Portmarnock Links - Price increase

dak

Was talking to a neighbour of mine in Portmarnock and he told me that the Links are putting up Green Fees to €80 during the week and €100 at the weekend.

Can anyone confirm this ? I know they spent a million on the course recently but thats a steep rise from €45..

PARlance

Think they're just trying to price themselves into the tourist market. To a large degree, price is perception in that market.

Twas great while it lasted.

Hoof Hearted2

PARlance wrote: »

Twas great while it lasted.

Agreed, the good times are over, no doubt they will still have open days for the cheapos amongst us.

Dr_Colossus

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Agreed, the good times are over, no doubt they will still have open days for the cheapos amongst us.

Their opens were never cheap however and nearly always charged a competition fee on top of the green fee, ie open competition fee of €50 when you could get green fees for €45.

bustercherry

Shame as even though 45 is too much for an open on it, I prefer to throw an extra 15 euro on it realistic value for a course I enjoy. Think opens are up to 55 the last time I checked.

No where near 100 euro's worth, especially when you can get out round the european for less.

Ollieboy

The days of cheap golf is coming to a end. I was at a GUI meeting recently and it appears a lot of clubs are starting to put up green fees and stop using sites like Tee-times etc, but the membership prices will remain the same.

Never being a better time to join a club and get in before the hello money also comes back into it.

ShivasIrons

bustercherry wrote: »

Shame as even though 45 is too much for an open on it, I prefer to throw an extra 15 euro on it realistic value for a course I enjoy. Think opens are up to 55 the last time I checked.

No where near 100 euro's worth, especially when you can get out round the european for less.

The peak season green fee at the European Club is €180

mike12

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The peak season green fee at the European Club is €180

Pretty sure he has a rate for those who are members of Gui clubs and he also has the open comp running all week. That is the tourist rate.

ShivasIrons

mike12 wrote: »

Pretty sure he has a rate for those who are members of Gui clubs and he also has the open comp running all week. That is the tourist rate.

Yes there are discounted rates at the European Club but the poster was comparing discounted rates at the European to the highest rate of €100 at Portmarnock Links, that is not a like for like comparison, comparing highest rates at both would be.

mike12

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Yes there are discounted rates at the European Club but the poster was comparing discounted rates at the European to the highest rate of €100 at Portmarnock Links, that is not a like for like comparison, comparing highest rates at both would be.

Would agree, basically if it's not 100 bucks the yanks just don't want to play it.
The rack rates and what the locals can get out for is often different.
Not sure if old head still do it but they used to have a 60 twilight rate that started at 3 in the summer. The rack rate there is a 1000 a line or used to be pre recession.

ShivasIrons

mike12 wrote: »

Would agree, basically if it's not 100 bucks the yanks just don't want to play it.
The rack rates and what the locals can get out for is often different.
Not sure if old head still do it but they used to have a 60 twilight rate that started at 3 in the summer. The rack rate there is a 1000 a line or used to be pre recession.

So which rate is used to compare fees between clubs?

The €45 rate at Portmarnock Links was too low and they're right to raise it, €80-€100 is a much better reflection on the quality of the course

bustercherry

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Yes there are discounted rates at the European Club but the poster was comparing discounted rates at the European to the highest rate of €100 at Portmarnock Links, that is not a like for like comparison, comparing highest rates at both would be.

There is no discounted rates in Portmarnock links. If I want to play it at the weekend, it's will be 100 bucks (or 55 in an open).

Ring the European and it's 50 (last time was in the summer gone) for an open and generally if there is no open at the weekend they'll let you out for the Open rate.

Last time I checked I wasn't a tourist and I suspect most people on here are not either; so it is much more like for like than comparing the both full green fee rates.

ShivasIrons

bustercherry wrote: »

There is no discounted rates in Portmarnock links. If I want to play it at the weekend, it's will be 100 bucks (or 55 in an open).

Ring the European and it's 50 (last time was in the summer gone) for an open and generally if there is no open at the weekend they'll let you out for the Open rate.

Last time I checked I wasn't a tourist and I suspect most people on here are not either; so it is much more like for like than comparing the both full green fee rates.

