Need advice. CEO verbally slandered colleague publically

susan2k15

Hi Guys,

Just want some advice.

I was at a company meeting and our CEO began our morning by dicussing how two people had recently left the company.

He said that one former colleague was let go because he basically wasn't good at his job. His exact words were that he was hired (as an operations manager) to make a business plan and 6 months later we got no business plan so we realised it was working out (this is actually untrue as the colleague had recently submitted a business plan proposal and got us a large sum of funding)

Our CEO then proceeded to state why him and the assistant manager had not made a big deal of the other employee leaving as it was on bad terms given that the employee had tried to EXTORT the company by first trying to ask for a redunacy sum to leave the company amibically (he was there for 6 years) and some other various stuff.

Needless to say, I was offended by the lack of unprofessionalism shown by senior management. I was wondering if others would agree or have any feedback?

Later that day, during a brainstorming session, we were asked how we could improve the workplace automspehere.

I stated that I thought it was unprofessional to say what they had said about former colleagues and that it was unnecessary especially given that neither colleague had spoken badly of higher management.

The manager now wants to speak to me Monday and is likely to state that I shoudn't have said what I did or some nonsense.

Should I stick to my ground or what? I think what they did might have legal implications but I am not sure .

Appreciate any thoughts,

thanks,

Susan.

A company meeting is not public.

Do you know this other former employee did not try get a redundancy sum from the company?

I really don't know why you have involved yourself in this situation. There is nothing for you to gain here at all.

davo10

What has his got to do with you and what did you hope to gain by saying what you did? They are gone and you still work there, you might as well have put a big target in your back, what chance now for promotion or wage increase?

Canadel

Gianna Tall Sunblock wrote: »

A company meeting is not public.

Do you know this other former employee did not try get a redundancy sum from the company?

I really don't know why you have involved yourself in this situation. There is nothing for you to gain here at all.

It is correct that it's not slander as the meeting was private.

However, you're entitled to voice your concerns about workplace atmosphere, especially when asked to so, and if they're professional and decent at all, they'll value your honesty and attempt to provide constructive criticism. I wouldn't hold my breath though as they've already shown what they're like by criticising (and potentially lying about) people who are not present.

Canadel

davo10 wrote: »

What has his got to do with you and what did you hope to gain by saying what you did? They are gone and you still work there, you might as well have put a big target in your back, what chance now for promotion or wage increase?

Did you read the post at all?

Later that day, during a brainstorming session, we were asked how we could improve the workplace automspehere.

Not everything has to be for personal gain either. Sometimes saying the right thing can be difficult and detrimental to one's own success, but it's still right to say it. Obviously the Op felt this was such an occasion.

davo10

Canadel wrote: »

Did you read the post at all?


Not everything has to be for personal gain either. Sometimes saying the right thing can be difficult and detrimental to one's own success, but it's still right to say it. Obviously the Op felt this was such an occasion.

Dear God are you for real? What possible career benefit can the op gain from this unless he/she is planning to leave and wants to make a "statement" before they walk out the door? The CEO might be telling the truth or telling fibs but either way it has nothing to do with the op.

Canadel

davo10 wrote: »

Dear God are you for real? What possible career benefit can the op gain from this unless he/she is planning to leave and wants to make a "statement" before they walk out the door? The CEO might be telling the truth or telling fibs but either way it has nothing to do with the op.

Dear God you still don't get it. The op isn't necessarily looking for a career benefit, they are merely offering constructive criticism, after being asked to do so by their boss! So it does have something to do with the op, and I also get the impression that they may have had a good working relationship and respect for the former colleague(s).

bucketybuck

Canadel wrote: »

Dear God you still don't get it.

Of course we get it. We just think it was incredibly naive.

Canadel

bucketybuck wrote: »

Of course we get it. We just think it was incredibly naive.

