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ATH 2015: The final - BeakerJoe vs Omackeral

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  • 18-10-2015 8:03pm
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Bounty Hunter
    Mr Nice Guy
    Mr Nice Guy
    Omackeral
    Omackeral
    Imnotthehulk
    Omackeral
    beakerjoe
    gerrybbadd
    beakerjoe
    beakerjoe
    thebostoncrab
    Cheese Wagstaff
    thebostoncrab
    sorry first round peeps only QF onwards above

    Here we are, the Around The Horn (ATH) 2015 final:

    Beakerjoe bested HashTagHeel, the man who knocked him out last year GerryBBadd and theBostonCrab to get here but now he has to face off 1 on 1, mano a mano with the man who made the KOTR style graphic you see above you Omakeral who he himself defeated Mr Nice Guy (not easy, he dispatched myself), MrKiscool and ImnottheHulk to get here.

    You know the drill by now fellas so without further adieu here is the question and as it's the final why not make it a big one:
    Final question - lets rewind a few months back to summer time this year...

    WWE creative is under pressure to write a “big summer angle” to drive lagging ratings. Examples of this are the Nexus or the failed “Who Killed Mr. McMahon?” Ratings generally slump during the summer months after WrestleMania season when many big part time stars depart. As head of creative HHH & Vince McMahon want to know what your “big summer angle” will be? why you've chosen this? and how you would see it play out including the payoff.

    After your first post, why would your choice be better than your opponents?


    g'luck folks

    Who should win ATH 2015? 13 votes

    Beakerjoe
    0% 0 votes
    Omackeral
    100% 13 votes


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Well its a hell of a question and I know I have my work cut out for me against Omackeral, who has played excellently thus far and he is the man to beat. Here is my final answer which I hope will final best Mr O’Mack.

    So it’s after Wrestlemania 31 and it’s up to me to create a program that will capture the imagination of the WWE Universe for the summer of 2015. There’s plenty of ways to go, but using the current roster, but I’ve an idea that will hopefully ruffle a few feathers and rattle a few cages. I’ll try lay the goings on months by month and hopefully I will have everything as clear as can be.

    Anyway my angle begins in April, 2 weeks after Wrestlemania 32 and the fallout from the biggest night in the WWE calendar. Seth Rollins is Champion, The Authority is in power and all is well in the land of the bad guy heels. You guys know the situation.

    The run up to the Extreme Rules PPV

    8be08c1d7e1a9684c86b178e66a7dbf7_crop_north.jpg?w=630&h=420&q=75


    Steph and Hunter come out to address the crowd for the end segment of Monday Night Raw, 2 weeks before Extreme Rules. They say how much Wrestlemania was a success and it’s all because of them and they declare The Authority have made WWE a better place. Suddenly they are interrupted by the music of.... ....Vince McMahon.
    3df617a.jpg

    Vince struts out and says hes been watching how Hunter and Stephanie have handled running the WWE over the last few months and he agrees they’ve been a success. But even though they have been a success, watching them run the company has made him want to return himself. Vince says he misses running his baby and he is here tonight to take back the reigns from his daughter and her husband. Hunter and Steph don’t seem to be to happy about this, and they tell Vince he cant do this, But Vince politely tells them its already agreed with the WWE shearholders, Vince McMahon is back in charge.

    He says that even though WWE has been running fine the last few months, Vince says the shareholders have watched the last few months of WWE programming and they are unhappy with the level of involvement from the authority and quite frankly, he is too. Vince and the shareholders believe that the Authority are drunk with Power and that hes here to step in and steer the WWE into calmer waters. Vince says its nothing personal, its just business and as Chairman he’s her to run the show and that Hunter and Steph can go back to working behind the scenes.

    The show ends with Hunter and Steph looking disillusioned and Vince smiling.

    From here things go as the have done except without Hunter and Steph. Vince stacks the deck against Seth Rollins by placing him in the matches against at the next few PPVs (the Randy Orton,Kane, Reigns 4 way, The Ambrose series and The Brock match. At Battleground) and his feuds play out more or less the same except Seth keeps retaining via cheating rather than help from the Authority and Rollins come is still champion heading into Summerslam.


    Now before we get to Summer slam another story develops.....Well my big Summer Angle develops.......

    Enter KEVIN OWENS

    Kevin-Owens-WWE.jpg

    I wouldnt change his initial debut on the Main roster as I believe it was pretty much perfect. I’d have him interrupt Cena and leave him lying in the ring, holding the NXT title aloft while stand on Cena’s US title and I’d also have him beat Cena in similar fashion in his debut match, just like he did. But here’s where things change.

    The lead up to Money IN The Bank PPV

    They would continue their rivalry as they did, with Machine Gun Kelly being put through a table and a rematch happening at MITB. In the build up Id half Kevin be so confident of becoming United States Champion, that he would vacate the NXT title (keeps him stronger than having him lose it to Balor in Japan.)
    wwe-signs-former-mma-figher-lana-750x340-1432136781.jpg

    Money in the Bank PPV



    The match would open the show and the match would go down much of the same way as it did, only Owens wins clean again. After the match, Owens would get on the mic and stand over a fallen John Cena and berate him before he quotes his own hero Owen hart by saying “Enough is Enough and its time for a change”. Then I’d have Owens decimate John Cena, and I mean decimate him. I’d have him beat John to a bloody pulp and bash him repeatedly with chair before delivering a running powerbomb off the stage to a table below (Similar to what he did to MGK). Owens not only beats Cena, but he destroys him and puts him on the shelf. The commentators put Owens over big and Owens leaves as US champion and the conqueror of John Cena .

    The next night on Raw

    Vince will book Brock v Rollins early in the night to kickoff the show. Just keep that in mind for later.

    Owens is out to address the crowd. He tells a short story about how Vince McMahon and his talent scouts looked Owens up in 2008 at a Ring of Honor show and that he didn’t get signed because I was slightly over weight and that he didn’t have that Dwanye Johnson or John Cena look or physique. Owens says that was his motivation in the years that followed and that since then he worked hard to prove to everyone that I am the greatest wrestler that ever lived. He says in August last year he was signed by an NXT talent scout, unknown to McMahon and in the last year he has proved in NXT that he cant be stopped. He says Vince McMahon lit that fire inside him years ago and that last night he beat his boy John Cena to a bloody pulp and now hes calling Vince out to make him apologise and admit that he got it wrong.

    Vince is out and he lays into Owens for his actions as of late and chastises him for attacking MGK and injuring John Cena. Vince is irate and accuses Kevin Owens of not appreciating the opportunities the WWE and he have given him.

    Owens says hes been waiting for his chance to speak with Vince 1 on 1 in the ring since they day he signed. Owens says hes going to tell Vince a few home truths, s suggesting how he never got signed in past was because of how Vince and Johnny Ace called him a fat, out-of-shape spot monkey. He says Vince never liked him because he didn’t have the look of a “sports entertainer” and that he didn’t fit the WWE mould. Owens says he worked his ass off and he earned his opportunity the hard way and says it wasn’t even Vince that signed him anyway. Owens says he sent a message to not only the WWE locker room last night, but he sent a message to Vince that he is the real deal and that he will stop at nothing to prove him wrong.

    Vince lays into him, asking him “Do you know who the hell your talking to damn it??”

    Owens calmly responds : “Do you know who I am?”, before kicking Vince in the gut and delivering a huge Pop-up-Powerbomb to the chairmen.

    Owens drags Vince up and throws him to the outside and up teh ramp. He sets Vince up for a Powerbomb off the stage and Referees come out to try dissuade Owens from going through with it. Owens doesn’t listen and jumps off the stage to a table (and padding) below. Referees and security tackle him and escort him out as he smiles sadistically as EMTs check on Vince. Vince is stretched out and taken away to a local medical facility.
    kevin_owens1.png?itok=gHj5Slz0

    The fallout from Owens attacking Vince

    3 weeks until Battleground

    The next week we here from Michael Cole that Vince is in an induced coma as a result of Kevin Owens attack. We see clips of Stephanie and Hunter at Vinces bedside throughout the show and its all very emotional stuff. Triple H eventually storms off with the declaration hes going to make Owens pay.

    Owens is absent from the show as he is suspended indefinitely according to Michael Cole throughout the show and replays of last weeks attack is played throughout.
    2 weeks until Battleground
    The next week comes around and Vince is still in a coma and his condition is worsening. ,but we are told by Michael Cole that an emergency meeting was called and we will go live to the meeting at the end of the show.

    During the show we have a sit down interview with Kevin Owens, who shows no remorse for his actions and basically says Vince got what he deserved.

    The End of the show comes and we see Triple H addressing the boards members. He tells the board that its unlikely that Vince will recover and he has a medical report from the doctor which outlines that Vince is at deaths door. Hunter tells the board that Stephanie is at Vinces bedside holding vigil with the rest of the family and that with Vinces condition looking bleak, he has obtained power of attorney over Vince estate since Steph and the rest of the family are busy at Vinces bedside. Hunter tells the board that with his own shares and now with power of attorney over Vinces shares, he is in temporary full control of WWE .
    1 week until Battleground

    Its announced that Triple H will return to WWE at battleground and its hyped throughout the show. Currently Vinces condition hasn’t gotten any better and Hunter and Steph and the rest of his family are still by his bedside. There is no sign of Owens on the show, but its announced that he will be a guest on the John Stewart Show during the week, prior to Battleground
    The John Stewart Show

    the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-talks-about-michael-sam-jon-stewart-484eed033eb278d725ec20e6d9d580a9-small-102835.jpg
    Owens is interviewed for around 5 minutes and says that he will be remembered as the greatest wrestler who ever lived and as the man who killed Vince McMahon. Stewart has a right go at him calling him a monster and an remorseless human being, which prompts Owens to grab Stewart by ten scruff before leaving.
    Battleground

    Triple H returns and cuts a face promo on Owens and declares that he is now in full charge and that if Owens wants a fight then Owens has got one with him. Hunter says that from now he reinstates Owens and is ordering him to face him 1 on 1 tomorrow night on Raw.

    Raw – five weeks until Summerslam

    The match is hyped all through the night and it comes to the end of the show. Hunter is in streetfight clothes and calls Owens out for a fight. Owens appears via satellite and says hes a Prizefighter and now that he put Cena on the shelf and Vince in a coffin, he only fights when its on his terms. Owens says he will turn up at Summerslam and says he wants Hunter on the big stage. Hunter accepts and Hunter is fuming at the non appearance of Owens to close the show.

    Also with Cena out, Rollins after beating Brock will go into a feud with Roman Reigns and they will fight for the title at Summerslam.
    Raw – 4 weeks until Summerslam

    Still no improvemnt from Vince but we are informed that a contact signing will happen next week from Owens and Hunter. We get a sit down interview with Hunter says how hes gonna get vengeance for Vince and his family at Summerslam and we also get one from Owens saying hes going to take out Triple H at Summerslam and add him to the list of names hes destroyed.
    kevin-owens-on-wanting-the-wwe-u-620x350.jpg

    Raw – 3 Weeks until Summerslam

    The contact signing takes place and a gulf of security are between Hunter and Owens as they both sign and have hurtful words for each other. Hunter goes for Owens but the security keeps them apart.
    triple-h-angry-hhh.jpg

    As we go off the air, Michael Cole leaves us with a news Update-...... VINCE IS AWAKE.

    Raw – 2 weeks until Summerslam

    We get a full update on Vince that hes awake and that hes recovering at a fast rate and progressing well.



    Raw – 1 week until Summerslam


    Hunter and Steph are live from his beside and Vince says he will be at Summerslam to witness Hunter kick Owens ass.

    Owens is in the live arena and cutting a promo on Hunter and Vince when Shawn Michaels comes out. He gets in Owens face, sticking up for his friend Hunter and tells Owens hes in for the fight of his life at Summerslam.
    Owens responds with “ Your in the fight of your life right now Shawn!” as he attacks HBK and lays him out, sending a message to Hunter for Summerslam.

    Summerslam – Owens v Triple H

    kevin-owens.jpg?w=600

    Owens is out first and is looking very confident. Triple H is out next and is accompanied by Stephanie whos wheeling Vince McMahon down to rindside. Hunter stand on the outside and doesn’t do his usual entrance, except he eyeballs Owens from the outside. We can hear Vince yelling on at Hunter to “kill him, kill that son of a bitch!”

    The commentators note that its strange that Hunter isn’t going straight to attack Owens with caution to the wind, but put it down to caution against the dangerous Owens. Hunter, though originally looking fired up, askes for the Mic at ringside.

    Hunter : "Vince.....Pop..... this is for you!"

    Hunter slides in the ring and goes nose to nose with Owens before .......EMBRACING OWENS!!!!?

    That right, they hug in the ring and begin to laugh at Vince and Steph on the outside. It was all a rues. Both Steph and Vince are in shock as Hunter grabs the mic again.

    Hunter mocks both Steph and Vince before explaining that he hatched this plan months ago when Vince inserted himself back to power. Hunter explains he kept WWE running over the years when Vince lost interest or got bored and he kept it going. He says it wasn’t right what happened and he was the rightful owner of WWE.

    Hunter reveals that it was him who saw potential in Owens and it was him who signed him to NXT and it was him who suggested he attack Cena and it was him who suggest he calls out Vince and attack him.

    With Vince out of the picture and Stephanie too busy with tending to him, Triple H used this to gain power of attorney over Vinces shares and now Triple H is the majority shareholder and in full control of WWE as he signed Vinces shares over to himself. He says he had to do it Steph and he doesn’t regret it one bit. He says Steph held him back and that Vince is a fossil who refuses to step down and call it a day.

    Stephs world has been shattered and is in floods of tears and Vince is red with anger. Owens and Hunter laugh do a “too sweet” gesture as Vince and Steph are left reeling.

    Also at Summerslam Rollins will beat Roman reigns after a hard fought battle, with Rollins winning clean. After the match, Roman will extend his hand to Rollins, explaining they both left it all in the ring and suggesting he gained his respect. Rollins shakes and they end the show putting their past behind them after a war in the ring.

    Going forward

    tumblr_nsk10wJaB21ud0tbao1_1280.jpg

    Hunter and Owens are now the top heels and Seth can challenge them initially.

