NBFD (New Bus For Dublin) ...

LordSutch

NBFD (New Bus For Dublin) ...in my dreams.


Just back from a trip to London and I had the previlage to travel on the NBFL (New Bus For London), it is a Great bus!

Its just so electric (excuse the pun), but everything about it is different, from the seat design, to the two staircases, three sets of doors, to the electric motor, its an electrifying experience with a quality ride, and its really brilliant

So what are the chances of us getting some sent down to Dublin (from NI) where they make them?

Just imagining the NBFD in green livery, lovely.

Any chance?

Terrontress

Do TFL own the design? If so then I guess Dublin Bus will have to licence it, and I don't see the point in licencing it when any bus manufacturer will provide a bus with two staircases and a diesel electric drivetrain, but not looking like that one

RayM

Certain elements of the design might suit Dublin (the wraparound upstairs windows would be great), but it might be a bit of a waste having two sets of doors that most drivers refuse to utilise.

cdebru

Bad enough the crap DB/NTA are currently buying without lumbering the city with extremely expensive political project buses from London.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2015/jul/24/boriss-bus-a-political-journey-part-44-the-flat-battery-affair

devnull

No thanks.

The price of them versus a similar regular double deck is far too high.

alcaline

cdebru wrote: »

Bad enough the crap DB/NTA are currently buying

The new SG's have dangerous slow acceleration, try get out onto a busy roundabout, and some fool in a office somewhere believed it was a good idea to have constant air flow coming out of the demisters, eyes irritated and blood shot after a few minutes, build quality is not very good, plenty of squeaks and rattling , a step back from previous buses, a all round bad purchase.

Cookie_Monster

cdebru wrote: »

Bad enough the crap DB/NTA are currently buying without lumbering the city with extremely expensive political project buses from London.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2015/jul/24/boriss-bus-a-political-journey-part-44-the-flat-battery-affair

Annoying but hardly extreme problems.

Several other classes of standard (look square, 1 stairs, 2 doors) buses run a similar battery system as well.

I doubt the NTA would also move back to the green of previous or even a unique Dublin colour rather than the hideous but high vis yellow to generate an overall association with all buses in Dublin being under the one banner like the red london bus.

devnull

alcaline wrote: »

The new SG's have dangerous slow acceleration, try get out onto a busy roundabout, and some fool in a office somewhere believed it was a good idea to have constant air flow coming out of the demisters, eyes irritated and blood shot after a few minutes, build quality is not very good, plenty of squeaks and rattling , a step back from previous buses, a all round bad purchase.

Build quality in general of buses has got worse over the last few years. Operators and the market generally wants lightweight fuel efficient vehicles these days and view that as the most important thing rather than build quality, which is very sad but just the way it is. Lighter, thinner materials are not as durable or hardwearing.

The Older Gemini's were far better built, but Wright lost a lot of orders and regular customers to Alexander Dennis in the last few years because whilst the Enviro 400 was nowhere near as well built as the original Gemini it was lighter in weight and therefore more economical on fuel and Wright had to respond to that.

The end result is the Gemini 3. Not a patch on the build quality of the older models, but much cheaper to run and more fuel efficient. As a result Wright have won back a lot of the customers they lost, even if the vehicles build quality wise are not a patch on the models that came before them, they are what the market wants whether we like it or not.

That's why you see full sized single decks such as the VWL's in Bus Eireann which were great buses being discontinued by the manufacturers and replaced with things like Streetlites. Much lighter but less sturdy vehicles that use a lot less fuel.

cdebru

alcaline wrote: »

The new SG's have dangerous slow acceleration, try get out onto a busy roundabout, and some fool in a office somewhere believed it was a good idea to have constant air flow coming out of the demisters, eyes irritated and blood shot after a few minutes, build quality is not very good, plenty of squeaks and rattling , a step back from previous buses, a all round bad purchase.

And another one involved in a fatal accident last week almost exactly a year to the day with an almost identical accident.

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

Build quality in general of buses has got worse over the last few years. Operators and the market generally wants lightweight fuel efficient vehicles these days and view that as the most important thing rather than build quality, which is very sad but just the way it is. Lighter, thinner materials are not as durable or hardwearing.

The Older Gemini's were far better built, but Wright lost a lot of orders and regular customers to Alexander Dennis in the last few years because whilst the Enviro 400 was nowhere near as well built as the original Gemini it was lighter in weight and therefore more economical on fuel and Wright had to respond to that.

