Better off Abroad, What do you think?

jenjoeful

Having watched RTE's show 'Better off Abroad' last Sunday I can't help but wonder are we better off abroad? I guess I mean financially and quality of life. If only for a year or two to give somebody a financial jump start in life?
I'm seriously considering a year min in UAE for life experience, for financial gain, and to chance my arm at something bigger... but I really have no idea...
Any thoughts?

Mongfinder General

jenjoeful wrote: »

Having watched RTE's show 'Better off Abroad' last Sunday I can't help but wonder are we better off abroad? I guess I mean financially and quality of life. If only for a year or two to give somebody a financial jump start in life?
I'm seriously considering a year min in UAE for life experience, for financial gain, and to chance my arm at something bigger... but I really have no idea...
Any thoughts?

Depends on your personality and needs. I went abroad to the States at 21. It made me appreciate simple things back home like being able to walk places and have public transport. It also gave me an understanding of how diverse the world is and how foreigners view us.

jenjoeful

I'm 25, work in IT and ridiculously ambitious! I get on well with people, and can also fight my own battles in a nice way! Hmmmm I wonder. IT is booming over there i'd like my slice of it if I could at all (without sounding patronising)

TimeToShine

It really, really depends on where you want to go. "Abroad" is far too general a term.

desertcircus

Short answer: don't move to Dubai based on a "documentary" which thanks Dubai Tourism right at the top of the credits.

Long answer: it depends entirely on your own preferences. I'd rather live in a city with a simmering low-level civil war than in Dubai, but then that's just me. It's a perfect location for some people, and unspeakably awful for others.

discus

I've really enjoyed working in the UK the past 4 years. You don't need to go too far to find greener pastures

Tom Dunne

jenjoeful wrote: »

Having watched RTE's show 'Better off Abroad' last Sunday I can't help but wonder are we better off abroad? I guess I mean financially and quality of life. If only for a year or two to give somebody a financial jump start in life?
I'm seriously considering a year min in UAE for life experience, for financial gain, and to chance my arm at something bigger... but I really have no idea...
Any thoughts?

As somebody who has lived both in the US and the Middle East, I would say do not go abroad just for financial reasons. Go away to broaden your horizons, get experience and have a good life.

But always remember the downsides of living abroad - they are many and varied. It is not all sunshine and rainbows, living away from family, familiarity and social structures can be tough at times.

myshirt

^^^^^^^

That would principally be the reason I'd move in the first place. Family, familiarity, same people, same craic. I figure no matter where you go life has its challenges, and best that it be in a sunny environment where no one knows your business, everyone is not miserable, and you are not paying off the debts of a greedy generation that went before you, looking at yourself in the mirror (aged 35 or under) with little hope of a meaningful pension or secure housing ahead of you - rather than a place where you are working to put money in another mans pocket (Dublin rents) and where there is limited social mobilty.

I say go to Dubai lad, do it while young and best of luck to you.

swimming in a sea

myshirt wrote: »

^^^^^^^

That would principally be the reason I'd move in the first place. Family, familiarity, same people, same craic. I figure no matter where you go life has its challenges, and best that it be in a sunny environment where no one knows your business, everyone is not miserable, and you are not paying off the debts of a greedy generation that went before you, looking at yourself in the mirror (aged 35 or under) with little hope of a meaningful pension or secure housing ahead of you - rather than a place where you are working to put money in another mans pocket (Dublin rents) and where there is limited social mobilty.

I say go to Dubai lad, do it while young and best of luck to you.

Not just for the young, I knew the family of that old bloke that moved to Dubai to open a flower shop. It's great to see him pushing on and not just packing it in thinking he is to old.

I'm looking into the middle east myself, as another winter comes I get even more depressed that the last. So a few years in UAE or Qatar would do me then a guest house in France..:D:D:D

Manny7

As someone currently working in the Middle East, I'd say if you decide to move to this region, do it for more than just money. Don't get me wrong, the money on offer here is unbelievable, but there's a lot of expats who come here just for that reason. They're the ones who only hang out with people from home and moan about how awful everything is here while squirrelling away their pay.

Instead, come over to enjoy the lifestyle and experience of living in a melting pot of cultures from round the world, and you'll have a great time while still making the same cash as the people who begrudge every second they have to spend here.

jenjoeful

Manny7 wrote: »

As someone currently working in the Middle East, I'd say if you decide to move to this region, do it for more than just money. Don't get me wrong, the money on offer here is unbelievable, but there's a lot of expats who come here just for that reason. They're the ones who only hang out with people from home and moan about how awful everything is here while squirrelling away their pay.