    They can be confronted by Rollins, who is now showing more face qualities in this promo following how Summerslam ended and will set up a Rollins v Owens feud. This can lead to many possibilities and great matches, as Rollins is now top face and champion and he can feud with Owens. Great matches would be the outcome between Rollins and Owens in the future, a possible face reunion of the Shield and perhaps a Rollins v Hunter match down the road and maybe even Top heel Owens v a returning Brock!
    Hope you all enjoyed


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    The Wyatt Family's War of Attrition

    April



    The night after Wrestlemania is typically a high profile edition of Raw. This is where our story begins. We're live in San Jose, California. Former WWE World Heavyweight Brock Lesnar storms to the ring looking battle ready only 24 hours removed from losing his title in controvservial circumstances to Seth Rollins. There's no beating around the bush here, Paul Heyman tells us that his client is demanding to invoke his WWE World Heavyweight Championship rematch clause tonight. He runs down Seth Rollins as an opportunistic little weasel and gives us a spoiler, not a predicition, that the Beast will be leaving California as he came into it and that's as champion. We see Heyman meeting with Stephanie McMahon later on and he confirms with her that the match will take place tonight. He also offers his sincere best wishes to her for HHH who isn't there tonight, following on from his big match the night before.


    Halfway through the show we here the familiar music of Bray Wyatt. He says that last night he took the mighty Undertaker to the edge. Next he's gonna take over. Tonight the movement grows. Tonight the Buzzards come home. Follow me my fireflies, cos we've got the whole world in our hands.... He leads the crowd in song and they don't disappoint.

    ExBXYpCh.jpg


    It's main event time and new champion Seth Rollins comes down to the ring to answer Brock Lesnar's challenge. He's brash and braggadocious. He smirks in Lesnar's face. Before the action gets underway, Rollins declares himself to be the greatest WWE World Heavyweight Champion in history. He also point blank refuses to defend the title against Lesnar and laughs. Lesnar responds by attacking Rollins but the champion escapes. Lesnar then attacks Rollins' security team Jamie Noble and Joey Mercury, a cameraman, and broadcast announcer Booker T. As a result, Lesnar gets suspended indefinitely and fined by Stephanie McMahon. Steph loses her marbles and goes off on Lesnar saying he doesn't make the rules around here. She does. She's a McMahon dammit! We are the Authority. Nobody runs this place but us. Nobody!!! At this time the lights go out and we hear the familiar screech of Bray Wyatts into. They come back on and Bray Wyatt is in his crab-walk pose in the ring right in front of Stephanie. She shrieks for help. At this time Kane and Big Show come out onto the ramp and stop just short of the ring apron. Again the lights go out and we hear the screeching sound. When they come back up...

    39a096d856575f078ecb2a7330f5a6b7.jpg


    The Wyatt Family is back together. The Prodigal Son and The White Sheep have returned from whence they came. Show and Kane get out of Dodge as Steph retreats cowering between them.

    May


    As May rolls around, Randy Orton is declared declared the number one contender to Rollins' WWE World Heavyweight Championship by virtue of having beaten him at WrestleMania prior to his cash in. The match is set for Extreme Rules and will be contested inside a cage as per Rollins choosing of stipulation. He's become a paranoid champ after the Lesnar fiasco and fears the Beast Incarnate could show up at anytime. He's also had run ins and slimy escapes from Roman Reigns and Dean Ambrose as of late on Raw and Smackdown. He made a plea to Stephanie for extra protection during his cage match so she has appointed Kane and Big Show as Gatekeepers and banned the RKO from being used. Randy Orton is teaching Seth a lesson and his experience is showing in the one on one situation. With his go-to move, the Apex Predator is going deeper into his repertoire. He hits a Batista Bomb and even a Pedigree, a nod to his own Evolution days, to get near falls. Then he gets a look in his eye and starts to set up for a move we haven't seen in a long time. The prone champion is about to receive the dreaded Punt Kick. At the last minute, Kane storms the ring and catches Orton by the throat. Randy escapes the Demon's chokeslam attempt mid-air and hits him with an RKO. However, Rollins has recovered and sneaks out the open door to yet another slimy finish. Big Show enters the ring and padlocks the door shut, trapping Orton in there with himself and Kane. Orton tries to fight them off but eventually succumbs and is hit with a Knockout Punch. Meanwhile a knackered but gloating Rollins laughs from the stage clutching his title belt and speaking into a microphone. ''You idiot, don't you know that I always have an ace or two up my sleeve, that's why I'm the Man. Nobody can touch me. I'm the smartest champion that ever lived hahaha!!!'' As he finishes his sentence, the unmistakable screeching sound of the Wyatt Family is heard. When the camera pans back we see Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper and Erick Rowan outside surrounding the cage. The crowd are going nuts. The two giants are locking eyes with them. Wyatt instructs his disciples to climb a side of the cage each. Kane and Big Show prepare to meet them on either side, wih their backs to each other but on opposite sides of the ring. Bray Wyatt starts to laugh as the two henchmen stop half way through their ascent. Then, up through the dead centre of the canvas comes this massive man mountain...

    hqdefault.jpg


    The following night on Raw, Bray Wyatt opens up the show. He introduces us all to The New Face of Destruction and Sister Abigail's Black Sheep, Braun Strowman. He says that his family is stronger than ever and now he wants his fireflies to come with him right to the top. He lays his claim to the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. Stephanie McMahon appears on the Titantron and denies his request outright and says that you don't just get what you want by terrorizing the entire WWE Universe. She announces the Championship match has already been decided for the Fatal 4 Way PPV and will feature Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Randy Orton. Wyatt calmly says back that she should listen to the Universe, his fireflies. ''They grow in numbers by the week, m'lady, listen to them!!! Can't you hear?'' He leads the crowd on another rendition of Whole World in his Hands. Stephanie is adamant and abruptly says no. Bray's tone changes. ''Very well Boss woman, my followers grow by the week'', he puts his hand on Strowman's shoulder, ''but so too do my warriors''. She takes this as a threat and says that he will not receive a title shot anytime soon if that is how he wants to do business. He responds furiously by saying ''this won't be business, this will be warfare''. He then slips back into his calm demeanour and chuckles ''besides, you said anytime soon?''. He begins to sing. ''Tiiiime is on my side''.

    June


    Fatal 4 Way kicks off with an eponymous match for the WWE Tag Team Championship. This match is hard hitting and sees one stand out team put the rest of the roster on notice, namely Luke Harper and Erick Rowan. Now known as The Reapers, they are more hard hitting than ever before and have seamless chemistry. They beat The New Day, The Primetime Players and Tyson Kidd/Cesaro to claim the first gold for the Wyatt Family.

    Bo Dallas is going up against 'The Man That Gravity Forgot' Neville midway through the show. They've been having a little series up to this point but Bo is at 0-4 (or Bo and 4, as he calls it.) With each match they have, Dallas gets a little closer to victory but is beaten each time. He gives a good account of himself on this occasion but comes up short with a pinfall loss, even though his foot appeared to be on the ropes. After the match he gets on the mic and starts to do his Bo-lieve schtick. Halfway through it, he stops his cheeriness and says he can't go on like this anymore. He says the cryptic words ''I need my shepherd, come and guide me''. The commentators are speculating what this means as we go to our next video package.

    The main event of the PPV is in full swing. Ambrose and Reigns have been working well as a team throughout the match but have also come to blows inevitably. Rollins has been trying all sorts of shenanigans like sitting in the timekeepers' area and hiding under the ring. The closing sequence sees Dean Ambrose sending Roman Reigns to the outside to a waiting Randy Orton, who had been catching a breather. The two throughbreds get into it. Reigns looks set to spear Orton by running across the two announce tables only for Randy to counter it with a modified RKO, destroying the furniture. Rollins sneaks in to the ring and clocks Ambrose with the Title. 1.....2..... Blackout. They Wyatt Family hit the ring and cause absolute destruction. It's reminiscent of the Nexus debut when they destroyed the ring area. They're all there Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, Erick Rowan, Braun Strowman. Chaos is reigning and Wyatt gets on the mic. ''She's Here''. Out comes a hooded figure who we assume to be the personification of Sister Abigail leading a sheep mask-wearing individual in a boiler suit.

    They enter the ring. Wyatt says that Sister Abigail has given him back his Prodigal Son. She's returned his White Sheep and bestowed upon him the new Face of Destruction in the form of the Black Sheep Braun Strowman. He says that she has one more gift to give. ''We truly are Family'', says Wyatt. Each one of them says the word Family. Wyatt then thanks Sister Abigail for her latest gift and the one he treasure most, his Sacrificial Lamb. Once again, they all say Family. She removes her hood and the sheep mask comes off the so-called Lamb.
    b-ikw00iuaai1mj-1438235719-800.jpg

    It's Bray's real life sister Mika in the guise of Sister Abigail and his real life brother Bo Dallas finally joining him.


    The next night on Raw sees the return of HHH. He's not in the mood of festivities, however. He takes off his blazer and rolls up his sleeves. ''Bray Wyatt you son of a bitch, you want to declare war?!'' He fumes that the cage couldn't keep the Wyatts out at Extreme Rules. The numbers at Fatal 4 Way couldn't keep them at bay. He says that they're gonna be met head on. ''I know I can't keep you out, I can damn well keep you in. You want a war? You got one. Prepare for War Games''

    July


    Bkq-ZkPCUAE88ec.jpg





    From here Team Authority is assembled comprising of HHH, Seth Rollins, Sheamus, Rusev and Kevin Owens. Big Show and Kane are deemed expendable on the basis they couldn't keep the Wyatts at bay. There can be some descension between Mr Money in the Bank Sheamus and Seth Rollins, the current Champion. All of which angers HHH. Kevin Owens is just the pain in the ass he always is but as he's a prize fight, he'll fight for cash. Rusev has done business with the Authority on and off and wants to climb the ladder again so is has sworn his allegiance to the top brass.

    The match could have an emotionally charged wager. If the Wyatts win, Bray and his cohorts get title shots which could lead to a situation like this.
    RlDkTLg.jpg

    (Switch belts around so Harper and Rowan are tag champs, Dallas in for Rose)



    August and beyond

    SummerSlam would be around the corner with some fresh direction. Seth Rollins vs Bray Wyatt could be a great main event with two lads in their 20's. You could potentially mix it up with Wyatt vs Lesnar for a match we've never seen. Even a fan made graphic gets me excited for that one
    bray_wyatt_vs_brock_lesnar_summer_slam_2015_by_wwematchcard-d930re1.png





    I feel this storyline works on quite a few levels.

    - It gets Bray Wyatt over as a major star, something he should have been a long time ago. It fixes the damage done to him following the nonsensical losses to John Cena and Undertaker at consecutive WrestleManias

    - It gets the crowd cheering for him, something they've wanted to do for a long while. His entrance pops a crowd fairly hard still even though they give him crap to work with. I've seldom seen a heel/tweener as over as he has been with crowds chanting and singing along with his words. Push him to a face leaning tweener with a dark side, like Taker was in the late 90's.

    -It introduces freaking War Games!!! Here's a fresh concept for WWE. It would 100% draw. It's got the novelty of being new and nostalgic all at once. A great opportunity financially and creatively. It also honors Dusty Rhodes, who was the creator of this match. It feels like a massive occasion also, King of the Ring used to be a cool mid summer event. That's been brushed under the rug. This is an ideal big deal match up.

    -It's a chance for the likes of Rusev, Harper, Kevin Owens to mix it up in the main event. Owens vs Wyatt would be great. Likewise Rusev. It also gives the talented Bo Dallas a fresh start and lets fans see him interact with his brother, which they've often pined for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Firstly let me say I’m delighted to be able to battle it out in the final with Omackeral. I’ve loved interacting with the man on boards and I’ve a lot of respect for the guy and his opinions. His answers thus far have been fantastic and if I do lose to him, I will have no complaints. That being said I’m coming out fighting and I’m going to do my best to come out on top.

    Omackeral wrote: »
    The Wyatt Family's War of Attrition

    I will openly admit that I roll my eyes at the sight of Bray Wyatt and his family. In 2013 they had a fresh vibe to them and certainly an intriguing mystery about them. Sadly, in the 2 years that have past since their debut on the Main Roster, a lack of creative direction and no character progression has slowly killed any momentum Bray Wyatt had in WWE. With each feud, his character continues to stagnate and never develop into anything more than a cool look and entrance. His rambling promos go no where and his feuds are usually baseless and as the months creep by his persona is getting more damaged as time progresses.
    Not only that but lazy booking has not only hurt him, but it seems to have a negative affect on those feuding with him. Dean Ambrose value had certainly dropped as a result of a feud with Wyatt and Roman Reigns is in my opinion falling victim of being placed opposite to Bray and his cronies.
    With Bray being such a damaged character in 2015, I feel you’ve made a grave error in choosing Bray to be the focal point of your summer angle straight off the bat.


    April


    The night after Wrestlemania is typically a high profile edition of Raw. This is where our story begins. We're live in San Jose, California. Former WWE World Heavyweight Brock Lesnar storms to the ring looking battle ready only 24 hours removed from losing his title in controvservial circumstances to Seth Rollins. There's no beating around the bush here, Paul Heyman tells us that his client is demanding to invoke his WWE World Heavyweight Championship rematch clause tonight. He runs down Seth Rollins as an opportunistic little weasel and gives us a spoiler, not a predicition, that the Beast will be leaving California as he came into it and that's as champion. We see Heyman meeting with Stephanie McMahon later on and he confirms with her that the match will take place tonight. He also offers his sincere best wishes to her for HHH who isn't there tonight, following on from his big match the night before.


    Halfway through the show we here the familiar music of Bray Wyatt. He says that last night he took the mighty Undertaker to the edge. Next he's gonna take over. Tonight the movement grows. Tonight the Buzzards come home. Follow me my fireflies, cos we've got the whole world in our hands.... He leads the crowd in song and they don't disappoint
    .

    Now while I’ve no problem with the opening with Brock and Seth, seeing as this is what played out in WWE in April, Its a fine way to begin. No problems here.
    I will pick a hole in having Bray appear on Raw straight after his match with Taker at Wrestlemania. Bray was made look very ordinary against an ageing Dead Man and he suffered a loss which damaged him severely.
    As I recall WWE kept him off TV in hope that his character recovered from such a damaging loss for the best part of 2 months following Wrestlemania in the hope that time away from the ring would help the audience forget about this big loss.
    So now after a big loss to Taker, you have him declaring to Takeover Raw? His credibility is lacking 24 hours on from Raw after losing to a broken down man twice his age at Wrestlemania. Id fail to believe him being able to “Takeover” anything after seeing look so weak against Taker only 1 day prior.