Comparing a restricted rate which is what an open rate is or a rate that's a deal to the full price isn't correct. The restricted rates aren't available to every one, there's a restriction on them.

I think the wife of a member in Portmarnock can play for €1, does this mean that every other club in the country is terrible value compared to that? No, it's a restricted rate and only available to a limited number and not possible to compare this rate to any other green fee.

bustercherry

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Comparing a restricted rate which is what an open rate is or a rate that's a deal to the full price isn't correct. The restricted rates aren't available to every one, there's a restriction on them.

I think the wife of a member in Portmarnock can play for €1, does this mean that every other club in the country is terrible value compared to that? No, it's a restricted rate and only available to a limited number and not possible to compare this rate to any other green fee.

Away and pull your wire would ya....... Your just gonna argue your point even though it's clearly wrong in the context of the people on this board.

But to put it to bed from my point of view, Portmarnock links is not a 100 euro course unless something has changes in the last 2 months since I played it. It doesn't have the practice facilities to put it in that bracket either; which for me is biggest drawback.

Benicetomonty

Id be of the belief that very few domestic tourists will pay 80-100e to play Port links, so Im more disappointed theyve raised the open comp fees. Opens in the European Club are now cheaper and the two courses are not comparable, so will be interesting to see if participation drops over the winter. Having said that, the Links is a whole lot more convenient for most and, arguably, a less stressful challenge.

I wouldve assumed visitors from USA or Japan are over here to play Portmarnock Old and not the Links, so dont know if it's prudent to raise the price. Likely to damage domestic market and have no affect on the foreign market.

First Up

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Id be of the belief that very few domestic tourists will pay 80-100e to play Port links, so Im more disappointed theyve raised the open comp fees. Opens in the European Club are now cheaper and the two courses are not comparable, so will be interesting to see if participation drops over the winter. Having said that, the Links is a whole lot more convenient for most and, arguably, a less stressful challenge.

I wouldve assumed visitors from USA or Japan are over here to play Portmarnock Old and not the Links, so dont know if it's prudent to raise the price. Likely to damage domestic market and have no affect on the foreign market.

They seem to do good business out of the UK - handy for the airport. €100 is pushing it though.

yettie1701

12 of us play the links every year at the end of October or beginning of November. This year we payed 60 euro after haggling a bit. We all said that would be all we would be prepared to pay. It's a great course but not a hope would I pay 80 never mind a 100 to play it. Looks like we will need to find a new venue for next year. Pity

PARlance

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Comparing a restricted rate which is what an open rate is or a rate that's a deal to the full price isn't correct. The restricted rates aren't available to every one, there's a restriction on them.

I think the wife of a member in Portmarnock can play for €1, does this mean that every other club in the country is terrible value compared to that? No, it's a restricted rate and only available to a limited number and not possible to compare this rate to any other green fee.

Most people I know can get out on The European for this "restricted" rate.
Most people I know aren't married to a member of Portmarnock Links.

The Golf Club at PL does not own the course. It gets alloted slots, the majority of tee times will be controlled by the commercial entity that owns the hotel. I would imagine that there won't be any haggle room on these. Most tee times at The European are very easily subject to a discount.

Golfgraffix

I may be biased but i think it is a fair rate. It is a top quality course with a great facility attached. The only thing missing is a long game practice area, the new short game area is as good as any links course i have seen.

In the area you are comparing it against

The Island - €150
Royal Dublin - €150
St Annes - €80
Sutton - €50

IMO only The Island is ahead of it.

J

PARlance

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I may be biased but i think it is a fair rate. It is a top quality course with a great facility attached. The only thing missing is a long game practice area, the new short game area is as good as any links course i have seen.

In the area you are comparing it against

The Island - €150
Royal Dublin - €150
St Annes - €80
Sutton - €50

IMO only The Island is ahead of it.

J

Think you may have missed one other course in the area

FixdePitchmark

PARlance wrote: »

Think you may have missed one other course in the area

Corballis - 15 quid - with nearest the pin and 2s - 18 quid :P:D

PARlance

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Corballis - 15 quid - with nearest the pin and 2s - 18 quid :P:D

Corballis €18
Portmarnock GC €185 (J must be under orders never to speak about the neighbours)

Think it's €6 back for your 2's in Corballis these days Fix.

