Why do I keep getting charged €1.05 instead of €2.05 with my Leapcard?

DareGod

On three occasions since I began using my Leapcard 2 months ago, I have been charged €1.05 instead of €2.05. i.e. I have asked for a €2.05 fare and then when I check it online, I've been billed only €1.05.

To my knowledge, there isn't even a €1.05 fare in existence.

What's going on here?

newacc2015

DareGod wrote: »

On three occasions since I began using my Leapcard 2 months ago, I have been charged €1.05 instead of €2.05. i.e. I have asked for a €2.05 fare and then when I check it online, I've been billed only €1.05.

To my knowledge, there isn't even a €1.05 fare in existence.

What's going on here?

Have you had another journey within 90mins of the 1.05 fare? If so, you get €1 off the second fare

DareGod

newacc2015 wrote: »

Have you had another journey within 90mins of the 1.05 fare? If so, you get €1 off the second fare

Yes I have. Cool, I didn't know that. Thanks!

spurious

A legacy of the great Travel 90 ticket, which was one of the best things DB introduced before Leap.

guylikeme

Dublin Bus getting praise. What a weird day. Even the doc couldn't have predicted that!

newacc2015

guylikeme wrote: »

Dublin Bus getting praise. What a weird day. Even the doc couldn't have predicted that!

Ill give them praise for the fact they have wifi, graffiti free buses and the real time app. If they could just get a hint of customer service such as answering their questions on the phone truthful or actually getting their buses to run to schedule. They would be a perfect bus service. But they are actually more preoccupied with providing a better standard of comfort, rather than a decent service

alcaline

newacc2015 wrote: »

Ill give them praise for the fact they have wifi, graffiti free buses and the real time app. If they could just get a hint of customer service such as answering their questions on the phone truthful or actually getting their buses to run to schedule. They would be a perfect bus service. But they are actually more preoccupied with providing a better standard of comfort, rather than a decent service

He is something that will blow your mind!
Dublin Bus exceed all the targets set for them in the contract drawn up by the NTA, having done this they are still getting grief from the public, now maybe I'm crazy but is the level of service that you are not happy with the fault of the NTA and the level of service that it set in the contract?

newacc2015

alcaline wrote: »

He is something that will blow your mind!
Dublin Bus exceed all the targets set for them in the contract drawn up by the NTA, having done this they are still getting grief from the public, now maybe I'm crazy but is the level of service that you are not happy with the fault of the NTA and the level of service that it set in the contract?

I regularly see 2/3 buses travelling together. DB say its the traffic, luas workers etc. If its regular occurrence change the time table at the terminal so it doesnt happen daily.

I lived in Munich and everyday the bus came like clock work. If buses can follow timetables in other cites I dont know how it cant be impossible in Dublin

markpb

alcaline wrote:

He is something that will blow your mind! Dublin Bus exceed all the targets set for them in the contract drawn up by the NTA, having done this they are still getting grief from the public, now maybe I'm crazy but is the level of service that you are not happy with the fault of the NTA and the level of service that it set in the contract?

The NTA set the minimum standard expected. Congratulations on exceeding that

alcaline

newacc2015 wrote: »

I regularly see 2/3 buses travelling together. DB say its the traffic, luas workers etc. If its regular occurrence change the time table at the terminal so it doesnt happen daily.

Mind blowing fact of the day #2
Dublin Bus have no power to change a timetable, this awesome power resides in the hands of the NTA.

newacc2015

alcaline wrote: »

Mind blowing fact of the day #2
Dublin Bus have no power to change a timetable, this awesome power resides in the hands of the NTA.

Care to share a third?

Hollister11

If the prices were cut by 30% and there were more frequent buses it would be a top class services.

I would have no issue if fares were further subsidised.

markpb

alcaline wrote: »

Mind blowing fact of the day #2
Dublin Bus have no power to change a timetable, this awesome power resides in the hands of the NTA.

alcaline wrote: »

you are not happy with the fault of the NTA and the level of service that it set in the contract?

I've noticed a lot of posts like this from DB staff recently. You're absolutely factually correct but you're missing the point. When someone complains about Dublin Bus, they mean the city bus service provided to them. They don't care that the staff do one thing, the management do another, that the NTA set the service levels while DoT provide the funding and DCC, FCC, SDCC and DLRCC are responsible for the bus lanes. All they care about is the level of service they receive. The internal workings of all that is (and should be) irrelevant to the guy getting on the bus.

