2015 MVP Candidates

D9Male

So we are a fair chunk of the way through the season. Who do you think is a shout for MVP?

The big two quarterbacks are obvious places to start. Brady is playing lights out any time I have seen him, and it is pretty impressive what Rodgers is doing without his favourite targets. I would shade it to Brady. I haven't seen any betting, but I would imagine these two are way ahead of the field.

But on numbers, and performances I have seen so far, I would have to give a shout out for my old friend Andy Dalton. The Red Rifle is absolutely smoking this season. I think he might struggle to keep his current level up, but if he can he is right in the conversation. A completely different QB, but playing nearly as well is Cam Newton. He has been seriously clutch, running superbly and winning games with mediocre weapons.

And how about other positions? Freeman is punching in touchdowns, running big plays, catching 60yds a game. Ivory is shredding defences. Pick any one of Denver's defence, but let's go with Ware and Miller for the hell of it. Matthews has been a beast for Green Bay.

Any thoughts?

eagle eye

Right now I think Tom Brady is leading the way just ahead of Dalton and Rodgers.

nasty_crash

Outside of QB its hard to pick because they need to have a stellar year

MVP
Brady
Dalton
Rodgers
Cam

Offensive MVP
Freeman
Ivory
Julio Jones
Hopkins

Defensive MVP
Aaron Donald
Clay Matthews
Demarcus Ware
Von Miller

Comeback player of the year
Chris Johnson!!!

D9Male

eagle eye wrote: »

Right now I think Tom Brady is leading the way just ahead of Dalton and Rodgers.

That is precisely how I see it at the moment.

Knex*

Comfortably Brady for me, at the moment.

Side note, what Hopkins is doing is absolutely insane, and arguably more impressive than Brady's work, considering the situations. He won't get the MVP credit for it, though.

D9Male

I don't see how anybody could be comfortably ahead of the Red Rifle at the moment.

Knex*

D9Male wrote: »

I don't see how anybody could be comfortably ahead of the Red Rifle at the moment.

Perhaps, but I just feel like that Pats offense is a lot more unstoppable, and I do think Brady is playing better. He's on his own level this year.

SameOleJay

It’s neck and neck between Brady and Rodgers for me and the bookies reflect that.

Dalton and Cam need to be respected for what they’ve done but Cam’s numbers, which are pretty pedestrian, and Dalton’s surrounding talent count against them. Dalton has one of the best surrounding casts I’ve ever seen. Exceptional pass protection, 2 good runners, an elite tight-end and an outstanding set of wideouts.

Outside the quarterbacks there are plenty of outstanding performers but no-one who will sniff MVP. The honey-badger, Hopkins and Bell all look especially good.

Knex*

The Bengals have the best roster in football. Its frightening.

SameOleJay

In the last 4 yours they’ve averaged 10 wins. That’ll likely be bettered this time around.

To maintain that consistency without anything resembling a hof quarterback is amazing. Their drafting and roster management is exceptional.

Son Of A Vidic

No matter how brilliant Brady is playing he'll not be winning the MVP. He's been passed up before and I expect it to happen again. In fact, Peyton would probably win it quicker this year than he would......:pac:

D9Male

The way this year is going, Peyton would fumble it. But his D would get it back for him.

glued

If Brady can finish the season in the same form then he'll definitely get it. Dalton has improved but the Bengals roster is amazing. Brady is doing more with a lot less IMO.

Paully D

Tom Brady ahead of Aaron Rodgers in second for me at the moment. It'll be neck and neck between them for the duration I'd imagine.

When all is said and done Andy Dalton has about as much chance as me of winning the award really.

matthew8

No matter how well Dalton does he won't get it. Brady or Rodgers right now is much of a muchness. Their stats are similar and they've both done pretty much everything asked of them. Brady's probably got the better receiving corps right now but Rodgers has probably had better protection. Whoever's team ends up with the better record will probably decide the award.