I don't think you do. It's only incredibly naive if the op's aim in work is to kiss the ass of their boss and keep their mouth shut unless they have something positive to say about their boss or the business. That may be the way to succeed for many, but for others who value their own integrity and that of others, it's not worth the sacrifice. Basically, whether it was naive or not depends entirely on your own perspective.

davo10

Canadel wrote: »

I don't think you do. It's only incredibly naive if the op's aim in work is to kiss the ass of their boss and keep their mouth shut unless they have something positive to say about their boss or the business. That may be the way to succeed for many, but for others who value their own integrity and that of others, it's not worth the sacrifice. Basically, whether it was naive or not depends entirely on your own perspective.

To be fair, a lot of people strive for career advancement and often crib when they feel they get passed over. To torpedo any hope of advancement for no real benefit like in such a situation as this seems self defeating. But hey if it makes the op feel better, why stop there? Perhaps the op would enlighten us as to whether he/she had ambition to advance in this company, or if s/he is content to stay at the present job/pay grade.

_Brian

You seem to have played this poorly. It's one thing having an opinion against managment but when you start critisizing the CEO you can expect it will come back to your door.
You'll get labeled as a disgruntled troublemaker if you continue with this behaviour.

bucketybuck

Canadel wrote: »

It's only incredibly naive if the op's aim in work is to kiss the ass of their boss and keep their mouth shut unless they have something positive to say about their boss or the business. That may be the way to succeed for many, but for others who value their own integrity and that of others, it's not worth the sacrifice. Basically, whether it was naive or not depends entirely on your own perspective.

Sure, its a nice thought, fight the power and all that.

But in the real world criticising your boss in front of other staff isn't some noble gesture, its just bloody foolish, especially when its because of a situation that had absolutely nothing to do with you and was in defence of people who had already left the company. When it comes to picking your battles that was absolutely the wrong one to pick.

By the way, keeping your nose out of your bosses business isn't kissing their ass, its just being professional.

I understand that the OP felt the situation was poor for morale, and so when asked about improving morale felt it was something to mention. On the face of it he/she would be correct, but again in the real world it probably was a very foolish thing to do.

Canadel

Canadel wrote: »

I don't think you do. It's only incredibly naive if the op's aim in work is to kiss the ass of their boss and keep their mouth shut unless they have something positive to say about their boss or the business. That may be the way to succeed for many, but for others who value their own integrity and that of others, it's not worth the sacrifice. Basically, whether it was naive or not depends entirely on your own perspective.

Yeah there's no possible middle ground between kissing your bosses ass and accusing him of defamation.

This isn't a question of integrity. This is interjecting yourself into a situation that is absolutely nothing to do with you. That is naive at the very best.

Martin567

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sure, its a nice thought, fight the power and all that.

But in the real world criticising your boss in front of other staff isn't some noble gesture, its just bloody foolish, especially when its because of a situation that had absolutely nothing to do with you and was in defence of people who had already left the company. When it comes to picking your battles that was absolutely the wrong one to pick.

By the way, keeping your nose out of your bosses business isn't kissing their ass, its just being professional.

I understand that the OP felt the situation was poor for morale, and so when asked about improving morale felt it was something to mention. On the face of it he/she would be correct, but again in the real world it probably was a very foolish thing to do.

Surely the CEO should be leading by example in terms of such professionalism? Criticising current or former staff members, behind their backs, to their colleagues seems highly unprofessional to me. I could understand anyone doubting whether they want to work in an environment where such comments are considered acceptable.

It often seems to me on these threads that there are a handful of posters who will defend the employer/CEO conduct irrespective of what they've done.

Only the OP knows the full facts here so I can't properly recommend the best course of action. I would advise against causing yourself too much stress and anxiety over something that doesn't directly involve you. Life and work can be difficult enough without imposing additional stress on yourself.

On the other hand, there are times when something is just the right thing to do. I detest the attitude that nobody should ever do anything unless there is some personal benefit in it for them.

Divisadero

Martin567 wrote: »

I would advise against causing yourself too much stress and anxiety over something that doesn't directly involve you. Life and work can be difficult enough without imposing additional stress on yourself.

On the other hand I detest the attitude that nobody should ever do anything unless there is some personal benefit in it for them.

