Navy pay

Odyssey 2005

Am I right in saying that the naval service are looking to be paid an allowance (tax free I think) and are not getting it because there is nobody shooting at them.:eek:
If they were to shoot guns sure they'd probably go deaf.

corner of hells

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Am I right in saying that the naval service are looking to be paid an allowance (tax free I think) and are not getting it because there is nobody shooting at them.:eek:
If they were shoot him guns sure they'd probably go deaf.

Your second sentence , could you explain it or add in a few more words , please ?

Odyssey 2005

Fixed sorry I'm on a phone:( my bad

SEPT 23 1989

19 shillings and rum rations per week

Menas

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

19 shillings and seven rum rations a week

And if you dont like it you will walk the plank.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

They are in the navy. Their job is to sail ships and carry out whatever orders are given. They are doing just that. Why get an allowance? Imagine a navy that expects to return to their homes every night!

kfallon

C'mon who's gonna post it first.......The Village People!!

The Backwards Man

I thought their job was to search the world for treasure and learn science and technology.

whisky_galore

Joey Grumpy Serf wrote: »

Imagine a navy that expects to return to their homes every night!

somesoldiers

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

19 shillings and rum rations per week

every Thursday it's your turn in the barrel

discus

Joey Grumpy Serf wrote: »

They are in the navy. Their job is to sail ships and carry out whatever orders are given. They are doing just that. Why get an allowance? Imagine a navy that expects to return to their homes every night!

Ah sure, why do they even build accomodation for soldiers, why don't they just stay in a sleeping bag and poncho every night?

A navy spending all their time at sea in wartime is bad enough, why would we expect them to do it for us in peacetime?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

discus wrote: »

Ah sure, why do they even build accomodation for soldiers, why don't they just stay in a sleeping bag and poncho every night?

A navy spending all their time at sea in wartime is bad enough, why would we expect them to do it for us in peacetime?

When was Ireland last at war? Expectation in any navy is for long periods at sea and away from home. But Ireland? No. All it seems to be is a glorified coastguard.

Army live in barracks, navy on the ship. Simple.

Odyssey 2005

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

19 shillings and rum rations per week

I can drink a lot of rum. You sure you still want to pay new 19 bob..

Tabnabs

It's time for the Minister and Dept of Defence to come out and be honest on what this undertaking is costing the State. Other governments have been entirely upfront about it. For example it's costing the Norwegians just over €12,000 per day to have their one ship doing the same work. The Irish people support the efforts of their naval personnel, but there needs to be transparency in this endeavour.

kneemos

discus wrote: »

Ah sure, why do they even build accomodation for soldiers, why don't they just stay in a sleeping bag and poncho every night?

A navy spending all their time at sea in wartime is bad enough, why would we expect them to do it for us in peacetime?

Give them an Aldi Fishing Suit,prop them up anywhere.

discus

Joey Grumpy Serf wrote: »

Army live in barracks, navy on the ship. Simple.

Can't tell if trolling.

You are treating this 'knowledge' that sailors have lived on ships and that's how it always has been. Only, that's wrong. Ships are used for transport. They are expensive to run and to have livable conditions on a ship means you have to make them a lot bigger, and hence more expensive. Even at that, why would you want men - who protect our economy by patrolling our fishing waters - to live in isolation from wider society? No navy does that as it amounts to torture!

I take it your only experience of ships was the occasional trip to France? Most navy ships have 3 or 4 tier bunks, no room bar a small locker. Would you really want people living like that for years at a time?

kneemos

Should change their name to Blue.

TomBtheGoat

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

19 shillings and rum rations per week

And a free parrot.

Joey Grumpy Serf

Joey Grumpy Serf wrote: »

When was Ireland last at war? Expectation in any navy is for long periods at sea and away from home. But Ireland? No. All it seems to be is a glorified coastguard.

Army live in barracks, navy on the ship. Simple.

If I'm (or anyone in a normal job) away from home working I claim everything on expenses, food, accommodation etc why should it be different for the Navy they should be compensated for being away from home and in dangerous situations.