AMGer

Probably will be Brady, but Cam has to be up there

HigginsJ

Brady is great and prob the favourite if not for what has gone before. Rodgers & the Red Rifle have been fantastic too. I know Dalton has probably the most balanced surrounding cast in football but he is making big plays in big moments.

Only way you will get it on D is breaking Strahans record and taking your team to the playoffs so can't see anyone there. (The Broncos D collectively for putting a team with one of the worst QB's in the league at 6-0 but no one player is standing out)

It'll come down to Rodgers/Brady and would be hard to argue against either way.

raze_them_all_

matthew8 wrote: »

No matter how well Dalton does he won't get it. Brady or Rodgers right now is much of a muchness. Their stats are similar and they've both done pretty much everything asked of them. Brady's probably got the better receiving corps right now but Rodgers has probably had better protection. Whoever's team ends up with the better record will probably decide the award.

He spends half the game running for his life!!


Brady is mvp for me so far

matthew8

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

He spends half the game running for his life!!


Brady is mvp for me so far

He spends a lot of time running for his life because he holds onto the ball a long time. I'm sure he's doing that partly because guys are struggling to get open but the line protects well.

adrian522

Seems to have all day to throw any time I've him this season.

Jolly Red Giant

HigginsJ wrote: »

(The Broncos D collectively for putting a team with one of the worst QB's in the league at 6-0 but no one player is standing out)

Von Miller has been a destructive tornado - he is so dangerous that teams are overcompensating against him leading to the rest of the Broncos D having a field day - and Miller is still getting to the QB.

D9Male

It seems that this will go to Tommy Touchdown or Superman, with Newton the favourite ahead of Brady with the bookies.

Palmer and Peterson the only other ones that have staked a realistic claim, but the two favourites have had better years, particularly given the lack of firepower around them.

How about the other awards?

Offensive Rookie will probably go to Winston or Amari Cooper, but Gurley and Mariota are a big game or two away from doing it.
Defensive Rookie will probably go to Chiefs' corner Peters. The Packers' safety (name escapes me) has had a good year from what I have seen, too.
Defensive Player of the Year would be Donald or a Panther (Norman or Kuechly I guess). I haven't seen much of the Rams, but Donald has been getting rave reviews and I guess he will be the man.

Beefy78

Newton or Palmer for me.

Knex*

Hate to say it... But Russell Wilson is putting on a serious case for MVP in recent weeks.

He's, for once, not actually getting the attention he deserves.

Beefy78

Good shout. Considering the lack of protection his line gives him and the lack of quality receiving options he's putting in some serious numbers.

raze_them_all_

Knex. wrote: »

Hate to say it... But Russell Wilson is putting on a serious case for MVP in recent weeks.

He's, for once, not actually getting the attention he deserves.

Recent weeks where as Cam and Brady have been doing it for 13 weeks now. They are the only two that should be talked about tbh

I think it's clearly cam to be honest and if be shocked if he does not win it

jman0war

Cam by a country mile

Beefy78

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Recent weeks where as Cam and Brady have been doing it for 13 weeks now. They are the only two that should be talked about tbh

Carson Palmer has done it every week too. His throwing numbers are better than both Brady and Cam this year and he has produced in every game.

I expect it to be Cam but Palmer deserves to be in the conversation.

adrian522

Not Really

| Yards|TD|INT|YPA|Rating
Cam |3062|28|10|7.71|96.9|
Brady|4138|33|6|8.84|103.6|
Palmer|4003|31|9|7.77|107.2|

Pretty close, but Brady has more TD's, less INT's and more yards.

Obviously with Cam you have to include rushing too (480Yards plus 7 TDs)

Also there is more to consider than cold stats, but for my money, given his receiving corp etc I'd go with Newton.

Beefy78

Beefy78 wrote: »

Carson Palmer has done it every week too. His throwing numbers are better than both Brady and Cam this year and he has produced in every game.