The end result is the Gemini 3. Not a patch on the build quality of the older models, but much cheaper to run and more fuel efficient. As a result Wright have won back a lot of the customers they lost, even if the vehicles build quality wise are not a patch on the models that came before them, they are what the market wants whether we like it or not.

That's why you see full sized single decks such as the VWL's in Bus Eireann which were great buses being discontinued by the manufacturers and replaced with things like Streetlites. Much lighter but less sturdy vehicles that use a lot less fuel.

The crappy build is relatively minor to the delayed acceleration built in purposely to meet the euro 6 emissions, my understanding is it puts the bus into a low tick over when it stops to reduce emissions, when its time to move again it takes a while to get the engine back up to power, which results in a delay, not a huge issue taking off from traffic lights, but a big issue when trying to take a gap like pulling out from a t junction or making a right hand turn, or entering a roundabout for example. It is exacerbated by drivers switching back and forth between buses that react normally and those with a delay.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

cdebru wrote: »

The crappy build is relatively minor to the delayed acceleration built in purposely to meet the euro 6 emissions, my understanding is it puts the bus into a low tick over when it stops to reduce emissions, when its time to move again it takes a while to get the engine back up to power, which results in a delay, not a huge issue taking off from traffic lights, but a big issue when trying to take a gap like pulling out from a t junction or making a right hand turn, or entering a roundabout for example. It is exacerbated by drivers switching back and forth between buses that react normally and those with a delay.

Not an ideal solution but handbrake on and give it a few revs and release the handbrake gets them fairly moving.

Marcusm

Very expensive, hybrid aspect rarely used, require a conductor to use the rear door functionality. The'd love Dublin to buy them as they need to increase production to amortise the design costs. Utlimately, they should have gone for gas power to reduce NOx emissions rather than a failed diesel hybrid. I suspect they won't be reordered under the impending new mayoralty (irrespective of the party).

L1011

Tying yourself to one manufacturer due to locking on a specific design is a sure-fire way to ensure cost spiral due to no competitive tendering process even being possible.

We just need to ensure we get dual door, potentially dual stair buses AND make sure the stops are suitable for the door use AND require the use of both doors. That can be done without a specific design.

GM228

cdebru wrote: »

The crappy build is relatively minor to the delayed acceleration built in purposely to meet the euro 6 emissions, my understanding is it puts the bus into a low tick over when it stops to reduce emissions, when its time to move again it takes a while to get the engine back up to power, which results in a delay, not a huge issue taking off from traffic lights, but a big issue when trying to take a gap like pulling out from a t junction or making a right hand turn, or entering a roundabout for example. It is exacerbated by drivers switching back and forth between buses that react normally and those with a delay.

Perhaps the delayed acceleration to keep emissions happy is a VW inspired trick!

Sorry couldn't resist!!

GM228

GM228

L1011 wrote: »

Tying yourself to one manufacturer due to locking on a specific design is a sure-fire way to ensure cost spiral due to no competitive tendering process even being possible.

We just need to ensure we get dual door, potentially dual stair buses AND make sure the stops are suitable for the door use AND require the use of both doors. That can be done without a specific design.

I remember (in the 90s) DB introduced (or was it re-introduced) for a while the dual door use-on at the front doors and off at the back doors rule, even after several weeks passengers still stood at the front to alight, some knew about it and didn't trust the driver to actually open the rear doors and some just ignored it. And when the drivers actually opened the rear doors all the buggies etc that were stored there fell onto the road as some users understood the rear doors to be the extra storage space!

It seemed to cause more problems than it solved.

GM228

dfx-

As a commuter, give me a reliable AV any day.

Losty Dublin

alcaline wrote: »

The new SG's have dangerous slow acceleration, try get out onto a busy roundabout, and some fool in a office somewhere believed it was a good idea to have constant air flow coming out of the demisters, eyes irritated and blood shot after a few minutes, build quality is not very good, plenty of squeaks and rattling , a step back from previous buses, a all round bad purchase.

I gather that SG's are not allocated on some routes whenever possible due to the lack of acceleration and grip at certain locations; the 9 being one such case.

hmmm

Something with either air conditioning or automatic windows would be ideal. Today was a classic example of a miserable DB experience - warm and wet, and being stuck on a bus with the windows firmly closed shut. Asking to open a window is met with a scowl by some guy who is sat there is a hat and duffel coat and is apparently frozen, while the rest of the bus sit there silently with sweat pouring down their foreheads.

alcaline

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I gather that SG's are not allocated on some routes whenever possible due to the lack of acceleration and grip at certain locations; the 9 being one such case.