Very well said on both points.

Martin567

Martin567 wrote: »

Surely the CEO should be leading by example in terms of such professionalism? Criticising current or former staff members, behind their backs, to their colleagues seems highly unprofessional to me. I could understand anyone doubting whether they want to work in an environment where such comments are considered acceptable.

It often seems to me on these threads that there are a handful of posters who will defend the employer/CEO conduct irrespective of what they've done.

Only the OP knows the full facts here so I can't properly recommend the best course of action. I would advise against causing yourself too much stress and anxiety over something that doesn't directly involve you. Life and work can be difficult enough without imposing additional stress on yourself.

On the other hand, there are times when something is just the right thing to do. I detest the attitude that nobody should ever do anything unless there is some personal benefit in it for them.

The CEO could be a complete arse, I don't actually think anyone has defended anything, the OP still shouldn't be getting involved. Saying that is not the same as defending the CEO.

And yeah that's also what was said, nobody should do ANYTHING ever unless it's for personal gain. That's what this thread it all about.

daheff

susan2k15 wrote: »

Later that day, during a brainstorming session, we were asked how we could improve the workplace automspehere.

I stated that I thought it was unprofessional to say what they had said about former colleagues and that it was unnecessary especially given that neither colleague had spoken badly of higher management.

The manager now wants to speak to me Monday and is likely to state that I shoudn't have said what I did or some nonsense.

Should I stick to my ground or what? I think what they did might have legal implications but I am not sure .

Appreciate any thoughts,

thanks,

Susan.

If I were you I'd try to twist your own words to try to make it that you meant the CEO shouldnt have said what he did as telling people about what happened was damaging to the atmosphere...not that the CEO was unprofessional....but it really depends on what exactly you said on how well you can change tack.

If you specifically said the CEO was unprofessional then you'd better have a good argument ready. I'd expect your manager to drop HR into the meeting and try to give you a warning or something.


Either way get your cv ready and start looking for a new job. Doesnt sound like a great company...with leaders like that its no surprise theres a bad atmosphere.

Martin567

Gianna Tall Sunblock wrote: »

And yeah that's also what was said, nobody should do ANYTHING ever unless it's for personal gain. That's what this thread it all about.

Is this what most people truly believe?

Am I alone in finding that quite shocking?

bucketybuck

Martin567 wrote: »

Surely the CEO should be leading by example in terms of such professionalism? Criticising current or former staff members, behind their backs, to their colleagues seems highly unprofessional to me. I could understand anyone doubting whether they want to work in an environment where such comments are considered acceptable.

So what? Of course the CEO should be professional and should lead by example, but its certainly not his/her subordinates place to take them to task when they aren't.

Consider if you want to work there all you want, but its still a bad idea to criticise your boss in public.

It often seems to me on these threads that there are a handful of posters who will defend the employer/CEO conduct irrespective of what they've done.

Not sure what this has to do with anything.

On the other hand, there are times when something is just the right thing to do. I detest the attitude that nobody should ever do anything unless there is some personal benefit in it for them.

You and others seem to think this was some issue about fighting the good fight, or facing up to some banal evil. In reality the CEO was rude about some ex-employees, so what, is this really the hill the OP wants to die on? They aren't standing up for what is right here, they are just making a rod for their own back when really there was no need.

bucketybuck

Martin567 wrote: »

Is this what most people truly believe?

Of course it bloody well isn't. :rolleyes:

Martin567

Martin567 wrote: »

Is this what most people truly believe?

Am I alone in finding that quite shocking?

Your sarcasm detector is broken.

Honestly I'm not going to explain, it should be obvious.

blindsider

Interesting issue.

My thoughts:

Slander has been replaced by defamation in Irish law - worth checking this with a solr - I'm not one and I'm not offering legal advice.

Defamation COULD have taken place as described by the OP - it doesn't need to be 'public' - enough people were present IMO.

OP - I would check your org's HR Handbook and code of conduct therein. It may well have a section on professional standards etc. If yours is a public or semi-state org, then this exists somewhere, even if it hasn't been circulated.