    It's main event time and new champion Seth Rollins comes down to the ring to answer Brock Lesnar's challenge. He's brash and braggadocious. He smirks in Lesnar's face. Before the action gets underway, Rollins declares himself to be the greatest WWE World Heavyweight Champion in history. He also point blank refuses to defend the title against Lesnar and laughs. Lesnar responds by attacking Rollins but the champion escapes. Lesnar then attacks Rollins' security team Jamie Noble and Joey Mercury, a cameraman, and broadcast announcer Booker T. As a result, Lesnar gets suspended indefinitely and fined by Stephanie McMahon. Steph loses her marbles and goes off on Lesnar saying he doesn't make the rules around here. She does. She's a McMahon dammit! We are the Authority. Nobody runs this place but us. Nobody!!! At this time the lights go out and we hear the familiar screech of Bray Wyatts into. They come back on and Bray Wyatt is in his crab-walk pose in the ring right in front of Stephanie. She shrieks for help. At this time Kane and Big Show come out onto the ramp and stop just short of the ring apron. Again the lights go out and we hear the screeching sound. When they come back up...

    The Wyatt Family is back together. The Prodigal Son and The White Sheep have returned from whence they came. Show and Kane get out of Dodge as Steph retreats cowering between them.

    While Ive no realproblems with this angle,other than Bray Wyatts credibility following his defeat to Taker, this angle is fine by me. Its interesting and while nothing ground breaking, its a segemnt that would generate some interest to say the least.

    But where is Brockin all of this? Brocks gone nuts right and Steph has come out to suspend him right? and then The Wyatts Show up? Has Brock vanished? Bit odd that hes there one minute then gone the next when Wyatt enters.

    May

    Ok what? Its May. What happened in the 2/3/4 weeks after this Raw after Wrestlemania? Did Steph react? What did Wyatt do next? Theres a huge gap here and it be odd not to follow it up at least before the May PPV?

    nothing major needs to happen,sure, but some sort of filler to keep the angle running would be needed, no?

    As May rolls around, Randy Orton is declared declared the number one contender to Rollins' WWE World Heavyweight Championship by virtue of having beaten him at WrestleMania prior to his cash in. The match is set for Extreme Rules and will be contested inside a cage as per Rollins choosing of stipulation. He's become a paranoid champ after the Lesnar fiasco and fears the Beast Incarnate could show up at anytime. He's also had run ins and slimy escapes from Roman Reigns and Dean Ambrose as of late on Raw and Smackdown. He made a plea to Stephanie for extra protection during his cage match so she has appointed Kane and Big Show as Gatekeepers and banned the RKO from being used. Randy Orton is teaching Seth a lesson and his experience is showing in the one on one situation. With his go-to move, the Apex Predator is going deeper into his repertoire. He hits a Batista Bomb and even a Pedigree, a nod to his own Evolution days, to get near falls. Then he gets a look in his eye and starts to set up for a move we haven't seen in a long time. The prone champion is about to receive the dreaded Punt Kick. At the last minute, Kane storms the ring and catches Orton by the throat. Randy escapes the Demon's chokeslam attempt mid-air and hits him with an RKO. However, Rollins has recovered and sneaks out the open door to yet another slimy finish. Big Show enters the ring and padlocks the door shut, trapping Orton in there with himself and Kane. Orton tries to fight them off but eventually succumbs and is hit with a Knockout Punch. Meanwhile a knackered but gloating Rollins laughs from the stage clutching his title belt and speaking into a microphone. ''You idiot, don't you know that I always have an ace or two up my sleeve, that's why I'm the Man. Nobody can touch me. I'm the smartest champion that ever lived hahaha!!!'' As he finishes his sentence, the unmistakable screeching sound of the Wyatt Family is heard. When the camera pans back we see Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper and Erick Rowan outside surrounding the cage. The crowd are going nuts. The two giants are locking eyes with them. Wyatt instructs his disciples to climb a side of the cage each. Kane and Big Show prepare to meet them on either side, wih their backs to each other but on opposite sides of the ring. Bray Wyatt starts to laugh as the two henchmen stop half way through their ascent. Then, up through the dead centre of the canvas comes this massive man mountain...

    Again, no major problems here except for two things You mention firstly that “the crowd go nuts”, ....Would they? I cant remember the last time the Wyatts got any sort of decent reaction. Maybe in early to mid 2014,Id agree perhaps, but they are stale these days and doing the same shtick thats gone way past their sell by date

    Also the ending is in a cage correct? Then where does Randy go at the end? .....What happens when Braun enters? Does the PPV end there? It seems to be lacking an ending here and Id feel they would need more than Brauns entrance here to satisfy people.

    And even if Braun enters and attacks Kane and Show, its not gonna be great stuff. One inexperienced monster beating up to past their prime monsters. Its not must see TV. Remember when Braun debuted, it was crickets and he attacked Roman Reigns, someone with arguably higher stock than heel Kane and Big Show..... Its lacking any real entertainment or any real reason for the crowd to become invested.



    The following night on Raw, Bray Wyatt opens up the show. He introduces us all to The New Face of Destruction and Sister Abigail's Black Sheep, Braun Strowman. He says that his family is stronger than ever and now he wants his fireflies to come with him right to the top. He lays his claim to the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. Stephanie McMahon appears on the Titantron and denies his request outright and says that you don't just get what you want by terrorizing the entire WWE Universe.

    One problemI have is the obviously heel Steph going against a heel faction. Even if the Wyatts are slowly turning face against the evil Authority, Ive no reason to get behind either Bray or Steph. Id be confused who the face and heel are in this scenario and this angle would be struggling to hold my attention, personally.
    She announces the Championship match has already been decided for the Fatal 4 Way PPV and will feature Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Randy Orton. Wyatt calmly says back that she should listen to the Universe, his fireflies. ''They grow in numbers by the week, m'lady, listen to them!!! Can't you hear?'' He leads the crowd on another rendition of Whole World in his Hands. Stephanie is adamant and abruptly says no. Bray's tone changes. ''Very well Boss woman, my followers grow by the week'', he puts his hand on Strowman's shoulder, ''but so too do my warriors''. She takes this as a threat and says that he will not receive a title shot anytime soon if that is how he wants to do business. He responds furiously by saying ''this won't be business, this will be warfare''. He then slips back into his calm demeanour and chuckles ''besides, you said anytime soon?''. He begins to sing. ''Tiiiime is on my side''.

    Apart from the flaws Ive pointed out already, my only other problem so far is teh lack of weekly progression. What happens from here to the next PPV? What does Bray and his minions do from now until then..... I would fear the big gaps in between storyline progression would not only stall the angle, but it would the fans may forget about this storyline by the time the next phase begins and it wouldnt have the same impact with this kind of patchy, gappy build.

    June

    Fatal 4 Way kicks off with an eponymous match for the WWE Tag Team Championship. This match is hard hitting and sees one stand out team put the rest of the roster on notice, namely Luke Harper and Erick Rowan. Now known as The Reapers, they are more hard hitting than ever before and have seamless chemistry. They beat The New Day, The Primetime Players and Tyson Kidd/Cesaro to claim the first gold for the Wyatt Family.

    Ive no problem with this,maybe a small minor gripe with the tag team belts not being on The New Day, but Its not a big deal. Harper and Rowan are a decent team and Ive no problems with them being elevated.
    Bo Dallas is going up against 'The Man That Gravity Forgot' Neville midway through the show. They've been having a little series up to this point but Bo is at 0-4 (or Bo and 4, as he calls it.) With each match they have, Dallas gets a little closer to victory but is beaten each time. He gives a good account of himself on this occasion but comes up short with a pinfall loss, even though his foot appeared to be on the ropes. After the match he gets on the mic and starts to do his Bo-lieve schtick. Halfway through it, he stops his cheeriness and says he can't go on like this anymore. He says the cryptic words ''I need my shepherd, come and guide me''. The commentators are speculating what this means as we go to our next video package.

    Maybe Im wrong about Adding Bo to the mix, but just because he's a real life brother to Wyatt, I feel he wouldnt be a great fit to the group. Its an interesting idea and one that is at the very least fresh, but Id have my worries about Dallas being taken seriously as hes been used as a more of a comedy jobber since going to the main roster. Maybe Im wrong but Id have my doubts.
    The main event of the PPV is in full swing. Ambrose and Reigns have been working well as a team throughout the match but have also come to blows inevitably. Rollins has been trying all sorts of shenanigans like sitting in the timekeepers' area and hiding under the ring. The closing sequence sees Dean Ambrose sending Roman Reigns to the outside to a waiting Randy Orton, who had been catching a breather. The two throughbreds get into it. Reigns looks set to spear Orton by running across the two announce tables only for Randy to counter it with a modified RKO, destroying the furniture. Rollins sneaks in to the ring and clocks Ambrose with the Title. 1.....2..... Blackout. They Wyatt Family hit the ring and cause absolute destruction. It's reminiscent of the Nexus debut when they destroyed the ring area. They're all there Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, Erick Rowan, Braun Strowman. Chaos is reigning and Wyatt gets on the mic. ''She's Here''. Out comes a hooded figure who we assume to be the personification of Sister Abigail leading a sheep mask-wearing individual in a boiler suit.

    They enter the ring. Wyatt says that Sister Abigail has given him back his Prodigal Son. She's returned his White Sheep and bestowed upon him the new Face of Destruction in the form of the Black Sheep Braun Strowman. He says that she has one more gift to give. ''We truly are Family'', says Wyatt. Each one of them says the word Family. Wyatt then thanks Sister Abigail for her latest gift and the one he treasure most, his Sacrificial Lamb. Once again, they all say Family. She removes her hood and the sheep mask comes off the so-called Lamb.
    b-ikw00iuaai1mj-1438235719-800.jpg

    It's Bray's real life sister Mika in the guise of Sister Abigail and his real life brother Bo Dallas finally joining him.

    This reveal would be a let down as no one knows who Mika is. While its all good having real life family members, I feel adding these guys to teh mix would truly add little to the group. Bo is a a comedy jobber and would take time to truly regain any sort of credibility and Mika is extremly inexperienced. She wouldnt be camera ready now let alone back in June. Having such a green performer in a prominant postion would be an unwise choice and a let down.

    Im all for Wyatts army to grow but this isnt the way. These additions would be a let down and would fail to add anything meaningful to the group besides teh reallife family connection.

    The next night on Raw sees the return of HHH. He's not in the mood of festivities, however. He takes off his blazer and rolls up his sleeves. ''Bray Wyatt you son of a bitch, you want to declare war?!'' He fumes that the cage couldn't keep the Wyatts out at Extreme Rules. The numbers at Fatal 4 Way couldn't keep them at bay. He says that they're gonna be met head on. ''I know I can't keep you out, I can damn well keep you in. You want a war? You got one. Prepare for War Games''

    Whos teh face and heel here? Hunters cvoming off as a face but Seths still a slimey heel? Im really unsure what way Ive to percieve Bray and his Crew as well as Steph and Hunter.

    Also youve announced War games, nice touch but wheres teh rest of teh build up to the PPV and the match? Hunter declares war and thats it? what happens in between? Theres a huge void of build up which I think you should have at least drawn out a summary.

    One other gripe is that Gimmick matches should be used to end or blow off a feud, not be teh first real match inthe feud. I know current WWE feuds can operate this way sometimes, but it doesnt mean its the right move. A match like this should be the match to end all feuds, not begin it.


    July
    From here Team Authority is assembled comprising of HHH, Seth Rollins, Sheamus, Rusev and Kevin Owens.

    There can be some descension between Mr Money in the Bank Sheamus and Seth Rollins, the current Champion. All of which angers HHH. Kevin Owens is just the pain in the ass he always is but as he's a prize fight Rusev has done business with the Authority on and off and wants to climb the ladder again so is has sworn his allegiance to the top brass.

    Where did Owens come from? How has he debuted? Has he just arrived? Hesa Prize Fighter? How do we know that since he is supposed to be feuding with Cena now and explaining these things us, Yet here he is thrust into this angle with no build up?


    August and beyond

    SummerSlam would be around the corner with some fresh direction. Seth Rollins vs Bray Wyatt could be a great main event with two lads in their 20's. You could potentially mix it up with Wyatt vs Lesnar for a match we've never seen. Even a fan made graphic gets me excited for that one

    Sadly I dont give Bray as much credit as you. Hes a bore to watch in teh ring, his matches are slow and plodding, making them a struggle to get through. His matches should eb short and sweet and he cant do that at Main Event level. He would bring down Rollins and Brock IMO

    From a storyline point of view, Bray versus either guy, while fresh, is hard to imagine currently.

    Bray (IF HES A FACE, IM STILL CONFUSED FROM YOUR BUILD UP) versus slimey heel Seth doesnt work ...not a hope.

    Bray versus face Seth Rollins is hard toimagine, mainly because Seth cant go from being a had everything handed to him heel to top face that quick without looking ridiculous.

    Bray versus Brock, couldwork but it only work with plenty of outside shenanigans, as without them Id feel that its simply too one side for Brock not to win.

    I feel this storyline works on quite a few levels.

    I sadly dont, its very hard to imagine whos teh face and whos the heel in this story, and regardless of who it is, I would have a hard time cheering for either party as the good guys. Both would lack huge credibility in that department.

    Bray as a face wouldnt get over, Bray as a heel isnt a top star. Hes damaged so much in the last year with lazy booking and little charcter progression that Id find it hard to belive to see him being positioned succesfully at the top of the card.

    My answer would make a star out of a man the fans were only dying to see be the new top heel when he debuted only for WWE to feed him to Cena and cut his legs out. In my scenario, I give him the rocket he so sorely needed and he would be the heel star WWE so badly need.
    It gets Bray Wyatt over as a major star, something he should have been a long time ago.
    It doesnt,it just positions him there, I feel theres so much damage done to him that he would fail to get over.
    It fixes the damage done to him following the nonsensical losses to John Cena and Undertaker at consecutive WrestleManias
    While it does go a long way to fixing this, Wyatt is just so badly damaged that his charcter has go away heat and literally bores the masses. It would never full achieve overness to which you imagine.

    -
    It gets the crowd cheering for him, something they've wanted to do for a long while.