BigChap1759

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I may be biased but i think it is a fair rate. It is a top quality course with a great facility attached. The only thing missing is a long game practice area, the new short game area is as good as any links course i have seen.

In the area you are comparing it against

The Island - €150
Royal Dublin - €150
St Annes - €80
Sutton - €50

IMO only The Island is ahead of it.

J

St Anne's is really €80??!!

Crazy......

Have to say I agree that €100 is over the top for what is a relatively new course - I think it's ok but nothing special.

FixdePitchmark

BigChap1759 wrote: »

St Anne's is really €80??!!

Crazy......

Have to say I agree that €100 is over the top for what is a relatively new course - I think it's ok but nothing special.

That is weekend top rate.

Very few people pay them rates.

My main issue is a no real GUI rate or open competition in some of above.

There is a local rate in US - anyway , basically all links in Dublin are way too expensive for GUI members.

ShivasIrons

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

basically all links in Dublin are way too expensive for GUI members.

Too expensive compared to what?

FixdePitchmark

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Too expensive compared to what?

Well a normal Open.

There is hardly even an open in any of them.

You can get a round of top class golf for 40 to 60 euro -80 to 100 euro + for a round of golf is mad stuff.

Dr_Colossus

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well a normal Open.

There is hardly even an open in any of them.

You can get a round of top class golf for 40 to 60 euro -80 to 100 euro + for a round of golf is mad stuff.

+1, I've played a good deal of golf over the past 5 years and am Dublin based but I've never played The Island, Portmarnock, St. Annes or Sutton because as said above there is practically no open competitions held on them and their rates are far too expensive. The most I've ever payed for a round of golf was €60 which was for The European club a few years ago in their open competition.

The only Dublin links cources I've played is Portmarnock Links and Royal Dublin. It's years since I played Royal Dublin but was not overly impressed with it and while not a major fan of Portmarnock Links either I would rank it ahead of Royal Dublin.

To my shame I've yet to play Corballis also, no excuses there with cost or open competitions but just never got around to it.

Golfgraffix

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

not a major fan of Portmarnock Links either I would rank it ahead of Royal Dublin.

Being a member I am obviously somewhat biased. I hear this comment a lot I never really understood it. I think PL is a great track, in really good condition, though, good strategy and a good selection of holes.

Dr_Colosus can you tell me what made you not a big fan? Not looking for an arguementi, I am genuinely interested in your opinion.

J

First Up

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

+1, I've played a good deal of golf over the past 5 years and am Dublin based but I've never played The Island, Portmarnock, St. Annes or Sutton because as said above there is practically no open competitions held on them and their rates are far too expensive. The most I've ever payed for a round of golf was €60 which was for The European club a few years ago in their open competition.

The only Dublin links cources I've played is Portmarnock Links and Royal Dublin. It's years since I played Royal Dublin but was not overly impressed with it and while not a major fan of Portmarnock Links either I would rank it ahead of Royal Dublin.

To my shame I've yet to play Corballis also, no excuses there with cost or open competitions but just never got around to it.

Hard to believe that St Annes or Sutton would see themselves as comparable with Portmarnock, The Island or Royal Dublin and even harder to believe anyone would pay an equivalent rate for them. St Annes is a step up from Corballis, but not a very big one. Sutton is a pleasant little 9 hole but also 2nd or 3rd tier.

bustercherry

First Up wrote: »

Hard to believe that St Annes or Sutton would see themselves as comparable with Portmarnock, The Island or Royal Dublin and even harder to believe anyone would pay an equivalent rate for them. St Annes is a step up from Corballis, but not a very big one. Sutton is a pleasant little 9 hole but also 2nd or 3rd tier.

Is it though? Being honest and if you compared the courses only; I don't think it is. St Annes would probably be one of blandest courses I've played; ffs deer park is more interesting.

FixdePitchmark

Is it a condition, to be GUI affiliated, that you must hold an Open ?

The 3 big ones in Dublin that can attract a tourist premium are the 3 obvious ones

The Island
Portmarnock Golf Club
Royal County Dublin.

