Tenants rent allowance suspended

fowlersleftpeg

I have a tenant in a house for over 5 years now and she is a single mother of 2 in receipt of rent allowance. On occasion over the years the rent has been late (by up to 2 weeks sometimes) and sometimes she has contacted me to let me know 'the social welfare didnt lodge the money this month and she'll pay double next month'
Last month was one of these occasions and today she informs me that she needs to provide an updated lease to the DSP as her rent allowance is currently suspended.

Having covered the rent myself last month on the provision that I would get 2 months this month (due today) as this has happened before as mentioned, any advice on what I can do to get the 2 months rent ? Tried calling the Social Welfare office but no answer all day today and the phone just rings out.
Im now owed 2 months rent and if the tenant doesnt get the rent allowance she isnt in a position to pay anything at all.
I have obligations to pay the mortgage on the property but should the Social Welfare not have informed me as a PRTB registered landlord of the property that the tenants allowances were in suspension ?
Do I have any recourse in this situation at all ? I cant afford to cover a 2nd months rent on the tenants behalf. Why should i be caused to default on the mortgage due to the social welfare / tenant issue ?

Any advice appreciated !

fussyonion

Start eviction proceedings.
It's hardly your fault the Social Welfare have suspended the Rent Allowance so why should you be out of pocket?

fowlersleftpeg

Think im in full agreement with you fussyonion ! My only concern now is time of year given she has 2 young kids. I may be too soft for my own good....

whippet

i'd be more concerned as to why her payments have been suspended .. if at all?

Unfortunately if you can't suck up the arrears you'll have to commence eviction proceedings ... but this will penalise you financially as you won't get paid during the notice period, or during the period where the tenant will probably be advised by the PRTB to overhold and then any pending legal fees to progress the eviction.

fussyonion

fowlersleftpeg wrote: »

Think im in full agreement with you fussyonion ! My only concern now is time of year given she has 2 young kids. I may be too soft for my own good....

You are and you aren't.
I understand you don't want her to be out on the streets but you must remember; YOU have had to pay HER rent because her RA was late.

The HSE have stopped her RA for some reason; it could be that she didn't return a specific form or something in her circumstances changed, but either way, it's something she has done that has resulted in this happening.

You shouldn't be the loser in this situation; you'd have people snapping at your heels to rent your property, given the situation we are in at the moment.
As harsh as this sounds, start eviction proceedings and get your property back on the market to be let out as soon as possible.

Unfortunately and as mean as this sounds, her living situation is of no concern of yours and she's hardly innocent in all this.

Surely she doesn't think you're just going to sit back and accept this situation?

Th3B1tcH

As a RA tennent myself I totally agree with fussyonion even if SW suspended payment (which is usally down to a form not filled out or they not entitled anymore) 2months is plenty time sort a mistake, also it doesnt excuse the fact they didnt pay their own share, SW do not pay full rent its people like this give all RA tenents a bad name and stop LL's renting to good ones that pay on time and keep property in good condition

January

BTW OP, did she give you forms this time around? Usually landlord has to re sign forms when there's a rent review.

fussyonion

MadDog76 wrote: »

A single mother to two children ......... yep, just kick her out ......... who needs compassion and understanding these days what with the high demand/low supply of rental properties ......... gotta strike while the iron's hot!! :rolleyes:

Op, it might be mutually beneficial (financially as well as morally) to both yourself and your long-term tenant to try get to the bottom of why her RA has been stopped with a goal of getting her (and yourself) back on track rent-wise as soon as possible .......... or just evict her, whatever.

The OP is under no obligation to sort this woman's mess out.
As The B1tch said, it's tenants like the one in the OP's house that give RA tenants a bad name.
This woman has been messing the LL about and he/she is just expected to say "Ah sure it's alright".?
No.
She's had TWO months to sort this out.

godtabh

MadDog76 wrote: »

A single mother to two children ......... yep, just kick her out ......... who needs compassion and understanding these days what with the high demand/low supply of rental properties ......... gotta strike while the iron's hot!! :rolleyes:

Op, it might be mutually beneficial (financially as well as morally) to both yourself and your long-term tenant to try get to the bottom of why her RA has been stopped with a goal of getting her (and yourself) back on track rent-wise as soon as possible .......... or just evict her, whatever.

What has morally got to do with it? If anything it goes both ways

fussyonion

MadDog, the LL is in the dark as to what's happening.
He has had no rent and it doesn't look as if anything is happening in that regard.