Instead, come over to enjoy the lifestyle and experience of living in a melting pot of cultures from round the world, and you'll have a great time while still making the same cash as the people who begrudge every second they have to spend here.

This is really good advice. I'd be quite similar in that I wouldn't be interested in just making money (its's only half my motivation )i love new cultures and travelling. I'd wouldn't be naive either by thinking the grass is always greener on the other side, cause work is work it's not any easier anywhere else.
If I was going to UAE would I need a job before hand?.... I don't think I could afford it any other way so I probably would need to. What's your recommendations?
Also if I was going I'd probably be going with my boyfriend, anyone have any advice whether we could live together in UAE or would we be looking for trouble of were aren't married?

Tom Dunne

jenjoeful wrote: »

If I was going to UAE would I need a job before hand?....

You most certainly would.

jenjoeful wrote: »

Also if I was going I'd probably be going with my boyfriend, anyone have any advice whether we could live together in UAE or would we be looking for trouble of were aren't married?

Ah, that old can of worms.

It's been debated to death on the Living Abroad forum.

Manny7

jenjoeful wrote: »

This is really good advice. I'd be quite similar in that I wouldn't be interested in just making money (its's only half my motivation )i love new cultures and travelling. I'd wouldn't be naive either by thinking the grass is always greener on the other side, cause work is work it's not any easier anywhere else.
If I was going to UAE would I need a job before hand?.... I don't think I could afford it any other way so I probably would need to. What's your recommendations?
Also if I was going I'd probably be going with my boyfriend, anyone have any advice whether we could live together in UAE or would we be looking for trouble of were aren't married?

On the good side, if you come over with that attitude, you’ll have a great time. Definitely look for work first though – most places here require your work to sponsor you, so you’ll need to have a position in place before you move. I think you said you work in IT – I’m not in that area, but just search for some recruiters and get in touch with them – I found Reed and Barclay Simpson to be good but again will depend on your area.

On the bad side, I’m not sure about coming over as an unmarried couple. I’m in Qatar, which is similar to, if slightly stricter than, the UAE, and while I know a few unmarried couples here it’s not something I’d be too comfortable with. You’d probably be fine, but all you need is some official having a bad day to hear about it and rescind your residence permit. Dubai is definitely a bit more easy-going, so perhaps it’s less of an issue there.

Thargor

Manny7 wrote: »

As someone currently working in the Middle East, I'd say if you decide to move to this region, do it for more than just money. Don't get me wrong, the money on offer here is unbelievable, but there's a lot of expats who come here just for that reason. They're the ones who only hang out with people from home and moan about how awful everything is here while squirrelling away their pay.

Instead, come over to enjoy the lifestyle and experience of living in a melting pot of cultures from round the world, and you'll have a great time while still making the same cash as the people who begrudge every second they have to spend here.

Does every job over there pay a fortune? Can you just walk into jobs based on being European with fluent English?

What would you reccomend for someone who wanted to do 2-3 years and squirrel away as much cash as possible? I have a biotech/pharma degree aswell but doubt theres much of that over there...

QuelleSuprise

Hard watching tonight's episode of Better Off in Silicon Valley. I am a young and single man myself recently out of college (Computer Science) in my early-twenties and the amount of opportunity over there seems staggering. I know the program puts a great sheen on everything but even putting a sober head on it, its hard not to seriously consider it.

After being in the workforce here for a year or so a few things come to me personally. Without bursting my balls to somehow get well up the salary ladder, I will never be able to afford to buy a decent house here. I don't know how people do it without having a decent inheritance and/or a spouse with a good job too. Taking away doctors, solicitors and professions like that, all salaries here are roughly the same. Compare that to the US where there seems to be great competition. In my case, Engineers seem to be very well paid. Everyone in Ireland seems to start on 30k and getting to 100K (Arbitrary number alert!) is a hard, hard task. You may be lucky enough to get into a MNC early in its inception over here and move up, but it that case its pure luck and hard graft.

I myself work in Intel here, which was mentioned many times on the program. Great company with many opportunities. The best and much easier attained (This is really the key thing) opportunities are over in the US though. I feel this is for most companies that are in both countries.

I actually really like Ireland more or less and would hate to leave my fiends but I really have to seriously think about giving it a go over there for a while if I got the opportunity. The way I see it; do a year or two there and see what its like. Whats the worst that could happen? I come back and get 35k instead of 40? I can live with that. What I can't live with is regrets.

