it to the judge, are the most likley outcome.

challengemaster

Titus Shapely Doorknob wrote: »

Surely no mater what speed you were caught doing it would still only be 3 penalty points and a 80 euro fine, right ?

Depends if the garda decides that doing 160 (180km/h in their opinion) warrants a driving without due care or attention or is just speeding. If it's the former, then it's mandatory court appearance, 5 points and up to €5000 fine.

CiniO

Few of my thought.

1. Doing 160km/h on motorway with 120km/h is only a minor offence in my opinion, but unfortunately for some reason in Ireland it's being pushed to be most dangerous thing a driver can do on the road.

2. It's insane that garda are allowed to form an opinion that someone was speeding just basing it their own perception. Nearly everywhere else in the world, to prosecute someone for speeding, there is a proof needed from calibrated speed detection equipment.

3. I wouldn't expect any more than 80 euros and 3 points fine in that case anyway if I was your friend.

Voodoomelon

This is an odd one.

The way you have it worded, it sounds like the Garda simply observed your friend speeding. I could be wrong, but this would be unlikely to result in a court summons for the speed the Garda believes you were doing without a digitally recorded result.

Same goes for a fixed penalty notice.

BUT he made the mistake of admitting he was doing 150-160, for which I believe he could be summonsed, but its not an overly high speed for a summons (based on other similar stories).

Could be a case of presenting your license and hoping for the best.

Maybe someone could chime in with a more definite answer.

REXER

Sure, don't you know that the Garda have highly calibrated eyes and ears. They can hear what speed you are doing as you go by them using the doppler effect!

RustyNut

challengemaster wrote: »

Depends if the garda decides that doing 160 (180km/h in their opinion) warrants a driving without due care or attention or is just speeding. If it's the former, then it's mandatory court appearance, 5 points and up to €5000 fine.

What evidence would the guard have to support a driving without due care charge?

CiniO

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I could be wrong, but this would be unlikely to result in a court summons for the speed the Garda believes you were doing without a digitally recorded result.

Same goes for a fixed penalty notice.

Unfortunately according to Irish law, garda officer is allowed to form an opinion that someone was speeding (based just on his own observation) and fine or summons that person for it. That's the law.

Voodoomelon

CiniO wrote: »

Unfortunately according to Irish law, garda officer is allowed to form an opinion that someone was speeding (based just on his own observation) and fine or summons that person for it. That's the law.

I think I heard that before. What speed is put down on the summons? I take it's just "the offence of speeding"?"

challengemaster

RustyNut wrote: »

What evidence would the guard have to support a driving without due care charge?

Their own word/opinion on what they witnessed - which is often the only evidence they have for the charge anyway.

antodeco

I was caught doing faster than that by a garda many years ago, along the M1. He had a good chat about me. Said he was behind me for a while. Said the M1 is a great road, but the speed I was doing was just a little too fast taking everything into account. He mentioned that he could summons me for driving without due care and consideration, but said the fact that I slowed down whenever I came up behind someone or to a merge, showed that I was simply using the higher speed without impending anyone else. FPN and €60 fine.

Ultimately, its going to depend on what motorway, what traffic there was, and when the driving conditions were like.

RustyNut

challengemaster wrote: »

Their own word/opinion on what they witnessed - which is often the only evidence they have for the charge anyway.

But going by the OP the driver was only speeding, not speeding and tailgaiting or anything else that would support that charge.

challengemaster

RustyNut wrote: »

But going by the OP the driver was only speeding, not speeding and tailgaiting or anything else that would support that charge.

Again - if the garda forms the opinion that the driver is driving without due care and attention for other road users then they can charge them. Driving at (an opinionated 180km/h) around other cars is enough for them to form that opinion if they wanted to.

CiniO

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I think I heard that before. What speed is put down on the summons? I take it's just "the offence of speeding"?"

Just offence of speeding.
Ireland doesn't have graduated fines for speeding (which would depend on how much someone was above the limit) so speed is not that important.

Sam Kade

Amazing the amount of friends that post queries for their friends on boards

Voodoomelon

CiniO wrote: »

Just offence of speeding.
Ireland doesn't have graduated fines for speeding (which would depend on how much someone was above the limit) so speed is not that important.

I know what you're saying, bit speed does become a factor if you consider that the higher the speed, the more likely a Garda will summonse you to court.

oppenheimer1

CiniO wrote: »

Few of my thought.

1. Doing 160km/h on motorway with 120km/h is only a minor offence in my opinion, but unfortunately for some reason in Ireland it's being pushed to be most dangerous thing a driver can do on the road.

