North ireland

Manic Moran

A chap on reddit was asking... Why "Northern Ireland" as opposed to North Ireland in a similar manner to North Korea or North Carolina. I honestly have not heard any official answer, though I have my suspicions. Is there one?

Terrontress

It's English English, isn't it? Northern is an adjective for the proper noun of Ireland. North Carolina or North Anynoun is American English. To use just the word North would require an 'of' in there.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

Because it's apart off Ireland.

Peregrinus

It's a matter of usage and preference. Australia has the state of New South Wales (established as a colony with that name in 1788, but name first given to the area by Captain Cook when he claimed the place for Britain in 1770), Western Australia (established as a the Swan River Colony in 1829; renamed as Western Australia in 1832) and South Australia (established as a colony under that name in 1834). Then you have the Northern Territory, established as a territory of South Australia in 1863 (previously it had been a part of New South Wales, but had no special name). In 1911 it was transferred to the Commonwealth of Australia to become a federal, rather than state, territory. In 1926 it was divided into two separate territories, North Australia and Central Australia, but in 1931 they were joined back together again in into a single Northern Territory.

Nobody at the time appears to have thought there was any discrepancy in the naming of these colonies and territories, so far as I know.

whisky_galore

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's a matter of usage and preference. Australia has the state of New South Wales (established as a colony with that name in 1788, but name first given to the area by Captain Cook when he claimed the place for Britain in 1770), Western Australia (established as a the Swan River Colony in 1829; renamed as Western Australia in 1832) and South Australia (established as a colony under that name in 1834). Then you have the Northern Territory, established as a territory of South Australia in 1863 (previously it had been a part of New South Wales, but had no special name). In 1911 it was transferred to the Commonwealth of Australia to become a federal, rather than state, territory. In 1926 it was divided into two separate territories, North Australia and Central Australia, but in 1931 they were joined back together again in into a single Northern Territory.

Nobody at the time appears to have thought there was any discrepancy in the naming of these colonies and territories, so far as I know.

NSW was to be called 'New Wales', then Cook revised the wording to 'New South Wales' for some reason.

The naming of the territories was very piecemeal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Australia

filbert the fox

Manic Moran wrote: »

A chap on reddit was asking... Why "Northern Ireland" as opposed to North Ireland in a similar manner to North Korea or North Carolina. I honestly have not heard any official answer, though I have my suspicions. Is there one?

Ulster, the Six Counties, the North, the wee North, Norn Irn, up there, etc...

LordSutch

Northern Ireland is a region of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

UK for short.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

it is also a part of the island of Ireland, not to be confused with the country, Ireland.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

...but then of course, we are all part of the British Isles.

LordSutch

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

...but then of course, we are all part of the British Isles.

Geographically speaking.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

not forgetting the Republic of Ireland, who are an association football team, representing the country of Ireland.

and then of course theres 'eire' meaning load, or burden, not to be confused with Éire, which is the name of the state in the native language.

tabbey

Across the water we have North Wales and South Wales, but Northern and Southern Scotland. We also have Northern England, the West Country and Southeast England, not to mention the East End and West End.

KingBrian2

To answer the original post the reason it is not called North Ireland is because the Unionists regard themselves as British not Irish. Korea be they north or south are still Koreans. East and West Germans are still Germans. North and South Vietnamese are still Vietnamese not so up there a considerable portion of the population have little or no interest in anything Irish.

Eugene Norman

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

Because it's apart off Ireland.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

To answer the original post the reason it is not called North Ireland is because the Unionists regard themselves as British not Irish. Korea be they north or south are still Koreans. East and West Germans are still Germans. North and South Vietnamese are still Vietnamese not so up there a considerable portion of the population have little or no interest in anything Irish.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

not forgetting the Republic of Ireland, who are an association football team, representing the country of Ireland.

and then of course theres 'eire' meaning load, or burden, not to be confused with ire, which is the name of the state in the native language.

