Is Irish Water a Monopoly in breach of competition laws

Bobking

I would like to choose a different mains water provider. 

Main reasons are I dont need flouride or orthophosphate supplements and if I did I would get exact dosage.




Can you supply me with details of your competitors please ?

Irish Water: Amy A

Hi Bobking,

Irish Water is Ireland's national water utility, responsible for providing and developing water services throughout Ireland.

If you are connected to the public water mains for water and/or wastewater services, you are deemed an Irish Water customer and will receive bills for water services to your property.

Kind regards,
Amy.

galwayfellaBETA

I will never accept that I am a 'customer' of this rotten crony ridden attempt to rob the Irish people of the ownership of its water supply.

When my childrens water supply is protected from vultures, I will play a water bill, until then, shame on you all!


Bobking:
Put in a Reverse Osmosis filter to have the fluoride removed, that's that I had to do.

Bobking

Irish Water: Amy wrote: »

Hi Bobking,

Irish Water is Ireland's national water utility, responsible for providing and developing water services throughout Ireland.

If you are connected to the public water mains for water and/or wastewater services, you are deemed an Irish Water customer and will receive bills for water services to your property.

Kind regards,
Amy.

If I dont use the water from the mains will I not have to pay?
I could get a septic tank too.

Is your company currently in breach of competition laws?

I have a lifelong medical condition which requires water for treatment.
How much water does one person need for the essentials?
Would you be able to supply me with the bare amount of water for free please?

the dark phantom

No contract No consent

Bobking

the dark phantom wrote: »

No contract No consent

If I register only is that a contract?
I have to register as its not my house.

I haven't taken the suspiciously timed and short window "conservation grant".
I know how scammers operate and putting a clock on a decision to make a gain is a classic move.
It capitalises on the persons greed.

newacc2015

OP did you share the same frustration with lack of competition when we only had one electricity company and one gas company? Are you lobbying to get the postal market open to more competition since An Post currently has a monopoly on letter delivery?


If you google monopoly(I dont think you quite understand, so its a good start). You will see they are often necessary and result in better services/lower prices for consumers. It cheaper for the consumer if there is a single water distribution network. Thats why we only have one national grid

Bobking

newacc2015 wrote: »

OP did you share the same frustration with lack of competition when we only had one electricity company and one gas company? Are you lobbying to get the postal market open to more competition since An Post currently has a monopoly on letter delivery?


If you google monopoly(I dont think you quite understand, so its a good start). You will see they are often necessary and result in better services/lower prices for consumers. It cheaper for the consumer if there is a single water distribution network. Thats why we only have one national grid

Yes, monopoly on fuel provision is also a worry.
Read my post in Irish water thread if you want to know why.
So, you are a monopoly defender.
Did you protest Ryanair when they gave Aerlingus competition?
The cheek, Aerlingus were just about to provide better service and drop the price.
Are you lobbying for Topaz to own every petrol station?


I don't think you quite understand. It's not my law.
They are never necessary and result in worse service and higher prices.
There are many delivery services in the country which has lead to an post dropping parcel prices.

So go troll somewhere else please cause I don't think you understand.

BoJack Horseman

If your issue was with fluoride, a de-regulated water provision market wouldn't fix your problem.

There could be a dozen companies selling the product, but just one provider making it (like we have with electricity)..... So bitching about 'monopoly' is moot.

If fluoride was an issue for you, you would have been 'off the grid' for years now anyway and providing for yourself!

IW's competitors are those who take it upon themselves to supply themselves.... So, the solution is obvious.

This sounds like 'freeman' nonsense really.

newacc2015

Bobking wrote: »

newacc2015 wrote: »

OP did you share the same frustration with lack of competition when we only had one electricity company and one gas company? Are you lobbying to get the postal market open to more competition since An Post currently has a monopoly on letter delivery?


If you google monopoly(I dont think you quite understand, so its a good start). You will see they are often necessary and result in better services/lower prices for consumers. It cheaper for the consumer if there is a single water distribution network. Thats why we only have one national grid

Yes, monopoly on fuel provision is also a worry.
Read my post in Irish water thread if you want to know why.
So,  you are a monopoly defender.
Did you protest Ryanair when they gave Aerlingus competition?
The cheek, Aerlingus were just about to provide better service and drop the price.
Are you lobbying for Topaz to own every petrol station?


I don't think you quite understand. It's not my law.
They are never necessary and result in worse service and higher prices.  
There are many delivery services in the country which has lead to an post dropping parcel prices.

So go troll somewhere else please cause I don't think you understand.

