Golf club discimination

doublej

A golf club that is licensed to sell alcohol and is registered under the Registration of Clubs Act has a category of membership for Husbands and Wives.
The annual sub for an adult is€750 but those in the H&W category enjoy a 10% discount and pay €1,350 or €675 each.

Two brothers, sisters or lovers who are members of the same club but cannot marry each other can never avail of this benefit.

Is the Club discriminating against persons on Civil Status grounds?

I'm aware of the changes that will need to be put in place to accommodate SSM which would substitute H&W for married couple but that is not the question posed.

Incidentally, if one of the married persons dies, the surviving member reverts to paying as a single adult.

Ken.

The 9 grounds for discrimination are the following.
Gender
Civil Status
Family Status
Sexual Orientation
Religion
Age
Disability
Race
Membership of the Traveller Community

You might have them on civil or family status but you'd really need a solicitor to go through your options. Everything online seems to be aimed at discrimination on employment grounds. Can't find anything on club membership.

walshyn93

They're not really discriminating against anyone. Just in favour of some people, not necessarily at everyone else's expense. Pretty frivolous claim. Clubs can cater to the needs of a specific group of people and discriminate based on that. If they're catering to the social/golfing needs of husband and wives then that's fine and dandy. They're also not barring brothers and sisters from joining, and the cost of ordinary membership is not prohibitive in relation to the couple's deal.

Manach

Offhand there was a SC case that allowed in Golf courses a freedom of choice/discrimination on who could or nor apply for membership. Thus in light of this it would be unlikely the grivence would get much traction given the likelihood of clubs fighting this interference in their internal mechanisms.

ZENER

Most swimming pools, community centres, gyms offer a Family membership, Parent and children (not forgetting the lone parent, two dads, two mams scenario) same thing in my opinion.

As Walshyn93 says, it's beneficial if you're a member of any of the groups mentioned.

Ken

doublej

More than a little surprised at responses.

If the Husband and Wife category was one that all members could apply to join, then the financial benefit that the Club grants to that group would not be discriminatory.As it stands, the only difference between two groups of adult members is their marital status.
There is no justification for this unequal treatment.

A club with a licence to sell alcohol is different from a swimming club as it needs an annual confirmation of their bona fides from a Court.

There was a suggestion from one of the respondents to the effect that the difference in subscription was small.
It's either discriminatory behaviour or it isn't unless you think that a little discrimination is frivolous but if you have to pay substantially more than another person it is only then that you should take umbrage.

walshyn93

doublej wrote: »

More than a little surprised at responses.

If the Husband and Wife category was one that all members could apply to join, then the financial benefit that the Club grants to that group would not be discriminatory.As it stands, the only difference between two groups of adult members is their marital status.
There is no justification for this unequal treatment.

A club with a licence to sell alcohol is different from a swimming club as it needs an annual confirmation of their bona fides from a Court.

There was a suggestion from one of the respondents to the effect that the difference in subscription was small.
It's either discriminatory behaviour or it isn't unless you think that a little discrimination is frivolous but if you have to pay substantially more than another person it is only then that you should take umbrage.

The courts take a dim view of busybodies and time wasters. Rightly so.

Since the only real remedy would be to bar the club from giving a special discount to a certain group of people, thus depriving them and the plaintiff gaining nothing the court would be unlikely to rule on it. Add in the fact that our constitution stresses the importance of marriage and the family, it seems reasonable to want to encourage a certain family atmosphere. No different than a family rate since presumably only adults can become members.

doublej

walshyn93 wrote: »

The courts take a dim view of busybodies and time wasters. Rightly so.

Since the only real remedy would be to bar the club from giving a special discount to a certain group of people, thus depriving them and the plaintiff gaining nothing the court would be unlikely to rule on it. Add in the fact that our constitution stresses the importance of marriage and the family, it seems reasonable to want to encourage a certain family atmosphere. No different than a family rate since presumably only adults can become members.

The Equal Status Acts 2000-2012 bans discrimination on the grounds of Civil Status.
Individuals are entitled to equal treatment whether single,married,separated,divorced or widowed, in a civil partnership or previously in a civil partnership.

If the golf club needs €210,000 from their 300 adult members,the 200 married couples pay 675 each and the 100 members pay 750 each.
It would be fairer for each member to pay 700.
There would therefore be a benefit to a complainant.

Regardless of the special position accorded to marriage, the days of an employer justifying a different pay grade to a married man over a single man are well and truly over.

walshyn93

doublej wrote: »

The Equal Status Acts 2000-2012 bans discrimination on the grounds of Civil Status.
Individuals are entitled to equal treatment whether single,married,separated,divorced or widowed, in a civil partnership or previously in a civil partnership.

