Pay as you go top up charges

smash

Can someone tell me what the stance is regarding shops who are charging 30c per top up?

As far as I'm aware there's not supposed to be a charge and I've confronted 2 shops about it now, both of whom told me I didn't have to pay the charge when confronted.

There also seems to be a lot of outlets who will not accept payment by card.

Electric Ireland: David

Hi smash,

Thanks for your post.

smash wrote:

Can someone tell me what the stance is regarding shops who are charging 30c per top up?

Retailers should not be applying any additional surcharges to electricity or gas top-ups. Can you let us know (by private message if you prefer) the name and address of the retailers in question so we can follow up?

If it helps, you can make top-ups online here.

Should you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,
David

ScouseMouse

The shops get 19c for processing your top up.   This is not enough to pay for the service.  If you pay with a card, the bank charges are often more than that.

Esb will say it's wrong and contact Pay zone blames the shop, and it goes round in a big circle.  Where I am, we all stopped these cards as it was pointless.  There is nowhere left now in our village to do this.  It is causing serious problems for people who cannot top up early or late in the evening.

I challenge Esb to dispute this.

Electric Ireland: Brige N

Hi ScouseMouse,

Thanks for your message.

Shops should not be charging an additional surcharge for Pay As You Go top ups, regardless of the amount.

If you would like to provide us with the name and address (by private message if you prefer) of the stores in question we can escalate your query.

Should you wish to do so you can also top up online here.

If you have any other questions please let us know.

Thanks,
Brige

________

dhaughton99

smash wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the stance is regarding shops who are charging 30c per top up?

As far as I'm aware there's not supposed to be a charge and I've confronted 2 shops about it now, both of whom told me I didn't have to pay the charge when confronted.

There also seems to be a lot of outlets who will not accept payment by card.

Most shops in Dublin charge 50c.

ScouseMouse

Electric Ireland: Brige wrote: »

Hi ScouseMouse,

Thanks for your message.

Shops should not be charging an additional surcharge for Pay As You Go top ups, regardless of the amount.

If you would like to provide us with the name and address (by private message if you prefer) of the stores in question we can escalate your query.

Should you wish to do so you can also top up online here.

If you have any other questions please let us know.

Thanks,
Brige

________

Why shouldn't they?  If you would like to work for free, I am sure there are plenty of employers around that will take you on

Listen to what you are saying. (Or is it, review the script)

ScouseMouse

ScouseMouse wrote: »

The shops get 19c for processing your top up.   This is not enough to pay for the service.  If you pay with a card, the bank charges are often more than that.

Esb will say it's wrong and contact Pay zone blames the shop, and it goes round in a big circle.  Where I am, we all stopped these cards as it was pointless.  There is nowhere left now in our village to do this.  It is causing serious problems for people who cannot top up early or late in the evening.

I challenge Esb to dispute this.

Would you like to dispute this information ?

Electric Ireland: Una

Hi ScouseMouse,

Retailers are paid by a third party to provide the Pay As You Go top-up service, so we would recommend putting such a query to Payzone/PayPoint.

Unfortunately Electric Ireland has no control over these third parties, as this is a facility they provide through various participating retailers.

We would not be in a position to comment regarding a retailer's decision to add a charge to the top-up service - all we can advise customers who query this charge with us, is that it is not an Electric Ireland charge or authorised by Electric Ireland.

Una

________

ScouseMouse

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi ScouseMouse,

Retailers are paid by a third party to provide the Pay As You Go top-up service, so we would recommend putting such a query to Payzone/PayPoint.

Unfortunately Electric Ireland has no control over these third parties, as this is a facility they provide through various participating retailers.

We would not be in a position to comment regarding a retailer’s decision to add a charge to the top-up service – all we can advise customers who query this charge with us, is that it is not an Electric Ireland charge or authorised by Electric Ireland.

Una

________

ScouseMouse wrote: »

The shops get 19c for processing your top up.   This is not enough to pay for the service.  If you pay with a card, the bank charges are often more than that.

Esb will say it's wrong and contact Pay zone blames the shop, and it goes round in a big circle.  Where I am, we all stopped these cards as it was pointless.  There is nowhere left now in our village to do this.  It is causing serious problems for people who cannot top up early or late in the evening.

I challenge Esb to dispute this.