Is this unfair to the grunts driving the bus and are frustrated by what they know? Yes. Does posting in boards do anything about it? Nope.

Victor

alcaline wrote: »

He is something that will blow your mind!
Dublin Bus exceed all the targets set for them in the contract drawn up by the NTA, having done this they are still getting grief from the public, now maybe I'm crazy but is the level of service that you are not happy with the fault of the NTA and the level of service that it set in the contract?

The current levels of service were originally set in a hush-hush fashion by the Department of Transport (and its predecessors) with Dublin Bus / CIÉ and bore no resemblance to anything that was customer-orientated or commercially-orientated. Over the last few years, things have gradually been tweaked and something resembling a customer-orientated and commercially-orientated contract will be in place for 2016. Had such a contract been put in place when the NTA took charge, the CIÉ group of companies would have been in fundamental breach of contract.

alcaline

newacc2015 wrote: »

Care to share a third?

Mind blowing fact of the day #3
There is a chance that all DB bus stops in D'olier st and Westmoreland St will be taken out of service by the 27 oct if DCC don't get the finger out and do something about the coaches parked there.

alcaline

markpb wrote: »

Is this unfair to the grunts driving the bus and are frustrated by what they know? Yes. Does posting in boards do anything about it? Nope.

Of course something good came come of letting the public know what is happening, if just one angry pissed off passenger now knows why the bus did not run as expected they might not get on the bus and tear a strip of the driver for something that has feck all to do with the driver or Dublin Bus.
Do you think drivers like pissed of passengers going off on a rant? If the public know who to get angry with then maybe something will change, because at the moment you are angry at the wrong people and feck all will change.

newacc2015

alcaline wrote: »

Of course something good came come of letting the public know what is happening, if just one angry pissed off passenger now knows why the bus did not run as expected they might not get on the bus and tear a strip of the driver for something that has feck all to do with the driver or Dublin Bus.
Do you think drivers like pissed of passengers going off on a rant? If the public know who to get angry with then maybe something will change, because at the moment you are angry at the wrong people and feck all will change.

Generally in a company you call a Customer service representation to explain how the your standards of service werent great. In Dublin Bus you can phone HQ to complain about their extremely low standard of service. If you are luckly they answer the phone. You usually get every single excuse possible about why the bus was late or didnt show up. They can justify it(like you have done with everything I said). The excuse is everyone else's fault but Dublin Bus. Its the Luas works(I got told this when they actually hadnt not started). It must be Christmas Shopping (at the start of November).

There is just no accountable in Dublin Bus for their poor service. I say Dublin Bus love NTA. They can pass all their failures and mistakes onto them.

If I have experienced poor standards of service in Dublin Bus. HQ is denying it, as usual. Who is the next person to complain to?

the groutch

the €1 leap discount is still a price increase vs the T90 though.
now you pay €3.10 vs €2.95 iirc just before the T90 was pulled.

pillphil

newacc2015 wrote: »

I regularly see 2/3 buses travelling together. DB say its the traffic, luas workers etc. If its regular occurrence change the time table at the terminal so it doesnt happen daily.

I lived in Munich and everyday the bus came like clock work. If buses can follow timetables in other cites I dont know how it cant be impossible in Dublin

I think bus bunching is pretty unavoidable. The most likely culprit is customers taking too long to make payments.
The only solutions would be no cash fares and/or strict boarding times. ie, if there's a queue, once the bus has been stopped for x amount of time the doors close and no-one else gets on, whether the bus is full or not.

coylemj

pillphil wrote: »

I think bus bunching is pretty unavoidable. The most likely culprit is customers taking too long to make payments.

Bus bunching was happening even when there was conductors, it's nothing to do with cash vs. cashless. When there are traffic bottlenecks, it's inevitable that the following bus(es) will catch up and later on the route you'll get buses arriving in pairs or threes. If you send the 46As away from the NCR every 10 minutes and they have to pass through the city centre, there will always be bunching by the time they get to the N11.

alcaline

newacc2015 wrote: »

Generally in a company you call a Customer service representation to explain how the your standards of service werent great. In Dublin Bus you can phone HQ to complain about their extremely low standard of service. If you are luckly they answer the phone. You usually get every single excuse possible about why the bus was late or didnt show up. They can justify it(like you have done with everything I said). The excuse is everyone else's fault but Dublin Bus. Its the Luas works(I got told this when they actually hadnt not started). It must be Christmas Shopping (at the start of November).