    Something They havent done since his feud with Cena ended.... 1that would be just under a year from when your storyline begins.... That time is long gone and WWE missed teh boat on that one and sadly the damage has been done and the brand of Bray Wyatt is beyond repair at this stage.

    His entrance pops a crowd fairly hard still even though they give him crap to work with.
    As soon as his entrance has ended, the slience begins. In early 2014, the crowd would buzz.... in early 2015....silence. Time has passed Bray Wyatt by sadly.
    I've seldom seen a heel/tweener as over as he has been with crowds chanting and singing along with his words.

    MITB Dolph Ziggler was arguebaly more over, look at his face turn......

    Again in 2015, hes not over anymore.... the buzz(ard) is gone. The time for a good storyline for him was after his Cena feud in 2014, since then its just been down hill. The fans dont care about him anymore.

    Push him to a face leaning tweener with a dark side, like Taker was in the late 90's.
    You look back at Takers late ninities run with Rose tinted glasses. He wasnt that over, WWE were in trouble and it was Austin and Rock that saved things, not Taker. He wasnt as big a deal as people remember him to be in the late 90's as face.
    -It introduces freaking War Games!!! Here's a fresh concept for WWE.

    Its not fresh, its been done before by WCW. Any fan with a network sub can check that out.
    It would 100% draw.
    Thats an opinion,not fact. While its a cool concept, to say it will 100 percent draw is a huge over statement.
    It's got the novelty of being new and nostalgic all at once.

    Ah so you admit its not fresh. Thank you.
    A great opportunity financially and creatively.

    How is it? Surely creating a big cage cost money.... and having two rings means less tickets to sell in the arena. Sounds like a big expense with no guarenttee of being a finacial success. Its a risk IMO, esp with the competitors inside. Would the Wyatt misfits really be a main event draw? I doubt it.




    -
    It's a chance for the likes of Rusev, Harper, Kevin Owens to mix it up in the main event. Owens vs Wyatt would be great.

    You would also have Dallas and Harper and Strowman in there, stinking up the joint.

    Also Bray Wyatt v Owens..... Owens is a great wrestler but Bray would bring him down IMO.
    Likewise Rusev. It also gives the talented Bo Dallas a fresh start and lets fans see him interact with his brother, which they've often pined for.

    Have people pined for it? Really? I feel he'd be a fish out of water when coupled with these guys, esp after being a joke comedy jobber for the last year.



    In summary, Your angle, will something different, isnt going to set teh WWE alight like you may wish. Its litered with flaws, unrealistic expectations and ultimately lacks a solid build with a lacklustre pay off.

    My angle has much more potential to be a winner in my eyes and elevates a star who WWE were dying to get behind at the time, rather than a man whos buzz dies a year too late.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    I'm gonna counteract your points first and then address your issues with my scenario. Here goes.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Steph and Hunter come out to address the crowd for the end segment of Monday Night Raw, 2 weeks before Extreme Rules. They say how much Wrestlemania was a success and it’s all because of them and they declare The Authority have made WWE a better place. Suddenly they are interrupted by the music of.... ....Vince McMahon.

    Vince struts out and says hes been watching how Hunter and Stephanie have handled running the WWE over the last few months and he agrees they’ve been a success. But even though they have been a success, watching them run the company has made him want to return himself. Vince says he misses running his baby and he is here tonight to take back the reigns from his daughter and her husband. Hunter and Steph don’t seem to be to happy about this, and they tell Vince he cant do this, But Vince politely tells them its already agreed with the WWE shearholders, Vince McMahon is back in charge.

    He says that even though WWE has been running fine the last few months, Vince says the shareholders have watched the last few months of WWE programming and they are unhappy with the level of involvement from the authority and quite frankly, he is too. Vince and the shareholders believe that the Authority are drunk with Power and that hes here to step in and steer the WWE into calmer waters. Vince says its nothing personal, its just business and as Chairman he’s her to run the show and that Hunter and Steph can go back to working behind the scenes.


    It's a bit of a flakey reason for Vince's return to kick off your massive summer angle. He agrees they've been succesful but wants to stop them. Also, wasn't it Hunter and Steph that said Vince was incapable of running it last time and this so-called Board of Directors gave him a vote of no confidence? It's all wishy washy.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    The show ends with Hunter and Steph looking disillusioned and Vince smiling.

    From here things go as the have done except without Hunter and Steph. Vince stacks the deck against Seth Rollins by placing him in the matches against at the next few PPVs (the Randy Orton,Kane, Reigns 4 way, The Ambrose series and The Brock match. At Battleground) and his feuds play out more or less the same except Seth keeps retaining via cheating rather than help from the Authority and Rollins come is still champion heading into Summerslam.


    Now before we get to Summer slam another story develops.....Well my big Summer Angle develops.......Enter KEVIN OWENS

    I wouldnt change his initial debut on the Main roster as I believe it was pretty much perfect. I’d have him interrupt Cena and leave him lying in the ring, holding the NXT title aloft while stand on Cena’s US title and I’d also have him beat Cena in similar fashion in his debut match, just like he did. But here’s where things change.

    The lead up to Money IN The Bank PPV
    They would continue their rivalry as they did, with Machine Gun Kelly being put through a table and a rematch happening at MITB. In the build up Id half Kevin be so confident of becoming United States Champion, that he would vacate the NXT title (keeps him stronger than having him lose it to Balor in Japan.)


    Nothing different so far so bar the US/NXT title swap, let's see where you go with it.



    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Money in the Bank PPV

    The match would open the show and the match would go down much of the same way as it did, only Owens wins clean again. After the match, Owens would get on the mic and stand over a fallen John Cena and berate him before he quotes his own hero Owen hart by saying “Enough is Enough and its time for a change”. Then I’d have Owens decimate John Cena, and I mean decimate him. I’d have him beat John to a bloody pulp and bash him repeatedly with chair before delivering a running powerbomb off the stage to a table below (Similar to what he did to MGK). Owens not only beats Cena, but he destroys him and puts him on the shelf. The commentators put Owens over big and Owens leaves as US champion and the conqueror of John Cena
    .

    I think that's grand and so would most other IWC fans but I can't imagine they'd ever allow Cena to look that weak. They wouldn't even let Rollins beat him clean and he was WWE Champion. Needed outside help. Even at that they made him drop the strap back to Big Match John a month later.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Owens is out to address the crowd. He tells a short story about how Vince McMahon and his talent scouts looked Owens up in 2008 at a Ring of Honor show and that he didn’t get signed because I was slightly over weight and that he didn’t have that Dwanye Johnson or John Cena look or physique. Owens says that was his motivation in the years that followed and that since then he worked hard to prove to everyone that I am the greatest wrestler that ever lived. He says in August last year he was signed by an NXT talent scout, unknown to McMahon and in the last year he has proved in NXT that he cant be stopped. He says Vince McMahon lit that fire inside him years ago and that last night he beat his boy John Cena to a bloody pulp and now hes calling Vince out to make him apologise and admit that he got it wrong.
    Vince is out and he lays into Owens for his actions as of late and chastises him for attacking MGK and injuring John Cena. Vince is irate and accuses Kevin Owens of not appreciating the opportunities the WWE and he have given him.

    I thought Vince was pro-Authority in general and therefore anti-Cena? To be honest, all the indy talent scouting stuff is far to close to inside terms and they barely acknowledge ROH exists as it is. It's practically their biggest competition in the US. Great for all the fantasy bookers on Wrestlezone etc sure but in reality I don't see it, defo not if Vince is involved. Tripper touches on it in a miniscule fashion down at NXT but on the main show and with Vince himself, I don't see it.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Owens says hes been waiting for his chance to speak with Vince 1 on 1 in the ring since they day he signed. Owens says hes going to tell Vince a few home truths, s suggesting how he never got signed in past was because of how Vince and Johnny Ace called him a fat, out-of-shape spot monkey. He says Vince never liked him because he didn’t have the look of a “sports entertainer” and that he didn’t fit the WWE mould. Owens says he worked his ass off and he earned his opportunity the hard way and says it wasn’t even Vince that signed him anyway. Owens says he sent a message to not only the WWE locker room last night, but he sent a message to Vince that he is the real deal and that he will stop at nothing to prove him wrong.

    Again, more online speak. Not gonna happen. Not in Vince's lifetime.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Vince lays into him, asking him “Do you know who the hell your talking to damn it??”
    Owens calmly responds : “Do you know who I am?”, before kicking Vince in the gut and delivering a huge Pop-up-Powerbomb to the chairmen.
    Owens drags Vince up and throws him to the outside and up teh ramp. He sets Vince up for a Powerbomb off the stage and Referees come out to try dissuade Owens from going through with it. Owens doesn’t listen and jumps off the stage to a table (and padding) below. Referees and security tackle him and escort him out as he smiles sadistically as EMTs check on Vince. Vince is stretched out and taken away to a local medical facility.

    Vince is 70. He can't bump at all anymore. 10 years ago he tore both of his quads merely walking to the ring at Royal Rumble 2005. Sad, but true.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    The next week we here from Michael Cole that Vince is in an induced coma as a result of Kevin Owens attack. We see clips of Stephanie and Hunter at Vinces bedside throughout the show and its all very emotional stuff. Triple H eventually storms off with the declaration hes going to make Owens pay. Owens is absent from the show as he is suspended indefinitely according to Michael Cole throughout the show and replays of last weeks attack is played throughout.

    The next week comes around and Vince is still in a coma and his condition is worsening. ,but we are told by Michael Cole that an emergency meeting was called and we will go live to the meeting at the end of the show. During the show we have a sit down interview with Kevin Owens, who shows no remorse for his actions and basically says Vince got what he deserved.
    The End of the show comes and we see Triple H addressing the boards members. He tells the board that its unlikely that Vince will recover and he has a medical report from the doctor which outlines that Vince is at deaths door. Hunter tells the board that Stephanie is at Vinces bedside holding vigil with the rest of the family and that with Vinces condition looking bleak, he has obtained power of attorney over Vince estate since Steph and the rest of the family are busy at Vinces bedside. Hunter tells the board that with his own shares and now with power of attorney over Vinces shares, he is in temporary full control of WWE .

    So basically we have a near murder happen on a PG show? Vince is gonna die is he? I'm sure the kids will love that, and the sponsors.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Its announced that Triple H will return to WWE at battleground and its hyped throughout the show. Currently Vinces condition hasn’t gotten any better and Hunter and Steph and the rest of his family are still by his bedside. There is no sign of Owens on the show, but its announced that he will be a guest on the John Stewart Show during the week, prior to Battleground


    The John Stewart Show

    Owens is interviewed for around 5 minutes and says that he will be remembered as the greatest wrestler who ever lived and as the man who killed Vince McMahon. Stewart has a right go at him calling him a monster and an remorseless human being, which prompts Owens to grab Stewart by ten scruff before leaving.

    As the man that killed Vince McMahon?! Come on man, that will never fly. Jumping the shark here I'm afraid.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Raw – five weeks until Summerslam

    The match is hyped all through the night and it comes to the end of the show. Hunter is in streetfight clothes and calls Owens out for a fight. Owens appears via satellite and says hes a Prizefighter and now that he put Cena on the shelf and Vince in a coffin, he only fights when its on his terms. Owens says he will turn up at Summerslam and says he wants Hunter on the big stage. Hunter accepts and Hunter is fuming at the non appearance of Owens to close the show.

    I like it... except the whole coffin thing. It's tasteless, but not in a good way. It's just crass. They type of thing that would make parents switch off for the sake of their children

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Raw – 4 weeks until Summerslam

    Still no improvemnt from Vince but we are informed that a contact signing will happen next week from Owens and Hunter. We get a sit down interview with Hunter says how hes gonna get vengeance for Vince and his family at Summerslam and we also get one from Owens saying hes going to take out Triple H at Summerslam and add him to the list of names hes destroyed.

    Raw – 3 Weeks until Summerslam

    The contact signing takes place and a gulf of security are between Hunter and Owens as they both sign and have hurtful words for each other. Hunter goes for Owens but the security keeps them apart.

    As we go off the air, Michael Cole leaves us with a news Update-...... VINCE IS AWAKE.

    Raw – 2 weeks until Summerslam

    We get a full update on Vince that hes awake and that hes recovering at a fast rate and progressing well.

    Raw – 1 week until Summerslam

    Hunter and Steph are live from his beside and Vince says he will be at Summerslam to witness Hunter kick Owens ass.

    Reads like a script from the writers of Eastenders. Where's the action? The same thing you called me out on you're actually guilty of. It's just moaning and moping and talking. Sounds like dreary TV.
    .
    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Summerslam – Owens v Triple H

    Owens is out first and is looking very confident. Triple H is out next and is accompanied by Stephanie whos wheeling Vince McMahon down to rindside. Hunter stand on the outside and doesn’t do his usual entrance, except he eyeballs Owens from the outside. We can hear Vince yelling on at Hunter to “kill him, kill that son of a bitch!” The commentators note that its strange that Hunter isn’t going straight to attack Owens with caution to the wind, but put it down to caution against the dangerous Owens. Hunter, though originally looking fired up, askes for the Mic at ringside.

    Hunter : "Vince.....Pop..... this is for you!"
    Hunter slides in the ring and goes nose to nose with Owens before .......EMBRACING OWENS!!!!?
    That right, they hug in the ring and begin to laugh at Vince and Steph on the outside. It was all a rues.

    A ruse or a Russo? Because that's what this all sounds like, wheelchairs and swerves. Again, more of this ''kill him'' stuff that's not gonna be acceptable in this current climate. The biggest issue here is that you've wasted the main event of the biggest match of the year sans Mania on a swerve angle. There's literally no match and no physicality in the main event on the 2nd biggest event of the entire year. Not good enough, you might get away with it on a B-show, not Summerslam.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Hunter mocks both Steph and Vince before explaining that he hatched this plan months ago when Vince inserted himself back to power. Hunter explains he kept WWE running over the years when Vince lost interest or got bored and he kept it going. He says it wasn’t right what happened and he was the rightful owner of WWE.
    Hunter reveals that it was him who saw potential in Owens and it was him who signed him to NXT and it was him who suggested he attack Cena and it was him who suggest he calls out Vince and attack him.