2. It's insane that garda are allowed to form an opinion that someone was speeding just basing it their own perception. Nearly everywhere else in the world, to prosecute someone for speeding, there is a proof needed from calibrated speed detection equipment.

3. I wouldn't expect any more than 80 euros and 3 points fine in that case anyway if I was your friend.

I suppose its a good job that your opinion doesn't matter. Driving conditions throughout the country were awful yesterday, all roads were wet.

If this guy gets a fpn he should consider himself lucky.

5W30

Sam Kade wrote: »

Amazing the amount of friends that post queries for their friends on boards

Maybe people wouldn't post for their "friends" if others didn't post pointless sh*te not answering the OP's question eh?

Sam Kade

5W30 wrote: »

Maybe people wouldn't post for their "friends" if others didn't post pointless sh*te not answering the OP's question eh?

So where's your answer :rolleyes:

quadrifoglio verde

I was pulled for doing quite significantly over the speed limit on the ballymum road.
Asked to produce insurance and lincence within 10 days.
Went in a few days later, nothing on the system and the guard just put it on file that I'd presented.
You might get lucky op's friend, but is be putting aside the fine and willing to take the points.
Or if they do come, object, pay a solicitor lots of money, plus stress and hassle

5W30

Sam Kade wrote: »

So where's your answer :rolleyes:

I don't have an answer but at the same time I'm not hopping on the OP like you are. If people didn't start giving out at posters for speeding and saying they deserve it maybe they wouldn't have to claim their "friends" were speeding.

I don't see why you are trying to start a little mess here. What are you the Boards.ie Police?

Nice bit of deflection there too.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

bladespin

Titus Shapely Doorknob wrote:

Surely no matter what speed you were caught doing it would still only be 3 penalty points and a 80 euro fine, right ?

As long as it's only speeding but if they decided it was a greater offence...

eeguy wrote:

If people are getting out of fines due to equipment calibration technicalities then how is a garda just witnessing someone speeding enough to get a fine?

Are they?

Also it's very possile the garda has a calibrated speedo in the car.

RustyNut

challengemaster wrote: »

Again - if the garda forms the opinion that the driver is driving without due care and attention for other road users then they can charge them. Driving at (an opinionated 180km/h) around other cars is enough for them to form that opinion if they wanted to.

But very easily defended if speed is the only evidence.

The Red Lad

Sam Kade wrote: »

Amazing the amount of friends that post queries for their friends on boards

My car might make that speed going down a very steep hill with gailforce winds blowing behind me...Might!!

bladespin

RustyNut wrote:

But very easily defended if speed is the only evidence.

How so? It's a very high speed relative to another car driving at the limit.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Valetta

The Red Lad wrote: »

Hi guys a friend of mine got caught speeding yesterday but here's the catch he got caught by passing an unmarked Garda car on the motorway doing 160kmh in 120kmh zone the Garda car seemingly followed him and pulled him in and asked him what speed he was doing to which he said around 150/160kmh. The Garda then said I'd say 180kmh to which my friend said he was not doing that speed. He took his name address and told him to produce insurance within 10 days to his local station. What will come of this?
He wasn't caught on a gun so I don't think they have full proof.
Will he just get points and a fine or could he get put off the road for this ?
And go easy on the rude comments he knows he was in the wrong and we all make mistakes from time to time.
When will a letter come ?

On the phone, so can't hilghlight, but I'm fascinated to know how doing 160kmh in a 120kmh zone is a "mistake".

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

Unfortunately according to Irish law, garda officer is allowed to form an opinion that someone was speeding (based just on his own observation) and fine or summons that person for it. That's the law.

No difference, eg, in the UK, If the police chase after you and follow you at speed they can then flash the blues and give you a ticket. 30mph over the limit and an auto ban.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

Marcusm wrote: »

No difference, eg, in the UK, If the police chase after you and follow you at speed they can then flash the blues and give you a ticket. 30mph over the limit and an auto ban.

Luckyly beside UK and Ireland, there's hardly many more such cowboy law countries which allow that.
Properly calibrated speed measuring equipment is needed to prosecute someone for speeding in most places in EU.

Bio Mech

Valetta wrote: »

On the phone, so can't hilghlight, but I'm fascinated to know how doing 160kmh in a 120kmh zone is a "mistake".

Always (at least) one.

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

Unfortunately according to Irish law, garda officer is allowed to form an opinion that someone was speeding (based just on his own observation) and fine or summons that person for it. That's the law.