There is just no accountable in Dublin Bus for their poor service. I say Dublin Bus love NTA. They can pass all their failures and mistakes onto them.

If I have experienced poor standards of service in Dublin Bus. HQ is denying it, as usual. Who is the next person to complain to?

So lets get this straight, you phone to complain, you are then told why the bus was late, this to you is unacceptable, now what the hell do you want, you had a complaint and the answer is not to your liking, would you prefer the person answer the phone and make up a great big elaborate lie as to why the bus was late?
There are certain types of people who are never happy, Dublin Bus could increase all main routes to a 5 minute service and people would be on here complaining "Why can't it be like Singapore where its a 4 minute service".
Dublin Bus introduce a flat fare of €2 and we would see posters moaning about how its only €1.90 in Kazakhstan, they just love to moan, nothing is ever good enough for them.
While i appreciate a lot of the posters here are transport enthusiasts, it is pretty clear that huge amounts of knowledge of the working of DB are a mystery to them, you explain something to them and they circle the wagons and don't want to know, see for example the posts about not having to scan the new FTP on DB.
Every single complaint that you will have about DB will have a simple explanation, but some of you prefer to believe there is a huge conspiracy, you could not be more wrong if you tried.

alcaline

pillphil wrote: »

The only solutions would be no cash fares and/or strict boarding times. ie, if there's a queue, once the bus has been stopped for x amount of time the doors close and no-one else gets on, whether the bus is full or not.

This is a perfect example of a clueless poster.
Can you imaging the chaos on the streets of Dublin if this was to happen, there would be bedlam. Fist fights breaking out at every stop.

alcaline

the groutch wrote: »

the €1 leap discount is still a price increase vs the T90 though.
now you pay €3.10 vs €2.95 iirc just before the T90 was pulled.

Who came up with the really good idea of the T90? Dublin Bus
Who scrapped the T90? The NTA.
So why do people moan about the loss of the T90 ticket and blame Dublin BUs, you should be directing your ire at the NTA who pulled the ticket, you never know if enough complain they might bring it back.

pillphil

alcaline wrote: »

This is a perfect example of a clueless poster.
Can you imaging the chaos on the streets of Dublin if this was to happen, there would be bedlam. Fist fights breaking out at every stop.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting it as an implementable solution, more of an example of why you'll just have to put up with it.

Peppa Pig

alcaline wrote: »

Dublin Bus exceed all the targets set for them in the contract drawn up by the NTA,

No they don't - the figures are freely available on the NTA website. Last year they missed 30% of the targets set by the NTA.
Link
The statistics are quite impressive though, as the ones missed are just a bit below but it is disingenuous to say they have exceeded all targets.

Victor

alcaline wrote: »

Who came up with the really good idea of the T90? Dublin Bus
Who scrapped the T90? The NTA.

Several of the products produced by the CIÉ companies have been anti-competitive and anti-consumer, insofar as they created too much of an emphasis on single-mode usage, as opposed to mutli-modal usage. The options available with Leap card are a big change from that.

alcaline wrote: »

So lets get this straight, you phone to complain, you are then told why the bus was late, this to you is unacceptable, now what the hell do you want, you had a complaint and the answer is not to your liking, would you prefer the person answer the phone and make up a great big elaborate lie as to why the bus was late?

So, recently I was getting a bus at Newcomen Bridge. the stop has about 600 buses per day, but the RTPI sign was saying the next bus was in 15 minutes. Sensing something was wrong, I phoned Dublin Bus customer service. I was told it was a problem with the on-board equipment. I said this wasn't it as **all** buses were having a problem. I was then told there was a mobile phone system failure. I was in a slightly elevated location in the city centre, talking to them on a mobile phone. At that point, I knew I was being lied to and that they were making things up on the spot.

