Budget 2016

lakill Farm

As a farmer and tax payer ( part time / Full time) new entrant or ready to retire


What would you like to see in Budget 2016




Some of mine

• Reduction of USC wth USC fully removed or PRSI removed by 2020
• Increase in the 4 years off offsetting farm loss against other income
• Reduction in minimum PRSI from €500 back to €253
• Introduction of the self employed tax credit.
• Introduction of social welfare schemes for self employed (sickness benefit, job seeker, etc)
• Increase of the capital acquisition tax (CAT) thresholds. (was 500k now half that.)
• freezing of property tax thresholds to smooth out current property increases
• Reintroduction of accelerated capital allowances
• Extend land consolidation deadline
• Extend stock relief
• Re-introduction of rent tax credit, bin/service charge credit
• extending agricultural relief
• a property rural environment scheme needs to be drawn up to replace glas & aseos
• the minister of agriculture needs to have a single portfolio not diluted with another office such is current
• there should be a cap on excise duty when fuel hits a certain price per barrel to smooth out fluctuation of oil prices.

any to add?

Greengrass1

lakill Farm wrote: »

As a farmer and tax payer ( part time / Full time) new entrant or ready to retire


What would you like to see in Budget 2016




Some of mine

• Reduction of USC wth USC fully removed or PRSI removed by 2020
• Increase in the 4 years off offsetting farm loss against other income
• Reduction in minimum PRSI from €500 back to €253
• Introduction of the self employed tax credit.
• Introduction of social welfare schemes for self employed (sickness benefit, job seeker, etc)
• Increase of the capital acquisition tax (CAT) thresholds. (was 500k now half that.)
• freezing of property tax thresholds to smooth out current property increases
• Reintroduction of accelerated capital allowances
• Extend land consolidation deadline
• Extend stock relief
• Re-introduction of rent tax credit, bin/service charge credit
• extending agricultural relief
• a property rural environment scheme needs to be drawn up to replace glas & aseos
• the minister of agriculture needs to have a single portfolio not diluted with another office such is current
• there should be a cap on excise duty when fuel hits a certain price per barrel to smooth out fluctuation of oil prices.

any to add?

Reintroduction of the early retirement scheme

lakill Farm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Reintroduction of the early retirement scheme

excellent idea. Would tie in with last years budget of increasing the tax free land rent limits

rangler1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Reintroduction of the early retirement scheme

I wouldn't be holding your breath on that one, a young farmer is forty.....what's early retirement, maybe 80

Greengrass1

lakill Farm wrote: »

excellent idea. Would tie in with last years budget of increasing the tax free land rent limits

What was the age for it? 60?

frazzledhome

USC USC USC

White Clover

Greengrass1 wrote: »

What was the age for it? 60?

55

White Clover

frazzledhome wrote: »

USC USC USC

+1,000,000

I said

Maybe something like tax relief for land improvements eg reseeding and drainage work rather than give Bob the builder the grant money for slurry storage and animal housing

lakill Farm

I said wrote: »

Maybe something like tax relief for land improvements eg reseeding and drainage work rather than give Bob the builder the grant money for slurry storage and animal housing

you already get tax relief for land improvement through your accounts

Nettleman

Would like to see some genuine help for New entrants/young trained farmers by way of accelerated Capital allowances (or even double rate)
Delayed tax charge on BPS for young farmers-one year. National Reserve paid 1st week of December, taxable in same year at the moment.
Farmers tax deposit scheme sounds like a progressive idea-was rumoured in previous years I think.

these wont cost anything, they are only timing issues

Tax incentive (double relief) for completion of farm safety course to help reduce farm fatalities/accidents/near misses and raise awareness
Lower the farmers flat vat rate as coops are the ones who benefit in reality, not the farmer.

Buford T. Justice XIX

White Clover wrote: »

+1,000,000

:eek:

Hopefully more like a 2% cut in the base rate and an increase in the threshold levels rather than a million% increase:pac:

Sacrolyte

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Reintroduction of the early retirement scheme

Are ya trying to give him a nudge there GG

lakill Farm

maybe a reduction in CGT from 33% back to 25% or lower

Buford T. Justice XIX

lakill Farm wrote: »

maybe a reduction in CGT from 33% back to 25% or lower

We'd be doing well to get to 25% I think, tbh, but I would be happy with that.

I was reading about the huge increase in revenue brought in when McCreevy dropped the CGT to 20% and the columnist was saying that increase was more due to the large levels of money in the system at that stage rather than a direct result of the rate drop.

hurling_lad

Colm McCarthy was on the radio recently saying that, given how precarious the state's finances still are, his favoured budget would be no budget at all i.e. no changes to spending or taxes and use the excess cash to pay down government debt.