Not quite, a Garda's opinion of speed has to be corroborated in some way. That can take the form of another witness's opinion or it could be a speed measuring device such as the Garda's speedometer. Unfortunately in this case the driver did that himself by admitting his speed.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/81/enacted/en/html#sec81

(5) In proceedings for an offence referred to in subsection (1), if proof of the offence involves proof of the speed at which a person (whether the accused or another person) was driving, the uncorroborated evidence of one witness stating his opinion as to that speed shall not be accepted as proof of that speed.

Sam Kade

5W30 wrote: »

I don't have an answer but at the same time I'm not hopping on the OP like you are. If people didn't start giving out at posters for speeding and saying they deserve it maybe they wouldn't have to claim their "friends" were speeding.

I don't see why you are trying to start a little mess here. What are you the Boards.ie Police?

Nice bit of deflection there too.

It was an observation, don't get your knickers in a twist over it.

Jawgap

Sam Kade wrote: »

Amazing the amount of friends that post queries for their friends on boards

Friends don't let friends post on boards

He's goosed. He admitted driving at 160km/hr - if the Guard processes it as an FCPN (for speeding) I'd take it.

He might be lucky and the Guard might not process it once he produces his licence & insurance.

RustyNut

slimjimmc wrote: »

Not quite, a Garda's opinion of speed has to be corroborated in some way. That can take the form of another witness's opinion or it could be a speed measuring device such as the Garda's speedometer. Unfortunately in this case the driver did that himself by admitting his speed.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/81/enacted/en/html#sec81

One more reason to only say what you are obliged to and nothing else when speaking to a guard.

La Fenetre

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't think your smelly underpants are going to help you in court

Guy:Incognito

CiniO wrote: »

2. It's insane that garda are allowed to form an opinion that someone was speeding just basing it their own perception. Nearly everywhere else in the world, to prosecute someone for speeding, there is a proof needed from calibrated speed detection equipment.
.

Doesn't take much cop on to form an opinion that someone is speeding if you're doing the speed limit and they fly by you.

sdanseo

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I suppose its a good job that your opinion doesn't matter. Driving conditions throughout the country were awful yesterday, all roads were wet.

If this guy gets a fpn he should consider himself lucky.

It's driving in a straight line on a road with traffic travelling in a single direction.

Whatever if he was tailgating, weaving or something as well, but on an empty road, even in the wet, that sort of speed is not worrysome. Remember that to be motorway, a road has to have 500m viewable distance in front. Plenty of time to slow and even stop if necessary.

Guy:Incognito

sdanseo wrote: »

It's driving in a straight line on a road with traffic travelling in a single direction..

and yet there are crashes nearly every day on the M50............

George Dalton

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and yet there are crashes nearly every day on the M50............

There are, and they happen at speeds significantly slower than 160km/h, in fact at speeds significantly slower than the 100km/h speed limit.

You can't measure good or safe driving with a speed gun.

eeguy

bladespin wrote: »

If a garda witnessed it then they have proof enough.

bladespin wrote: »

Also it's very possile the garda has a calibrated speedo in the car.

I doubt any of this would hold up if it went to court.

A guard saw a guy on the motorway travelling faster than he was.

The guard can't prove how fast his own car was going.
He can't show how fast the offender was going.
There's no evidence to say exactly where the offence took place.

Absolutely no material evidence except the word of one Garda against a motorist.

Now if only the OP's "friend" didn't admit to travelling above the limit :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No doubt about it.

RustyNut wrote: »

One more reason to only say what you are obliged to and nothing else when speaking to a guard.

Yup, rookie mistake there.

Marcusm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Apologies for my short hand; certainty of summons and near certainty if ban. The 3 people I know who have been caught had no luck escaping despite engaging Mr Loophole! And not just 70mph zones but 30 over any limit. More if the idiots was 70 in a 40.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

challengemaster

eeguy wrote: »

Absolutely no material evidence except the word of one Garda against a motorist.

Apart from the word of a Garda holds significantly more weight than your average joe. It's not quite he says she says.

Marcusm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Indeed, the first guy I know who used him had a reason to pay his £10k fee - he had just resigned and the 3 month ban coincided with gardening leave and the only time he needed to use to use his car every day. Needless to say it got him nowhere and I've no idea why the other 2 followed through and used him later.

Tldr; wanting to play golf every day is not extreme hardship!

bladespin

Hmmm, have you spent any time in our courts?
Road traffic act 2010 section 81 for example, it's literally shocking how little proof is needed once it's submitted by a garda.

Zurbaran

Sounds to me like he just wants proof of insurance and nothing more.