I expect it to be Cam but Palmer deserves to be in the conversation.

Palmers been outstanding but I think he has had far more weapons around him than the other two same reason I never thought dalton would win it

Knex*

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Recent weeks where as Cam and Brady have been doing it for 13 weeks now. They are the only two that should be talked about tbh

I don't think Cam has ever played to the standard that Wilson has over the last 4 games, tbh.

Personally, I think Brady should win it. But if Panthers finish 16-0, my money is on Cam.

He has improved his game a fair bit the last few weeks, too, to be fair.

matthew8

If the Panthers go 16-0 then Newton wins the award, end of story. For me though Brady has been very much the best QB in the league this year, putting up the usual stats he puts up but with an offensive line that's let him down at several times this season as well as WRs dropping perfectly good throws. Wilson has had to put up with an even worse line this year, especially early in the season and I would have had him second behind Brady but he's probably out of it with his team collecting 5 losses. Palmer might have the best stats but he just lets himself down at times with idiotic throws into double coverage and the like. Though Newton has been excellent, the question I ask myself is would Brady be 13-0 in the same team and I don't think there's much doubt that he would.

eagle eye

Luke Kuechly should get it imo. Cam is doing a decent job for them but Kuechly has been Quarterbacking that defense and has been exceptional as an individual player too.

Brady for me has been the best QB in the league to this point. Carson Palmer is playing the best football of his career. I'd have both of them ahead of Cam.

matthew8

matthew8 wrote: »

If the Panthers go 16-0 then Newton wins the award, end of story. For me though Brady has been very much the best QB in the league this year, putting up the usual stats he puts up but with an offensive line that's let him down at several times this season as well as WRs dropping perfectly good throws. Wilson has had to put up with an even worse line this year, especially early in the season and I would have had him second behind Brady but he's probably out of it with his team collecting 5 losses. Palmer might have the best stats but he just lets himself down at times with idiotic throws into double coverage and the like. Though Newton has been excellent, the question I ask myself is would Brady be 13-0 in the same team and I don't think there's much doubt that he would.

brady has had a better offence around him this year than cam ted ginn jr is his lead receiver

eagle eye

Franco Proud Dove wrote: »

brady has had a better offence around him this year than cam ted ginn jr is his lead receiver

Really? Carolina's offensive line is a hell of a lot better than New England's. If Brady was given the time Cam gets he'd be murdering teams.

I can't believe that Cam is such a certain MVP in the media when he is only completing 58.8% of his passes.

Brady's completion % is 64.3 which is exactly the same as Palmer.

The TD to Int ratio favours Brady with 35 tds to 6 ints, compared with Newton at 33-10 and Palmer at 32-9.

I'm not saying Newton shouldn't be in the conversation but to be a sure fire MVP is a bit much for me. As I said a couple of days ago, Kuechly is the guy, for me he has been the most important player for the Panthers this year closely followed by Newton.

Palmer has a season QB rating of 106.7, Brady is at 103.8, Newton is at 98.9.

raze_them_all_

Newton is keeping his team undefeated and that counts for a **** ton

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Really? Carolina's offensive line is a hell of a lot better than New England's. If Brady was given the time Cam gets he'd be murdering teams.

I can't believe that Cam is such a certain MVP in the media when he is only completing 58.8% of his passes.

Brady's completion % is 64.3 which is exactly the same as Palmer.

The TD to Int ratio favours Brady with 35 tds to 6 ints, compared with Newton at 33-10 and Palmer at 32-9.

I'm not saying Newton shouldn't be in the conversation but to be a sure fire MVP is a bit much for me. As I said a couple of days ago, Kuechly is the guy, for me he has been the most important player for the Panthers this year closely followed by Newton.