Time for myself to do some ruminating over the next few months...

elastico

QuelleSuprise wrote: »

Hard watching tonight's episode of Better Off in Silicon Valley. I am a young and single man myself recently out of college (Computer Science) in my early-twenties and the amount of opportunity over there seems staggering. I know the program puts a great sheen on everything but even putting a sober head on it, its hard not to seriously consider it.

After being in the workforce here for a year or so a few things come to me personally. Without bursting my balls to somehow get well up the salary ladder, I will never be able to afford to buy a decent house here. I don't know how people do it without having a decent inheritance and/or a spouse with a good job too. Taking away doctors, solicitors and professions like that, all salaries here are roughly the same. Compare that to the US where there seems to be great competition. In my case, Engineers seem to be very well paid. Everyone in Ireland seems to start on 30k and getting to 100K (Arbitrary number alert!) is a hard, hard task. You may be lucky enough to get into a MNC early in its inception over here and move up, but it that case its pure luck and hard graft.

I myself work in Intel here, which was mentioned many times on the program. Great company with many opportunities. The best and much easier attained (This is really the key thing) opportunities are over in the US though. I feel this is for most companies that are in both countries.

I actually really like Ireland more or less and would hate to leave my fiends but I really have to seriously think about giving it a go over there for a while if I got the opportunity. The way I see it; do a year or two there and see what its like. Whats the worst that could happen? I come back and get 35k instead of 40? I can live with that. What I can't live with is regrets.

Time for myself to do some ruminating over the next few months...

One thing mentioned on the programme was the cost of a house, was a 3 bed apartment with a "stunning view" of a motorway nearly $1m? And $200K for college!

I am sure its fine for some people, in particular if you are young, free and full of energy. Not sure its that great for living the rest of your life and raising a family, unless you are earning lots of money.

dr.kenneth noisewater

From watching last night I'd love to know how most of these people got visas over to the US? One guy had and american born wife but I'd love to know how some of the others got working there. It's a country I've always wanted to work in for a few years but I can't really see a way over for myself unless I go over illegally

Nody

elastico wrote: »

One thing mentioned on the programme was the cost of a house, was a 3 bed apartment with a "stunning view" of a motorway nearly $1m? And $200K for college!

I am sure its fine for some people, in particular if you are young, free and full of energy. Not sure its that great for living the rest of your life and raising a family, unless you are earning lots of money.

I think anyone who thinks people there are pulling in mad money should read this first. A shared apartment room? $2000 a month at the cheapest. There's a reason why they get paid so much because the living costs are on a whole different scale as well...

Divisadero

If you plan to actually live in San Francisco itself you are looking at paying around $3000 (prob more as that was about a year ago) a month for a one bed apartment. If you can find one. Makes the Dublin rental crisis seem minor! The influx of 'techies' has caused major social issues in San Francisco with widespread gentrification and those on decent salaries like Police Officers and Firefighters having to leave the very city they police and commute in . The irony is most of the tech workers don't even work in the city but down in the valley. But Google etc. run free buses from SF so they can enjoy the SF lifestyle. What's left of it...

But if you are into Tech and your priority is trying to make some big cash it would seem to be where it's at.

Jim2007

Divisadero wrote: »

But if you are into Tech and your priority is trying to make some big cash it would seem to be where it's at.

Average US software engineer salary 76K, average Swiss software engineer 104K and a better work life balance. Software engineers with say 5 years experience can expect to be on about 120K and should be able to save around 1.5K - 3K per month depending on lifestyle.

There are no work permit restrictions for Irish citizens.

Divisadero

Jim2007 wrote: »

Average US software engineer salary 76K, average Swiss software engineer 104K and a better work life balance. Software engineers with say 5 years experience can expect to be on about 120K and should be able to save around 1.5K - 3K per month depending on lifestyle.

There are no work permit restrictions for Irish citizens.

I honestly know virtually nothing about tech careers. Note the use of the word it would "seem" to be where it's at. I am familiar with the reality of moving to San Francisco though which was my motivation in posting.

MrAviation

Going abroad is something I hope to do soon enough

Should you go abroad?
Oh Dubai

jenjoeful

So I think I will make a leap and start looking at jobs in UAE in tech for mid to late next year. I'm coming to an age it's do it now - or never.
I'll need to find a solution to the 'can't live with your partner', it's one thing to not live with him in Dublin, but going to a foreign country, the support for me would be so important so I want to continue living with him..... yes i'm prob being naive/childish but it is what it is.