You would imagine PL has ambitions to be priced to match above levels - it is arguably a better course or very close to 2 of them - Not The Island.

I have to admire the sensible approach by Pat Ruddy - seems far more flexible and Open - I mean an Open in the middle of winter in wind below 10 degrees, on a links, at 50 quid, once a month, on a certain day - is not going to attract the local pub , rip the place apart, or be even busy.

I drive past and in some of above during winter - they are dead.

But besides winter - I don't think you are buying into the spirit of GUI affiliation if you have little or no Opens at all.
I often come across members of these clubs at Opens of other clubs.

I lived in America for a while and local golf courses had open days for certain industries - local rates and all sorts of reduced rate. This is in America - the supposed country of extreme capitalism.

PARlance

I'm a member of St. Anne's and there was an invitational open every second Wednesday this summer. There were regular Friday opens too during the summer. €20-€25.

They are doing quite well from Scandanavian / Nordic / Dutch visitors. The rack rate is there for them I guess.

First Up

bustercherry wrote: »

Is it though? Being honest and if you compared the courses only; I don't think it is. St Annes would probably be one of blandest courses I've played; ffs deer park is more interesting.

Well, I won't challenge you to a duel over it; I'm not crazy about either. I just think St Annes has more good holes (and fewer really bad ones) than Corballis but for the prices quoted here, I'd agree Corballis is the better deal.

BigChap1759

bustercherry wrote: »

Is it though? Being honest and if you compared the courses only; I don't think it is. St Annes would probably be one of blandest courses I've played; ffs deer park is more interesting.

I'd second this - I'd go as far as to say I wouldn't pay to play St Anne's again - very dull course(IMO).

I would prefer Corballis due to the vastly more interesting(IMO) links land it sits on.

At the end of the day clubs are entitled to charge what the want and obviously the big names don't need to attract additional lower priced green fees to assist with their finances. I'd say the main reason is that they feel offering lower priced green fees, even for opens, would dilute their exclusivity.

Dr_Colossus

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

not a major fan of Portmarnock Links either I would rank it ahead of Royal Dublin.

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Being a member I am obviously somewhat biased. I hear this comment a lot I never really understood it. I think PL is a great track, in really good condition, though, good strategy and a good selection of holes.

Dr_Colosus can you tell me what made you not a big fan? Not looking for an arguementi, I am genuinely interested in your opinion.

J

Hard to put a finger on it but I will admit I find links courses in general overrated. They're always the highest ranked in the listings due to their natural rugedness and blending in with their environment but as a golfing experience I don't quite find them as thrilling as the top tiered parklands. A lot of them are quite flat (Royal Dubin in particular) and despite being situated by the sea often don't have water or coastline in play and even the famed sea views are generally only observed from a couple of holes.

I've played Portmarnock Links 3 or 4 times over the years and each time I've never found the greens great so that has had an obvious impact on my perpection of the place. Found the green texture very coarse and grainy with the grass quite long and speed on the low side. I've played one of my best rounds in PL with my most amount of birdies in a round ever at 4 so I don't think it's an inabilty to play links golf. I've also played it in horrendously bad conditions in gale force winds and incessant rain where most of the field walked in and despite it being torterous at the time was quite fun in retrospect.

As a venue offering open competitions for €50 I'd much sooner play Killeen Castle which I think offers more of a special occasion. That said €50 for an open compeitition is still very expensive so it's a very rare outing. As links courses go and my general lack of appreciation for them I'd still have The European Club as one of my favourites but do still think the sleeper lined bunkers detract from the course in terms of fairness and safety.

FixdePitchmark

I think that is a very fair post by Dr. Colossus.

I love links golf - as I just like the surface and I like the wind. So majorly subjective.

But even the most ardent links fans - would struggle to claim the best links courses are on the east coast. Many of them are too flat.
But, if you love links golf - you would much prefer to play them than most parkland courses - from my perspective, there are not too many great Parkland course on the east/ near Dublin either.

You certainly have to travel outside M50 and maybe Dublin. But this is not a Parkland v Links thread.

I hated the sleepers in European - but know that course would grow on me with time.