LordSutch wrote: »

Northern Ireland is a region of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.UK for short.

Very remedial answering. From all of you. Especially Sutch.

The question isn't about the politics of Northern Ireland, the British Isles or the Republic of Ireland soccer team, but why we say Northern Ireland rather than North Ireland.

LordSutch

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Very remedial answering. From all of you. Especially Sutch.

The question isn't about the politics of Northern Ireland, the British Isles or the Republic of Ireland soccer team, but why we say Northern Ireland rather than North Ireland.

I presume because the part of this island we are discussing is refered to in the statute books, in law, and in international terminology as... Northern Ireland.

It's the official name written down.

Snickers Man

Could it be because the most northerly part of the island of Ireland is in "Southern" Ireland? In fact large parts of Donegal are further north than the most northerly tip of "Northern" Ireland.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

LordSutch wrote: »

I presume because the part of this island we are discussing is refered to in the statute books, in law, and in international terminology as... Northern Ireland.

It's the official name written down.

yes, but WHY?

Peregrinus

LordSutch wrote: »

I presume because the part of this island we are discussing is refered to in the statute books, in law, and in international terminology as... Northern Ireland.

It's the official name written down.

Yes, but why? The official name could just as easily have been "North Ireland". In fact they chose "Northern Ireland". Was there some reason for this choice, or was it a mere whim, a caprice?

If we're looking at official usage, there was some modest precedent for "North" rather than "Northern". The proclamations issued by James VI & I after the union of the crowns in 1603 regularly used "North Britain" and "South Britain" for Scotland and England (inc. Wales) respectively. And on the Act of Union in 1707, the Royal Regiment of Scots Dragoons was renamed the Royal North British Dragoons.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

there have been official proposals to change the name of Northern Ireland to Ulster

Peregrinus

whisky_galore wrote: »

NSW was to be called 'New Wales', then Cook revised the wording to 'New South Wales' for some reason.

Not sure where this is coming from. My understanding is that Cook named the place "New South Wales" when he discovered it, because it reminded him of South Wales. I don't see how there could have been any earlier proposal to call the place "New Wales"; if they only had a hazy idea that the place might or might not be there, how could they have any firm idea about whether it looked like South Wales or just a bit like Wales in general?

Eugene Norman

LordSutch wrote: »

I presume because the part of this island we are discussing is refered to in the statute books, in law, and in international terminology as... Northern Ireland.

It's the official name written down.

We're wondering why.

whisky_galore

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not sure where this is coming from. My understanding is that Cook named the place "New South Wales" when he discovered it, because it reminded him of South Wales. I don't see how there could have been any earlier proposal to call the place "New Wales"; if they only had a hazy idea that the place might or might not be there, how could they have any firm idea about whether it looked like South Wales or just a bit like Wales in general?

He added the 'South' to it before submitting it to the Admiralty.

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/cook/james/c77j/preface.html


The name, “New South Wales,” was not bestowed without much consideration, and apparently at one stage New Wales was the appellation fixed upon, for in Mr. Corner’s copy it is so called throughout, whereas the Admiralty copy has “New South Wales.”

tac foley

It was called New South Wales because it was in the Southern hemisphere.

As for people in Northern Ireland not considering themselves to be Irish, well, THAT is a lot of tosh. Our opposite neighbours are from Strabane [him] and Lisburn [her] and they consider themselves to be as Irish as anybody born south of the border - or west, in the case of Derry and Donegal. They don't go home every few months to Northern Ireland, they go back over to Ireland, full stop.

They are not imperialists, colonialists, nationalists, unionists or republicans, just Irish.

tac

filbert the fox

Snickers Man wrote: »

Could it be because the most northerly part of the island of Ireland is in "Southern" Ireland? In fact large parts of Donegal are further north than the most northerly tip of "Northern" Ireland.

I'm always puzzling my friends with the question

"what island's most northerly point is in the south?"

Good one!