The actual problem seems to have been a central computer failure and the system was getting back on its feet. Management (the inspectors in garages / Broadstone) need to tell the CS staff there is a problem, what it is, what is being done and when it is expected to be fixed. Similarly, the CS staff need to tell management when passengers are reporting issues. Neither of these things seem to be happening.

alcaline

Peppa Pig wrote: »

No they don't - the figures are freely available on the NTA website. Last year they missed 30% of the targets set by the NTA.
Link
The statistics are quite impressive though, as the ones missed are just a bit below but it is disingenuous to say they have exceeded all targets.

Another example of how transport enthusiasts don't know as much as they think they know, the figures posted in the Depot are from Q1 2015, not yet on the NTA website.

alcaline

Victor wrote: »

Several of the products produced by the CIÉ companies have been anti-competitive and anti-consumer, insofar as they created too much of an emphasis on single-mode usage, as opposed to mutli-modal usage. The options available with Leap card are a big change from that.

Well if thats the reason they pulled T90 tickets its a joke, large areas of Dublin are not services by DART or LUAS, so keeping the T90 for these folk is anti-competitive and anti-consumer? Should they not have been kept until DART and LUAS are city wide and a alternative to Dublin Bus for everyone?

alcaline

Victor wrote: »

So, recently I was getting a bus at Newcomen Bridge. the stop has about 600 buses per day, but the RTPI sign was saying the next bus was in 15 minutes. Sensing something was wrong, I phoned Dublin Bus customer service. I was told it was a problem with the on-board equipment. I said this wasn't it as **all** buses were having a problem. I was then told there was a mobile phone system failure. I was in a slightly elevated location in the city centre, talking to them on a mobile phone. At that point, I knew I was being lied to and that they were making things up on the spot.

The actual problem seems to have been a central computer failure and the system was getting back on its feet. Management (the inspectors in garages / Broadstone) need to tell the CS staff there is a problem, what it is, what is being done and when it is expected to be fixed. Similarly, the CS staff need to tell management when passengers are reporting issues. Neither of these things seem to be happening.

The ticket machines are seriously underpowered, they are tied into the RTPI, when the ticket machine goes on the blink, and that is daily, the RTPI goes wrong.
A for the mobile phones, which network are you on, and which one are the Buses on? Often happens one network goes bad while another is working perfect.
As for a central computer failure, that would be based up in Broadstone, so the depot inspectors would not know about it.
The problem is the ticket machines on the bus, they are seriously underpowered . they lock up daily. The NTA have kept putting new features on LEAP card, and when they do this is puts more strain on the machine, makes it slower more prone to lock up. Recently they have added auto stage update, it has put extra work on a underpowered ticket machine, this has led to more freezes, all sorts of problems with the validators. These ticket machines are tied into the RTPI, so there is your problem right there.
When the RTPI show a bus arriving in 10 minutes and then all of a sudden it appears, that because the ticket machine went haywire a little earlier and it is stuck on a previous location.

devnull

The RTPI is based on a separate box in the cab and can function with or without a ticket machine.

RTPI is only connected to the ticket machines to update the stages, if the RPTI goes wrong, it obviously breaks the auto stage updating on the ticket machines though.

One thing we will all agree on though is the ticket machines are not fit for purpose.

Peppa Pig

alcaline wrote: »

Another example of how transport enthusiasts don't know as much as they think they know, the figures posted in the Depot are from Q1 2015, not yet on the NTA website.

So you are saying that in Q1 2015 DB exceeded every NTA target? Well when they appear on the NTA website we can verify that "DB exceed all the targets".

Do me a little favour - next time you are in the depot can you tell me what the punctuality for both the N11 and Merrion road corridors were for those 3 months? - Thanks

Like I said the figures are quite impressive but not exceeding all targets. It's also extremely unlikely, if not impossible for DB to have hit target in Q2 2015, due to the bus strike in May.

alcaline

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Do me a little favour - next time you are in the depot can you tell me what the punctuality for both the N11 and Merrion road corridors were for those 3 months? - Thanks

The info in depot is not that detailed, if it is posted i will update here.

alcaline

devnull wrote: »

The RTPI is based on a separate box in the cab and can function with or without a ticket machine.

You know this because of a man in the pub told you?
The RTPI box does absolutely nothing on the bus until the driver signs onto the ticket machine.