If anyone can recommend recruiters, companies, locations, boards that I can look at it would be much appreciated.

I'll let you know how I get on over the next few months in the search.

Thargor

Anyone know if there's biotech or pharma jobs out there?

experiMental

QuelleSuprise wrote: »

Hard watching tonight's episode of Better Off in Silicon Valley. I am a young and single man myself recently out of college (Computer Science) in my early-twenties and the amount of opportunity over there seems staggering. I know the program puts a great sheen on everything but even putting a sober head on it, its hard not to seriously consider it.

There are pro's and cons to Silicon Valley. Underneath all that optimism lies extreme ambition, arrogance and unrealistic expectations. Most Silicon Valley companies are chancing their arms, a lot like most other tech companies. The difference is, that they are close to investors, and that's where they get their money. Nobody says what happens when companies go bust and fail to return their investment.

I guess it's great to work in Silicon Valley for a couple of years and get some experience in various companies. If you want to live there and buy a house, it will be an entirely different game.

dwayneshintzy

Anyone watch the Hong Kong episode that was on last night?

topmanamillion

I watched the Hong Kong episode. George Lee tried to be fair and balanced and paint it in a positive light but for me the negatives far outweighed any positives.

Massive pollution which is only getting worse (one Irish womans child had severe asthma as a result and she was seriously considering moving away for that reason)
$2,500/month for an average apartment in and around Hong Kong.
No state pension or social welfare for ex-pats regardless of how much they contribute to the state.
What should be picturesque beaches awash with rubbish which takes 14 dumper trucks a day to remove, which are probably dumping it somewhere that it`ll wash up on another beach down the line.
Heavy interference on basic human rights from the Chinese main land.


The low rate of tax and no VAT are wiped out by the general cost of living, particularly rent.

A few scenes of the "Murphia" as they are being called, who are essentially a couple of lads from Dublin who did well from working in and with Casinos, didn't make it appeal to me in anyway.

dwayneshintzy

Was it mostly finance types they interviewed (of the Irish ex-pats), or did they include any construction, teachers, engineers, etc?

The pollution CAN get bad at times, but I don't think it's a serious factor. Certainly not as much of a problem as somewhere like Shanghai, Beijing or even just over the border in Shenzhen.

Rent is high, but there are areas that are much cheaper to live in than on Hong Kong Island (where many ex-pats insist on living). And outside of rent, the cost of living isn't too bad at all. I would say cheaper than Ireland on the whole; "Western" pubs and restaurants are very pricey though.

whatlliwear

There are pros and cons to working abroad & in Ireland.
I am not long home from Canada.
The main pro of working in Ireland is the annual leave.

mahamageehad

whatlliwear wrote: »

There are pros and cons to working abroad & in Ireland.
I am not long home from Canada.
The main pro of working in Ireland is the annual leave.

I've been in Germany for 18 months now. The poor annual leave in Ireland is one thing that'd make me reluctant to go back! I worked for an Irish company that offered 20 days with no chance of earning more. People there 30 years still had 20 days. In Germany my company offers 30 days leave plus flexi time so I can use that to get an extra half day here and there.

You couldn't pay me enough to move to UAE.

whatlliwear

mahamageehad wrote: »

I've been in Germany for 18 months now. The poor annual leave in Ireland is one thing that'd make me reluctant to go back! I worked for an Irish company that offered 20 days with no chance of earning more. People there 30 years still had 20 days. In Germany my company offers 30 days leave plus flexi time so I can use that to get an extra half day here and there.

You couldn't pay me enough to move to UAE.

The average in Canada is 10.lol.

Berserker

whatlliwear wrote: »

There are pros and cons to working abroad & in Ireland.
I am not long home from Canada.
The main pro of working in Ireland is the annual leave.

I agree with you. My wife is a fully qualified doctor now and she really wants to move back to Canada or even the USA. They are crying out for qualified doctors over there. The reduction in my holiday allowance is going to be the biggest difference to my professional life. I have 30 days annual leave plus bank holidays here. I was allocated 10 or so when I worked in the USA.

Living abroad is probably a good option, if you are in your 20s or 30s and you are not tied down financially. The next five to ten years are going to be very tough here. I would urge anyone who is thinking of moving abroad to think about the social and not just the financial side of the decision.