Apart from all that, I would be trying to make this go away - for your own sake. It seems to me that you are unlikely to win long-term unless you back down now.

People may well have behaved unprofessionally, and you need to be careful how you react to this.

I don't have all the answers by any means, but I would ask you this question:

"Is this the issue that you want to be career-defining for you in the organisation?"

If it isn't back down quietly. If it is, get legal advice.

BOL!

FishOnABike

I wouldn't be happy to work for a company that treated its employees or ex-employees like that. If I hadn't another position lined up already I'd be trying hard to find one as soon as I could.

What they said about former employees and their attitude towards what is a statutory right to redundancy wouldn't fill me with confidence regarding their ethics or employee policies. It doesn't sound like a place I'd want to work.

At the same time I don't think it's the best strategy to openly tell senior management you effectively think they are a bunch of f*ckwits (even if they are) in front of everybody. Even if you already planned leaving for another company Ireland is a small country and you never know when your paths might cross again. Never burn any bridges.

Whether what was said about the former operations manage and assistant manager would be considered defamatory and worth doing anything about is something that would need legal advice. AFAIK something doesn't have to be shouted from the rooftops to be legally considered defamation, false, damaging statements made in an employee meeting might be enough.

In any case it would be up the former operations manager and assistant manager to take action about it if they want to. I would have informed them what had been said about them and left it up to them to decide if they wanted to take any action about it.

GardeningGirl

Never mind all the spineless ones commenting not to say anything. Half the trouble in the world is a silent audience. Stick to your morals I say. I've had a similar experience with a bullying boss causing other employees to cry, young girls included. It's not right. Good on you for saying so.

Martin567

Gianna Tall Sunblock wrote: »

Your sarcasm detector is broken.

Honestly I'm not going to explain, it should be obvious.

It must be broken so because I really don't know what point you're trying to make in your earlier post!

bucketybuck

GardeningGirl wrote: »

I've had a similar experience with a bullying boss causing other employees to cry, young girls included. It's not right. Good on you for saying so.

How is this relevant? A bullying boss is not the same as a boss bad mouthing an ex-employee. If the CEO were actively bullying the staff that would be a different matter but this is not the case portrayed in the OP.

Your experience isn't similar and not really relevant.

um7y1h83ge06nx

GardeningGirl wrote: »

Never mind all the spineless ones commenting not to say anything. Half the trouble in the world is a silent audience. Stick to your morals I say. I've had a similar experience with a bullying boss causing other employees to cry, young girls included. It's not right. Good on you for saying so.

What did you do that situation?

It's easy for us here to tell the OP to fight the good fight, we're not putting our jobs at risk.

My opinion is that the boss does appear unprofessional but as others have said will it really do much to fight this? Do you stand more to lose than gain?

I wouldn't have much respect for the company though. If they act like this who says you won't be on the receiving end at some stage. Those antics would make me want to update my CV being honest.

seamus

Canadel wrote: »

It is correct that it's not slander as the meeting was private.

As mentioned above, there is no slander in Irish law anymore, it's defamation. And it most certainly does apply in this case. A statement doesn't have to be public to be defamation, someone just has to hear/read it.

OP, there are a number of issues here. Let's leave defamation out of it for the moment, as making accusations of defamation won't get you anywhere.

First off, if you're called into a meeting, you simply say that you were asked for feedback and you gave honest feedback. That's your defence. Don't try and argue it or allow yourself to be dragged into an argument about it. You said it because you were asked for your opinion, simple as. If they didn't want feedback, they shouldn't have asked for it. That's your assertion - you did nothing wrong, they did.

Secondly, is there any whistleblower arrangement in your workplace. Rare in smaller places, but sometimes you get lucky. Salary and contractual arrangements between employees and employers, including redundancy negotiations, reasons for being sacked, etc etc, are private information between the employee and privileged individuals in the organisation. Detailing it at a meeting is not only highly unprofessional but also most likely a breach of data protection laws. If you have a way to blow the whistle, you can blow it.

