Use of Gaeilge in Waterford City.

Caoimhgh1n

I am always wanting to say a few phrases in Irish, be it in a shop, or casual encounter but never do, as I don't know what kind of response to expect. What are your experiences regarding the Irish language in Waterford City and any ways you think things could be improved upon?


I would also like to say, this isn't a thread for moaning about the Christian Brothers and how they "bet it into ya". If you want to complain about it, please create your own thread elsewhere.

obezyana

I can ask can I go to the toilet....does that count as using Irish

I do think the language is dying out and I suppose it is a shame. I for one have hardly ever heard anyone using it in Waterford City. Iv heard more Polish, Russian, and almost every other kind of language the world has at this stage but sadly very little Irish. I think the general population arent really bothered by it anymore.

Caoimhgh1n

I always speak with my friends in public in a bit of Irish (non are fluent) and I wish I noticed others doing the same. The last time I was in Dublin (what inspired this thread) I came across three groups of people speaking Irish, and I was honestly delighted people were keeping it up!

obezyana

But the sad thing is these days it is not relevant. Id like to be able to speak Irish in fact I actually signed up for Irish classes a few years ago but never saw it out for a variety of reasons which one was I couldn't or didn't see the need to see it out because id never really use it. I asked my kids who are in secondary school if they could drop any subjects in school what would they be and they both say religion and irish.

Caoimhgh1n

That's a pity, I think Irish is a great subject, my favourite in fact! Lots of people change their attitudes after school.

obezyana

I agree it is a good subject and the idea of being able to speak our own language is one that appeals to me but again like i said id never use it and it is sadly not relevant anymore so I know I would not commit to learning it all over again.

Caoimhgh1n

If you have a negative attitude you won't learn it, but there could be even little things like a coffee through Irish once a month that people could go to, and there are expressions not found in English, and thus really fulfilling in certain situations. Anyway, I wish you the best and keep up the cúpla focal!

obezyana

I wouldnt have a negative attitude to it I just know it is not something I see as being of benefit to me so therefore I would not give it the time it needs in order to learn to a level which is good enough to hold a conversation in. I can only imagine most people may feel the same hence the reason it is dying out.

Caoimhgh1n

If you changed your frame of mind, You'd be surprised now quickly it will come back to you.

obezyana

Maybe so I might give it a go again some day.

Caoimhgh1n

Best wishes.

deisemum

A lot of gaelgoirs put so many people off even attempting to speak Irish and are also a bit snobby about being fluent in Irish over those that aren't. In my almost 19 years in Waterford i think I've only heard Irish been spoken a handful of times if that outside my home.

It's over 33 years since I finished school and I've never had to use Irish and most of what I knew is gone. I did go and do Irish classes for parents at my sons secondary school a few years ago but they ended because of only a few people wanting to do them.

OP just start using it and see how it goes.

Caoimhgh1n

deisemum wrote: »

A lot of gaelgoirs put so many people off even attempting to speak Irish and are also a bit snobby about being fluent in Irish over those that aren't. In my almost 19 years in Waterford i think I've only heard Irish been spoken a handful of times if that outside my home.

It's over 33 years since I finished school and I've never had to use Irish and most of what I knew is gone. I did go and do Irish classes for parents at my sons secondary school a few years ago but they ended because of only a few people wanting to do them.

OP just start using it and see how it goes.

I may have read it wrong, but I really don't mean to be snobby and I apologise if I was!

I'll give it a try next time in there.

deisemum

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

I may have read it wrong, but I really don't mean to be snobby and I apologise if I was!

I'll give it a try next time in there.

I don't think you're snobby but I've been in the company of too many gaelgoirs who are snobby about being fluent Irish speakers including one of my sisters who's an Irish teacher.

Caoimhgh1n

I understand now, don't let that stop you!

crazyman

I was down in Dingle about 5 years back and the lady behind the counter in the bar addressed me in Irish - I might as well have been in another country as I hadn't a notion what she had said. I was embarrassed.