    With Vince out of the picture and Stephanie too busy with tending to him, Triple H used this to gain power of attorney over Vinces shares and now Triple H is the majority shareholder and in full control of WWE as he signed Vinces shares over to himself. He says he had to do it Steph and he doesn’t regret it one bit. He says Steph held him back and that Vince is a fossil who refuses to step down and call it a day.

    Stephs world has been shattered and is in floods of tears and Vince is red with anger. Owens and Hunter laugh do a “too sweet” gesture as Vince and Steph are left reeling.
    Also at Summerslam Rollins will beat Roman reigns after a hard fought battle, with Rollins winning clean. After the match, Roman will extend his hand to Rollins, explaining they both left it all in the ring and suggesting he gained his respect. Rollins shakes and they end the show putting their past behind them after a war in the ring. Hunter and Owens are now the top heels and Seth can challenge them initially.

    They can be confronted by Rollins, who is now showing more face qualities in this promo following how Summerslam ended and will set up a Rollins v Owens feud. This can lead to many possibilities and great matches, as Rollins is now top face and champion and he can feud with Owens. Great matches would be the outcome between Rollins and Owens in the future, a possible face reunion of the Shield and perhaps a Rollins v Hunter match down the road and maybe even Top heel Owens v a returning Brock!

    Some of your stuff is good but I think turning Rollins is missing a trick, he's a fantastic slime ball heel. I'd love to see him and Owens on the same page actually. Similarly, turning Steph is a big no no. She's the number 1 female baddie there is. She's believable in her role and sometimes I wonder if she's even acting.



    Let's see what you had to say about the Wyatt's War of Attrition.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    I will openly admit that I roll my eyes at the sight of Bray Wyatt and his family. In 2013 they had a fresh vibe to them and certainly an intriguing mystery about them. Sadly, in the 2 years that have past since their debut on the Main Roster, a lack of creative direction and no character progression has slowly killed any momentum Bray Wyatt had in WWE. With each feud, his character continues to stagnate and never develop into anything more than a cool look and entrance. His rambling promos go no where and his feuds are usually baseless and as the months creep by his persona is getting more damaged as time progresses. Not only that but lazy booking has not only hurt him, but it seems to have a negative affect on those feuding with him.

    Some of what you say here is true, as in the lack of direction and the character stagnation. That's why I feel this is the perfect candidate for an overhaul. Let's give him direction, let's flesh out his character. You seem to think he needs change, so do I. We're in agreement there. Just because he's stalled a bit, does that mean we write him, and his family off just like that? To be honest, that makes you part of the problem more so than him. This era of instant gratification is so annoying. What if we gave up on the Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia? Stars can go grow and explode with a little tweaking. Austin and Rock did and became mega stars after being duds when they came in. Both went on to be major face-leening tweeners and full on anti-hero style babyfaces. I'm proposing that with Bray et al.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Dean Ambrose value had certainly dropped as a result of a feud with Wyatt and Roman Reigns is in my opinion falling victim of being placed opposite to Bray and his cronies.

    I seem to remember everyone and their mother marking out for the Shield vs Wyatt Family scenario. So maybe they've all lost their appeal? Nah, it's creative direction. Look at Dean, he lost something like 8 PPV matches in a row in 2014. Roman was rammed down our throats and rejected. Neither of those things have anything to do with Bray Wyatt. In fact, I'd say both were at their hottest when feuding with the Family. Also, the Shield vs Wyatts feud showed that a faction based power struggle really can whet the appetites. The crowd were without doubt going nuts for that and there's no reason why they couldn't again. The lines were blurred in that it was two heel faction going head to head, with one side (The Shield) definitely leaning towards the face side. My scenario has a similar dynamic only this time it's the Family who will be shifting sides.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Now while I’ve no problem with the opening with Brock and Seth, seeing as this is what played out in WWE in April, Its a fine way to begin. No problems here. I will pick a hole in having Bray appear on Raw straight after his match with Taker at Wrestlemania. Bray was made look very ordinary against an ageing Dead Man and he suffered a loss which damaged him severely. As I recall WWE kept him off TV in hope that his character recovered from such a damaging loss for the best part of 2 months following Wrestlemania in the hope that time away from the ring would help the audience forget about this big loss. So now after a big loss to Taker, you have him declaring to Takeover Raw? His credibility is lacking 24 hours on from Raw after losing to a broken down man twice his age at Wrestlemania. Id fail to believe him being able to “Takeover” anything after seeing look so weak against Taker only 1 day prior.

    First things first, kayfabe-wise the Deadman is ageless. It's there in the name sure. Losing to Undertaker at Wrestlemania, you're seriously gonna use that as a stick to beat someone with? My as well write off Jake Roberts, Randy Orton, Shawn Michaels (x2) and HHH (x3!). In 28 years, Undertaker has only lost once on the biggest stage of them all. That's why we saw all the memes of people staring in disbelief when the Beast beat him and took the streak. Having Taker lose again the year after would've been a tough sell for any Manias going forward. A total non issue in my view. Credibility doesn't take a hit. It didn't for Edge, Orton or Batista. As far as a takeover goes, the post-mania Raw is always a genesis for fresh angles, debuts and storyline arcs. Easily have Wyatt say that he's the one that's here tonight, not the Deadman. Simplistic but effective.


    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    But where is Brock in all of this? Brocks gone nuts right and Steph has come out to suspend him right? and then The Wyatts Show up? Has Brock vanished? Bit odd that hes there one minute then gone the next when Wyatt enters.

    If you remeber the segment correctly. Brock burst everyone. He was threatened with suspension if he didn't cease. He then F5'd the life out of the cameraman and was 'fired' by Steph. He then walked out of his own accord. He didn't vanish. Stephanie is in the ring giving out over the Mic stating her dominance and the lights go out. Again, it's easy, not complicated to follow.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Ok what? Its May. What happened in the 2/3/4 weeks after this Raw after Wrestlemania? Did Steph react? What did Wyatt do next? There's a huge gap here and it be odd not to follow it up at least before the May PPV? Nothing major needs to happen,sure, but some sort of filler to keep the angle running would be needed, no?

    You want me to write every miniscule detail? Should I include verbatim promos and call play by play spots? You said the phrase 'some sort of filler'. Who wants to read fluffed out filler? I've included the major points of the angle here. I'm showing the most entertaining and relevant aspects of the programme, not what Luke Harper had for breakfast. Obviously you could have Harper and Rowan putting the tag division on notice and establish themselves as the Reapers. Have them absolutely obliterate Los Matadores, give them credit for putting the Usos on the shelf. Get themselves in the tag title hunt as I've set them up for later on. Bray continues with his crowd pleasing promos and gets over the Time Is On My Side tune like he did in NXT, the audience absolutely loved that. As it's kind of against the spirit to post more media in rebuttals, I'll implore people to remember the Wyatt Family's so-called Chapter Closing segment in NXT before they debuted. Goosebumps type of energy in the arena.


    My story had a post match Rollins laugh on stage clutching his title belt and speaking into a microphone gloating only to be interrupted by the unmistakable screeching sound of the Wyatt Family. When the lights came on we saw Wyatt, Luke Harper and Erick Rowan outside surrounding the cage. The crowd were going nuts. Kane and Big Show prepared to meet them on either side of the cage they were climbing, when up through the dead centre of the canvas comes this massive man mountain Braun Strowman
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Again, no major problems here except for two things You mention firstly that “the crowd go nuts”, ....Would they? I cant remember the last time the Wyatts got any sort of decent reaction. Maybe in early to mid 2014,Id agree perhaps, but they are stale these days and doing the same shtick thats gone way past their sell by date

    As stated in my previous paragraph, the crowd would be onside at this stage with the sing-a-long cult syle stuff that's going on. I was in London last year for Raw and Bray was extremely over. The cell phone lights, the taunts, the signature moves, all of it widely cheered. I think with more subtle pandering and audience participation., that would grow by the week.As for staleness? This reinvigerates everything and thus remedies your concern, in my opinion.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Also the ending is in a cage correct? Then where does Randy go at the end? What happens when Braun enters? Does the PPV end there? It seems to be lacking an ending here and Id feel they would need more than Brauns entrance here to satisfy people.And even if Braun enters and attacks Kane and Show, its not gonna be great stuff. One inexperienced monster beating up to past their prime monsters. Its not must see TV. Remember when Braun debuted, it was crickets and he attacked Roman Reigns, someone with arguably higher stock than heel Kane and Big Show..... Its lacking any real entertainment or any real reason for the crowd to become invested.

    You're right, it does lack a proper ending. That's because it's setting up a bigger angle. That's the nature of the business these days. Some lesser PPV's are treated as major Raws. Remember Brock Lesnar vs Seth Rollins at Battleground this year? That was just a catalyst for Taker to return and confront Brock. This was in a WWE Championship match. It's not uncommon in this climate. The visual of Strowman coming up through the canvas in the Black Sheep mask would be pretty fantastic and would generate excitement and intrigue in a show closing PPV moment, rather than midway through a generic Raw.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    One problem I have is the obviously heel Steph going against a heel faction. Even if the Wyatts are slowly turning face against the evil Authority, Ive no reason to get behind either Bray or Steph. Id be confused who the face and heel are in this scenario and this angle would be struggling to hold my attention, personally.

    Again I refer you back to the start of my post with the Shield vs Wyatts feud. Two heel factions squaring off can work. The crowd will side with the team that shows subtle faces traits. In thisn scenario that's the Wyatts. Bray calling the people with the cell phone lights his Fireflies and encouarging and engaging them to follow him. It's a more interactive version of Taker's Creatures of the Night followers from back in the day. He's pandering, but subtly and with a slow build, the best way to do it. Also, the majority will always go against Steph. From mark fans to smart ones. She plays the character so well it's hard not to. Or maybe she's not acting at all.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Ive no problem with this this (Harper and Rowan winning the 4way for the titles). Maybe a small minor gripe with the tag team belts not being on The New Day, but Its not a big deal. Harper and Rowan are a decent team and Ive no problems with them being elevated.

    Finally, we agree on something! Yes, I think it's a good move to put the straps on the lads, it's criminal that they never got a reign in their original run. They can still interact with The New Day, which would be a riot to be honest. The New Day working for the Authority in this capacity would be very entertaining and couild keep the Reapers looking mega strong.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Maybe Im wrong about Adding Bo to the mix, but just because he's a real life brother to Wyatt, I feel he wouldnt be a great fit to the group. Its an interesting idea and one that is at the very least fresh, but Id have my worries about Dallas being taken seriously as hes been used as a more of a comedy jobber since going to the main roster. Maybe Im wrong but Id have my doubts.

    Im all for Wyatts army to grow but this isn't the way. These additions would be a let down and would fail to add anything meaningful to the group besides the real life family connection. This reveal would be a let down as no one knows who Mika is. While its all good having real life family members, I feel adding these guys to the mix would truly add little to the group. Bo is a a comedy jobber and would take time to truly regain any sort of credibility and Mika is extremly inexperienced. She wouldnt be camera ready now let alone back in June.


    As you said, it's fresh and at least gives him a shot. I'm not planning on turning him into a world beater though. Like all the great stables, there's definitely a place in the crew to be filled. There is always strength in numbers, professional wrestling is no different. Someone who wants to get to the top of the game is best served to seek allies. Some wrestlers rely on their soldiers, some rely on their family. In this case it's both. Literally and figuratively. It adds a little Bo Dallas has been summoned to be the Sacrificial Lamb. This is the role he will assume. We won't be challenging for the World Title anytime soon. He is pretty much what his name would indicate - he's the sacrificial one who the stable leader sends out to soften up the opponents. Frequently a lower midcarder who's a good worker that just doesn't have what it takes to advance into the upper echelon of wrestling. Therefore, being associated with the stable and having some of its heat rub off on him is his best bet. Think Heath Slater in Nexus.

    As for Mika. How do you know she's not 'camera ready'? Are you just assuming? She looks to have great chemistry with Bray and Bo on their Instagram. She could be the next Lana charisma wise for all you or I know. Adding family adds legitimacy. Look at the Hart Foundation in 1997. Mika isn't specifically intended to be a major star from a scripting point of view by the way, she's there initially to put a personification to the Sister Abigail character and to give depth to the Wyatt Family. As you said, they currently lack fleshing out and are stale and directionless. This adds more layers and gives a fresh and real element. If she turns out to be unsuccesful, you don't need to use her much further. On the contrary, she could be fantastic in the role and we have yet another fantastic character based female rather than another cookie cutter Barbie.


    I mentioned Hunter coming out and declaring war on the Wyatt Family. You said.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Who's the face and heel here? Hunters coming off as a face but Seths still a slimey heel? Im really unsure what way Ive to perceive Bray and his Crew as well as Steph and Hunter.

    Again, I don't know why you're confused. Bray, backed by his Fireflies, is waging war on the heel Authority. HHH is still solidly heel, that dynamic hasn't shifted, the Wyatt's have.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Also you've announced War games, nice touch but wheres teh rest of the build up to the PPV and the match? Hunter declares war and thats it? what happens in between? Theres a huge void of build up which I think you should have at least drawn out a summary.

    WarGames in itself is the draw. Over the next couple off weeks you would have singles and tags pitting various combinations of either side against each other. You would have top and midcard heels vying for spots on Team Authority such as The New Day but they'd perhaps not be serious enough for what lays ahead. You would also have a match on the go home Raw to determine which side gets the man advantage first in the cage. Additionally, you'd have vignettes of War Games from years gone by with the selling point of it's so dangerous that WWE have refused to sanction it until now. Ric Flair could go on about how it shortened his career and the likes. Sting is another man synonymous with War Games and I'd definitely have him as a player in the lead up, either in a temporary shaky alliance with the Wyatts to take on the Authority, or as a true Vigilante and trying to keep everything in line. If I were to have him as an ally, he'd replace the Sacrificial Lamb Bo Dallas who'd have been taken out viciously by Kevin Owens and Sheamus in a bid to impress Hunter.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    One other gripe is that Gimmick matches should be used to end or blow off a feud, not be teh first real match in the feud. I know current WWE feuds can operate this way sometimes, but it doesnt mean its the right move. A match like this should be the match to end all feuds, not begin it.