I think The Island is a good bit ahead of anything on east coast.

The rest are at a similar level.
Portmarnock Golf Club has immaculate condition - and for that alone is worth playing. It isn't miles ahead of Portmarnock Links imo, could see someone preferring The Links as a layout .

Agree that there have been times the Portmarnock Links was in poor condition.

Anyway would I gladly pay over 60 quid for any of them on the east - only ones would be The Island and European Club.

The rest you are pushing it at 50
And in reality you would want to pay 30.

Clive Bisquette

ShivasIrons wrote: »

So which rate is used to compare fees between clubs?

The €45 rate at Portmarnock Links was too low and they're right to raise it, €80-€100 is a much better reflection on the quality of the course

You for real Bud ?

You must be a shill for Portmarnock Links ..but they are right to raise it ..if they can get fools to pay for it.

Clive Bisquette

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Is it a condition, to be GUI affiliated, that you must hold an Open ?

The 3 big ones in Dublin that can attract a tourist premium are the 3 obvious ones

The Island
Portmarnock Golf Club
Royal County Dublin.

You would imagine PL has ambitions to be priced to match above levels - it is arguably a better course or very close to 2 of them - Not The Island.

I have to admire the sensible approach by Pat Ruddy - seems far more flexible and Open - I mean an Open in the middle of winter in wind below 10 degrees, on a links, at 50 quid, once a month, on a certain day - is not going to attract the local pub , rip the place apart, or be even busy.

I drive past and in some of above during winter - they are dead.

But besides winter - I don't think you are buying into the spirit of GUI affiliation if you have little or no Opens at all.
I often come across members of these clubs at Opens of other clubs.

I lived in America for a while and local golf courses had open days for certain industries - local rates and all sorts of reduced rate. This is in America - the supposed country of extreme capitalism.

Royal County Dublin !! ha ha hah....good one pal.

Clive Bisquette

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I may be biased but i think it is a fair rate. It is a top quality course with a great facility attached. The only thing missing is a long game practice area, the new short game area is as good as any links course i have seen.

In the area you are comparing it against

The Island - €150
Royal Dublin - €150
St Annes - €80
Sutton - €50

IMO only The Island is ahead of it.

J

These are completely ridiculous prices and are probably only paid by tourists on a golfing package.

But fair play to the clubs if people are fool enough to pay !

Ollieboy

If a club double's it Green Fee and still only attracts 1/2 the players it did the year before, then the club will be financially better off in relation to less upkeep for the same overall green fee value and less pressure on their time-sheet.

For that reason I think the Portmarock is 100% correct and any other club in the same market position.

I bet this time next year the green fee's collect will still be the same amount if not more.

All the top clubs in the Dublin region will be increasing Green Fee's shortly and the discount green fee's available on sites like Tee-times (a cancer on golf clubs) will be gone by the summer if not sooner.

Hoof Hearted2

Ollieboy wrote: »

If a club double's it Green Fee and still only attracts 1/2 the players it did the year before, then the club will be financially better off in relation to less upkeep for the same overall green fee value and less pressure on their time-sheet.

For that reason I think the Portmarock is 100% correct and any other club in the same market position.

I bet this time next year the green fee's collect will still be the same amount if not more.

All the top clubs in the Dublin region will be increasing Green Fee's shortly and the discount green fee's available on sites like Tee-times (a cancer on golf clubs) will be gone by the summer if not sooner.

Ollie what you say is partly true in a purely mathematical sense, although the maintenance of the course isn't any less if you have half the visitors, you still have the same amount of staff, the daily jobs carried out aren't any different if you have 50 or 100 people playing.
When you look at it in isolation it takes no account of goodwill and the cash spend of visitors in the club excluding the green fee, e.g. a soft drink and bar of chocolate in pro shop beforehand and a coffee and/or pint plus dinner afterwards in clubhouse.
It follows logic that the higher the footfall the bigger the spend (other than green fees) in the club in general.

Portmarnock links is a prime example of a privately owned course facilitating a GUI club and only looking at the cold hard figures in isolation.