Personally, I would love to speak fluent Irish, and I think all Irish people should be able to. The way it was thought to us puts people off learning or using it. Would have been ideal if at some stage in primary school the entire year was to be thought through Irish only - we'd all be pretty handy at it then.

nikkibikki

Start off with an aul "Go raibh maith agat" in a shop OP and you never know what response you'll get. I'm not in Waterford but not far away and don't know of anywhere specifically.

I think there's a forum here called Teach na Gealt (exact name/spelling could be wrong!) where people post as Gaeilge so you could ask there.

Caoimhgh1n

nikkibikki wrote: »

Start off with an aul "Go raibh maith agat" in a shop OP and you never know what response you'll get. I'm not in Waterford but not far away and don't know of anywhere specifically.

I think there's a forum here called Teach na Gealt (exact name/spelling could be wrong!) where people post as Gaeilge so you could ask there.

Thank you, I might ask there at some point.

Wanderer78

unfortunately languages are beyond me but it is sad to see the decline of our own. it really was badly thought to us in school. no wonder most adults dont keep it up. great to see the gaelscoils around. kids really do pick up the language quickly. impressive

Caoimhgh1n

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately languages are beyond me but it is sad to see the decline of our own. it really was badly thought to us in school. no wonder most adults dont keep it up. great to see the gaelscoils around. kids really do pick up the language quickly. impressive

I agree, gaelscoileanna are very important for the language.

MartyMcFly84

I think all languages are badly taught in Ireland.

Be it Irish, French, German or Spanish. Its ridiculous how people can study a mandatory for most second language for 12 years and walk out not being able to order a coffee and a sandwich in a shop.

Its the same with European languages. Almost everyone studied them, any hardly anyone can speak them.

As Irish is our native language it does cause some embarrassment to most people that they cannot speak it, and this could re-enforce some of the negative feeling towards to language in some ways.

I have a friend who always finishes his text messages or goodbyes in Irish. I have no idea what he is saying most of the time but you may as well give it a go good luck with it.

Squidvicious

There's a ciorcal comhra in the Gingerman every Thursday, I think. It's open to anybody to head along as far as I know. I think that it's a shame to see our language heading the way of the dinosaurs. However, it just feels to me quite forced and artificial to speak it. I've got a reasonable standard of Irish, but a part of me thinks why am I struggling to speak to somebody in one language when I could speak clearly to them in another. Perhaps a little lazy on my part but the real problem is that there is no longer any real need to speak Irish apart from the "hobby" element - we all speak English now.

Squidvicious

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

I agree, gaelscoileanna are very important for the language.

I'm being negative here, I know, but Gaelscoileanna have been around for a good few years now. Has they increased the amount of Irish being spoken in the real world, outside of school and after school when the kids leave at 18?

Caoimhgh1n

Squidvicious wrote: »

I've got a reasonable standard of Irish

Why not use it then? As the previous post mentioned, I always use phrases as Gaeilge, be it on social media or in person! One of them said to me not so long ago "I've actually learned a few things from what you say in Irish".

Caoimhgh1n

Squidvicious wrote: »

I'm being negative here, I know, but Gaelscoileanna have been around for a good few years now. Has they increased the amount of Irish being spoken in the real world, outside of school and after school when the kids leave at 18?

Good question.

I have 4 friends from Gaelscoileanna. Two of them speak to me in Irish online and when with each other (unless others are there, then it's rude)

I can't tell you exactly, but here is a case of Irish being used day to day due to gaelscoileanna.

Edit: Spelling mistake.

MartyMcFly84

There's a ciorcal comhra in the Gingerman every Thursday, I think. It's open to anybody to head along as far as I know. I think that it's a shame to see our language heading the way of the dinosaurs. However, it just feels to me quite forced and artificial to speak it. I've got a reasonable standard of Irish, but a part of me thinks why am I struggling to speak to somebody in one language when I could speak clearly to them in another. Perhaps a little lazy on my part but the real problem is that there is no longer any real need to speak Irish apart from the "hobby" element - we all speak English now.

This is a valid point. The main purpose of language is communication with other people. It is natural to speak in a language you and the other person are most comfortable in. Its very difficult to speak to someone in one particular language if you know you are both more fluent in another.

My Polish girlfriend and a few other Irish friends are all fluent in Spanish. However we always speak in English together unless there is a Spanish speaking person who might have difficulty following an English conversation.