I'd be inclined to agree with him.

visatorro

hurling_lad wrote: »

Colm McCarthy was on the radio recently saying that, given how precarious the state's finances still are, his favoured budget would be no budget at all i.e. no changes to spending or taxes and use the excess cash to pay down government debt.

I'd be inclined to agree with him.

terror thou, with this being the last budget before an election you wonder will government try to buy votes.
Id tend to agree with what colm mccarthy is saying. that we are far from over the hill.
I don't think tax payers alone will bail out national debt. they are going to have to sort out the hse which seems to be a bottomless pit which is a mess. the legal system is also a screw that doesn't stop turning.

id like to see the safety grant extended and widened to include road worthy machine, cattle trailers etc.

Greengrass1

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Are ya trying to give him a nudge there GG

djmc

I'd like to see a hefty tax put on supermarkets and the money generated given back to Irish farmers in the form of new schemes like reps 4 paid per heacter and not tied to production
Or a tax on all food sold whether imported or not
At least something to tackle below cost selling

rangler1

visatorro wrote: »

terror thou, with this being the last budget before an election you wonder will government try to buy votes.
Id tend to agree with what colm mccarthy is saying. that we are far from over the hill.
I don't think tax payers alone will bail out national debt. they are going to have to sort out the hse which seems to be a bottomless pit which is a mess. the legal system is also a screw that doesn't stop turning.

id like to see the safety grant extended and widened to include road worthy machine, cattle trailers etc.

+1
If those of us that are self employed have a backlog of work, we have to work long days to catch up.....seemingly the public service can walk away at the end of a 40hr week (at the most) no matter what chaos or backlog there's there. was there any excuse to have that guy out on bail for 9 mths that shot the guard...will no one put the work in to catch up.
As you say throwing money at the HSE only seems to make it worse, face facts we have rubbish services and paying dear for them

I said

lakill Farm wrote: »

you already get tax relief for land improvement through your accounts

My error a grant for it then

_Brian

The USC has to be the biggest most blatant theft from workers paypackets..

We need to get back to having a third tax band as there once was with super-high earners paying more.

The early retirement scheme would be great to see back if nothing else to help reduce the age profile of farmers in an effort to reduce the elderly being injured in accidents..

major tax incentives to companies setting up outside the main industry centers of Dublin/Cork/Galway, with a sliding scale of grants/reliefs depending on the more disadvantaged area they locate to..

interestingly it seems that they are to double the giveaway to €3bln, if that isnt vote buying what is it !!

And the national debt is continuing to spiral..

Grueller

rangler1 wrote: »

+1
If those of us that are self employed have a backlog of work, we have to work long days to catch up.....seemingly the public service can walk away at the end of a 40hr week (at the most) no matter what chaos or backlog there's there. was there any excuse to have that guy out on bail for 9 mths that shot the guard...will no one put the work in to catch up.
As you say throwing money at the HSE only seems to make it worse, face facts we have rubbish services and paying dear for them

Hate these type of posts. People have working conditions and are entitled to go home at the end of a day. They did not ask you, me or anybody else to be self employed. An awful lot of them would work overtime if it was available and paid but it's not so they are right not to. I will get lambasted for saying this but farmers appear to be among the worst for criticising them, despite the fact that an awful lot of these critical farmers about here would not be overworked themselves outside of peak season for their particular enterprise.

_Brian

rangler1 wrote: »

+1
If those of us that are self employed have a backlog of work, we have to work long days to catch up.....seemingly the public service can walk away at the end of a 40hr week (at the most) no matter what chaos or backlog there's there. was there any excuse to have that guy out on bail for 9 mths that shot the guard...will no one put the work in to catch up.
As you say throwing money at the HSE only seems to make it worse, face facts we have rubbish services and paying dear for them

Grueller wrote: »

Hate these type of posts. People have working conditions and are entitled to go home at the end of a day. They did not ask you, me or anybody else to be self employed. An awful lot of them would work overtime if it was available and paid but it's not so they are right not to. I will get lambasted for saying this but farmers appear to be among the worst for criticising them, despite the fact that an awful lot of these critical farmers about here would not be overworked themselves outside of peak season for their particular enterprise.

I think every career no matter what has its perks, be that Farmer or Teacher.

I do odd school drops and pick-up's (perk of my job) and the number of Farmers able to drop and pick their kids from school is fantastic - for a 9-5 worker this simple task is a total nightmare often having to be paid for. These people leaving their jobs on the dot of five often have an hour drive home to pick up kids from childminders that they dropped off at 8am and haven't seen since - then face into dinner - homework - and some sort of a compressed family life..