It seems to be they rotate them around different routes, drivers getting annoyed with them and demand a change of bus, have yet to meet a driver who likes them. If you had to drive them everyday you would find plenty of reasons to defect them. Slow dangerous acceleration, always on demisters, drivers chair won't go back far enough, those 3 are constant complaints never mind the rest of things that can and do go wrong, a **** bus.

Dravokivich

My Da has mentioned there is one SG in particular drivers don't want to drive as the one numbered before and after it were both involved in accidents.

murphaph

MAN Lion's City DD has the essential features of the NBFL and I'd wager it's cheaper though less aesthetically pleasing. They work well where I live anyway.

LordSutch

murphaph wrote: »

MAN Lion's City DD has the essential features of the NBFL and I'd wager it's cheaper though less aesthetically pleasing. They work well where I live anyway.

What a beast :eek:

Its truly massive, like a small City on wheels.

Three axles, three sets of doors, two staircases, and the asthetics of one humungus shoe box

Fascinating.

PS; Is it Diesel powered or Hybrid, Gas or what?

devnull

Dravokivich wrote: »

My Da has mentioned there is one SG in particular drivers don't want to drive as the one numbered before and after it were both involved in accidents.

The order they were numbered was almost certainly not the order they were built in and a few would be in a production line at once so there is a good chance someone else built each of them.

murphaph

LordSutch wrote: »

PS; Is it Diesel powered or Hybrid, Gas or what?

The ones here are diesel. I am sure other variants are available or could be though.

loyatemu

GM228 wrote:

I remember (in the 90s) DB introduced (or was it re-introduced) for a while the dual door use-on at the front doors and off at the back doors rule, even after several weeks passengers still stood at the front to alight, some knew about it and didn't trust the driver to actually open the rear doors and some just ignored it. And when the drivers actually opened the rear doors all the buggies etc that were stored there fell onto the road as some users understood the rear doors to be the extra storage space!

GM228 wrote:

It seemed to cause more problems than it solved.

Dublin Bus users have trained/conditioned not to use the rear door for decades. Even if some drivers are using it you can be sure others are not so it's just simpler to go to the front...

GM228

loyatemu wrote: »

Dublin Bus users have trained/conditioned not to use the rear door for decades. Even if some drivers are using it you can be sure others are not so it's just simpler to go to the front...

Indeed and IIRC it didn't last too long in the 90s.

I remember passengers standing at rear doors regularly on a bus and the driver opening only the front making everyone fairly annoyed and the next day everyone would start walking to the front doors only for a driver to open the rear!

GM228

Cookie_Monster

Dravokivich wrote: »

My Da has mentioned there is one SG in particular drivers don't want to drive as the one numbered before and after it were both involved in accidents.

:rolleyes:

StreetLight

Dravokivich wrote: »

My Da has mentioned there is one SG in particular drivers don't want to drive as the one numbered before and after it were both involved in accidents.

Sorry, but I think that is just superstitious nonsense.

Dravokivich

StreetLight wrote: »

Sorry, but I think that is just superstitious nonsense.

I never said it wasn't. That's just the word going around in his garage.

dfx-

Dravokivich wrote: »

My Da has mentioned there is one SG in particular drivers don't want to drive as the one numbered before and after it were both involved in accidents.

SG9 has been off service for a year or so in Santry Garda Station, so I'll guess that's SG8/SG10 :P

Bit like the WVs that were destroyed by fire in numerical order - WV9/10/11.

StreetLight

Dravokivich wrote: »

I never said it wasn't. That's just the word going around in his garage.

If so, it's a pretty irrational way for adults to think.

punisher5112

A bus is a bus the only ones that won't be driven are ones with major safety defects that keep happening.

Plenty of buses still on the road after serious and some fatal collisions.

€300k odd of a vehicle to be just put aside can't be done unless the frame is put out.



One thing with gt and sg they all behave different to the next.

Gt is ok not the best ever and sg are shocking.

Dravokivich

StreetLight wrote: »

If so, it's a pretty irrational way for adults to think.

They seem to hate driving the SGs. People will look for something that follows a pattern to validate an opinion. Some drivers have pointed out a pattern there.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

My Da has mentioned there is one SG in particular drivers don't want to drive as the one numbered before and after it were both involved in accidents.

Not the first time I've heard something like that either. Drivers refused to go near AV32 after the Wellington Quay accident, it never re-entered service even though it wasn't seriously damaged.

alcaline

Dravokivich wrote: »

They seem to hate driving the SGs.

They are a bad bus, no if,ands or buts. If given a choice a driver would pick any other bus to drive.