Ollieboy

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Ollie what you say is partly true in a purely mathematical sense, although the maintenance of the course isn't any less if you have half the visitors, you still have the same amount of staff, the daily jobs carried out aren't any different if you have 50 or 100 people playing.
When you look at it in isolation it takes no account of goodwill and the cash spend of visitors in the club excluding the green fee, e.g. a soft drink and bar of chocolate in pro shop beforehand and a coffee and/or pint plus dinner afterwards in clubhouse.
It follows logic that the higher the footfall the bigger the spend (other than green fees) in the club in general.

Portmarnock links is a prime example of a privately owned course facilitating a GUI club and only looking at the cold hard figures in isolation.

I'm afraid I disagree but I understand the point your trying to make.

With more footfall on a course you'll need more of the following:

1. Club Staff - pro-shop etc
2. Bar Staff/Catering Staff
3. Cleaning staff
4. Cleaning materials
5. The course in general will need more repairs and it will have less time to recover with more people playing it. Also the staff will get more time to fix issues on the course with less people walking around.
6. More materials on the course.
7. More repairs to golf equipment like buggys etc.
8. Opportunity to increase subs by members to the club due to less commercial income

there is huge savings with less people playing providing the same income, in the case of portmarnock the bar is part of the hotel, so it doesn't cost them much more to have it open or close.

The problem with people is the lack of respect for clubs as a business and people wanting cheap golf which don't go hand in hand (don't get me wrong, we all want something cheap and nothing wrong with that). If we continue with the cheap golf model in this country we will damage the standard of courses available to people, but the downside to that is less people being able to afford to play golf.

Public courses and places like dear park will all become the norm soon for cheap golf and public golf like they were in the 90's/00's. My advice is to get into clubs before the entry fee's come back or go up in some clubs.

With reference to profits on other items, Green Fee's are 100% income... chocolate in pro-shop is about 30% of 1 euro. And having less people in the bar etc, means more savings on wages are possible.

Unfortunately I spend a lot of time reading golf clubs accounts and if it was possible I would do the exact same in my own club.

Hoof Hearted2

Ollieboy wrote: »

I'm afraid I disagree but I understand the point your trying to make.

With more footfall on a course you'll need more of the following:

1. Club Staff - pro-shop etc
2. Bar Staff/Catering Staff
3. Cleaning staff
4. Cleaning materials
5. The course in general will need more repairs and it will have less time to recover with more people playing it. Also the staff will get more time to fix issues on the course with less people walking around.
6. Less materials on the course.
7. Less repairs to golf equipment like buggys etc.
8. Opportunity to increase subs by members to the club due to less commercial income

there is huge savings with less people playing providing the same income, in the case of portmarnock the bar is part of the hotel, so it doesn't cost them much more to have it open or close.

The problem with people is the lack of respect for clubs as a business and people wanting cheap golf which don't go hand in hand (don't get me wrong, we all want something cheap and nothing wrong with that). If we continue with the cheap golf model in this country we will damage the standard of courses available to people, but the downside to that is less people being able to afford to play golf.

Public courses and places like dear park will all become the norm soon for cheap golf and public golf like they were in the 90's/00's. My advice is to get into clubs before the entry fee's come back or go up in some clubs.

With reference to profits on other items, Green Fee's are 100% income... chocolate in pro-shop is about 30% of 1 euro. And having less people in the bar etc, means more savings on wages are possible.

Unfortunately I spend a lot of time reading golf clubs accounts and if it was possible I would do the exact same in my own club.

We'll have to agree to disagree then, but as the auld saying goes you have to spend money to make money.
Not sure how you think green fees are 100% income and a €1 bar of chocolate is not?, unless you are selling the bar for 30c.

Ollieboy

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree then, but as the auld saying goes you have to spend money to make money.
Not sure how you think green fees are 100% income and a €1 bar of chocolate is not?, unless you are selling the bar for 30c.

A golf course is an asset and it needs to be taken care of like any asset, over using it will mean more work to keep it up to the required standard or it will get damaged. So protecting a course from being over-played is very important and you will see this in all the top courses in the world. That's why Augusta looks so great, they allow nobody to play it most of the year and if they do they charge you a lot.