Rangler , public service workers are more like like farmers than many would like to admit, some do trojan work and deal with shiite day in day out, some are useless seeming not to be capable of making a decision nor breaking a sweat.

rangler1

Grueller wrote: »

Hate these type of posts. People have working conditions and are entitled to go home at the end of a day. They did not ask you, me or anybody else to be self employed. An awful lot of them would work overtime if it was available and paid but it's not so they are right not to. I will get lambasted for saying this but farmers appear to be among the worst for criticising them, despite the fact that an awful lot of these critical farmers about here would not be overworked themselves outside of peak season for their particular enterprise.

I'm sorry, but at the Irish tax rate, I expect better service.
You see it here, especially at this time of the year, payments held up just because they're not processed.
Is the HSE as efficient as it can be or is it another irish water.....wonder what it costs in england per head of population to run the health service.
Had a friend in a traffic accident that had to wait on the side of the road for an ambulance to comeback after delivering the first casualty instead of having two ambulance..ccould go on and on

_Brian

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but at the Irish tax rate, I expect better service.
You see it here, especially at this time of the year, payments held up just because they're not processed.
Is the HSE as efficient as it can be or is it another irish water.....wonder what it costs in england per head of population to run the health service.
Had a friend in a traffic accident that had to wait on the side of the road for an ambulance to comeback after delivering the first casualty instead of having two ambulance..ccould go on and on

We're currently borrowing €3 million a day to cover the deficit of tax intake, I'd say we're damn lucky to have what we have. And the government are throwing out €3bln in tax breaks and spending increases.. Feckin Banana economics right there :eek:

rangler1

_Brian wrote: »

We're currently borrowing €3 million a day to cover the deficit of tax intake, I'd say we're damn lucky to have what we have. And the government are throwing out €3bln in tax breaks and spending increases.. Feckin Banana economics right there :eek:

And who's advising the government, when we'd be meeting politicians after an election, you'd notice it was only the glove puppets that changed, it was always the same puppeteers

'Yes Minister' comes to mind

_Brian

rangler1 wrote: »

And who's advising the government, when we'd be meeting politicians after an election, you'd notice it was only the glove puppets that changed, it was always the same puppeteers

'Yes Minister' comes to mind

Everyone is entitled to their position... but I feel that criticizing the front line public sector / civil servants for going home at the end of their working day is juvenile. They have a job to do and after all they are just tax payers like the rest of us, perhaps paying more tax than many farms do !

Greengrass1

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/10/12/budget-2016-delayed-by-government-after-noonan-forgets-to-carry-the-one/

rangler1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/10/12/budget-2016-delayed-by-government-after-noonan-forgets-to-carry-the-one/

It'd be funny if it wasn't so true

Grueller

rangler1 wrote: »

And who's advising the government, when we'd be meeting politicians after an election, you'd notice it was only the glove puppets that changed, it was always the same puppeteers

'Yes Minister' comes to mind

I agree 100% but it is media spin to put the blame on the front line worker. If somebody emptied your tool shed you would find it hard to do your job, that is what has really happened in the front line services with under resourcing.

The world war one line of "lions led by donkeys" comes to mind as in my experience our front line public servants are very good but are let down by our policy makers.

Panch18

_Brian wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their position... but I feel that criticizing the front line public sector / civil servants for going home at the end of their working day is juvenile. They have a job to do and after all they are just tax payers like the rest of us, perhaps paying more tax than many farms do !

Well it's easy to know where your bread is buttered!!

This ****e about front line workers, front line, you'd swear it was WW2 they were working in

Fact is this country is being taking for a F""king ride by its public sector and anyone thinking otherwise is in cloud cuckoo land

And another thing, public sector workers DO NOT contribute to the government tax take, that has to come from private sector enterprises

_Brian

Maybe that poor guards family would beg to differ at your reference to WW2, there's one PS worker killed at te front lines. And how many are injured, or even just abused by the self richous joe public thinking they own them and can abuse them for just getting on with their job.

And on what plannet do Public or civil service workers not pay tax into the state coffers ?? Are you delusional enough to think they don't pay tax or somehow the tax they pay doesn't matter ??

Baby the way I'm neither public nor civil servant. I know plenty who are, and while some have nice jobs, many have hard jobs for modest pay that don't deserve the poor treatment they often get on anon Internet forums.

rangler1

_Brian wrote: »

Maybe that poor guards family would beg to differ at your reference to WW2, there's one PS worker killed at te front lines. And how many are injured, or even just abused by the self richous joe public thinking they own them and can abuse them for just getting on with their job.