Palmer has a season QB rating of 106.7, Brady is at 103.8, Newton is at 98.9.

i wouldnt say surefire i just think bradys offence is better you can say brady would be better with the panthers o-line but i say cam would be better with gronk in particular and for a lot of the year edelman. youve also completely ignored that cam has run for over 500 yards and 7 tds so he's actually been responsible for 40 tds.

i agree with you with regards someone like kuechly by the way but iv given up on a defensive player being given a shot at it watt should have won at least one and if he hasn't i can't see someone else doing it

Knex*

Until recently I would have been annoyed at Newton winning it, as I don't think his level of play was there, despite the unbeaten streak, but the last few weeks he's picked it up.

I still think Brady deserves it more, but its going to be Cam's, I feel. I'd personally have Palmer ahead of him this year as well.

eagle eye

Franco Proud Dove wrote: »

i wouldnt say surefire i just think bradys offence is better you can say brady would be better with the panthers o-line but i say cam would be better with gronk in particular and for a lot of the year edelman. youve also completely ignored that cam has run for over 500 yards and 7 tds so he's actually been responsible for 40 tds.

i agree with you with regards someone like kuechly by the way but iv given up on a defensive player being given a shot at it watt should have won at least one and if he hasn't i can't see someone else doing it

I wouldn't agree that Watt should have won it because imo his performances were more individual whereas Kuechly has been exceptional both as an individual player and as Captain of the defense. The leadership has to come into it and it's why the award normally goes to a QB. Cam certainly has been a leader but for me Kuechly has won them games when the offense wasn't getting it done and through both individual play and as the Captain and organiser of his D.

Also Cam's favourite target is a pretty decent tight end by the name of Greg Olsen who I think would do just fine with Brady.

D9Male

eagle eye wrote: »

Really? Carolina's offensive line is a hell of a lot better than New England's. If Brady was given the time Cam gets he'd be murdering teams.

I can't believe that Cam is such a certain MVP in the media when he is only completing 58.8% of his passes.

Brady's completion % is 64.3 which is exactly the same as Palmer.

The TD to Int ratio favours Brady with 35 tds to 6 ints, compared with Newton at 33-10 and Palmer at 32-9.

I'm not saying Newton shouldn't be in the conversation but to be a sure fire MVP is a bit much for me. As I said a couple of days ago, Kuechly is the guy, for me he has been the most important player for the Panthers this year closely followed by Newton.

Palmer has a season QB rating of 106.7, Brady is at 103.8, Newton is at 98.9.

I know you know this, but when talking statistics, we should note that Cam has 7 rushing touchdowns, 47 rushing first downs, 580 rushing yards at 4.9 YPA.

I don't agree that Cam should be a shoo-in for the award, but quoting his passing rating is not going to do him justice when he is more of a dual-threat QB than the other two.

For what it is worth, I would find it very hard to pick between the three. Brady's OL has not been good this year, and his numbers are staggering considering his lack of offensive weapons.

nasty_crash

Cam has to win it - who is he throwing too - Ted Ginn - Devin Fuchess! Brady has been class too and has injuries to get over - edelman etc. Panthers lost Benjamin at the start of the year - stewart out last week - and not having a wide reciever core as initially strong as NE. They both have Solid TE's to start with Gronk being better than Olsen but Olsen is having a good year. Brady will be just behind Cam but if Panthers go 16-0 there is no way he is not going to win MVP

eagle eye

D9Male wrote: »

I know you know this, but when talking statistics, we should note that Cam has 7 rushing touchdowns, 47 rushing first downs, 580 rushing yards at 4.9 YPA.

I don't agree that Cam should be a shoo-in for the award, but quoting his passing rating is not going to do him justice when he is more of a dual-threat QB than the other two.

For what it is worth, I would find it very hard to pick between the three. Brady's OL has not been good this year, and his numbers are staggering considering his lack of offensive weapons.

Yeah I'm well aware of what Cam has done on the ground but I'm just pointing out how far behind the other two he is in the passing department.