When I sell a Mars bar, I pay the provider for the bar plus vat. When someone comes in and gives me €100 to play the golf course that's income i earned on my asset and not selling a 3rd party product.

It's economics I'm afraid and the principle of spending more in relation to a golf course actually happens at the start when you buy the land or build the course. You then need to plan to have the same course in business for the next 100 years and not worry about the guys wanting to over-play it for €20 now.

But yes we will agree to disagree, but it makes for interesting conversation.

Hoof Hearted2

Ollieboy wrote: »

A golf course is an asset and it needs to be taken care of like any asset, over using it will mean more work to keep it up to the required standard or it will get damaged. So protecting a course from being over-played is very important and you will see this in all the top courses in the world. That's why Augusta looks so great, they allow nobody to play it most of the year and if they do they charge you a lot.

When I sell a Mars bar, I pay the provider for the bar plus vat. When someone comes in and gives me €100 to play the golf course that's income i earned on my asset and not selling a 3rd party product.

It's economics I'm afraid and the principle of spending more in relation to a golf course actually happens at the start when you buy the land or build the course. You then need to plan to have the same course in business for the next 100 years and not worry about the guys wanting to over-play it for €20 now.

But yes we will agree to disagree, but it makes for interesting conversation.

Agreed a golf course is an asset and should be looked after, nobody is suggesting below market green fees, with modern greenkeeping practices if you have the budget, there is no such thing as over use.

Therefore the argument that double the green fee and half the traffic is better for the course than the opposite doesn't stack up, especially when you weigh in all the other potential income sources that the added traffic brings, more sales in pro shop, club restaurant/bar, buggies, trollies etc.

BTW Augusta is a terrible comparison, it lives in a fantasy bubble and afaik is the only course in the world that doesn't take green fees,


The income on your asset also has associated costs, albeit your not paying them to a third party, or does that not count at all?.


I agree it is economics, and more so in a privately owned course like Portmarnock Links, perhaps they prefer to employ the business model of hitting them hard once as opposed to a reasonable fee and gain repeat business.

Paulzx

Ollieboy wrote: »

And having less people in the bar etc,

I don't think there's a golf course in the country that's using this as part of it's business plan

Golfgraffix

I am not sure where this half the number arguement came from but it could well be argued that increasing the green fee will attract more players.

Remember that the course is hugely popular as a base for visiting Scandinavians and Germans. I have met many who were staying in the hotel but not playing the course, happens a lot on the 1st tee

Clive Bisquette

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I am not sure where this half the number arguement came from but it could well be argued that increasing the green fee will attract more players.

Remember that the course is hugely popular as a base for visiting Scandinavians and Germans. I have met many who were staying in the hotel but not playing the course, happens a lot on the 1st tee

What happens on the first Tee ?

Golfgraffix

Clive Bisquette wrote: »

What happens on the first Tee ?

You get hotel guests at the 1st tee asking about the course and wondering why they had not played it. The view from the 1st tee is quite nice, you get to see alot of the course, in the early morning it looks great.

My point was that lots of golfers base themselves there but at €45 a round were not booking as it seemed too cheap to be any good. At €100 it develops a different mindset.

The Island did this a few years ago and picked up a lot of new visitors.

bustercherry

Golfgraffix wrote: »

You get hotel guests at the 1st tee asking about the course and wondering why they had not played it. The view from the 1st tee is quite nice, you get to see alot of the course, in the early morning it looks great.

My point was that lots of golfers base themselves there but at €45 a round were not booking as it seemed too cheap to be any good. At €100 it develops a different mindset.

The Island did this a few years ago and picked up a lot of new visitors.

Yes it worked for the Island but it's in a different class altogether anyway. The links is no where near that level.

Boskowski

I played it recently and wouldn't pay 100 for it. But I'm not an experienced links player and not the biggest links fan either.

Anyway, I thought the course was in good nick and ticked all the links boxes but the overall presentation of the course but more so of the facilities weren't that of a top end course. Hotel, restaurant, bar, lockers etc looked like they had been built with enough ambition but seen a lot of traffic and not enough care since. Maybe they are trying to give it a little bit more exclusivity and I could see how that might work. The course and the location would probably support exclusivity, but the rest needs a bit of an overhaul.