Worth paying for a reflow/rework

mordeith

The GPU in my laptop is shot. The repair ship are looking to try a reflow/rework.
Is there any point to this? The cost is about half of what I'd get for selling the laptop second hand (if it was working that is). They have said there is no guarantee that it'll work.

jca

If its that crowd in Cork keep well away from them they're a shower of Cowboys. They did my aldi bought medion and it only lasted a few weeks, I returned it to them and I never saw my laptop again, they tried to blame Fastway but could never give me the tracking number. I eventually got a POS Packard Bell laptop as a replacement after getting dogs abuse on the phone and by e-mail. I only got the replacement laptop after my brother in law who's a large guy, paid them a visit accompanied by a few of his mates....

Cuddlesworth

Usually I would say no. But you don't really give any specifics, like laptop age, cost to fix, price to sell etc

jca

Sorry about the earlier rant but I wouldn't bother.

beauf

If this is a Nvidia 8600 79xx or 8400, 8600. Depends do you mean reflow or reball. These chips have a inherent flaw that can't be fixed permanently. So re-flowing it yourself, will last the same length of time as a repair shop doing it. But it takes a bit of effort to do it yourself. What makes it last longer is not using it for anything intensive, like games etc. If it gets light use it will last longer. I've fixed my 79xx about 4 times. But at some point it will stop working completely. Which is why you can't guarantee it can be fixed. Takes me about an hour to dismantle the laptop, reflow the gpu and then put it all back together. Lasts about a year each time for me. If your GPU is on the motherboard it may take longer. Some don't need to be dismantled.

beauf

You might find the same model with a broken screen or such. Which you could swap your screen too, and other parts.

Assuming it is definately the GPU at fault, could be something else. If you need a reflow it generally shows as garbled or corrupt screen.

http://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/WindowsXpgraphiccardfix.jpg
http://s474.photobucket.com/user/ginhead_002/media/DSC02263.jpg.html

A blank screen might be something else.

Joeface

Reflow as the call it doesn't really work that well , Its not really reflowing the solder . . I was doing that to my old laptop (Packard Bell Ares or something ) it will last a few months again and the go . I was using an IR lamp and even putting some nice expensive flux in around the BGA but the it only helps slightly.

Better solution is REBALL where the remove the BGA , clean it up and put new solder balls back on and replace the device.
I was considering using a Service in the UK I found on ebay for it but got a new laptop instead.

(http://www.ebay.ie/usr/bga.service?_trksid=p2047675.l2559). I had contacted them and the reviews seem pretty good and I like the verified removed device images they said they would provide.

mordeith

Thanks for all the replies folks. Below is a list of the symptoms. I posted in the laptop forum before dropping the machine in for diagnosis. Laptop is a Dell XPS Studio. It's about 4 years old and online I've seen em go second hand for about €300. The repair quote is €165

Dell XPS Studio not booting, blank screen

---

Wondering if anyone could shed light on this before I send it off to a repair shop.
Turned on my Dell laptop the other day. All lights on the keyboard came on and stayed on. Screen stayed blank.
Tried every power reset option I could locate on the net, no change.
Replaced the CMOS battery, no change.
Re-applied thermal past to CPU and GPU, no change.
Took out RAM and re-inserted, one at a time, no change.
The weird thing is I had installed two 4GB sticks a while back with no issue. For the sake of it I put back in the two old 2GB sticks, again no change. However when I left one of the 2GB sticks in, I got 6 beeps followed by the Windows sound. I know the HDD is fine as I put it into a caddy and it worked fine on another laptop. From what I can gather the 6 beeps indicates a GPU failure. However I was wondering why one stick of 2GB ram would at least let Windows boot (even if I can't see it) but no other combination woul?
PS I also tried hooking the laptop up to TV via HDMI and an external monitor via VGA and no luck there either.

mordeith

jca wrote: »

If its that crowd in Cork keep well away from them they're a shower of Cowboys. They did my aldi bought medion and it only lasted a few weeks, I returned it to them and I never saw my laptop again, they tried to blame Fastway but could never give me the tracking number. I eventually got a POS Packard Bell laptop as a replacement after getting dogs abuse on the phone and by e-mail. I only got the replacement laptop after my brother in law who's a large guy, paid them a visit accompanied by a few of his mates....

Well, there's a few repair shops in Cork, so I'm not sure which one you had the problem with. The guys I gave it to I've used once before and they were pretty straight up.

Joeface

Dell 6 beeps = Video BIOS Test Failure Video card failure

mordeith

Joeface wrote: »

Dell 6 beeps = Video BIOS Test Failure Video card failure

Hardly worth the repair fee if no guarantee of success?

Ant695

I would say having looked at reflowing on youtube because I had never heard of it before would you not just try it yourself since you are comfortable enough with replacing thermal paste etc... and save the €165. I mean you could try and it doesn't work and your in the same position as you're in now but you could spend that much money and still have it not work. If it was me I'd just have a go myself.

mordeith

Ant695 wrote: »

I would say having looked at reflowing on youtube because I had never heard of it before would you not just try it yourself since you are comfortable enough with replacing thermal paste etc... and save the €165. I mean you could try and it doesn't work and your in the same position as you're in now but you could spend that much money and still have it not work. If it was me I'd just have a go myself.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. Might just have a crack off it myself.

beauf

Joeface wrote: »

Reflow as the call it doesn't really work that well , Its not really reflowing the solder . . I was doing that to my old laptop (Packard Bell Ares or something ) it will last a few months again and the go . I was using an IR lamp and even putting some nice expensive flux in around the BGA but the it only helps slightly.