Again I think Kuechly should be MVP but sadly that is never going to happen.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that Watt should have won it because imo his performances were more individual whereas Kuechly has been exceptional both as an individual player and as Captain of the defense. The leadership has to come into it and it's why the award normally goes to a QB. Cam certainly has been a leader but for me Kuechly has won them games when the offense wasn't getting it done and through both individual play and as the Captain and organiser of his D.

Also Cam's favourite target is a pretty decent tight end by the name of Greg Olsen who I think would do just fine with Brady.

but who is there outside of olsen brady has had 3 weapons this year that patriots fans would argue should be pro bowlers had they stayed healthy the panthers have had maby greg olson and thats it really

with regards watt v kuechly i think its less a leadership thing and more a luke k has far far better talent around him than watt has had.

bruschi

D9Male wrote: »

I know you know this, but when talking statistics, we should note that Cam has 7 rushing touchdowns, 47 rushing first downs, 580 rushing yards at 4.9 YPA.

I don't agree that Cam should be a shoo-in for the award, but quoting his passing rating is not going to do him justice when he is more of a dual-threat QB than the other two.

For what it is worth, I would find it very hard to pick between the three. Brady's OL has not been good this year, and his numbers are staggering considering his lack of offensive weapons.

Brady also has 3 rushing TD's if you want to throw them into the mix too.

Franco Proud Dove wrote: »

but who is there outside of olsen brady has had 3 weapons this year that patriots fans would argue should be pro bowlers had they stayed healthy the panthers have had maby greg olson and thats it really

with regards watt v kuechly i think its less a leadership thing and more a luke k has far far better talent around him than watt has had.

I'm assuming Gronk and probably Edelman. Who is the other pro bowler candidate? I dont really rate the pro bowl voting much anyway, considering the Patriots centre David Andrews finished second in the overall voting, yet has since been benched for being crap.

As for Edelman, as good an all as he is, and I do absolutely rate him, you have to ask is he a top 4 AFC WR. Is he ahead of Antonio Brown, Deandre Hopkins, AJ Green, even Brandon Marshall and a good few more what I consider true wide receivers? I dont think so. Would I swap him for any of them? Some of them, not all. It doesnt mean I think he is worthy of pro bowl though, he is valuable to his team in what he does, it does not necessarily translate to other league stats or comparisons. Value to a team, and pro bowl to me are different things.

as for the initial question, I think it will be hard for Cam to be topped now. He is making the plays at the memorable time of the season, and if they go unbeaten, it will be hard not to give it to him.

eagle eye

Franco Proud Dove wrote: »

but who is there outside of olsen brady has had 3 weapons this year that patriots fans would argue should be pro bowlers had they stayed healthy the panthers have had maby greg olson and thats it really

with regards watt v kuechly i think its less a leadership thing and more a luke k has far far better talent around him than watt has had.

You see this is more of it. Name one WR who has left the Patriots after playing with Brady and done well after going to another team? You'll find it hard to come up with one because to the best of my knowledge it has never happened.
Thing is people see what Edelman does and think he is just an awesome receiver but a lot of it is down to Brady and his accuracy. Sure Edelman makes some great plays but I don't think he would be the same player playing on any other team.

Just look at what happened to Deion Branch when he left, look at Wes Welker.

If you go by the draft then Cam Newton has a much stronger set of receivers than Brady. Brady has two undrafted(Edelman, Amendola) and a second rounder(Gronk), third rounder(LaFell) as his primary receiving targets. And there have been injuries, notably LaFell for the first six games, and Edelman for the last five, as well as Gronk for one game.

Newton has Ginn(top ten pick), Funchess(second round), Cotchery(fourth round) and Olsen(first round) as his main receiving options.