That is what I said several posts ago.  You blame payzone, payzone blames the shop and around in a big circle we go.  As I also said previously,  if you fancy working for free, give me a call and we can arrange something.

Have a good weekend.

smash

ScouseMouse wrote: »

The shops get 19c for processing your top up.   This is not enough to pay for the service.  If you pay with a card, the bank charges are often more than that.

Are you taking the piss? Most shops process hundreds and maybe thousands in top ups a week through esb, gas and mobile top ups. 19c is not enough of a cut to swipe a card through a machine?

Any shop that has informed me of the additional charge has always revoked it when I tell them they're not allowed charge extra for the service and ask to talk to a manager. When I've hit a wall with them I've stated that I'd pay the charge but want a receipt to say what it's for and at that point they revoke the charge too.

ScouseMouse

Its unfortunate you don't like the reality of whats happening.

As for a hundreds or thousands of transactions, I think you need to read that out to yourself again.

Have a good one!

smash

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Its unfortunate you don't like the reality of whats happening.

As for a hundreds or thousands of transactions, I think you need to read that out to yourself again.

Have a good one!

What's happening is that shops are scraping a bit extra off the top for extra profits. And yes there are hundreds, sometimes thousands, of these transactions going through every week. A busy shop in a city centre could easily sell well over a 100 mobile top ups a day.

ScouseMouse

smash wrote: »

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Its unfortunate you don't like the reality of whats happening.

As for a hundreds or thousands of transactions, I think you need to read that out to yourself again.

Have a good one!

What's happening is that shops are scraping a bit extra off the top for extra profits. And yes there are hundreds, sometimes thousands, of these transactions going through every week. A busy shop in a city centre could easily sell well over a 100 mobile top ups a day.

To earn 19c topping up a card with 50 euro, generates bank charges of 25c  (50c per hundred).    There are no profits to top up as you suggest.  Where I am, both shops have stopped these cards as unviable and we refer people to their energy company.  You should see peoples faces when they realise they have to wait for the big supermarkets to open to get a top up.

If you read back the thread, in posts 2 and 4, the reps say it should not be happening.  Yet in post 8 another rep Una says:

"Retailers are paid by a third party to provide the Pay As You Go top-up service, so we would recommend putting such a query to Payzone/PayPoint.

Unfortunately Electric Ireland has no control over these third parties, as this is a facility they provide through various participating retailers.

We would not be in a position to comment regarding a retailer's decision to add a charge to the top-up service - all we can advise customers who query this charge with us, is that it is not an Electric Ireland charge or authorised by Electric Ireland."

So even they cannot stand up and say its wrong.  Unfortunately, you bought into it.  Complain away anyway.

Have a good one.

smash

You're banking with the wrong bank!

ScouseMouse

AIB is 45c per 100 euro   source:     AIB business fees.
BOI is 60c per 100 euro   source:    BOI business fees
Ulster is 50c per 100 euro.  source:    Ulster bank business fees.


Please tell me how I am with the wrong bank.  Is that not most if not all of them.

I believe you dont realise the charges the "big bad robbing shopkeeper" has to pay.

Business pays through the nose, personal customers have a better deal.

So.  What bank do you suggest will do it cheaper.

I am all ears (or eyes in this case)

ScouseMouse

Apologies, I missed PTSB.  They are 50c per hundred as well.

Source:    PTSB business fees.

smash

ScouseMouse wrote: »

AIB is 45c per 100 euro   source:     AIB business fees.
BOI is 60c per 100 euro   source:    BOI business fees
Ulster is 50c per 100 euro.  source:    Ulster bank business fees.


Please tell me how I am with the wrong bank.  Is that not most if not all of them.

I believe you dont realise the charges the "big bad robbing shopkeeper" has to pay.

Business pays through the nose, personal customers have a better deal.

So.  What bank do you suggest will do it cheaper.

I am all ears (or eyes in this case)

Shops refuse to accept card payments for payzone purchases, but you do get a commission from the purchase, and it outweighs the charges associated with card payments ( http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/retail-shops-welcome-cut-in-cost-of-processing-debit-card-payments-1.2390383 ) so please explain to me how this is not viable, or how this can be considered with your cash lodgements charges?