Kimbot

Gage Old Quotation wrote: »

If I'm (or anyone in a normal job) away from home working I claim everything on expenses, food, accommodation etc why should it be different for the Navy they should be compensated for being away from home and in dangerous situations.

Yes but what if the food etc is supplied on their ship at no cost to themselves?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

discus wrote: »

Can't tell if trolling.

You are treating this 'knowledge' that sailors have lived on ships and that's how it always has been. Only, that's wrong. Ships are used for transport. They are expensive to run and to have livable conditions on a ship means you have to make them a lot bigger, and hence more expensive. Even at that, why would you want men - who protect our economy by patrolling our fishing waters - to live in isolation from wider society? No navy does that as it amounts to torture!

I take it your only experience of ships was the occasional trip to France? Most navy ships have 3 or 4 tier bunks, no room bar a small locker. Would you really want people living like that for years at a time?

If you think I'm trolling then report it. I never said years on end anywhere. My experience runs beyond a ferry trip as I had close family in the Irish navy. Naval duty does not involve providing a means of transport, as you know well. Of course conditions are restricted onboard but such is normal naval life in the services worldwide.
If we want to look on the Navy's role as being fisheries protection then call it fisheries protection and not a national naval service.
Anyway, I'm done lest you have further accusations against me.

jonny24ie

jonny24ie wrote: »

Yes but what if the food etc is supplied on their ship at no cost to themselves?

Still should be compensated for being away and living in much less comfortable conditions that if at home. No shops, away from family, no social life etc.

Jawgap

ah sure I'd say the lads are having a riot of a time in Club Med.....

......away from your family for months on end, pulling poor wretches out of over-crowded boats in the middle of the night and in all weathers - sure it sounds brilliant......like an extended cruise and all for about €430 per week (but only after you've been for 6 years)......

......but you do get fed and they do provide those natty uniforms.

.....and that's even before they get home to enjoy the begrudgery of their fellow citizens

They should pay them the €80 (and more) - they're doing a worthwhile job in difficult conditions a long way from home.

osarusan

Joey Grumpy Serf wrote: »

Why get an allowance? Imagine a navy that expects to return to their homes every night!

It has nothing to do with going home every night, and they already get an allowance.


This is the Overseas Peace Support Allowance - 80euro a day for armed missions, 55euro for non-armed missions.

Sailors involved in migrant rescue say the conditions under which they're working ( under threat from armed smugglers, threat of disease from rescued migrants, capturing and detaining smugglers) should entitle them to the higher allowance, Dept of Defence says otherwise and will only pay the lower rate.

Larbre34

I agree. The total allowances will come to about half a million euro for the 180 crew across three ships over 3 x two month deployments.

Given the work they are performing, the horrors they are facing, the lack of rest they are getting and the amount of goodwill and profile they are getting for their nation and their Service, its the best investment the State could ever make.

Now that the EU has decided to turn aggro on the people smugglers, theres no guarantee they wont be shot at by increasingly militant boatmen sometime soon and perhaps have to board and engage them.

Nodin

Is this our first "begrudge the navy" thread?

whisky_galore

Gage Old Quotation wrote: »

Still should be compensated for being away and living in much less comfortable conditions that if at home. No shops, away from family, no social life etc.

Oh boo-hoo. As if that was totally unexpected when they signed up first day.

No shops wtf? Are they supposed to have a Duty Free on board?

Jawgap

whisky_galore wrote: »

Oh boo-hoo. As if that was totally unexpected when they signed up first day.

No shops wtf? Are they supposed to have a Duty Free on board?

Actually it wasn't.

I don't recall a Naval Service ship being sent on an extended deployment outside our EEZ?

Maybe you can point to a previous mission that the NS carried out that set a precedent for this one?

Baron Kurtz

Yvan Eht Nioj

Foxtrol

Jawgap wrote: »

Actually it wasn't.

I don't recall a Naval Service ship being sent on an extended deployment outside our EEZ?

Maybe you can point to a previous mission that the NS carried out that set a precedent for this one?