And on what plannet do Public or civil service workers not pay tax into the state coffers ?? Are you delusional enough to think they don't pay tax or somehow the tax they pay doesn't matter ??

Baby the way I'm neither public nor civil servant. I know plenty who are, and while some have nice jobs, many have hard jobs for modest pay that don't deserve the poor treatment they often get on anon Internet forums.

Fairly serious to leave that sort out on bail for nine mths though, those guys have nothing to lose and usually reoffend in some way or other while they're out on bail....yes my house has been ransacked here once.
If a PS gets 70000 and pays 25000 'tax' is he considered a contributor or benficiary of the national coffers....often wondered that since a woman said on joe duffy at the start of the recession that only for the public service no one would be paying tax

Grueller

Why pick €70,000 as the salary to highlight? The run of the mill civil servant we usually meet has a svale of €26-42k per annum. €70k is management grade.

Dawggone

A leading Irish economist was asked at what I will call an event, 'what would advise your child to do?'
'No brainer' he said 'civil service, of course'.
Guaranteed salary, no matter what, golden pensions, and can't be fired.



Ffs grow up...the lot of ye!

Most farmers, including yours truly, are married/related to a civil servant. Enough already.
We all know the civil servants are way overpaid and under productive.


Sad thing is people are dying in the want of a bit of care.

Grueller

Dawggone wrote: »

A leading Irish economist was asked at what I will call an event, 'what would advise your child to do?'
'No brainer' he said 'civil service, of course'.
Guaranteed salary, no matter what, golden pensions, and can't be fired.



Ffs grow up...the lot of ye!

Most farmers, including yours truly, are married/related to a civil servant. Enough already.
We all know the civil servants are way overpaid and under productive.


Sad thing is people are dying in the want of a bit of care.

No, we have been told that by the media and most choose to believe it and also that they are idle and don't care about the job. Funny, a lot of these people that believe that also believe that us farmers do nothing but drive new jeeps paid for on the back of free money from Europe that they have contributed to.

Dawggone

Grueller wrote: »

No, we have been told that by the media and most choose to believe it and also that they are idle and don't care about the job. Funny, a lot of these people that believe that also believe that us farmers do nothing but drive new jeeps paid for on the back of free money from Europe that they have contributed to.

ROFLMAO!

Civil service are letting people die...
Please explain?
Is it because farmers get billions of free money from EU?

_Brian

No matter how you slice or dice it.
They have tax deducted from their wages and so they are tax payers.

There's always an element of the green eyed monster in these discussions.

Dawggone

_Brian wrote: »

No matter how you slice or dice it.
They have tax deducted from their wages and so they are tax payers.

There's always an element of the green eyed monster in these discussions.

Are you a CS employee Brian?

Grueller

Dawggone wrote: »

ROFLMAO!

Civil service are letting people die...
Please explain?
Is it because farmers get billions of free money from EU?

Bit sensationalist there now Dawggone in fairness. You would think that nurses and surgeons were downing tools from operating theatres while patients bled out to have a tea break.
You are not stupid, you know the point I was making. Peoples perception, even yours often differs from the reality, largely due to media influence. Not getting any further into this as I am off to bed now.

Panch18

_Brian wrote: »

Maybe that poor guards family would beg to differ at your reference to WW2, there's one PS worker killed at te front lines. And how many are injured, or even just abused by the self richous joe public thinking they own them and can abuse them for just getting on with their job.

And on what plannet do Public or civil service workers not pay tax into the state coffers ?? Are you delusional enough to think they don't pay tax or somehow the tax they pay doesn't matter ??

Baby the way I'm neither public nor civil servant. I know plenty who are, and while some have nice jobs, many have hard jobs for modest pay that don't deserve the poor treatment they often get on anon Internet forums.

With regards to the tax, let's take a county, county Sligo for example. Now let's say every worker in county Sligo is a public sector worker. So the government of county Sligo have to pay the wages of these public sector employees

Lets go through the numbers

Say 1,000 workers being paid 500 a week gross and 400 net. So the government must pay out 400k in wages at the end of the week

So tell me where is this 400k going to come from exactly????

_Brian

Dawggone wrote: »

A leading Irish economist was asked at what I will call an event, 'what would advise your child to do?'
'No brainer' he said 'civil service, of course'.
Guaranteed salary, no matter what, golden pensions, and can't be fired.



Ffs grow up...the lot of ye!

Most farmers, including yours truly, are married/related to a civil servant. Enough already.
We all know the civil servants are way overpaid and under productive.


Sad thing is people are dying in the want of a bit of care.

We've gone way off the topic here but such a generalisation is just a demonstration of ignorance or maybe your closest experience is of a really poor civil servant.

