Bus lane penalty fine in Belfast

gent9662 · 30-10-2015 10:40am #1

Hey folks,

Recently I went to Belfast from Dublin in the car Dublin registration. I wasn't aware of the bus lane cameras they now have in place and got a £45 fine sent to my address in Galway. I was in the bus lane in order to turn left into a 1 way street.

I appealed it on the basis that I was following the car in front (which was a ROI reg also), long story short, my appeal was declined on the basis that "I should have known". Needless to say the sat nav brought me along this route which had recently been changed to bus lane. In my opinion it's a total scam as they have little or no warning notices up.

Not only this but a week after I did the same thing as I thought nothing of it. Similar to what we do in the South when making a left turn (for example like getting onto the M50 at Liffey Valley).

So couple of things spring to mind:

1. How did they get my address? I take it it's from the Driver Vehicle Services in Republic

2. What happens if I ignore this fine? Should I?

As an update I just rang my local Garda station and they said it was very harsh as the law says in ROI you can enter the top of a bus lane if making a left turn.

Thanks guys for help.

markpb · 30-10-2015 11:19am

dclane wrote:

As an update I just rang my local Garda station and they said it was very harsh as the law says in ROI you can enter the top of a bus lane if making a left turn.

Typical AGS response. That's not true at all. You can only move into lane 1 when the bus lane ends.

keithclancy · 30-10-2015 11:48am

dclane wrote: »

I appealed it on the basis that I was following the car in front (which was a ROI)

I can hear my Granny now ... "And if Jimmy jumped off the Cliff you would as well would you ?" :pac:

Zcott · 30-10-2015 11:55am

It is a scam alright, I was caught a few months back for the same thing. Honestly, the best option is probably just to pay it and be done with it.

biko · 30-10-2015 12:13pm

Pay up and make sure to be a bit more careful next time you're up there.

07Lapierre · 30-10-2015 1:30pm

"When in Rome do as the Romans do"... In short pay it, learn from it.

savagethegoat · 31-10-2015 9:45pm

should have returned the letter unknown or ignored it. Appealing just confirmed who you are. If you get caught by ANPR in the north the wost that will be happening is you making a credit card payment at the roadside. (yes, they can do that now for foreign drivers)

Scottie99 · 01-11-2015 6:18pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

should have returned the letter unknown or ignored it. Appealing just confirmed who you are. If you get caught by ANPR in the north the wost that will be happening is you making a credit card payment at the roadside. (yes, they can do that now for foreign drivers)

Or say when pulled over, "I've just bought it!"
I wouldn't pay..

keithclancy · 01-11-2015 7:01pm

Scottie99 wrote: »

Or say when pulled over, "I've just bought it!"
I wouldn't pay..

Good luck with lying to the PSNI, also they are not as friendly as your run of the mill Garda.

slimjimmc · 01-11-2015 8:20pm

dclane wrote: »

1. How did they get my address? I take it it's from the Driver Vehicle Services in Republic

The National Vehicle and Driver File (NVDF). The law allows the NI authorities to access your details specifically to enforce parking and bus lane offences.

Department of Regional Development of Northern Ireland | Enforcing parking fines and bus lane contraventions committed in Northern Ireland by the owners of motor vehicles registered in the State.

JoyPad · 02-11-2015 10:34am

dclane wrote: »

As an update I just rang my local Garda station and they said it was very harsh as the law says in ROI you can enter the top of a bus lane if making a left turn.

No, no, no. As explained to me by a Garda who did a 180-turn just to pull behind me and fine me: you should not enter the bus lane at any times if the bus lane is in operation. Even if you're doing a left turn and the other lane is bumper to bumper until Kingdom come.

ironclaw · 02-11-2015 12:45pm

JoyPad wrote: »

No, no, no. As explained to me by a Garda who did a 180-turn just to pull behind me and fine me: you should not enter the bus lane at any times if the bus lane is in operation. Even if you're doing a left turn and the other lane is bumper to bumper until Kingdom come.

Correct. However i believe that there should be a clause, similar to a yellow box junction, that you may enter if you can clear it without stopping and only for the purpose of turning left at the next junction. Keeps traffic moving, reduces congestion in the main lane. Common sense I feel.

markpb · 02-11-2015 1:01pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Correct. However i believe that there should be a clause, similar to a yellow box junction, that you may enter if you can clear it without stopping and only for the purpose of turning left at the next junction. Keeps traffic moving, reduces congestion in the main lane. Common sense I feel.

And we all know how well yellow boxes work in Ireland.