Victor

Question, when starting a trip, what information does the driver put into the ticket machine / other devices?

dfx-

markpb wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of posts like this from DB staff recently. You're absolutely factually correct but you're missing the point. When someone complains about Dublin Bus, they mean the city bus service provided to them. They don't care that the staff do one thing, the management do another, that the NTA set the service levels while DoT provide the funding and DCC, FCC, SDCC and DLRCC are responsible for the bus lanes. All they care about is the level of service they receive. The internal workings of all that is (and should be) irrelevant to the guy getting on the bus.

Is this unfair to the grunts driving the bus and are frustrated by what they know? Yes. Does posting in boards do anything about it? Nope.

I would very very much disagree with the assumption in bold.

alcaline

Victor wrote: »

Question, when starting a trip, what information does the driver put into the ticket machine / other devices?

staff number
pin
route
time of departure
direction of travel

Snickers Man

Leap Card rocks!!!!

Victor

alcaline wrote: »

staff number
pin
route
time of departure
direction of travel

Hmm, I was told they have to "programme in co-ordinates", which I was suspicious of.

alcaline

Victor wrote: »

Hmm, I was told they have to "programme in co-ordinates", which I was suspicious of.

That has never been a requirement, once you put in the route, depart time and direction it automatically does the rest.

foggy_lad

the groutch wrote: »

the €1 leap discount is still a price increase vs the T90 though.
now you pay €3.10 vs €2.95 iirc just before the T90 was pulled.

But the T90 only allowed for one transfer while the leap discount applies to all subsequent journeys within 90 minutes of the previous one so you can continue to get the €1 discount on several buses up to the daily cap.

wench

foggy_lad wrote: »

But the T90 only allowed for one transfer while the leap discount applies to all subsequent journeys within 90 minutes of the previous one so you can continue to get the €1 discount on several buses up to the daily cap.

No, the T90 gave 90 minutes of unlimited travel, you could take as many journeys as you wanted.

foggy_lad

wench wrote: »

No, the T90 gave 90 minutes of unlimited travel, you could take as many journeys as you wanted.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares-and-Tickets/Leap-Card/

What is Leap 90 Discount?

If you take two or more buses to get to your destination, Leap 90 Discount will automatically refund you up to €1.00 when you board a second bus within 90 minutes of the previous trip. The maximum discount is €1.00 (€0.75 child fare), if the fare is cheaper than €1.00 (e.g. the City Centre Fare) the fare will simply be refunded in full to the Leap Card.

The discount applies when you board any bus within 90 minutes of the previous bus, so if you are making a third or subsequent transfer, you will also get a discount on that fare. Leap 90 Discount also applies to journeys taken within 90 minutes, to or from Luas, DART and Commuter Rail journeys.

It is important to note that the Leap card will ALWAYS select the best value fare option from your Travel Credit – no action is necessary - the system does it for you.

wench

foggy_lad wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares-and-Tickets/Leap-Card/

Yes, that is the leap discount.
I was addressing the incorrect assertion in your post, that the T90 only allowed one transfer. The only limit on the T90 was how many busses you could physically get on to in 90 minutes

foggy_lad wrote: »

But the T90 only allowed for one transfer

foggy_lad

wench wrote: »

Yes, that is the leap discount.
I was addressing the incorrect assertion in your post, that the T90 only allowed one transfer. The only limit on the T90 was how many busses you could physically get on to in 90 minutes

I should have been clearer, by one transfer on the T90 I actually meant one 90 minute period. With the leap card the 90 minute period resets each time you transfer.

MOH

alcaline wrote: »

That has never been a requirement, once you put in the route, depart time and direction it automatically does the rest.

Sorry for the off topic question, but then why do ticket machines regularly have the wrong stage displayed?

devnull

T90 had the big drawback that it was Dublin Bus only.

LXFlyer

MOH wrote: »

Sorry for the off topic question, but then why do ticket machines regularly have the wrong stage displayed?

The driver may not have updated the stages.


Given that there are no on-street markings, it can be confusing for them too.

punisher5112

lxflyer wrote: »

The driver may not have updated the stages.


Given that there are no on-street markings, it can be confusing for them too.

Auto stage update live on db fleet.

LXFlyer

punisher5112 wrote: »

Auto stage update live on db fleet.

But still with some errors!

alcaline

lxflyer wrote: »

But still with some errors!

Not just some,plenty. It will show stage 10 at one stop, and before you get to the next stop it will jump 2 stages.