My oh works in the HSE, their department works damn hard and they get fair pay, but after six years in college and 20 years experience that's to be expected. Their department covers 8-8 rather than 9-5 and their absence rate in the department is less than 2%. They've taken a 15% pay cut and are working more hours for free.

Like any other industry there are good and bad workers among the ranks. The need for a proper discipline process is obvious for improved accountability. But it's just damn wrong to label them all as under productive and overpaid

Dawggone

Grueller wrote: »

Bit sensationalist there now Dawggone in fairness. You would think that nurses and surgeons were downing tools from operating theatres while patients bled out to have a tea break.
You are not stupid, you know the point I was making. Peoples perception, even yours often differs from the reality, largely due to media influence. Not getting any further into this as I am off to bed now.

My OH will debate with you 'till the cows come home what a bunch of wasters the CS are. She is a former (seriously overpaid) teacher.
She comes from a very go-ahead business family and she couldn't stick the shyte that goes on and quit, even though she was on over €50k pa.
Where we live now a teacher is on €26k after 7 yrs....

_Brian

Panch18 wrote: »

With regards to the tax, let's take a county, county Sligo for example. Now let's say every worker in county Sligo is a public sector worker. So the government of county Sligo have to pay the wages of these public sector employees

Lets go through the numbers

Say 1,000 workers being paid 500 a week gross and 400 net. So the government must pay out 400k in wages at the end of the week

So tell me where is this 400k going to come from exactly????

Were borrowing it, that's where it comes from.
All tax take, including that from private enterprise, PAYE, public and civil servants isn't enough to run the country.

But your example still shows that individually they are tax payers. Tax is deducted from their wages the very same as it is from those working in the private sector. That'd makes each one a tax payer.

Panch18

_Brian wrote: »

Maybe that poor guards family would beg to differ at your reference to WW2, there's one PS worker killed at te front lines. And how many are injured, or even just abused by the self richous joe public thinking they own them and can abuse them for just getting on with their job.

And on what plannet do Public or civil service workers not pay tax into the state coffers ?? Are you delusional enough to think they don't pay tax or somehow the tax they pay doesn't matter ??

Baby the way I'm neither public nor civil servant. I know plenty who are, and while some have nice jobs, many have hard jobs for modest pay that don't deserve the poor treatment they often get on anon Internet forums.

And please don't bring that poor Garda into this. A terrible tragedy for him and his family

but if you want to talk about risks in the job then you are on the wrong forum, how many farmers and their relatives are killed in farms every year versus Gardai?? There is no comparison

Is there a person on here who doesn't know a farmer who has been killed in their locality

So you are barking up the wrong tree there

rangler1

_Brian wrote: »

We've gone way off the topic here but such a generalisation is just a demonstration of ignorance or maybe your closest experience is of a really poor civil servant.

My oh works in the HSE, their department works damn hard and they get fair pay, but after six years in college and 20 years experience that's to be expected. Their department covers 8-8 rather than 9-5 and their absence rate in the department is less than 2%. They've taken a 15% pay cut and are working more hours for free.

Like any other industry there are good and bad workers among the ranks. The need for a proper discipline process is obvious for improved accountability. But it's just damn wrong to label them all as under productive and overpaid

15% pay cut means nothing if the base year was before 2008, I know solicitors that took an 80% pay cut or builders that got 100% and no socisl welfare

Panch18

Grueller wrote: »

No, we have been told that by the media and most choose to believe it and also that they are idle and don't care about the job. Funny, a lot of these people that believe that also believe that us farmers do nothing but drive new jeeps paid for on the back of free money from Europe that they have contributed to.

Rubbish, the public sector get a nice cushy ride from the majority of the press

I said

Poor civil servants have to listen to sum **** in there jobs.
An example of a waste of money is the medical card.

djmc

Have family that are and my wife is one
But I still don't like fupin civil serpents
Tax they pay as well as their wages comes from the public purse.
The whole public sector should be out for tender and let private companies do the jobs on time and under budget at their own peril.
The wastages that goes on is ridiculous and nobody is accountable.

Panch18

_Brian wrote: »

Were borrowing it, that's where it comes from.
All tax take, including that from private enterprise, PAYE, public and civil servants isn't enough to run the country.

But your example still shows that individually they are tax payers. Tax is deducted from their wages the very same as it is from those working in the private sector. That'd makes each one a tax payer.

eh eh wrong,
wrong wrong wrong

But I think you are being deliberately evasive with your answer as you know the situation

They contribute nothing to the governments coffers as is clearly proven. The government can only pay out income received from sources from the private sector