    There's been tit for tat all summer since Wrestlemania. It's not the first time they've crossed pathes. Austin vs McMahon occured in a cage match at Valentine's Day massacre for their first ever PPV bout. As you've said, blow offs aren't confined to specialty matches anymore. We have TLC, Hell in a Cell, Extreme Rules all just as PPV's in their own right. This would be new though, as far as WWE goes, with a nod to nostalgia also. A really unique situation fro any aspect of the business in 2015.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Where did Owens come from? How has he debuted? Has he just arrived? Hesa Prize Fighter? How do we know that since he is supposed to be feuding with Cena now and explaining these things us, Yet here he is thrust into this angle with no build up?

    Kevin Owens debuted in May 2015. HHH hasn't returned til after that in my booking. He's recruiting. No reason Owens can't have the exact debut he had with Cena. This actually would put the Authority on notice and have him as a major prospective candidate. Also, around the time he debuted, Owens was in five separate feuds. FIVE! HE was at odds with Hideo Itami, Finn Balor, Samoa Joe, Alex Riley and John Cena. That's without considering his verbal assaults on Sami Zayn week in week out. KO is a multitasker if that's what you're worried about. If he can feud with 5 people as is what happened, he can go between Cena and this angles no problem. He's already shown that.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Sadly I dont give Bray as much credit as you. Hes a bore to watch in the ring, his matches are slow and plodding, making them a struggle to get through. His matches should be short and sweet and he cant do that at Main Event level. He would bring down Rollins and Brock IMO.

    If anything, he actually stands out from a lot of the roster in-ring. His arsenal is pretty varied and unique. Take for example his running body block. That looks devastating. A man his size with that agility is pretty great. He was formerly known as the Army Tank with the Ferrari Engine in his Nexus days. It was a fitting moniker. Some of his other moves like his brutal uranage and drop suplex are spectacular, as is his theatrical finisher. It's a shame you don't give him credit in between the ropes. I do and so do many others. He won the PWI Match of the Year Award in 2014 at Payback vs John Cena. Earlier that year, he was one of the only shining lights from the controversial Royal Rumble event in Pittsburgh. His match with Daniel Bryan was rated as highly as 9.5/10 in some publications. You'll say Bryan was the reason for that I'm sure but it takes two to tango. Additionally, he was one of the most popular combatants in the Rumble itself. Also worth mentioning that Bray Wyatt was voted the No.6 wrestler in their 500 in the same year.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    From a storyline point of view, Bray versus either guy, while fresh, is hard to imagine currently. Bray (IF HES A FACE, IM STILL CONFUSED FROM YOUR BUILD UP) versus slimey heel Seth doesnt work ...not a hope.
    Bray versus face Seth Rollins is hard to imagine, mainly because Seth cant go from being a had everything handed to him heel to top face that quick without looking ridiculous.

    There's no face Seth. Not at all. I don't see why Wyatt vs a slimy heel is hard to imagine? Brock did it fairly handily didn't he? You adding 'not a hope' at the end doesn't add a thing to your argument nor does typing in all capital letters, which is akin to shouting online.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Bray versus Brock, could work but it only work with plenty of outside shenanigans, as without them Id feel that its simply too one side for Brock not to win.

    Can work, as you've said, and would work. I'd like to see it and so too would plenty online from what I can see. Brock vs Strowman could be something unreal looking visually. Harper could go with him. He's murdered Dallas already as we've seen. Some good stuff could go on. Bray vs Heyman on the mic could be decent too.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Bray as a face wouldnt get over, Bray as a heel isnt a top star. Hes damaged so much in the last year with lazy booking and little charcter progression that Id find it hard to belive to see him being positioned succesfully at the top of the card. My answer would make a star out of a man the fans were only dying to see be the new top heel when he debuted only for WWE to feed him to Cena and cut his legs out. In my scenario, I give him the rocket he so sorely needed and he would be the heel star WWE so badly need.

    I disagree. Bray is already over with a good portion of the audience and has appeal from a merchandise point of view. He's a great character based wrestler. No reason he couldn't kick on like Jake the Snake did. Not saying he's on his level (who is) but there's appeal there. To hark back to my earlier references, can you imagine The Ringmaster coming in and then headlining WrestleMania three years later? If they gave up on him back then, we'd never have gotten the Rattlesnake. Owens is great but it's too early just yet to make him the top star in WWE.


    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    I feel theres so much damage done to him that he would fail to get over.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Wyatt is just so badly damaged that his charcter has go away heat and literally bores the masses.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Sadly the damage has been done and the brand of Bray Wyatt is beyond repair at this stage.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Time has passed Bray Wyatt by sadly.


    I've covered this already. You're just banging the same drum over and over. You want to write off a talent saying it's too late for him. That's preposterous to be quite frank. The Connecticut Blueblood Hunter Hearst Helmsely never becomes a 13 time World Champion. Took him a good few years to hit the top of the card. He wasn't particularly over when he came in. He's a non entity if you're in charge.

    I suggested pushing Bray as face leaning tweener with a dark side, like Taker was in the late 90's. You went on to say the following:
    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    You look back at Takers late ninities run with Rose tinted glasses. He wasnt that over, WWE were in trouble and it was Austin and Rock that saved things, not Taker. He wasnt as big a deal as people remember him to be in the late 90's as face.

    Except he was. He main evented Wrestlemania 13 and won the title, he faced Steve Austin at SummerSlam 98 in the main event. He led the Ministry (admittedly as a tweener heel going against the fully heel corporation) to one of the more fondly remembered angles of the Attitude Era. You mentioned Rock and Austin. Again, going with your logic, Maivia and Ringmaster don't get a chance, we just write them off.

    I said:
    It introduces freaking War Games!!! Here's a fresh concept for WWE.


    To which you hit back:
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Its not fresh, its been done before by WCW. Any fan with a network sub can check that out.

    Read the bolded bit. It's fresh for WWE. Don't be obtuse. There's an audience for it.

    When I said it would draw you replied :
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Thats an opinion,not fact. While its a cool concept, to say it will 100 percent draw is a huge over statement.

    WWE sent out a survey in October 2009 to WWE fans asking what they wanted to rename the pay-per-view Judgment Day. One of those choices was WWE War Games, there's a curiousity there at the very least. It's an opinion of course, all of this is. It is a cool concept. Coupled with the fact it's a new match in WWE, I'm fairly sure it would have appeal. You mentioned also it's on the Network. That's great, people can go back and check it out and should be encouraged to do so by vignettes. I said the idea was both fresh and nostalgic which you clung to.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    Ah so you admit its not fresh. Thank you.

    As I said, it ticks both boxes which makes it novel. That's unique. It's what's known as a unique selling point, essential in any business. Disappointed with your posting style there tbh.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe

    Surely creating a big cage cost money.
    ... and having two rings means less tickets to sell in the arena. Sounds like a big expense with no guarenttee of being a finacial success.

    WWE acquired WCW's intellectual and physical assets in 2001. The cage is already built, ergo it costs no money to create. As far as the rings taking up space goes, the Elimination Chamber takes up just as much space. It's a moot point.

    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    You would also have Dallas and Harper and Strowman in there, stinking up the joint.

    Harper can work. Best big man in the company for my money. Silly statement. Dallas can work. Strowman is an enforcer above all else, not everyone can be Dean Malenko. And even if they were, that would suck. Need variety in these types of matches.
    Originally posted by beakerjoe
    In summary, Your angle, while something different, isnt going to set the WWE alight like you may wish. Its litered with flaws, unrealistic expectations and ultimately lacks a solid build with a lacklustre pay off.

    Flaws? What flaws? Look forward to hearing about these, feel I've addressed them all thus far. You call War Games a lacklustre payoff, I say that's silly. It's fresher than fresh. We've never seen it under the WWE banner. The build is literally over months and gives us a definitive pay off in a super structure that people will tune in to see. The War Games concept in itself is a draw, in addition to the warring factions.

    I like parts of your storyline but some parts really rub me up the wrong way. Using death/killing/coffin talk is a strict no go in this era. It's tasteless, it's crass. Not in a heel way but just crude. What if a talent passed away in the mean time while they're talking about things like that? Remember the Chris Benoit/Mr McMahon storyline death coincidence? Horrendous. Couldn't risk anything remotely similar. All the inside speak and jargon isn't gonna hold the attention of children and casual fans either in my opinion., they hold they key to 90% of te product. As I said, on message boards etc Kevin Owens is a massive hit and rightly so, but I do think you're possibly overrating his mass appeal. My summer long arc gives us a massive spectacle and would draw very well for a supposed B-ppv. Think along the lines of InVasion or ECW One Night Stand. It's an older idea with a new twist and history shows that will draw. Look at the numbers of those particular shoes. WarGames will be of the same ilk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Omackeral wrote: »

    It's a bit of a flakey reason for Vince's return to kick off your massive summer angle. He agrees they've been succesful but wants to stop them. It's all wishy washy.


    With the short term aim to get Vince back into power and give Hunter a reason to go for Vengence, the ends justifies the means here.

    .
    I think that's grand and so would most other IWC fans but I can't imagine they'd ever allow Cena to look that weak. They wouldn't even let Rollins beat him clean and he was WWE Champion. Needed outside help. Even at that they made him drop the strap back to Big Match John a month later.

    Thats the problem, WWE are afraid of making Cena "look weak".




    I thought Vince was pro-Authority in general and therefore anti-Cena? To be honest, all the indy talent scouting stuff is far to close to inside terms and they barely acknowledge ROH exists as it is. It's practically their biggest competition in the US. Great for all the fantasy bookers on Wrestlezone etc sure but in reality I don't see it, defo not if Vince is involved. Tripper touches on it in a miniscule fashion down at NXT but on the main show and with Vince himself, I don't see it.



    Again, more online speak. Not gonna happen. Not in Vince's lifetime. Vince has come to me to kick start this summer angle and Cena would not look week here. Owens however would look strong and a star can be born. WWE cant depend on Cena always and are in need of new stars. Cena can eventually return and go toe to toe with owens sometime down the road in a much bigger match than their first two, just because Owens would be a bigger star.

    Just because Vince doesnt see it as a good angle, doesnt means its not. Vince is out of touch and probably incapable of booking a hot angle himself in reality in this day and age. If I was pandering to Vince, I'd have Braun Strowman booked as a mega face to squash all comers. Imnot pandering to Vince though, Ive written an angle that could actually be a hot angle for the Summer of 2015.


    Vince is 70. He can't bump at all anymore. 10 years ago he tore both of his quads merely walking to the ring at Royal Rumble 2005. Sad, but true
    .

    Vince still works out and has been booked in plenty of matches and angles since 2005. In a safe pair of hands like Owens, on a padded area with Tables, Owens takes the most of the Bump anyway.

    After all Mae Young took the same kind of bump and she was even older. Vince does business and hes in shape. A bump like this would be fine for him.



    So basically we have a near murder happen on a PG show? Vince is gonna die is he? I'm sure the kids will love that, and the sponsors.

    Vince takes a big move, hes kayfabe injured. The kids would love it, I know I loved these angles as a child. I was loving Jake Roberts and Savage as a wee lad and Id imagine fans of all ages would lap it up.

    Its not murder, its a wrestling attack. It happened plenty of times down the years. Sure Vince blew himself up in 2008, when the show was already going down the PG route. This angle isnt half as bad as that, yet it would be a great way to build drama, excitement and suspense.

    The sponsors are funny folk, we dont know how they would react to be honest. The didnt react to Xavier Woods being put through a table did they in recent episodes? It would just be a bigger verison of that excpet.



    As the man that killed Vince McMahon?! Come on man, that will never fly. Jumping the shark here I'm afraid.

    Your clutching at strwas here, Im very happy to let the voters decide that. In my opinion its must see TV and a great way to esblish a true heel in a day and age when WWE are having trouble creating a new top stars.



    I like it... except the whole coffin thing. It's tasteless, but not in a good way. It's just crass. They type of thing that would make parents switch off for the sake of their children

    Hes a heel, a bad guy and eventually he has to do bad things to get that point over. It build him up as a prick and people will pay to see him get his eventual comeupance. i suppose you think Sasha making Izzy cry at Takeover was in bad taste too?

    Its a TV show with characters, Owens is a bad guy and little things like this ram that point home.



    Reads like a script from the writers of Eastenders. Where's the action? The same thing you called me out on you're actually guilty of. It's just moaning and moping and talking. Sounds like dreary TV.

    It build the story and builds the tension between Hunter and Owens. Keeping them apart will make people pay to see them tear each other apart on PPV. One thing WWE is guilty of is blowing through angles and fights too soon, this solves that problem.

    You simple had gaps with no action...story.... progression.... you just had voids of nothing in between matches.


    A ruse or a Russo? Because that's what this all sounds like, wheelchairs and swerves. Again, more of this ''kill him'' stuff that's not gonna be acceptable in this current climate.

    Oh please, its general story telling and building of a big angle with a dramtic twist at the end.

    Look at WWE programming. Its hard to watch even though the wrestling is still top notch. People need good storylines to get them invested and this storyline angle gets people intriged and interested.
    The biggest issue here is that you've wasted the main event of the biggest match of the year sans Mania on a swerve angle. There's literally no match and no physicality in the main event on the 2nd biggest event of the entire year. Not good enough, you might get away with it on a B-show, not Summerslam.

    Well Brock and Taker still happens and Seth V Roman happens earlier at Summerslam so its still a stacked card. Its a story driven angle and Vince wanted a big angle and he got it. I sacrifice one match on the card, to fuel the rest of the years stories and matches.

    Its not good enough for who? You?, lets be realistic here, people would tune in and still get a big pay off and a big card and people wont cancel? If they arent gonna cancel after Roman winning teh Rumble in Jan they they wont now.

    People may be slightly annoyed ast first at no HHH v Owens match, but will be satisfied at the storyline swerve and they will be interested in what follows and they will tune in.


    Some of your stuff is good but I think turning Rollins is missing a trick, he's a fantastic slime ball heel. I'd love to see him and Owens on the same page actually. Similarly, turning Steph is a big no no. She's the number 1 female baddie there is. She's believable in her role and sometimes I wonder if she's even acting.

    Rollins may be a perfect slime ball heel, but being a slime ball heel isnt main event material. Fans hate the way hes booked thus far and Owens would be far better option as the main event heel if allowed to. Rollins can work as a main event face much better than a main event slime ball heel.

    Regarding Steph, while she is a good heel, I personally am sick of her as an Authority Figure. She has go away heat at this stage and with Hunter in power alone Id write her out after Summerslam. Shes put herself over far too much and Id suggest she is gone after the Summerslam angle.