If the golf club needs €210,000 from their 300 adult members,the 200 married couples pay 675 each and the 100 members pay 750 each.
It would be fairer for each member to pay 700.
There would therefore be a benefit to a complainant.

Regardless of the special position accorded to marriage, the days of an employer justifying a different pay grade to a married man over a single man are well and truly over.

This is not about pay. This is a marketing decision. The Equal Status act is not absolute. Refer to Equality Authority v Portmarnock Golf Club.

Victor

walshyn93 wrote: »

This is not about pay. This is a marketing decision.

A bigoted marketing decision.

The Equal Status act is not absolute. Refer to Equality Authority v Portmarnock Golf Club.

The judge was wrong!

>_>

<_<

While a club can be set up for a specific purpose. A discriminating club shouldn't be entitled to an alcohol licence.

the world wonders

ZENER wrote: »

Most swimming pools, community centres, gyms offer a Family membership, Parent and children (not forgetting the lone parent, two dads, two mams scenario) same thing in my opinion.

The difference here appears to be that the offer is specifically restricted to married couples. Cohabitees can get lost...

GreatDefector

If it was a student discount, how would you feel then? Are shops, clubs, pubs, even public transport then discriminating on educational, status?... Nope

It's a discount given to people to encourage multiple memberships. You're reading way too much into it

the world wonders

GreatDefector wrote: »

If it was a student discount, how would you feel then? Are shops, clubs, pubs, even public transport then discriminating on educational, status?... Nope

Educational status is not one of the protected statuses under the Equal Status Act, see above.

ken wrote:

The 9 grounds for discrimination are the following.
Gender
Civil Status
Family Status
Sexual Orientation
Religion
Age
Disability
Race
Membership of the Traveller Community

walshyn93

Is the government bigoted because it gives tax breaks to married couples?

Peregrinus

You can justify a reduction in rate for couples on the same principle as you can justify bulk discounts for goods, or "introduce a friend" discounts for goods or services - it benefits the club if one member brings in a second member.

Plus, Equal Status Act 2000 section 16 explicitly permits "a reasonable preferential fee, charge or rate in respect of anything offered or provided to or in respect of persons together with their children, married couples, persons in a specific age group or persons with a disability". So you can have reasonable couple discounts, family discounts, seniors discounts and disability discounts.

Del2005

Peregrinus wrote: »

Plus, Equal Status Act 2000 section 16 explicitly permits "a reasonable preferential fee, charge or rate in respect of anything offered or provided to or in respect of persons together with their children, married couples, persons in a specific age group or persons with a disability". So you can have reasonable couple discounts, family discounts, seniors discounts and disability discounts.

So basically it's only equal status if you are one of the 9 listed and if you aren't one of the 9 listed the equal status act doesn't count. No point in saying everyone should be equal, yet some can be more equal than others if it benefits them. If it benefits some then others have been discriminated against, ie non married people have to pay more to join a golf club. Which means that the equal status legislation has inequality built into it!

Peregrinus

Del2005 wrote: »

So basically it's only equal status if you are one of the 9 listed and if you aren't one of the 9 listed the equal status act doesn't count. No point in saying everyone should be equal, yet some can be more equal than others if it benefits them. If it benefits some then others have been discriminated against, ie non married people have to pay more to join a golf club. Which means that the equal status legislation has inequality built into it!

What you need to understand is that any time you make a choice between A and B you are discriminating. You buy chocolate ice-cream instead of strawberry? Discrimination. You may passes at girls but not at boys? Discrimination. You let the 86 bus go by and wait for the 48A? Discrimination. Any time you treat two things differently, you are discriminating between them.

What the Equal Status Act does is to try to identify situations and contexts in which we consider discrimination to be unacceptable. That, of course, it itself making a discrimination (between different treatment which we permit, and different treatment which we do not permit). But I don't see that that's a bad thing.

beauf

Does the club actual check on the status of couple. Will it sign allow non married people sign up to the offer.

walshyn93

Del2005 wrote: »

So basically it's only equal status if you are one of the 9 listed and if you aren't one of the 9 listed the equal status act doesn't count. No point in saying everyone should be equal, yet some can be more equal than others if it benefits them. If it benefits some then others have been discriminated against, ie non married people have to pay more to join a golf club. Which means that the equal status legislation has inequality built into it!

The law doesn't say "everyone should be equal". The law isn't idealistic or dogmatic.