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1916 commercialised
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05-11-2015 10:40am#1
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Fair point but there is an awful amount of tat produced to commemorate British historical events too. There's a lot of bandwagons being attached to the 1916 centenary and a shed load of revisionism - as I say, I'll be working on an angle too - starting with the chocolate bars if they are still available.
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1916 this, 1916 that, the heroes of 1916, etc etc etc Ad nauseam . . . . .
But the real 1916 'elephant in the room' commemoration is always left out!
The Somme
Irish lives lost on an industrial scale in The Great War that same year.
Not that it's broadcast to loudly > in the lead up to 2016...
Not broadcast too loudly? They never shut up about ww1!!!!!
They say so much about it but really say nothing.
(The 100 year anniversary of the great war was indeed a complete flop though.
They probably won't even bother with the end of it they're so useless.)
Nothing about the lies that sent those men there, the fact that the Irish weren't allowed have their own regiment like the British nations were, that the majority of those shot by the British at dawn were Irish, that home rule was cancelled by the British after the huge effort the Irish put into that imperialist conflict, that IRA men like Tom Barry fought in WW1 and then led the IRA - but you wouldn't want that...
You want people to glorify the violence of ww1 like the way the British media do, I just wish people would actually learn about it!
Irish lives lost on an industrial scale ...... for nothing. So just celebrate meaningless British imperialist violence and bloodshed, sure why not? It's not like it's ever caused problems anywhere B-) .
Your family were against it? ...... So .... I'm pretty sure your family were probably against the American revolution, the end of the British empire, Germany winning the world cup, the european union, the belfast agreement .... Lol
Why weren't they in Flanders anyway
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The somme and the 'rising' of 1916 all have one thing in common.
- They were always commercial activities.
Getting other people to kill and die for you, so one set of cronies can be replaced with another set intent on enriching themselves at the expensive of ordinary people.
Patriotism is the last refuge of users and tyrants.
My country is my family and I.
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Peregrinus wrote: »If the citizens of Dublin opposed the 1916 Rising, it wasn't because they thought it was fundamentally wrong; it was because it was inconvenient, or badly timed, or ill-judged, or unfair or shocking at a time when so many Dubliners were serving in France.
And this helps to explain why opinion about the Rising changed so rapidly in the space of just two years. It wasn't just a matter of the ham-fisted ineptitude with which the British responded to the Rising; it was also that popular distaste for the Rising wasn't that deeply-rooted, and was always tempered with some degree of respect for what the rebels were trying to do.
Firstly, thanks for your considered reply (unlike some other nut-job offerings from one or two other posters).
My perceptions of the Rising are based on direct family experience, therefore the paragraph in bold is totally at odds with what I have learned from aged members of my Dublin family!
Families on both sides would have been aghast at what the rebels did, ruining as it was the society that my normal working class family flourished in. Both my grandads would have been quite happy with Ireland gaining Home Rule whilst keeping Ireland connected to Britain, for what they would have described as "obvious reasons" like what would you break off all links with Britain? > is the picture I've always been told.
Admittedly my family were/are all C of I which may have a different bearing on my families views on the time? wedded as we were to Church and upholding the rule of law and order, no doubt with a picture of the King hanging on the living room wall?
Well I just added that picture for a laugh, although it wouldn't surprise me it was true.
We also had massive connections with the war effort in France/Belgium + the Royal Navy as did every other house in the road where my maternal grandparents lived (North Dublin).
I have several first hand stories from the rising from close aged family members, and all their recollections would point to the fact that the Rising was akin the "9/11" of their time! (My analogy).
The Rebels were the enemy within, and law and order must be withheld at any cost.
The Rebels stabbed us (and Britain) in the back while we were in crisis fighting the hun.
The Rebels should be brought to justice at any cost (not sure about executions though)?
That's three quotes that I would have been told many time over the years (or words to that effect).
All I'm doing is relaying what I know from my families perspective from the Dublin of the time.
Yes I realise that it flies in the face of Irish Nationalism and Republicanism, but that's where my family is from. A family I hasten to add who like many other Dudblit falilies, did not agree with the Rebels or their goals.0 -
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Peregrinus wrote: »From what you say, Lord Sutch, your family would have been regarded, and would probably have regarded themselves, as Unionists in Dublin at the time. And, yes, this wasn't unconnected to the fact that they were CofI. I'm not saying that all Unionists were Protestant, or all Protestants were Unionists, but there was a definite correlation. And this is hardly sruprising; Protestants benefited from a privileged position under the Union, and naturally they would see the attractions in that.
The eclipse of their perspective on the Rising is probably linked with the eclipse of Southern Unionism generally. Unionists in the North very quickly lost interest in Southern Unionists once the 1921 settlement happened, and Southern Unionists felt abandoned not just by Britain but by their fellow Irish Unionists. That, obviously, was a bit of a blow; a challenge to their very identity. The people with whom they had identified themselves were, basically, not interested in them. Some responded to this by moving to Britain and seeking to integrate there. (Edward Carson exemplifies this.) Others decided to be flexible and make the best of the situation they were in. They ceased very quickly to think of themselves as Unionists. They formed groups like the Businessmen's Party, which contested elections in 1922 and 1923 (and won a couple of seats) or they joined parties like the National League, with some more-or-less monarchist remants of the Irish Party. By the 1930s they had been absorbed into Fine Gael. But even in the 20s they never advanced a Unionist political programme; they could see that was an absolute busted flush, and there was no mileage in it. For the same reason they ceased articulating a Unionist perspective on the 1916 Rising.
In short, if the Southern Unionist perspective on the 1916 Rising is forgotten today it's largely because they forgot it, because it was of no use to them. All that remains is a few memories handed down within particular families, such as your own.
That's a good post and a good analysis.
You know your onions 0 -
Firstly, thanks for your considered reply (unlike some other nut-job offerings from one or two other posters).
My perceptions of the Rising are based on direct family experience, therefore the paragraph in bold is totally at odds with what I have learned from aged members of my Dublin family!
Families on both sides would have been aghast at what the rebels did, ruining as it was the society that my normal working class family flourished in. Both my grandads would have been quite happy with Ireland gaining Home Rule whilst keeping Ireland connected to Britain, for what they would have described as "obvious reasons" like what would you break off all links with Britain? > is the picture I've always been told.
Admittedly my family were/are all C of I which may have a different bearing on my families views on the time? wedded as we were to Church and upholding the rule of law and order, no doubt with a picture of the King hanging on the living room wall?
Well I just added that picture for a laugh, although it wouldn't surprise me it was true.
We also had massive connections with the war effort in France/Belgium + the Royal Navy as did every other house in the road where my maternal grandparents lived (North Dublin).
I have several first hand stories from the rising from close aged family members, and all their recollections would point to the fact that the Rising was akin the "9/11" of their time! (My analogy).
The Rebels were the enemy within, and law and order must be withheld at any cost.
The Rebels stabbed us (and Britain) in the back while we were in crisis fighting the hun.
The Rebels should be brought to justice at any cost (not sure about executions though)?
That's three quotes that I would have been told many time over the years (or words to that effect).
All I'm doing is relaying what I know from my families perspective from the Dublin of the time.
Yes I realise that it flies in the face of Irish Nationalism and Republicanism, but that's where my family is from. A family I hasten to add who like many other Dudblit falilies, did not agree with the Rebels or their goals.
Of course COI members would not represent anywhere near the majority opinion, and trended towards unionism (a valid ideology btw).
I'm inclined to believe most of the hostility towards 1916 was caused by the destruction not the aims.0 -
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