It's the tenant's responsibility, (whether they're working and paying the rent themselves or receiving Rent Allowance,) to ensure the LL gets his rent on time every month.
The LL has had to pay the bloody rent himself because of this.
And this has happened before apparently.

Why should the LL even want to continue with this tenancy if this is what happens?

Dubl07

The landlord could be out on the street himself in due course if he doesn't look after his mortgage payments. It's a tough situation but it's not month 1.

Gmaximum

OP you should start eviction procedures. The reality of the situation is that there is plenty of time during the process for the tenant to sort out whatever the problem is. Assuming it does get sorted you can choose not to complete the process

murphaph

MadDog76 wrote: »

I don't personally choose when I should and should not be morally responsible in life ........... it's kind of a 24/7 thing for me in all aspects of my life .......... but I suppose when it comes to money then f*ck right or wrong is the way to go ........ good man yourself.

Why don't you ask the OP for his IBAN and you can make your own personal donation to the single mother and two kids fund?

newacc2015

fowlersleftpeg wrote: »

Think im in full agreement with you fussyonion ! My only concern now is time of year given she has 2 young kids. I may be too soft for my own good....

Im sorry but this might sound a bit mean. You are a landlord to make money. Not to provide social housing that the Government is incapable of doing. As I said to my parents who are Landlords, we arent threshold.If someone isnt paying, they have to go

IMO start the eviction. It might get social welfare off their arse and pay her rent(she might have just pocketed it this month). But you need to be precise with the eviction. Even get the days wrong and the eviction process has to start again ie 28 days notice actually starts the following day eg 28 days serviced on the first of October is not the 28 th of October, but the 29th

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/information-on-terminating-a-tenancy-for-rent-arrears

MadDog76

fussyonion wrote: »

MadDog, the LL is in the dark as to what's happening.
He has had no rent and it doesn't look as if anything is happening in that regard.

It's the tenant's responsibility, (whether they're working and paying the rent themselves or receiving Rent Allowance,) to ensure the LL gets his rent on time every month.
The LL has had to pay the bloody rent himself because of this.
And this has happened before apparently.

Why should the LL even want to continue with this tenancy if this is what happens?

From a purely financial point of view it would be beneficial to the LL to find out if it's just a case of a t not being crossed and a dot not being put in the right place on some form that can be rectified quite easily and get the rent (money) flowing again as soon as possible rather than the eviction process meaning the LL gets zero money during this lengthy process with no chance of recouping any financial loss whatsoever ........... in this case it would be better (for the LL) to ask questions before hitting.

I'm speaking as a former LL, former tenant in the private rental market, former ASH scheme tenant and current home-owner ........ I've been lucky in life, this girl obviously hasn't been ........ if it transpires that it is all her own fault that she's in this mess then by all means kick her out and let Social Services protect (hopefully) her children ........ I'm no softie but I like to give people the benefit of doubt in life.

beauf

Balance 5yrs of rent vs 2 months. If there's been no real trouble before now. I wouldn't be rushing to replace a reliable tenant. Unless its massively under the market rent. You issue official warnings etc as it takes along time.

MadDog76

Dubl07 wrote: »

The landlord could be out on the street himself in due course if he doesn't look after his mortgage payments. It's a tough situation but it's not month 1.

Exactly the reason why the LL should be more concerned with sorting out his current Tenant rather trying to evict her ......... financially it would be quicker to get her back on track than it will be to evict her.

handlemaster

Two months is to long. Sent the 15 notice of non payment and start eviction process. . You will get no thanks from anybody been a dormat. If anything it will get her to sort it out as she should have done

Wanderer78

unfortunately it looks like eviction is your only option here. best of luck op

MadDog76

MadDog76 wrote: »

I don't personally choose when I should and should not be morally responsible in life ........... it's kind of a 24/7 thing for me in all aspects of my life .......... but I suppose when it comes to money then f*ck right or wrong is the way to go ........ good man yourself.

At the end of the day and while it sounds cruel, the op is operating a business to make money (or at least try to cover his mortgage). Should a shop hand out a free trolly for groceries to every one with a story about not being able to afford them or the esb write off a massive esb Bill?

He needs to at least let her know how serious this is by issuing notice of arrears etc and immediately find out why she has had her RA stopped. It's not his job to look after her (once he meets the requirements for a LL under tenancy laws). Who is going to help out the op if he falls into mortgage arrears possibly ruining his credit rating for the future etc?