Edit: the point of bus lanes is to reduce congestion on the road network. Provide better public transport, less people will drive, less cars on the road, less congestion for remaining cars. Tinkering like letting people drive in bus lanes would have the opposite effect.

Cuddlesworth · 02-11-2015 1:47pm

markpb wrote: »

And we all know how well yellow boxes work in Ireland.

You mean parking boxes?

jimmycrackcorm · 02-11-2015 10:53pm

I wouldn't bother paying it as there's very little they can do. After all when the last time you heard of a NI driver being taken to court here for building up a set of late M50 toll fees, vice versa in reality.

Actually I would pay it but only because I travel regularly home to Donegal and the PSNI will impound your car with impunity should you get stopped .

But then again I wouldn't pay it because the last time I met a checkpoint there was in the days when they had a whole batallion of British soldiers providing cover.

muttnjeff · 10-02-2017 7:07pm

just renewing this if thats ok. Am in the same boat as OP.. I pulled over to check satnav directions as I was lost. Didnt even know it was a bus lane!! :mad::mad:appealed fine and was declined. they are now looking for 90pounds. has anyone any experience of NOT paying a NI fine when living in the republic? Do they pursue?
Thanks.

Johnboner · 10-02-2017 7:16pm

Not a chance I would pay and how will they pursue?

ironclaw · 10-02-2017 7:16pm

muttnjeff wrote: »

just renewing this if thats ok. Am in the same boat as OP.. I pulled over to check satnav directions as I was lost. Didnt even know it was a bus lane!! :mad::mad:appealed fine and was declined. they are now looking for 90pounds. has anyone any experience of NOT paying a NI fine when living in the republic? Do they pursue?
Thanks.

Northern Ireland is littered with ANPR and the cops are equipped with it to. Your reg could (likely will) be flagged for non-payment / outstanding payments. Hence you could find yourself pulled over a few months or years from now with some awkward questions to answer. Cops there don't have a hesitation to drive you to the station or nearest ATM for the amount. If you never plan to return to NI, its grand, if not, I'd pay it and honestly you should. By your own admission, you were fully wrong.

Not a chance I would pay and how will they pursue?

Poster broke a traffic law in a foreign country. Of course it has repercussions. See the other thread regarding the M50 tolls. You can probably haggle it down to the original fine. Ignorance of the law is not a defence.

muttnjeff · 10-02-2017 7:23pm

what if i dont drive there in that car again? As in, if I changed the car between now and my next trip north?

NotInventedHere · 10-02-2017 7:28pm

this might help http://www.donotpay.co.uk/signup.php

Onegoodname · 10-02-2017 8:07pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Northern Ireland is littered with ANPR and the cops are equipped with it to. Your reg could (likely will) be flagged for non-payment / outstanding payments. Hence you could find yourself pulled over a few months or years from now with some awkward questions to answer. Cops there don't have a hesitation to drive you to the station or nearest ATM for the amount. If you never plan to return to NI, its grand, if not, I'd pay it and honestly you should. By your own admission, you were fully wrong.

Poster broke a traffic law in a foreign country. Of course it has repercussions. See the other thread regarding the M50 tolls. You can probably haggle it down to the original fine. Ignorance of the law is not a defence.

I got a letter today it's for 90 £ for being in a bus lane .
It's from a po box in Louth .
Basically the letter goes on to say the fine will increase to 135 and if payment isn't made they can pursue vechile seizure eventually. How realistic is that ?

muttnjeff · 10-02-2017 10:21pm

me too -same letter-must be the day for it. are you going to pay?

Onegoodname · 10-02-2017 10:29pm

muttnjeff wrote: »

me too -same letter-must be the day for it. are you going to pay?

It came from a po box in Louth . So I was unsure what the hell it was. Then I opened it . I honestly don't know what to do I don't have a spare hundred euro at the moment . I feel like it's just a money making racket . It's not like I was speeding . I was in a bus lane lost in a strange city which isn't very well signposted for bus lane restrictions . But the letter does sound a bit threating . It said that they can go as far as seizing the car. Is that even possible though? They have no durastinction.

muttnjeff · 10-02-2017 10:33pm

when I appealed I said I saw no sign posts and i was lost in a strange city looking for directions---no joy--then this today from co louth! Pi##es me off more than anything. Apart from not having 100 euro. I spent a fortune up there too !!!! Am mad.

Mint Sauce · 10-02-2017 10:39pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Good luck with lying to the PSNI, also they are not as friendly as your run of the mill Garda.