    Some of what you say here is true, as in the lack of direction and the character stagnation. That's why I feel this is the perfect candidate for an overhaul.

    You've not given him an overhaul though, you've just tried to position him higher up the card. People dont want him there. Maybe in 2014 when he was hot, but his brand and character is so damaged that while it may work to a degree, It would be no better than Seths slimeball heel run.

    Let's give him direction, let's flesh out his character. You seem to think he needs change, so do I.

    But wheres teh change, hes still teh same old Bray Wyatt. No change, still has go away heat!

    Just because he's stalled a bit, does that mean we write him, and his family off just like that? To be honest, that makes you part of the problem more so than him. This era of instant gratification is so annoying.

    Instant? Ive persoanlly given him a year to progress, from summer 2013 to Summer 2014.... then I gave up as he began to truly bore me. Hes stagnate so much that I dont care,I just roll my eyes.

    When Brays music or horror graphic appears I expect 2 things..... A long winded rambling go no where promo..... or an attack on someone that rarely happens for a real reason. Im just not entertained by him and its hard to get behind the character after 2 years of littleor no story/character progression. Hes the wrong man to push for a big succesful summer angle.

    What if we gave up on the Ringmaster or Rocky Maivia?

    Rocky changed dramticly in a year and was repackaged as a cool slick heel.

    Austin was repackaged within 6 months as an completely different character.

    Is Bray is repackaged? No

    Is Bray turning? I honestly dont see a clear turn.

    Has Bray changed at all? No.

    Hed still be the same guy he was in 2013.... And Im done with that guy as are most of the WWE universe.




    Stars can go grow and explode with a little tweaking. Austin and Rock did and became mega stars after being duds when they came in. Both went on to be major face-leening tweeners and full on anti-hero style babyfaces. I'm proposing that with Bray et al.

    Your living in a fantasy land of you think your angle achieves an Austin or Rock type run for Bray. Pure dillusion!




    I seem to remember everyone and their mother marking out for the Shield vs Wyatt Family scenario.

    It was over a year ago.... It would happen now. Poor WWE booking has killed any chance they had. The allure of Bray has passed the fans by kind sir.

    So maybe they've all lost their appeal? Nah, it's creative direction.

    They never really had a direction and they have suffered as a result to become the go away heat magnets/ p!ss break.

    Look at Dean, he lost something like 8 PPV matches in a row in 2014. Roman was rammed down our throats and rejected. Neither of those things have anything to do with Bray Wyatt.

    Being paired with Bray hurt Dean so much, the lack of a decent storyline for these two in their feuds did nothing to help either man and both suffered. I think the lack of any real direction for any one that feuds with Bray ultimatly hurts them.

    In fact, I'd say both were at their hottest when feuding with the Family.
    Back in jan/feb 2014.... arguably yes.

    In singles compitition ? Id say They were hottest before feuding with Bray and both men stalled as a result of a long boring feud with Mr Wyatt.

    Also, the Shield vs Wyatts feud showed that a faction based power struggle really can whet the appetites.


    Both factions were well established when they began feuding and both arguably two hot teams at the time.

    I find it hard for you to recreate the magic of The Wyatts in the summer of 2015 against a mix of superstars who dont regulary team together.

    The crowd were without doubt going nuts for that and there's no reason why they couldn't again.

    The Wyatts are reason enough for the crowd to groan and moan lose interest. You really over estimate the drawing power of Bray Wyatt in 2015.

    He doesnt get cheered anymore, fans rarely sing along with him anymore to my knowledge and if anything he makes fans tune out.

    Know your audience Omack!
    The lines were blurred in that it was two heel faction going head to head, with one side (The Shield) definitely leaning towards the face side. My scenario has a similar dynamic only this time it's the Family who will be shifting sides.

    That happened natutally, its very hard to do that as youve said it, esp with a damaged team popularity wise like Bray and his Family. I wouldnt buy it. I wouldnt get behind them like I got behind the Shield.

    One of the reasons The Shield were so popular was the in-ring talent was so good. The Wyatts have no one of Seth or Ambroses capabilities. Harper is good, but him aside Its a huge void.


    First things first, kayfabe-wise the Deadman is ageless.

    I still see him as an aging veteran. Maybe thats just me.

    It's there in the name sure. Losing to Undertaker at Wrestlemania, you're seriously gonna use that as a stick to beat someone with? My as well write off Jake Roberts, Randy Orton, Shawn Michaels (x2) and HHH (x3)!

    They didnt face Undertaker in 2015 when the Deadman is at his most fagile. After Brock almost killed him at WM30 and the match he and Bray put on at WM31, Taker looked a shell og himself and in kayfabe eyes, should be easy pickings for a man of Brays skills. Many speculated that Taker shouldnt be wrestling and he didnt look great and then by beating Wyatt, he killed a lot of Brays momentuem with that Loss.

    Bray looked weak in defeat and it hurt him bad. Fact


    If you remeber the segment correctly. Brock burst everyone. He was threatened with suspension if he didn't cease. He then F5'd the life out of the cameraman and was 'fired' by Steph. He then walked out of his own accord. He didn't vanish. Stephanie is in the ring giving out over the Mic stating her dominance and the lights go out. Again, it's easy, not complicated to follow.


    You didnt say Brock walked out though, re-read it. Its complicated if parts are missing.



    You want me to write every miniscule detail? Should I include verbatim promos and call play by play spots? You said the phrase 'some sort of filler'. Who wants to read fluffed out filler? I've included the major points of the angle here. I'm showing the most entertaining and relevant aspects of the programme, not what Luke Harper had for breakfast.

    I would just liek to know what happens in between some angles,like youve outlined below. It helps me get a better picture of what to expect and connect some of the dots about how you build up certain parts of the angle. If anything it helps your cause more so I and voters can understand tour plan better and judge it accordingly.


    Obviously you could have Harper and Rowan putting the tag division on notice and establish themselves as the Reapers. Have them absolutely obliterate Los Matadores, give them credit for putting the Usos on the shelf. Get themselves in the tag title hunt as I've set them up for later on. Bray continues with his crowd pleasing promos and gets over the Time Is On My Side tune like he did in NXT, the audience absolutely loved that. As it's kind of against the spirit to post more media in rebuttals, I'll implore people to remember the Wyatt Family's so-called Chapter Closing segment in NXT before they debuted. Goosebumps type of energy in the arena.

    First The audience ate that up in 2014, when was teh last time the fans ate up a Bray Wyatt promo? I cant remeber the last time one of his rambling speechs held my attention.

    The NXT fans arent a great comparison to the main roster audience anyway, two different kettles of fish.

    I would feel bored if Bray and his family progressed in such a manner and it would be a hot angle as a result.
    My story had a post match Rollins laugh on stage clutching his title belt and speaking into a microphone gloating only to be interrupted by the unmistakable screeching sound of the Wyatt Family. When the lights came on we saw Wyatt, Luke Harper and Erick Rowan outside surrounding the cage. The crowd were going nuts. Kane and Big Show prepared to meet them on either side of the cage they were climbing, when up through the dead centre of the canvas comes this massive man mountain Braun Strowman

    I got that part.... but what happens next? Did Braun attack, where did Randy go? Its not a big deal as I assume they just all ended up attacking kane and Show....

    But that in itself turns me off, a brawl between Kane and Show and other big lumbering guts..... no thank you. ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Its not crowd pleasing, its hard to watch TV.


    As stated in my previous paragraph, the crowd would be onside at this stage with the sing-a-long cult syle stuff that's going on. I was in London last year for Raw and Bray was extremely over. The cell phone lights, the taunts, the signature moves, all of it widely cheered. I think with more subtle pandering and audience participation., that would grow by the week.


    Theres no proof of that. Bray for all intents and purposes was still done the same shtick and its hasnt gotten him more over, its gotten stale.

    As for staleness? This reinvigerates everything and thus remedies your concern, in my opinion.

    I disagree Sir, what you have outlined just bring Wyatts character in a similar direction to where he is now.... Rammed down peoples throats and positioned at a high place in the card even though the majority of fans are sick of him doing teh same shtick week in ...week out!



    You're right, it does lack a proper ending. That's because it's setting up a bigger angle. That's the nature of the business these days.

    But its just more of the same from Wyatt..... Fand eventually need a pay off sometime..... Youve no bigger able in place.

    The visual of Strowman coming up through the canvas in the Black Sheep mask would be pretty fantastic and would generate excitement and intrigue in a show closing PPV moment, rather than midway through a generic Raw.

    Braun Strowmans appeal lasted one day in WWE. Hes a lumbering inexperienced guy who has no long lansting appeal. Your angles appeal would wear off pretty quickly.



    He's pandering, but subtly and with a slow build, the best way to do it.

    While Ive no problems with a slow build, one involving Bray Wyatt is not one I want to see. A slow build is perfect with the right characater. Bray is simply at a stage of making me tune out and his slow, pandering, rambling nonscene is enough to make me do something else or tune out all together. He certainly wouldnt make me buy a PPV in 2015.



    As you said, it's fresh and at least gives him a shot. I'm not planning on turning him into a world beater though. Like all the great stables, there's definitely a place in the crew to be filled
    .

    My problem is your crew is just not worth watching in 2015. Im done with The Wyatt Family and I think a change for all involved would do them good, esp Bray and Luke Harper.


    T
    It adds a little Bo Dallas has been summoned to be the Sacrificial Lamb. This is the role he will assume. We won't be challenging for the World Title anytime soon. He is pretty much what his name would indicate - he's the sacrificial one who the stable leader sends out to soften up the opponents. Frequently a lower midcarder who's a good worker that just doesn't have what it takes to advance into the upper echelon of wrestling. Therefore, being associated with the stable and having some of its heat rub off on him is his best bet. Think Heath Slater in Nexus.

    So you've added a jobber to the group..... Why would I or anyone care? It adds nothing significant to the group and for no real reason other than being realife brothers with Bray..... Whats the point?


    As for Mika. How do you know she's not 'camera ready'? Are you just assuming?
    Of course Im assuming, shes never been in front of a big live crowd so lets throw her to 10k plus crowds as a faction figure.... good luck with that one.
    She looks to have great chemistry with Bray and Bo on their Instagram. She could be the next Lana charisma wise for all you or I know.

    She could be the next Barbara Bush for all you know. Its a huge risk that most likely wouldnt pay off.


    Adding family adds legitimacy. Look at the Hart Foundation in 1997. Mika isn't specifically intended to be a major star from a scripting point of view by the way, she's there initially to put a personification to the Sister Abigail character and to give depth to the Wyatt Family.

    Please, thats like adding Diane Hart to the Hart Foundation in 97 so. You achieve nothing significant with this.


    As you said, they currently lack fleshing out and are stale and directionless.

    Them and teh majority of the roster. Id pick so many others to kick start main event careers than Bray and his boring lackeys.
    This adds more layers and gives a fresh and real element.

    You can label it fresh all you want, I label it uninteresting. It ultimatly does little for the group by in large.

    If she turns out to be unsuccesful, you don't need to use her much further. On the contrary, she could be fantastic in the role and we have yet another fantastic character based female rather than another cookie cutter Barbie
    .

    Have you seen NXT lately, Asuka, Bayley, Sasha Banks..... WWE has far better non cookie cutter females that have a better upside than the green inexperienced Mika Rotunda.


    Again, I don't know why you're confused. Bray, backed by his Fireflies, is waging war on the heel Authority. HHH is still solidly heel, that dynamic hasn't shifted, the Wyatt's have.

    But we have no real reason to see any chaacter changes to The Wyatts. Why would I or anyone be sympathic or encouged to cheer for them ? Ive no reason to get behind them with your story, except for them randomly "waging war" on Hunter and co. Its a bit short sighted.



    As you've said, blow offs aren't confined to specialty matches anymore.

    Yes,But Im against this and thinik it hurts the storyline progression in most cases.
    We have TLC, Hell in a Cell, Extreme Rules all just as PPV's in their own right. This would be new though, as far as WWE goes, with a nod to nostalgia also. A really unique situation fro any aspect of the business in 2015.

    Its just another Elimination Chamber/HITC type event, it wouldnt genrate anything to special unless it had a better set of comptitors and storline leading up to it. I wouldnt care for the match if Braun, Bray AND Rowan were involved.



    Kevin Owens debuted in May 2015. HHH hasn't returned til after that in my booking. He's recruiting. No reason Owens can't have the exact debut he had with Cena. This actually would put the Authority on notice and have him as a major prospective candidate. Also, around the time he debuted, Owens was in five separate feuds. FIVE! HE was at odds with Hideo Itami, Finn Balor, Samoa Joe, Alex Riley and John Cena. That's without considering his verbal assaults on Sami Zayn week in week out. KO is a multitasker if that's what you're worried about. If he can feud with 5 people as is what happened, he can go between Cena and this angles no problem. He's already shown that.

    Fair enough, not what Id do but then thats why we are debating :), He was already being asked alot of between NXT and his MR call up, I would think this would be far too much for him to take on, esp in a dangerous match enviroment




    If anything, he actually stands out from a lot of the roster in-ring. His arsenal is pretty varied and unique. Take for example his running body block. That looks devastating. A man his size with that agility is pretty great. He was formerly known as the Army Tank with the Ferrari Engine in his Nexus days. It was a fitting moniker. Some of his other moves like his brutal uranage and drop suplex are spectacular, as is his theatrical finisher. It's a shame you don't give him credit in between the ropes. I do and so do many others. He won the PWI Match of the Year Award in 2014 at Payback vs John Cena. Earlier that year, he was one of the only shining lights from the controversial Royal Rumble event in Pittsburgh. His match with Daniel Bryan was rated as highly as 9.5/10 in some publications. You'll say Bryan was the reason for that I'm sure but it takes two to tango. Additionally, he was one of the most popular combatants in the Rumble itself. Also worth mentioning that Bray Wyatt was voted the No.6 wrestler in their 500 in the same year.

    I just dont see it personally, Bray can work a solid match but his matches from mid - 2014 have bored teh life out of me no matter what the situlation. Hes gotten stale and you can quote all the 2014 facts you want, my eyes dont lie..... Bray has gotten stale since Cena and his matches have slowly done nothing for me since his last match with Cena. And I see no end to the trend.

