Belgian Blue Bull on Charolais cows

The Cuban · 17-10-2015 7:58am #1

Thinking of buying a BB Bull to use on Charolais and Charolais X cows. Anyone else doing this?
What are the calves like? I`d be worried that I could end up with small calves off some of my cows.
What color bull works best is it the black Frisian colored ones or the all white ones ?
Also are the Weanlens still selling as good?
Theirs a sale on in Roscrea next Saturday, whats the average price for a Bull there?

greysides · 17-10-2015 12:26pm

I knew a man who did that with the end of getting show stock. So he wasn't holding back on the genetics.

Lots of caesarians were the the end result.

So, how good are you at predicting and aiding calving?
Have you a top notch calving jack, gate and set up?
Have you good lighting and electricity sockets handy?
Good help available 24 hours?
Are you good at nursing downer cows?
Are you good at fostering on calves?
Vet fairly local?

My opinion should be fairly clear.

Best of.

Mad4simmental · 17-10-2015 12:38pm

+1 try a few useing AI first.
I was at that show & sale last year and I'd say 20% of the bulls listed on the catalog actually turned up.

They made from €3K to €6K and looked like stuffed, pampered, soft, useless bulls that wouldn't bull feck all and if they did they wouldn't last for to long. I wouldn't buy a bb bull.

How about a really nice limo or part?

The Cuban · 17-10-2015 3:47pm

Disappointing to here that lads. How come the dairy lads can use the BBs. Surely them narrow cows couldn't possibly calf a BB?

The man in red and black · 17-10-2015 4:04pm

The Cuban wrote: »

Disappointing to here that lads. How come the dairy lads can use the BBs. Surely them narrow cows couldn't possibly calf a BB?

Because the calves have 50% HO genetics so aren't as big likely. BB X CH would give serious sized calves as noted above.

White Clover · 17-10-2015 4:22pm

The man in red and black wrote: »

Because the calves have 50% HO genetics so aren't as big likely. BB X CH would give serious sized calves as noted above.

You have bone and muscle there. Very hard get calves with that combination out. Hard enough with one of them traits. Although I would say blues are easier calved than some charolais, muscle will 'give' but bone wont

Edit: reply should be to The Cuban's last post.

welton john · 17-10-2015 4:26pm

Would you think of a part bull?.used them on some chx cows this year and happy with them. Plus you'll have part cows to breed after if you wanted to use blue on

patsy_mccabe · 17-10-2015 4:35pm

I have being using BB AI bulls on and off over the years. I haver never had to pull any of them. All to LIM cows, mind you. I'd be slow to buy a BB bull myself. Delicate animals enough without all the over-feeding. Get a teaser bull, chin harness and mix it up with the bulls. Try a few BB the first year and take if from there.

Milked out · 17-10-2015 4:56pm

The Cuban wrote: »

Disappointing to here that lads. How come the dairy lads can use the BBs. Surely them narrow cows couldn't possibly calf a BB?

Only use proven beef ai on dairy herd with the key being the short gestation bulls. Used dbz and atg here with no issues on past. Ai company tried selling test beef sires but I and most dairy I assume wouldn't even consider it.

bogman_bass · 17-10-2015 5:39pm

AI is the only way to go with blues. I would never use one for natural service. Poor feet, too short and too heavy at the back so when they mout a tall cow they can fall back and hurt themselves.

Miname · 17-10-2015 7:00pm

On Charolais cows a real thick muscular limo bull is the best option. You'll have a calf that can be sold to anyone.

ellewood · 17-10-2015 7:19pm

Miname wrote: »

On Charolais cows a real thick muscular limo bull is the best option. You'll have a calf that can be sold to anyone.

How about thinking outside the box here !! What about a - wait for it - a good 5 stat m+t charolais bull and u have good heavy weanlings and replacements if ya want too - oh and if ya want to finish that's not a bother oh and 1 more thing they will probobly be quite and easy to handle as well - now I know it's a long shot but it just mite workðŸ˜

Grueller · 17-10-2015 7:21pm

Lot of outdated rubbish being spoken here. Blues were all of that twenty years ago but not now. If you are going to sell weanlings they are the only game in town. They will cross very well with ch, pt, lm or ba.
We have never had difficulty with blues calving and have them here year on year for the last 15-20. The only bull ever gave us trouble was a charolais.

Miname · 17-10-2015 7:25pm

ellewood wrote: »

How about thinking outside the box here !! What about a - wait for it - a good 5 stat m+t charolais bull and u have good heavy weanlings and replacements if ya want too - oh and if ya want to finish that's not a bother oh and 1 more thing they will probobly be quite and easy to handle as well - now I know it's a long shot but it just mite workðŸ˜

Oh wait for it! I wouldn't agree. There's no need for the condescending tone, I've my opinion and you've yours lets just leave it that way.

The Cuban · 17-10-2015 7:31pm

Grueller wrote: »

Lot of outdated rubbish being spoken here. Blues were all of that twenty years ago but not now. If you are going to sell weanlings they are the only game in town. They will cross very well with ch, pt, lm or ba.
We have never had difficulty with blues calving and have them here year on year for the last 15-20. The only bull ever gave us trouble was a charolais.

What color bull are you using, is it all white, black & white or blue ?
Do you have any Charolais cows to cross them with?

patsy_mccabe · 17-10-2015 7:44pm

Very hard to keep white Charolais
Clean.

ellewood · 17-10-2015 7:44pm

Miname wrote: »

Oh wait for it! I wouldn't agree. There's no need for the condescending tone, I've my opinion and you've yours lets just leave it that way.

V sorry I ment to quote op - I wasn't having a go at u at all the point I was making was sometimes lads over think these things trying to get something they may already have
I'd agree a good thick mucely limo will do the same and so will a blue but I know several lads that run blues with Sucklers 1st thing they have a completely different cow to ops cows secondly if all you're blues are export quality happy days but a blue not up to the export mark has v few customers and lastly blue bulls have a habit of not lasting too long in herds
That's all I was saying again v sorry bout toneðŸ˜

Btw I taught when you put a smiley face on post it wasn't to b taken seriously anyways

ellewood · 17-10-2015 7:45pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Very hard to keep white Charolais
Clean.

Big problem with them alright..

White Clover · 17-10-2015 7:48pm

Grueller wrote: »

Lot of outdated rubbish being spoken here. Blues were all of that twenty years ago but not now. If you are going to sell weanlings they are the only game in town. They will cross very well with ch, pt, lm or ba.
We have never had difficulty with blues calving and have them here year on year for the last 15-20. The only bull ever gave us trouble was a charolais.

Do u still have the pedigrees grueller ?
Iirc you used do some embryo work with them ?

Grueller · 17-10-2015 10:00pm

The Cuban wrote: »

What color bull are you using, is it all white, black & white or blue ?
Do you have any Charolais cows to cross them with?

All white at the moment. Colour is unimportant imo. Its conformation that matters with the weanling game. We have had all black, black and white and white. We find the all white are softest on the feet but all weanlings are sold here and no replacement heifers kept from blue. We keep a limo to bull our milkiest cows for that.

Grueller · 17-10-2015 10:03pm

White Clover wrote: »

Do u still have the pedigrees grueller ?
Iirc you used do some embryo work with them ?

Just the 2 cows to flush. We are in dairy country so the all white bull sells best for the dairy cross as a black bull leaves fr cross calves looking too friesian in marking.

Belgian Blue Bull on Charolais cows

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