They are friendly, they just don't take any sh!t either. Basically OP, if you do ever plan on driving anywhere in NI in the future, as already pointed out, pay it, as you will be pulled by the nearest Police Car for none payment of fines otherwise. As for the bus lane signs, well they were signposted last time I went to Belfast City, and that was only a year ago.

Onegoodname · 10-02-2017 10:41pm

muttnjeff wrote: »

when I appealed I said I saw no sign posts and i was lost in a strange city looking for directions---no joy--then this today from co louth! Pi##es me off more than anything. Apart from not having 100 euro. I spent a fortune up there too !!!! Am mad.

Yeah I know it's really annoying . I'm pissed off too about it. I never go up the north it was just a once off thing and we enjoyed it, but because of this it would really put me off going back . It's really bad especially when people are genuinely lost. Are you going to pay it do you think ?

Mint Sauce · 10-02-2017 10:45pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I wouldn't bother paying it as there's very little they can do. After all when the last time you heard of a NI driver being taken to court here for building up a set of late M50 toll fees, vice versa in reality.

Actually I would pay it but only because I travel regularly home to Donegal and the PSNI will impound your car with impunity should you get stopped .

But then again I wouldn't pay it because the last time I met a checkpoint there was in the days when they had a whole batallion of British soldiers providing cover.

Last time I met a check point there, it was the same weekend as above. The Female Cop asking for my Documents had her side arm, and a tazer, both on view, with her colleague providing cover with a pretty hefty automatic held across his chest. Think they are doing pretty well with out the British Soldiers cover.

honda boi · 10-02-2017 10:45pm

If you sold the car would the new owner be pulled if they go up north?

Onegoodname · 10-02-2017 10:47pm

honda boi wrote: »

If you sold the car would the new owner be pulled if they go up north?

I'd say initially yeah . But then If the new owner had proof of purchase they wouldn't be fined.

muttnjeff · 12-02-2017 3:29pm

Onegoodname wrote: »

Yeah I know it's really annoying . I'm pissed off too about it. I never go up the north it was just a once off thing and we enjoyed it, but because of this it would really put me off going back . It's really bad especially when people are genuinely lost. Are you going to pay it do you think ?

not at the moment anyway:(

Johnboner · 12-02-2017 4:40pm

Onegoodname wrote: »

It came from a po box in Louth . So I was unsure what the hell it was. Then I opened it . I honestly don't know what to do I don't have a spare hundred euro at the moment . I feel like it's just a money making racket . It's not like I was speeding . I was in a bus lane lost in a strange city which isn't very well signposted for bus lane restrictions . But the letter does sound a bit threating . It said that they can go as far as seizing the car. Is that even possible though? They have no durastinction.

Bailiffs from Northern Ireland will come here and seize your car and bring it back to NI with a tow truck.

GM228 · 12-02-2017 5:18pm

Johnboner wrote: »

Bailiffs from Northern Ireland will come here and seize your car and bring it back to NI with a tow truck.

NI does not have bailiffs and even if they did they have no authority here.

OP, was it a PO Box 134 address?

muttnjeff · 12-02-2017 5:41pm

po box 62 dundalk

GM228 · 12-02-2017 5:55pm

muttnjeff wrote: »

po box 62 dundalk

Sorry missed the Louth part in your post, Dundalk, so who sent you the letter?

A division of NSL Services Group (who are responsible for this is NI) or a debt collector in the South I wonder?

muttnjeff · 12-02-2017 6:11pm

whistl po box 62 dundalk on googling it appears to be a british postal alternative to post office?

GM228 · 12-02-2017 6:15pm

muttnjeff wrote: »

whistl po box 62 dundalk on googling it appears to be a british postal alternative to post office?

PO Box numbers can be repeated in other jurisdictions, more importantly they go hand in hand with county/country. PO Box 62, Dundalk would have nothing to do with say PO Box 62, Antrim etc.

Surely there is more than a PO Box number, a name of the sender for example?

GM228 · 12-02-2017 9:26pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Northern Ireland is littered with ANPR and the cops are equipped with it to. Your reg could (likely will) be flagged for non-payment / outstanding payments. Hence you could find yourself pulled over a few months or years from now with some awkward questions to answer. Cops there don't have a hesitation to drive you to the station or nearest ATM for the amount. If you never plan to return to NI, its grand, if not, I'd pay it and honestly you should. By your own admission, you were fully wrong.

PCNs for bus lane infractions in NI (just like parking tickets) are decriminalised enforcements, they are civil fines, not criminal fines to which the police have no interest or knowledge.

Bus lane penalty fine in Belfast

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