    There's no face Seth. Not at all. I don't see why Wyatt vs a slimy heel is hard to imagine? Brock did it fairly handily didn't he? You adding 'not a hope' at the end doesn't add a thing to your argument nor does typing in all capital letters, which is akin to shouting online

    The Slimey heel doesnt work for me and Brock and Seth did the best the could but it didnt do much for me personally. Add boring go away Bray into the mix and its a recipe for losing viewers.

    I think I just need to get the point across that your argueing in vein. You choose teh dead duck in Bray Wyatt, a year past his sell by date. Hes not going to Draw as a main event face in my opinion




    Bray v Brock : Can work, as you've said, and would work.

    i disagree that it would work. id find it a waste of some of Brocks dates.
    I'd like to see it and so too would plenty online from what I can see. Brock vs Strowman could be something unreal looking visually.

    It would be a hard watch in reality mate, I wouldnt pay for it.
    Harper could go with him. He's murdered Dallas already as we've seen. Some good stuff could go on. Bray vs Heyman on the mic could be decent too.

    I wouldnt mind Heyman v Bray, mainly due to Heymans involvement. My interest wouldnt go much further sadly.




    I disagree. Bray is WAS already over with a good portion of the audience

    Fixed Your post


    Bray was over.... hes not hald as over as he was in 2014. It could change, but not with your build Im afraid. Its just positioning a stale charcte rhigher up the card, I dont want to see that. I belive you'd have to start Bray from scracth, start again in order to give him any chance to get over as a main event face/tweener.

    P and has appeal from a merchandise point of view
    .

    I dont doubt that, but not to the extent you imagine sadly.

    He's a great character based wrestler.

    He was in 2013..... How hes has been handled since his feud with Cena suggests that he is damaged too much to get over to that degree you wish.
    No reason he couldn't kick on like Jake the Snake did. Not saying he's on his level (who is) but there's appeal there.

    I like Windahm rotunda, hes a hard worker and a solid guy with tons of potential. Hes just been handled so bad since 2014 that I dont think your positioning of him will get him any more over than he is and certainly not to a level he was in 2014 january.
    To hark back to my earlier references, can you imagine The Ringmaster coming in and then headlining WrestleMania three years later? If they gave up on him back then, we'd never have gotten the Rattlesnake. Owens is great but it's too early just yet to make him the top star in WWE.

    In your scenario your essentailly giving us Bray Wyatt as he came in,except as a face.

    Its a kind to giving to strapping the rocket to The Ringmaster. Bray needs retooling and an overhaul, not to be placed higher up the card.

    I've covered this already. You're just banging the same drum over and over. You want to write off a talent saying it's too late for him. That's preposterous to be quite frank.
    I know, but Im not writing off Winham Rotunda, Im writing off Bray Wyatt!

    The Connecticut Blueblood Hunter Hearst Helmsely never becomes a 13 time World Champion. Took him a good few years to hit the top of the card. He wasn't particularly over when he came in. He's a non entity if you're in charge.

    I get that and I agree, but you are infact trting to push Bray in similar Fashion.

    Give Windham Rotunda a chance, have him change up his charcater..... Not push his stale one. You want to talk about Jumping The Shark earlier...... Bray jumped the shark and Windham Rotunda needs a change. Right now he needs a revamp, not a mega face push!

    Except he was. He main evented Wrestlemania 13 and won the title
    ,

    Only because Shawn lost his smile! He was a hot shotted to that position in light of Michaels "injury"






    Read the bolded bit. It's fresh for WWE. Don't be obtuse. There's an audience for it.

    the same audience who already tune in for TLC/Elimination Chamber/ HITC pay per views..... no new audience. Anyone that wants it already watched the product.





    As I said, it ticks both boxes which makes it novel. That's unique. It's what's known as a unique selling point, essential in any business. Disappointed with your posting style there tbh.

    It wouldnt be a fantastic difference to Hell in the Cell, it would just appeal to the same audience IMO.



    WWE acquired WCW's intellectual and physical assets in 2001. The cage is already built,

    How do you know they still have it? How do you know WWE picked taht cage up? How do you know taht it wasnt scrapped back then. Vince likes his original ideas, it be a hard sell to Vince.



    Strowman is an enforcer above all else, not everyone can be Dean Malenko.

    Hes not even Khali at this stage yet.... Hes too green man.




    I like parts of your storyline but some parts really rub me up the wrong way. Using death/killing/coffin talk is a strict no go in this era

    Please, its basical heel 101, something todays heels forget to do.


    What if a talent passed away in the mean time while they're talking about things like that? Remember the Chris Benoit/Mr McMahon storyline death coincidence?

    Mentions of death would be quietly removed. The angle would play out as palnned.

    The Benoit case doesnt happen every year.

    All the inside speak and jargon isn't gonna hold the attention of children and casual fans either in my opinion.

    It worked for CM Punk, didnt it! He got super over

    As I said, on message boards etc Kevin Owens is a massive hit and rightly so
    ,

    One thing Bray isnt sadly. When Bray debuted, there was a buzz about him, but while it did last for a while, without the character progression or any real storyline developments in any of his feuds, Bray began to suffer as a character.

    Tackling Brays character is a year too late, if your proposed angle had started after the Cena feud, with a few tweeks it could be a hot summer angle. Sadly Bray has declined in the year that followed and his character and persona have suffered to the point were he has gained XPac levels of go away heat.
    but I do think you're possibly overrating his mass appeal
    .

    I suggest your doing the same with Bray.

    My summer long arc gives us a massive angle and would in my opinion draw very well with fresh new star born. Your angle just throws a stale Bray Wyatt charcater into the main event scene and i think in his current form he would bomb.

    While I like the worker who plays Bray Wyatt, a man who is great creatively and not too bad in the ring, I feel the character of Bray Wyatt and his have been damaged beyond repair and wouldnt achieve the success needed to pull off a hot summer angle. I feel the angle has some great points to it, but sadly the addition of the stagnate Bray character would be the wrong fit at this stage of his characters lifespan.

    The addition of War Games, while not really bad, but it would fail to capture a new audience that isn't already catered for (via Hell in the Cell etc) needed for a big hot summer angle and I feel it could be used in better circumstances.

    The addition of Mika and Bo add little to the storyline and in the long term the characters wouldn't be used to a great degree after their initial reveal which would be a let down in hinsight.

    The positioning of Bray into such a high end angle is not what is needed to pull off a big summer angle. I feel Bray would be better used if he was to under go a complete revamp and change of direction.

    My idea simply elevates a star who the WWE universe would happily accept as the next top heel star and judging by the reaction of his initial Cena win, if this was to be capitalised upon, he could easily be a big deal in WWE. and my angle would not only place him there, but his own talents would keep him there if he was booked correctly afterwards.

    KEVIN OWENS AS A STAR IN SUMMER OF 2015 IS POSSIBLE......... Bray Wyatt as the next top face is sadly a big reach that isn't possible in his current form considering how badly hes been booked before hand as a character.

    Good luck Omack and may the best man win.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    In my final post I'm just gonna counter your own defenses and then make a summary at the end. Here goes...

    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    Vince does business and hes in shape. A bump like this would be fine for him. Vince still works out and has been booked in plenty of matches and angles since 2005.

    Vince McMahon is in shape when compared to other 70 year olds, I'll give you that. He's not in condition for any bumping at all. He looks a lot frailer than we're used to seeing him. He hasn't done anything in-ring in over 5 years.

    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    Its not murder, its a wrestling attack. It happened plenty of times down the years. Sure Vince blew himself up in 2008, when the show was already going down the PG route.

    They were caught out majorly when they tried the whole 'death' storyline and it coincided with the Chris Benoit massacre. They'd be nuts to even go near that type of scenario again. Anyone can be caught out once, can't see them tempting fate again there, especially given wrestler's high mortality rate before they've grown old.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    He's a heel, a bad guy and eventually he has to do bad things to get that point over. It build him up as a prick and people will pay to see him get his eventual comeuppance. i suppose you think Sasha making Izzy cry at Takeover was in bad taste too?

    It's the type of thing that gets the PTC involved to be honest and that's when sponsors and such get turned off. In an era where that's more important than ever, you just cant even reference murder/coffins etc anymore. As far as getting comeuppance goes, that's what a stage like Summerslam's main event should be for. And taking some kids hairband is hardly in the same league as threatening to kill a 70 year old man, so you've supposed wrong on that Sasha/Izzy angle I'm afraid.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    It build the story and builds the tension between Hunter and Owens. Keeping them apart will make people pay to see them tear each other apart on PPV. One thing WWE is guilty of is blowing through angles and fights too soon, this solves that problem.

    Except it doesn't. The people pay for the fight....and then they don't get the fight they paid for.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    Regarding Steph, while she is a good heel, I personally am sick of her as an Authority Figure. She has go away heat at this stage and with Hunter in power alone Id write her out after Summerslam. She's put herself over far too much and Id suggest she is gone after the Summerslam angle.

    You say you're personally sick of her, that's fine. I think she's the best female heel going. Hateable in the right way, nonsense to call it go away heat. I remember the crowd being heavily invested in her programme with Brie Bella last year to the point where they were promoted as the semi main event. Also, the crowd were dying to see her get mauled by Ronda Rousey at WrestleMania 31. If there was a roof on the building, it would've come off.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    You've not given him an overhaul though, you've just tried to position him higher up the card. But where's the change, he's still the same old Bray Wyatt. No change, still has go away heat!


    Incorrect. I've had him assimilate an army to go against the Machine for the first time. He's also gotten the fans on his side this time. That's before his real life family get involved even. There you go again with this so called go away heat. Just because you don't like a talent? Ridiculous.

    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    Those stars you mentioned didnt face Undertaker in 2015 when the Deadman is at his most fagile. After Brock almost killed him at WM30 and the match he and Bray put on at WM31, Taker looked a shell og himself and in kayfabe eyes, should be easy pickings for a man of Brays skills. Many speculated that Taker shouldnt be wrestling and he didnt look great and then by beating Wyatt, he killed a lot of Brays momentuem with that Loss.

    Bray looked weak in defeat and it hurt him bad. Fact

    Unless your name is Tyson Kidd, saying 'fact' after something doesn't make it a fact. The Undertaker has fought 23 times at Wrestlemania. He's Won 22 and Lost 1. A loss to him means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. Michaels, Flair, HHH, some of the very very best of all time have lost to him and it didn't hurt their standings in the eyes of the fans.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    So you've added a jobber to the group..... Why would I or anyone care? It adds nothing significant to the group and for no real reason other than being realife brothers with Bray..... Whats the point?

    Literally explained that in the preceding paragraph you quoted. It gives Dallas a new angle. He's been floundering. He takes the pastings and keeps the others strong. It could end up turning him into a mega sympathetic underdog like Spike Dudley was with his family. They even have the same finishing move! Mainly though, people seem to care quite a deal, online I've seen loads of people dying to see both the Rotundo boys interact on screen. I'd love to see it too.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    She (Mika) could be the next Barbara Bush for all you know. Its a huge risk that most likely wouldnt pay off.

    If she is, then so what? She's in for a one or two shot initially as a personification of Sister Abigail. I've explicitly stated that. If it works, it works and you get a new female star and work her into more programming. If not, then don't write for her anymore. It's all upside. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. There's virtually no risk here.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    Have you seen NXT lately, Asuka, Bayley, Sasha Banks..... WWE has far better non cookie cutter females that have a better upside than Mika

    Irrelevant. Those women are established wrestlers. I never said Mika was. I compared her role to that of Lana's. Don't know why you chose to mention those ladies. They'll debut in their own time. Sasha already has.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    I disagree that Brock vs Bray would work. I'd find it a waste of some of Brocks dates.

    Brock's dates? Ah come on, we're booking storylines here not discussing contractual obligations. That's clutching at straws. Besides, it's an ultra fresh match up, always a major selling point.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    Bray needs retooling and an overhaul, not to be placed higher up the card.

    I've given him the best of both in my arc.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    It's (War Games) just another Elimination Chamber/HITC type event, it wouldnt generate anything special.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    It wouldnt be a fantastic difference to Hell in the Cell, it would just appeal to the same audience IMO
    .

    Of everything you've wrote against my points, I have the biggest problem with this. War Games would generate tonnes of interest. It would get old school NWA/WCW fans to tune in. I'd tune in. Most of PW Boards would tune in. Joe, you'd tune in yourself and you know it.
    Originally Posted by beakerjoe
    How do you know they still have it? How do you know WWE picked that cage up? How do you know that it wasnt scrapped back then. Vince likes his original ideas, it be a hard sell to Vince.

    They acquried rights and physical properties. Vince likes his own ideas sure but consider ECW One Night Stand. Critical and commercial success. Add the Dusty Rhodes connection and I see it getting greenlighted more easily than the bingo hall sideshow freaks.




    Kevin Owens is a great talent. I'm not gonna sit here and deny that. He really is good at what he does. However, right now he's just not seasoned enough in WWE. I know he's travelled all around North America on the indies doing his thing but so his Fergal Devitt. In fact, Devitt is World travelled and yet to even feature on the main roster. Owens is still a newbie at present in Vince land. He's not quite ready for the upper echelon just yet. I would give him another year before bouncing him up, then maybe he could be on the level you describe in your storyline. Again, it's a storyline I think littered with too much non PG-talk, online jargon and words in general. It's mostly chat and not many matches. There's also too much of a reliance on 70 year old Vince McMahon. He's not Mr McMahon anymore, he's a grandfather of six. The Owens storyline could work on a smaller level opposite a Teddy Long-type maybe but, for now, it's not top dollar material. Not just yet.

    You attempted to run Bray Wyatt and his family down as irrelevant in 2015. I Vehemotley disagree with that. While they needed change this year (and are currently getting it) they were last on the card at Hell in a Cell this weekend and look stronger than ever. The army aspeact of it is playing out as we speak. Wyatt himself had the match of the night opposite Reigns and was involved in the show-closing angle along side possibly the greatest attraction of all time in the Undertaker. WWE obviously see something in him and so do I.

    I feel WarGames would be an awesome payoff to a summer-long angle and would draw insanely well against your standard Hell in a Cell PPV that we've just become accostumed to. I firmly and honestly feel people would tune in to check it out. I hope those reading this feel the same way.





    Thanks Joe, good battling against you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll added, get yer votes in peeps!


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll bump!


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll bump


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll bump ,


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll bump


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Final poll Bump,..... times almost up peeps


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