Even if they were evicted don't pretend they will end up on the street as they wont, they will most likely end up in a hotel room and if this is due to having the RA stopped its no one fault but the persons own.

beauf

Finley Bitter Nunnery wrote: »

At the end of the day and while it sounds cruel, the op is operating a business to make money...

A business decision is to not under value a trouble free client of 5yrs. You might end up replacing them with one that's a lot worse.

njs030

Its very unlikely her ra has been stopped for 2 months, especially as it's paid weekly. As previously said she either hasn't sent back a form or something else has changed. Either way she should be at least paying her share of it to op.

Op I would suggest ringing sw first thing on Monday to find out what the story is, they can't give details but they can tell you of its been suspended.
Also if it has been suspended you should ask for it to be paid directly to you in future so all arrears will be paid to you and you're guaranteed a weekly payment. The tenant can pay their share directly.

fussyonion

And also OP, this is another perfectly valid reason for you to perhaps avoid accepting RA in future.

Not all RA tenants are like this; I certainly wasn't when I was receiving it (my rent was paid on time every month, no matter what), but this is the kind of hassle you're facing.

njs030

fussyonion wrote: »

And also OP, this is another perfectly valid reason for you to perhaps avoid accepting RA in future.

Not all RA tenants are like this; I certainly wasn't when I was receiving it (my rent was paid on time every month, no matter what), but this is the kind of hassle you're facing.

Very unfair. I've been getting rent allowance for a while (I'm a carer) and the odd time there has been a problem I've paid the full rent myself. Plenty of people do that.

DoctorBoo

fussyonion wrote:

Not all RA tenants are like this; I certainly wasn't when I was receiving it (my rent was paid on time every month, no matter what), but this is the kind of hassle you're facing.

Unfortunately as a former recipient of RA, I have to say my experience was quite different to yours. My RA was stopped on two occasions (through no fault of my own) and without receiving any advance notice from the authorities. On one occasion, despite my chasing them constantly, it took over two months to return to payment. It was extremely stressful.
I was an excellent tenant, who kept the place very well. My landlord was patient and the issue was eventually sorted. I continued to pay my portion of rent throughout.
These things can happen OP. If the tenant is otherwise a good tenant, I think you should be patient for now.

fussyonion

notjustsweet wrote: »

Very unfair. I've been getting rent allowance for a while (I'm a carer) and the odd time there has been a problem I've paid the full rent myself. Plenty of people do that.

Read my comment properly.
I didn't say everyone does it; but some do and hearing the OP's experience is enough to put any LL off.

Are you saying if you were a LL, you'd happily take in another RA tenant based on your experience?

fussyonion

DoctorBoo wrote: »

Unfortunately as a former recipient of RA, I have to say my experience was quite different to yours. My RA was stopped on two occasions (through no fault of my own) and without receiving any advance notice from the authorities. On one occasion, despite my chasing them constantly, it took over two months to return to payment. It was extremely stressful.
I was an excellent tenant, who kept the place very well. My landlord was patient and the issue was eventually sorted. I continued to pay my portion of rent throughout.
These things can happen OP. If the tenant is otherwise a good tenant, I think you should be patient for now.

You're missing the point.
Why should the LL be out of pocket?

He might have a mortgage to pay and other things to keep on top of.
Why should he be patient and sit back and wait?
Do you think the LL is just sitting there in his house with piles of money beside him?

This whole "Be patient" attitude is wrong.
The RA was stopped for some reason; it very likely IS the tenant's fault so the responsibility is on the tenant to sort it out.

njs030

fussyonion wrote: »

Read my comment properly.
I didn't say everyone does it; but some do and hearing the OP's experience is enough to put any LL off.

Are you saying if you were a LL, you'd happily take in another RA tenant based on your experience?

I'm aware you didn't say everybody but you did say he should think carefully about taking in another ra tenant or words to that effect.

Yes I would if the tenant was prepared to cover any problems themselves which is what I do. I can't see any reason for my landlord to be out of pocket!

DoctorBoo

fussyonion wrote:

This whole "Be patient" attitude is wrong. The RA was stopped for some reason; it very likely IS the tenant's fault so the responsibility is on the tenant to sort it out.