This would never be the case in Ireland as everyone fluent in Irish is fluent in English and to push speaking in Irish would feel forced in many ways. Often what ever language you establish a relationship with a person in is often the language you continue to use with them. It would not feel natural to me to switch back in forth with the same person in different languages unless needs be.

nikkibikki

Squidvicious wrote:

I've got a reasonable standard of Irish, but a part of me thinks why am I struggling to speak to somebody in one language when I could speak clearly to them in another. Perhaps a little lazy on my part but the real problem is that there is no longer any real need to speak Irish apart from the "hobby" element - we all speak English now.

Use it or lose it! Úsáid í nó chaill í!

I studied Gaeilge in uni and it was such a difference to school where I struggled til 5th year when I got a different teacher. A nun with OCD but passionate about the language, as were the lecturers I had in uni.

My son goes to the local Gaelscoil and I'll always try to use it when speaking or writing to his teacher but don't have the confidence to use it all the time with the principal. I get tongue tied!

MRnotlob606

If you even have the slightest love or affection for the language , It will be gone by the time you reach secondary school.It's taught in such a dogmatic and formal manner,which inhibits language learning. People learn languages by speaking it and using it,not by regurgitating some 'picture-story' BS.

It would be nice of we could be bilingual, I mean there's people living less than 40km away from us who can speak it fluently on a day to day basis in Rinn.

katydid

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

I always speak with my friends in public in a bit of Irish (non are fluent) and I wish I noticed others doing the same. The last time I was in Dublin (what inspired this thread) I came across three groups of people speaking Irish, and I was honestly delighted people were keeping it up!

I go to Wales a lot and it's wonderful to hear people speaking Welsh on the streets of Cardiff or Swansea. For the Welsh, it's a very important part of their national identity - but then I suppose they don't have independence, so it's one of the only ways they have of being different from England. We probably don't have the same impetus to speak Irish.

katydid

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

If you even have the slightest love or affection for the language , It will be gone by the time you reach secondary school.It's taught in such a dogmatic and formal manner,which inhibits language learning. People learn languages by speaking it and using it,not by regurgitating some 'picture-story' BS.

It would be nice of we could be bilingual, I mean there's people living less than 40km away from us who can speak it fluently on a day to day basis in Rinn.

But do they? I was told by someone from there that they don't speak it that much.

Caoimhgh1n

katydid wrote: »

But do they? I was told by someone from there that they don't speak it that much.

It's one of the better Gaeltachtaí.. The Gaeltachtaí in Dún na nGall (Donegal) are great too.

katydid

Squidvicious wrote: »

There's a ciorcal comhra in the Gingerman every Thursday, I think. It's open to anybody to head along as far as I know. I think that it's a shame to see our language heading the way of the dinosaurs. However, it just feels to me quite forced and artificial to speak it. I've got a reasonable standard of Irish, but a part of me thinks why am I struggling to speak to somebody in one language when I could speak clearly to them in another. Perhaps a little lazy on my part but the real problem is that there is no longer any real need to speak Irish apart from the "hobby" element - we all speak English now.

I agree. I love Irish, but I doubt if I could hold a conversation in it. Yet I speak fluent French and German, and passable Italian. The reason my Irish is bad is that from the day I left school I haven't used it in any meaningful way.

Language is a tool of communication, and the reality is that if tools aren't use, they rust up and are useless. The language of Ireland is English. We can force ourselves to use Irish in artificial situations, but really, are we just keeping a dying language on life support?

katydid

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

It's one of the better Gaeltachtaí.. The Gaeltachtaí in Dún na nGall (Donegal) are great too.

Not really an answer to my question...

This person had gone through primary and secondary school in Rinn, and she told me that she doesn't speak Irish at home, and that her friends and herself from school didn't speak Irish outside of school.

Caoimhgh1n

katydid wrote: »

Not really an answer to my question...

This person had gone through primary and secondary school in Rinn, and she told me that she doesn't speak Irish at home, and that her friends and herself from school didn't speak Irish outside of school.