Typical Irish public sector mindset.

Look for more money whenever asked to do something outside of the exact specifics of the role when you joined.

You join the Navy, it's not surprising there may come a time that you'll have to spend extended time at sea.

cajonlardo

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Am I right in saying that the naval service are looking to be paid an allowance (tax free I think) and are not getting it because there is nobody shooting at them.:eek:
If they were to shoot guns sure they'd probably go deaf.

And yet another one :rolleyes:


How many people have served in the pdf?

How many claimed deafness? a tiny fraction of 1 per cent?

How many ministers , as far back as 1955 were given scientifically supported and peer reviewed studies, warning that not using ear defenders (as every other modern army were doing) was causing hearing damage?

How many civil servants decided not to act on these reports and in so doing wasted taxpayers money and whose negligence resulted in some people having their hearing damaged?

How many solicitors fraudently took taxpayers money throughout the litigation?

How many misinformed or uneducated posters on boards are going to keep spouting crap without the remotest idea of what they are talking about and without ever bothering to find out the facts?

Finally, tell us about the times you were under fire ?
Go on, just so we know that you actually have some idea about what you are talking about?

Regarding the allowance, if an allowance is part of your contracted terms and conditions, then you are entitled to it. If it is not part of your contract then you are not. Not an overly complicated concept.

Mesrine65

Jawgap

Foxtrol wrote: »

Typical Irish public sector mindset.

Look for more money whenever asked to do something outside of the exact specifics of the role when you joined.

You join the Navy, it's not surprising there may come a time that you'll have to spend extended time at sea.

Extended patrols are one thing.......deployment is something completely different.

Plus it's what happens in other navies.

Some RN ratings will be getting upwards of £64 per day while on deployment (on top of salaries more generous than the Naval Service) not to mention the 'hello' money/bonuses they offer (eg £27k signing on bonus if you have an engineering qual)

gramar

If you join the navy then expect to see a bit of water.

cajonlardo

gramar wrote: »

If you join the navy then expect to see a bit of water.

How long is the average Irish naval service patrol?
How many of these do they do a year?

If you don't know should you really be posting and embarrassing yourself by broadcasting your ignorance on a public forum?

Foxtrol

cajonlardo wrote: »

How long is the average Irish naval service patrol?
How many of these do they do a year?

If you don't know should you really be posting and embarrassing yourself by broadcasting your ignorance on a public forum?

I don’t see how the poster is.

If you know these bits of information maybe share with us and it might change our opinions.

Señor Fancy Pants

Foxtrol wrote: »

Typical Irish public sector mindset.

Look for more money whenever asked to do something outside of the exact specifics of the role when you joined.

You join the Navy, it's not surprising there may come a time that you'll have to spend extended time at sea.

Thats not whats actually happening though, is it?

Explain it to me like I just learned to speak English.

Señor Fancy Pants

Joey Grumpy Serf wrote: »

They are in the navy. Their job is to sail ships and carry out whatever orders are given. They are doing just that. Why get an allowance? Imagine a navy that expects to return to their homes every night!

Come on you!

A septuagenarian like yourself should know better. Someone of your means must have claimed an allowance or two during their working life.

If so, I doubt it was an allowance that was directly linked to helping people and potentially putting yourself in danger and away from loved ones for an extended period of time.

The old "you know what you were getting into when you signed up" argument is weak.

gramar

cajonlardo wrote: »

How long is the average Irish naval service patrol?
How many of these do they do a year?

If you don't know should you really be posting and embarrassing yourself by broadcasting your ignorance on a public forum?

You seem a little sensitive there.

I didn't realise I had to pass an entrance exam to be able to post on the thread. It's AH...lighten up.

Jawgap

gramar wrote: »

You seem a little sensitive there.

I didn't realise I had to pass an entrance exam to be able to post on the thread. It's AH...lighten up.

In other words, you can't answer the question

Señor Fancy Pants

gramar wrote: »

You seem a little sensitive there.

I didn't realise I had to pass an entrance exam to be able to post on the thread. It's AH...lighten up.