Apart from that, and from an outsider's point of view, what I see is this:

The company has lost a valuable employee who was looking for redundancy (and therefore was going to leave anyway) and sacked another apparently valuable employee within their probationary period. And then come to you guys looking to find out what it is about the company that you dislike at present.

Either the company is on the ropes and redundancies are incoming, or someone is paranoid about staff being poached or otherwise acting against the company and will start "suggesting" that people who are unhappy might be better off somewhere else.

But most likely I'd suggest that the company might be in financial trouble, and is trying to play down the staff departures as simple disagreements just in case either of the two leavers are talking to any current staff.

I'd say fair play to you, OP.

I did similar before in a job (and nothing really ever came of it, but then I tend to be brutally honest with people a lot of the time. Sometimes to my own detriment).

I say, good man yourself. If they're saying this about ex employees that have left, they'll just as quickly say it about you or your workmates once any of ye become ex employees. I'd have no time for anyone who'd talk about people behind their backs like that to their former colleagues.


I'd follow Seamus' advice above, and have a big smile on your face.

hmmm

When a boss says "I value your honest feedback", he doesn't mean it's open season on him and please go ahead and call him a moron. When companies say "We value your call, please hold", they don't mean it. When companies say "your opinion matters", they really don't mean it either. If this has to be explained to you then the real world will continue to come as an awful shock.

susan2k15

seamus wrote: »

As mentioned above, there is no slander in Irish law anymore, it's defamation. And it most certainly does apply in this case. A statement doesn't have to be public to be defamation, someone just has to hear/read it.

OP, there are a number of issues here. Let's leave defamation out of it for the moment, as making accusations of defamation won't get you anywhere.

First off, if you're called into a meeting, you simply say that you were asked for feedback and you gave honest feedback. That's your defence. Don't try and argue it or allow yourself to be dragged into an argument about it. You said it because you were asked for your opinion, simple as. If they didn't want feedback, they shouldn't have asked for it. That's your assertion - you did nothing wrong, they did.

Secondly, is there any whistleblower arrangement in your workplace. Rare in smaller places, but sometimes you get lucky. Salary and contractual arrangements between employees and employers, including redundancy negotiations, reasons for being sacked, etc etc, are private information between the employee and privileged individuals in the organisation. Detailing it at a meeting is not only highly unprofessional but also most likely a breach of data protection laws. If you have a way to blow the whistle, you can blow it.

Apart from that, and from an outsider's point of view, what I see is this:

The company has lost a valuable employee who was looking for redundancy (and therefore was going to leave anyway) and sacked another apparently valuable employee within their probationary period. And then come to you guys looking to find out what it is about the company that you dislike at present.

Either the company is on the ropes and redundancies are incoming, or someone is paranoid about staff being poached or otherwise acting against the company and will start "suggesting" that people who are unhappy might be better off somewhere else.

But most likely I'd suggest that the company might be in financial trouble, and is trying to play down the staff departures as simple disagreements just in case either of the two leavers are talking to any current staff.

Hi,

Thank for your feedback. I decided to speak to them and stick my ground. I've seen a lot of bad stuff happen and could stand by it this time (like being told someones getting fired before anyone else!).

Things were tense for a while. Manager tried to play games and I called him out on it. I no longer report to this manager, got promoted to be manager of my team and a payrise - so it worked out better than expected!

Thanks again!

susan2k15

davo10 wrote: »

What has his got to do with you and what did you hope to gain by saying what you did? They are gone and you still work there, you might as well have put a big target in your back, what chance now for promotion or wage increase?

Hi,

Thanks for your feedback. I decided to speak to them and stick my ground.

It was said directly to me and others, and its a matter of principle to be honest, not withstanding the fact that we had a staff turnover of 25% last year.

I've seen a lot of bad stuff happen and could not stand by it this time (like being told someones getting fired before anyone else!).

Things were tense for a while. Manager tried to play games and I called him out on it. I no longer report to this manager, got promoted to be manager of my team and a payrise - so it worked out better than expected!