Maybe her family didn't, you must realise not 100 percent of people speak Irish daily in the Gaeltachtaí. In An Rinn, they have one of the best population of Irish SPEAKERS, but only 50 percent use it at home, but that number I believe has slightly risen.

Caoimhgh1n

Speakers for the population that is.

MRnotlob606

I think your right, but at least they have a much better comprehension of the language.

MartyMcFly84

Maybe her family didn't, you must realise not 100 percent of people speak Irish daily in the Gaeltachtaí. In An Rinn, they have one of the best population of Irish SPEAKERS, but only 50 percent use it at home, but that number I believe has slightly risen.

How many young families live in these areas though ? I believe most young adults leave these areas to go 3rd level education/ find work and travel. I would hazard a guess most don't return to live permanently, and set up somewhere else in Ireland or the world that is non-Irish speaking.

Caoimhgh1n

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

How many young families live in these areas though ? I believe most young adults leave these areas to go 3rd level education/ find work and travel. I would hazard a guess most don't return to live permanently, and set up somewhere else in Ireland or the world that is non-Irish speaking.

Different Gaeltachtaí have different age groups.

I believe that the Gaeltacht won't be the revival of the language, but the use of it in cities is. The Gaeltachtaí are getting smaller and smaller, it's about time we set up areas in cities where people who only want to speak Irish can live and hopefully they can branch out.

It may seem crazy, but I don't think the Gaeltachtaí can last much longer, especially when their minister can't speak it himself. Disgrace.

Squidvicious

katydid wrote: »

I agree. I love Irish, but I doubt if I could hold a conversation in it. Yet I speak fluent French and German, and passable Italian. The reason my Irish is bad is that from the day I left school I haven't used it in any meaningful way.

Language is a tool of communication, and the reality is that if tools aren't use, they rust up and are useless. The language of Ireland is English. We can force ourselves to use Irish in artificial situations, but really, are we just keeping a dying language on life support?

I suspect that the battle may be lost for people like you and me:). I speak Italian myself. While I do like Irish, I just find Italian a bit more likeable. That's because it's part of a very vibrant culture while Irish language culture is much more limited, given the numbers speaking it.

However, I suppose that things might change with the Gaelscoileanna which might allow Irish to survive in some shape or form. When I was younger, I remember an ad on RTE urging people to "Caith an fainne nua". The Fainne was a gold circle that Irish speakers wore to identify themselves. I think that you had to be fairly fluent to get one. Perhaps some kind of symbol like that could be worn by people who want to speak Irish? I'd say that there are a lot of people who would like to do that. The only way that most of us will improve our Irish is by speaking and I'd say that with practise, we'd be surprised how much of our school Irish might come back. I think that Irish needs more than this to survive, but it might be one of the building blocks to help it. From little acorns etc.

Johnboy1951

Admittedly it is many decades since I was taught Irish, so my experiences might not be relevant today.

I very firmly believe that Irish as a subject for national examinations should be regarded in the same manner as any other language.

Let it remain as an exam subject for those who wish to get into the technicalities of the language.

Schools should, in both primary and secondary, have one 'class' per day, where the language spoken is Irish.

The 'subject' of the class should be anything topical and of interest to the students ...... let that be sport, politics, religion or whatever.
The aim would be to get the students involved in speaking about something that interests them ..... and if they have at times to resort to the use of English words or expressions to communicate clearly, let that happen, and have the teacher provide the Irish equivalent.

(can't you just image a free flowing conversation in Irish about the latest meeting of ManU & Pool, or W'ford & Kilkenny hurlers?)

In this way the students would learn to speak the language and not regard it solely as a subject for examination.

I believe it would generate school leavers who would be comfortable speaking Irish and who would have had a very positive experience of their time learning it ....... in a non pressurised and relaxed 'class'.

Irish as a subject for examination should be a completely separate entity.

Irish needs to be a 'living' language and not only something one studies like one might study Latin or other such.

Yes I said 'needs' ..... it is part of our heritage and culture .... a part much neglected.

stereomatic

I'm learning Irish on Duolingo

I think informal meetings would be a great idea

PTH2009

Afaik A group of Irish speakers meet in the gingeman pub in arundel square every Thursday night.

I wasn't there in a while so unsure if they still do it