The shops are also trying to charge 30c per top up disregarding the amount. €5 or €100 it's 30c per transaction. At 5 €20 mobile top ups you're getting €1.50 plus your payzone commission. This is more than covering your 45c per 100 by over 3x.

ScouseMouse

smash wrote: »

ScouseMouse wrote: »

AIB is 45c per 100 euro   source:     AIB business fees.
BOI is 60c per 100 euro   source:    BOI business fees
Ulster is 50c per 100 euro.  source:    Ulster bank business fees.


Please tell me how I am with the wrong bank.  Is that not most if not all of them.

I believe you dont realise the charges the "big bad robbing shopkeeper" has to pay.

Business pays through the nose, personal customers have a better deal.

So.  What bank do you suggest will do it cheaper.

I am all ears (or eyes in this case)

Shops refuse to accept card payments for payzone purchases, but you do get a commission from the purchase, and it outweighs the charges associated with card payments ( http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/retail-shops-welcome-cut-in-cost-of-processing-debit-card-payments-1.2390383 ) so please explain to me how this is not viable, or how this can be considered with your cash lodgements charges?

The shops are also trying to charge 30c per top up disregarding the amount. €5 or €100 it's 30c per transaction. At 5 €20 mobile top ups you're getting €1.50 plus your payzone commission. This is more than covering your 45c per 100 by over 3x.

Ok so.  Thats a good link, but it says nothing about cash handling fees, its about card use.  It also talks about budget measures BEING BROUGHT IN to incentivize card use.  But its still not in yet.  Here is another link with more detail,  Irish Indo 

It talks about cards having a cap so the shop does not have to pay big fees to the card companies.  Thats a good idea, but its not in yet and remains to be seen what will happen.  I cannot answer that till I see how it works out.

Listen, I am not interested in arguing with you. You are a normal person who does not know the ins and outs of whats happening.  I just take exception to companies like Electric Ireland giving misinformation like in this thread, which then leads you to believe something which is not right.    Its not the reps fault, they are employees and are saying what they are told to say.

I think I have said enough now.  I am surprised the mods allowed this to go this far.

Let me be the first to wish you MERRY CHRISTMAS !

smash

I've no interest in an argument either, and I can understand your frustration as a shop owner having to deal with payzone and their commission structure. I actually wouldn't give a toss about the additional charges as long as there's an alternate which doesn't cost extra.

I don't have a pay-as-you-go phone but decided to run with pay as you go electricity and gas as I had planned on renting the house. I subsequently decided against it and decided to keep the PAYG system. With the electricity it's fine as I can top up free on my mobile, but with the gas I have to go to a shop as there is no alternative and the charges annoy me no end.

"In the gas market, the electronic payments firm Payzone is required to monitor retailers and remove shops that charge customers more than the face value of gas."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/energy-regulator-tells-firms-to-enforce-ban-on-top-up-charges-1.1913627

I guess my issue is with the shop and your issue is with Payzone, with the energy regulator stepping in then it's either up to shop owners to renegotiate payzone transaction commission or Gas Networks Ireland to provide an easier way to top up. Both scenarios are beyond my control.

ScouseMouse

smash wrote: »

I've no interest in an argument either, and I can understand your frustration as a shop owner having to deal with payzone and their commission structure. I actually wouldn't give a toss about the additional charges as long as there's an alternate which doesn't cost extra.

I don't have a pay-as-you-go phone but decided to run with pay as you go electricity and gas as I had planned on renting the house. I subsequently decided against it and decided to keep the PAYG system. With the electricity it's fine as I can top up free on my mobile, but with the gas I have to go to a shop as there is no alternative and the charges annoy me no end.

"In the gas market, the electronic payments firm Payzone is required to monitor retailers and remove shops that charge customers more than the face value of gas."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/energy-regulator-tells-firms-to-enforce-ban-on-top-up-charges-1.1913627

I guess my issue is with the shop and your issue is with Payzone, with the energy regulator stepping in then it's either up to shop owners to renegotiate payzone transaction commission or Gas Networks Ireland to provide an easier way to top up. Both scenarios are beyond my control.

I agree with what you are saying but unfortunately you are buying into  the lip service.  This is caused by the companies not paying for the service.   That article is from the 1st September 2014.  It hasn't been done because they cannot do it.  If they tried, you wouldn't be able to get it anywhere.  They know this.  Anyway, back to work for me.

Good luck