You have no idea why the RA was stopped, so you are not in a position to say it is likely the tenant's fault.
I imagine the tenant is attempting to sort it out, but unfortunately some things take time.
My advice to the OP stands; although it is inconvenient for the LL at this point, the most sensible course of action is to wait and see if a solution can be found soon. If there is no resolution forthcoming, then I agree some action will have to be taken.

CollyFlower

Don't go starting the evicting process yet,as others have said that is a long process.. Did she get you to sign the documents for the rent review?

MadDog76

fussyonion wrote: »

And also OP, this is another perfectly valid reason for you to perhaps avoid accepting RA in future.

Not all RA tenants are like this; I certainly wasn't when I was receiving it (my rent was paid on time every month, no matter what), but this is the kind of hassle you're facing.

Generalise much?

Do you receive any Welfare Benefits??
If so, would you like to be generalised and judged because of it??

Afterall, there a lot of people who receive Benefits who would be looked down upon by the rest of society because of the way they behave, dress, talk etc. ......... how would you feel about being lumped in there with them??

There lots of good tenants and there are lots of bad tenants ........... some of them rent privately and some of them receive RA.

ted1

I'd an ex tenant pull that trick , she then said she had to move out . 15 months later I had a call from the SW, transpired she moved back to her parents living rent free and cashing in the chequered from the SW for herself

runawaybishop

MadDog76 wrote: »

Generalise much?

Do you receive any Welfare Benefits??
If so, would you like to be generalised and judged because of it??

Afterall, there a lot of people who receive Benefits who would be looked down upon by the rest of society because of the way they behave, dress, talk etc. ......... how would you feel about being lumped in there with them??

There lots of good tenants and there are lots of bad tenants ........... some of them rent privately and some of them receive RA.

And 100% of RA tenants do not control the rent money. That's not generalising, its a fact. This is not the landlords fault, not his problem and not his responsibility. If you want to go moralising go do it to the people who failed to provide proper social housing.
This has happened previously to this tenant, it could easily happen again. ****ty for the tenant, ****ty for the OP, difference is the tenant isn't risking a huge financial obligation.

beyondbelief67

It could also be that they are changing her rent allowance to hap, it's usually meant to go seamlessly but sometimes there are problems like this.
But normally the land lord would of received new forms to fill in, it could be because they didn't receive them that they have stopped her payment.
I hope this is the reason, as I can think of no reason why a tenant who has been so reliable for 5 years would suddenly change now especially when it's so difficult finding housing that excepts hap/rent allowance.

CollyFlower

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

It could also be that they are changing her rent allowance to hap, it's usually meant to go seamlessly but sometimes there are problems like this.
But normally the land lord would of received new forms to fill in, it could be because they didn't receive them that they have stopped her payment.
I hope this is the reason, as I can think of no reason why a tenant who has been so reliable for 5 years would suddenly change nowespecially when it's so difficult finding housing that excepts hap/rent allowance.

I can but I won't say on here.

MadDog76

CollyFlower wrote: »

I can but I won't say on here.

You'd only be guessing anyway ...........

CollyFlower

MadDog76 wrote: »

You'd only be guessing anyway ...........

True, as are others giving feedback.

beauf

CollyFlower wrote: »

Don't go starting the evicting process yet,as others have said that is a long process.. Did she get you to sign the documents for the rent review?

There's no reason not to start the process of formal warning etc. The fact its long process is every reason to start immediately. If it gets sorted Or if they make a payment the process just gets reset.

That's not to say you should write off the tenant just yet. They should still be paying their share of the rent anyway. Even if there is shortfall. If they are paying nothing it might mean they have other plans here.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

CollyFlower

JT26 wrote: »

Why not

Because it wouldn't be very acceptable on here and would probably get me a warning or a ban, some opinions are not going to be popular with everyone....... I'd also like to know if the tenent is paying her part of the rent, if she's not that will tell you a lot.

quadrifoglio verde

MadDog76 wrote: »

And plenty of RA tenants have their money suspended because of some f*ck up by a dopey Civil Servant which is not the RA tenant's fault ...... also a fact but let's just ignore facts for now and brand all RA tenants as the "same" shall we? :rolleyes:

Which is one of the reasons landlords are so reluctant to take tenants on ra.
Whether it's the tenants fault or the social welfares fault, it certainly isn't the landlords.

Private tenant leaves you out of pocket, you can drag him through the courts, ra tenant leaves you out of pocket, there's no point as once you've obtained an order for lost rent, the person on RA isn't going to have any money anyway.