I put it to you that Brady would make Newton's receivers play to the level that people expected when they were drafted.

bruschi

bruschi wrote: »

I'm assuming Gronk and probably Edelman. Who is the other pro bowler candidate? I dont really rate the pro bowl voting much anyway, considering the Patriots centre David Andrews finished second in the overall voting, yet has since been benched for being crap.

i had quite a few pats fans telling me dion lewis would be in the pro bowl convo before he was injured

As for Edelman, as good an all as he is, and I do absolutely rate him, you have to ask is he a top 4 AFC WR. Is he ahead of Antonio Brown, Deandre Hopkins, AJ Green, even Brandon Marshall and a good few more what I consider true wide receivers? I dont think so. Would I swap him for any of them? Some of them, not all. It doesnt mean I think he is worthy of pro bowl though, he is valuable to his team in what he does, it does not necessarily translate to other league stats or comparisons. Value to a team, and pro bowl to me are different things.

not the point i was making the very fact that you have to ask if he is top 4 in the afc puts him just a tad ahead of ted ginn jr. or devin funches


as for the initial question, I think it will be hard for Cam to be topped now. He is making the plays at the memorable time of the season, and if they go unbeaten, it will be hard not to give it to him.

.

adrian522

eagle eye wrote: »

You see this is more of it. Name one WR who has left the Patriots after playing with Brady and done well after going to another team? You'll find it hard to come up with one because to the best of my knowledge it has never happened.
Thing is people see what Edelman does and think he is just an awesome receiver but a lot of it is down to Brady and his accuracy. Sure Edelman makes some great plays but I don't think he would be the same player playing on any other team.

Just look at what happened to Deion Branch when he left, look at Wes Welker.

If you go by the draft then Cam Newton has a much stronger set of receivers than Brady. Brady has two undrafted(Edelman, Amendola) and a second rounder(Gronk), third rounder(LaFell) as his primary receiving targets. And there have been injuries, notably LaFell for the first six games, and Edelman for the last five, as well as Gronk for one game.

Newton has Ginn(top ten pick), Funchess(second round), Cotchery(fourth round) and Olsen(first round) as his main receiving options.

I put it to you that Brady would make Newton's receivers play to the level that people expected when they were drafted.

That is pretty irrelevant in fairness. Where players are drafted doesn't really tally with how they perform. Ginn just hasn't been a good player at all his whole career until this season.
Gronkowski is a much better player than Olsen, the round he was drafted in just makes it a very good pick, can't really be used to say that Olsen is better or that Newton has a better class of receivers because he doesn't really.

raze_them_all_

eagle eye wrote: »

You see this is more of it. Name one WR who has left the Patriots after playing with Brady and done well after going to another team? You'll find it hard to come up with one because to the best of my knowledge it has never happened.
Thing is people see what Edelman does and think he is just an awesome receiver but a lot of it is down to Brady and his accuracy. Sure Edelman makes some great plays but I don't think he would be the same player playing on any other team.

Just look at what happened to Deion Branch when he left, look at Wes Welker.

If you go by the draft then Cam Newton has a much stronger set of receivers than Brady. Brady has two undrafted(Edelman, Amendola) and a second rounder(Gronk), third rounder(LaFell) as his primary receiving targets. And there have been injuries, notably LaFell for the first six games, and Edelman for the last five, as well as Gronk for one game.

Newton has Ginn(top ten pick), Funchess(second round), Cotchery(fourth round) and Olsen(first round) as his main receiving options.

I put it to you that Brady would make Newton's receivers play to the level that people expected when they were drafted.

To be fair to welker he was what 31 when he went to denver and had a good first season there, then concussions and injuries got to him

eagle eye

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

To be fair to welker he was what 31 when he went to denver and had a good first season there, then concussions and injuries got to him

He still had only about half the yardage in that first season in Denver that he had in his last couple of seasons in New England.

raze_them_all_

eagle eye wrote: »

He still had only about half the yardage in that first season in Denver that he had in his last couple of seasons in New England.

as he wasnt needed as the security blanket, iirc They had quite the crowd of recievers and TE's then?