I think every economist can justify a monopoly. So you think consumers would get better value with several companies supplying water to less than 2 million households? It would result in higher prices and it would actually be an oligopoly(you will need to google it). Meaning all of them will take each others prices into account and there will be no real competition. A bit like how all mobile phone companies dont really vary in price herer

What does a petrol station got to do with this? Its providing a totally different service to water. Its literally just the retail end of a vast industry. Water distribution and supply is a lengthy process.There is no retail end involved. Do you believe we would have a higher quality, lower priced electricity distribution network if Eirgrid was abolished tomorrow and we had 2/3 companies trying do the same job on this vast island with population density?

Here is an extremely basic school explantation of monopolies. Funnily enough their example of a good monopoly is a water company

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/265/economics/are-monopolies-always-bad/

Bobking

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

This sounds like 'freeman' nonsense really.

Then dont reply.
I am trying to get answers from Irish Water.
I am asked to pay for something and I am communicating with the provider to learn more.
I can go out my front door and ask people opinions if thats what I want.

What age am I? Why would I be providing my own flouride free water years ago?

More personal attacks from newacc2015 telling me what I think. (youll have to pompously google strawman no doubt)
You ask me about post, gas and esb and then ask what petrol has to do with this.
I made the mistake of engaging in passing conversation, thats what.
Youre link to a blog is dangerous because although I believe the logic is correct the premise is incorrect.
Tejvan Pettinger, the owner and writer of the blog, gets away with this because he presents a readers question.
And yes it does look like its aimed at schoolchildren making it all the more dangerous.

The correct answer is profit for firms, corrupt govenments tolerate monopolies for profit and all governments provide services to tax payers that firms cannot compete with.

Our government has competition laws which do not tolerate monopolies.

I will not reply to any more strawmen or personal attacks.

I will reply to an Irish water representative so please ignore the argumentative posts.
Thanks.

BoJack Horseman

Then dont reply.

Self-answerable rants amuse me.

I am trying to get answers from Irish Water.

No you aren't.
You are looking to pick a fight.

Why would I be providing my own flouride free water years ago?

If flouride is an issue for you, you would have, or you would do so now.
Unless its only an issue since the creation of IW? (which would be odd).
In which case your gripe is nothing about flouride at all.... more just an opportunity to throw a political jab....

The correct answer is profit for firms, corrupt governments tolerate monopolies for profit and all governments provide services to tax payers that firms cannot compete with.

.... I guess it was!

Our government has competition laws which do not tolerate monopolies.

I think you should read up on that.
Monopolies exist, their illegality determined if they are proven to inhibit competition.
Hopefully the Irish government will de-regulate the market and allow other utilities to re-sell water to the consumer.
But, just because the market is not yet de-regulated does not render the provider an illegal monopoly

If the government do, it won't make any difference though to your issues with flouride, whether there is one water utility or 20, flouride would have to be added anyway once its ordered by the government.
It would have nothing to do with IW or whatever provider there was.

Best thing for you to do is to disconnect from the mains & source your water yourself.
That is your only option and what hundreds of thousands of houses already do.
Then you have no more icky flouride.

GrayFox208

Oh dear god...
Right listen to yourself for a start. You have to pay your bills right? Everyone does, it's part of being an adult. If you weren't happy with how the ESB supplied electricity you wouldn't refuse to pay your electric bill, well you probably would but as with Irish water you're not going to be using the service. I honestly can't understand what it is with people like you whining about water bills you're not going to get out of paying your bills it's a few quid every 3 months just stop the moaning. No one bloody likes to pay bills but you are stuck with Irish water even if another company was supplying water, as is the case with electricity you'd still be getting it from Irish water but paying someone else.


By the way if you don't want to drink the water get them to shut off your mains buy bottled water and use a bucket or dustbin as a toilet, newsflash though; no one cares.

newacc2015

Bobking wrote: »

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

This sounds like 'freeman' nonsense really.

You ask me about post, gas and esb and then ask what petrol has to do with this.



The correct answer is profit for firms, corrupt govenments tolerate monopolies for profit and all governments provide services to tax payers that firms cannot compete with.

Our government has competition laws which do not tolerate monopolies.

I will not reply to any more strawmen or personal attacks.

I will reply to an Irish water representative so please ignore the argumentative posts.
Thanks.

I mentioned gas and electricity, as like water they are supplied across a single network for economies of scale. Retail sales of anything is not a like for like comparison as its not a comparable industry. There is no distribution network for petrol.

Have you researched any other water companies? Like the fact in nearly every other countries that a single company provides the water for the area. There isnt several water companies providing water, as there is nothing to be gained from it. 

Whats your opinion on Eirgrid? The single company that maintains and provides the national grid. Do you think they are anti-compeitive, as they have no competition ? That we should have several companies providing a more expensive and less well funded national grid system, as they are competing to provide the same service as thats more competitive? 

Boards.ie: Niamh

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