It isn't the landlords problem that the system is broken and he shouldn't risk leaving himself out of pocket because of a broken system

beauf

Kinda irrelevant if the OP has this tenant for 5yrs.

murphaph

notjustsweet wrote: »

I'm aware you didn't say everybody but you did say he should think carefully about taking in another ra tenant or words to that effect.

And rightly so. The payments can and do stop randomly and it doesn't matter that sometimes it's completely the fault of the department. That's reason enough not to accept RS tenants.

jlm29

"I have a tenant in a house for over 5 years now and she is a single mother of 2 in receipt of rent allowance. On occasion over the years the rent has been late (by up to 2 weeks sometimes) and sometimes she has contacted me to let me know 'the social welfare didnt lodge the money this month and she'll pay double next month'
Last month was one of these occasions"

I'm not quite sure why there's so many people adamant he should go out of his way not to lose such a wonderful tenant. She sounds like a bit of a disaster. I'm not saying she deserves to be homeless, but she seems to have a great landlord, who she totally undervalues.

4ensic15

Don't pay, don't stay. End of.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

beauf wrote: »

Kinda irrelevant if the OP has this tenant for 5yrs.

Who's regularly skipped months of paying rent. If she can't pay one months rent what makes you think she's going to be able to pay a lump sum for three months? She's paying nothing. And mentions for the first time that there's a problem with SW the day the two rents are due

Moonbeam

fowlersleftpeg wrote: »

I have a tenant in a house for over 5 years now and she is a single mother of 2 in receipt of rent allowance. On occasion over the years the rent has been late (by up to 2 weeks sometimes) and sometimes she has contacted me to let me know 'the social welfare didnt lodge the money this month and she'll pay double next month'
Last month was one of these occasions and today she informs me that she needs to provide an updated lease to the DSP as her rent allowance is currently suspended.

Having covered the rent myself last month on the provision that I would get 2 months this month (due today) as this has happened before as mentioned, any advice on what I can do to get the 2 months rent ? Tried calling the Social Welfare office but no answer all day today and the phone just rings out.
Im now owed 2 months rent and if the tenant doesnt get the rent allowance she isnt in a position to pay anything at all.
I have obligations to pay the mortgage on the property but should the Social Welfare not have informed me as a PRTB registered landlord of the property that the tenants allowances were in suspension ?
Do I have any recourse in this situation at all ? I cant afford to cover a 2nd months rent on the tenants behalf. Why should i be caused to default on the mortgage due to the social welfare / tenant issue ?

Any advice appreciated !

I had to issue an eviction notice to a tenant ,they moved out before the date and didn't tell me .when their rent allowance was lodged it was a tiny amount and they had already started paying the rent on her new place . I just had to deal with it

athtrasna

Mod note

Can we ease off on the RA bashing and the speculation about the tenant's situation please. The OP is looking for advice on how to handle the difficult situation they are now in.

Thanks

Lantus

what if the OP has three young children and they will have to be taken out of cr che due to lack of funds or not get xmas presents due to the selfish actions of this women?

FAILSAFE 00

Talk to the tenants community welfare officer. They should tell you what you need, possibly a copy of the lease.

I have had this freeze happen more than once when rent allowance recipients fail to give the letter that the CWO sends them asking for a copy of the lease.

I wouldn't initiate any eviction proceedings unless it's indicated that the rent allowance will no longer be paid to the tenant. If this is the case remember to give adequate notice since this tenant has been there for over 5 years.

Personally I wouldn't jump the gun yet. If the tenant decides to stay put and the rent remains unpaid they could be there for 1yr plus before being legally evicted.

Talk to their CWO.

Dubl07

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Talk to the tenants community welfare officer. They should tell you what you need, possibly a copy of the lease.

I have had this freeze happen more than once when rent allowance recipients fail to provide the letter the CWO sends or gives them.

I wouldn't initiate any eviction proceedings unless it's indicated that the rent allowance will no longer be paid to the tenant. If this is the case remember to give adequate notice since this tenant has been there for 5 years.

Personally I wouldn't jump the gun yet. If the tenant decides to stay put and the rent remains unpaid they could be there for 1yr plus before being legally evicted.

Talk to their CWO.

Appalling. So an eviction notice as a shot across the bows won't put the non-paying tenant out of the OP's property for 12 months. The sooner he puts it in motion the less likely he'll be on the streets himself for non-payment of his own bills.