Better solution is REBALL where the remove the BGA , clean it up and put new solder balls back on and replace the device.
I was considering using a Service in the UK I found on ebay for it but got a new laptop instead.....

The reball fixes a different problem than the reflow. Cracked solder balls. Which is a problem, in a smaller % of cases. Might be more common on other chips and consoles.

But the main issue with faulty (laptop) Nvidia chips is bad eutectic bumps in the actual substrate of the chip. Which is a manufacturing fault. It can't be fixed permanently. Re-balling doesn't fix this. Reflow can fix it, temporarily. For me thats about a year.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/microsoft/jasper/layers.jpg

You'll find all laptops switched to different GPU's chipsets, after this fault was found.

Of course this may not be the issue here.

mordeith

beauf wrote: »

The reball fixes a different problem than the reflow. Cracked solder balls. Which is a problem, in a smaller % of cases. Might be more common on other chips and consoles.

But the main issue with faulty (laptop) Nvidia chips is bad eutectic bumps in the actual substrate of the chip. Which is a manufacturing fault. It can't be fixed permanently. Re-balling doesn't fix this. Reflow can fix it, temporarily. For me thats about a year.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/microsoft/jasper/layers.jpg

You'll find all laptops switched to different GPU's chipsets, after this fault was found.

Of course this may not be the issue here.

Well the GPU in this case is an ATI Radeon 565v

Not sure if it suffers from the same issues you mention above but I suppose all chips have certain flaws

beauf

Ok if its a ATI Radeon 565v then forget all I said about Nvidia, it doesn't apply here.

I have no idea if Radeons can be fixed. A quick Google seems to suggest re-balling not re-flow can fix these.

Be useful if you gave the Laptop model number at the start.

ED E

With that spec I definitely wouldn't spend €160 at a possible repair.

I've done home reflows 3x on 8800 Series(Green team). Its not too hard, and can give you an extra year of use for a few minutes with a screwdriver.

beauf

if you don't want to buy a new machine 160 goes a long way to a 2nd hand laptop with more modern features.

mordeith

ED E wrote: »

With that spec I definitely wouldn't spend €160 at a possible repair.

I've done home reflows 3x on 8800 Series(Green team). Its not too hard, and can give you an extra year of use for a few minutes with a screwdriver.

I'm gonna try and get a loan of a heat gun and give it a belt that way. I've read about toxins adhering to the oven if you bake it. Not sure the missus would be too happy about that

beauf

From experience don't do it in the house. It stinks something awful when you do it. I do it in the shed with a halogen oven, that I don't use for cooking. But I can remove my gpu and it fits in the oven. if its on the motherboard, your options are more limited.

mordeith

beauf wrote: »

From experience don't do it in the house. It stinks something awful when you do it. I do it in the shed with a halogen oven, that I don't use for cooking. But I can remove my gpu and it fits in the oven. if its on the motherboard, your options are more limited.

It's on the mobo. From reading, I can cover the everything with tin foil and just expose the GPU. A blast of 40-50 secs with the heat gun (can't remember the temp offhand). Leave to cool for 20 mins and give it a try.

ED E

I used an oven. 200*C, 8 minutes in the middle shelf, mounted on tinfoil so no contact points. After 8 mins open oven door and turn off but dont remove as to SLOWLY cool it. Worked a treat.

So far nobody in the gaff has suffered blood toxicity so I assume we're safe enough :pac:

kodistar

Hi there,

Not in million years it will only last 6 months and will break i know cause i have fixed plenty of them its a short fix but will last 6 months better off buying new one.hope i helped.

mordeith

For anyone interested, I used a Black and Decker heat gun on low setting (it only has two) for 90 secs. Re-applied thermal paste. Turned laptop on and bingo, back in action. No sure how long it'll last but everything is a bonus from this point.
Thanks to previous posters for advice

beauf

Great. I would try reduce graphic intensive stuff if you can it will make the repair lost longer.

mordeith

For anyone interested the GPU failed again about a month and a half after reflowing with a heat gun. I've repeated the process and its working again but this will be the last time I do it (the heat has melted one of the USB sockets outer casing).
While I don't expect it to last any longer than the last time, it at least has given me time to clear my credit card (a lot on it in the build up to Christmas) so I can look at replacements now.

Riesen_Meal

mordeith wrote: »

For anyone interested the GPU failed again about a month and a half after reflowing with a heat gun. I've repeated the process and its working again but this will be the last time I do it (the heat has melted one of the USB sockets outer casing).
While I don't expect it to last any longer than the last time, it at least has given me time to clear my credit card (a lot on it in the build up to Christmas) so I can look at replacements now.

I know its a nightmare but its probably the best time something like this can happen you - sales are on and you should hopefully grab a bargain!