Sitting an exam would lead people to believe you know a bit of the subject matter.

gramar

Jawgap wrote: »

In other words, you can't answer the question

I didn't ask the question in the first place.

gramar

Señor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Sitting an exam would lead people to believe you know a bit of the subject matter.

It wouldn't because I didn't sit any exam but Cajonlardo seems to think it's a prerequisite.

Jawgap

gramar wrote: »

I didn't ask the question in the first place.

Yes. I know.

The question was asked of you......

Señor Fancy Pants

gramar wrote: »

It wouldn't because I didn't sit any exam but Cajonlardo seems to think it's a prerequisite.

You mentoned an exam, not Cajonlardo.

He merely asked questions to assess your knowledge on the topic.

It seems you have no knowledge of the subject. Thats not a problem, people with knowledge in the subject are here to assist you.

Now, generic one liner posts are not condusive to good discussions. I think you might agree. Lets not try and get nasty and lets discuss the topic, like normal people do.

Foxtrol

Señor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Thats not whats actually happening though, is it?

Explain it to me like I just learned to speak English.

This sort of role wasn’t envisioned when the agreement was made and they are demanding the same payment that Irish Army peacekeepers receive in Lebanon on top of the standard allowance they receive for taking part in rescue missions.

They claim their extended time at sea in the region is part of a peacekeeping role, which to me doesn’t hold water as it is nothing like the threat that the defense forces are under during Peacekeeping.

Also, the government is apparently ok with giving them one or the other payment but they’re demanding both, hence my comment about asking for more money.

Understand now?

Señor Fancy Pants

Foxtrol wrote: »

This sort of role wasn’t envisioned when the agreement was made and they are demanding the same payment that Irish Army peacekeepers receive in Lebanon on top of the standard allowance they receive for taking part in rescue missions.

They claim their extended time at sea in the region is part of a peacekeeping role, which to me doesn’t hold water as it is nothing like the threat that the defense forces are under during Peacekeeping.

Also, the government is apparently ok with giving them one or the other payment but they’re demanding both, hence my comment about asking for more money.

Understand now?

Thanks,

Yes I understand completely. It seems you don't though, I'm not being a smart ass by the way.

Foxtrol

Señor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Thanks,

Yes I understand completely. It seems you don't though, I'm not being a smart ass by the way.

Care to explain what I don't understand?

Seems to be a lot of 'I know better than you what's happening but I'm not going to tell you' going on in this thread. Stinks of bull****

Señor Fancy Pants

Foxtrol wrote: »

Care to explain what I don't understand?

Seems to be a lot of 'I know better than you what's happening but I'm not going to tell you' going on in this thread. Stinks of bull****

It might seem that way but thats not what im saying.

A lot of people read things and either dont understand what they are reading or form an opinion without grasping the meaning behind it. I do it myself from time to time, hell, this could even be one of these times for me

I read the article and it seems maybe the one you read is totally different. I will explain to you my understanding if you please read the below article and see if your opinion changes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/migrant-crisis-naval-service-members-not-due-overseas-pay-1.2382088

Foxtrol

Señor Fancy Pants wrote: »

It might seem that way but thats not what im saying.

A lot of people read things and either dont understand what they are reading or form an opinion without grasping the meaning behind it. I do it myself from time to time, hell, this could even be one of these times for me

I read the article and it seems maybe the one you read is totally different. I will explain to you my understanding if you please read the below article and see if your opinion changes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/migrant-crisis-naval-service-members-not-due-overseas-pay-1.2382088

I don't see much difference between what I typed and this article. The only difference is the time at sea isn’t mentioned but this is a reason that has been trotted out by their supporters (including here).

They are demanding two payments as they believe that because they have had to break up a few fights and carry weapons that they are under similar conditions to the Irish Army that are very dangerous conflict zones in the middle east rather than the Irish Army on humanitarian missions in less dangerous areas. I totally disagree with their representatives and I still see it as a typical public service money grab for having to do anything that is above the norm. They are clearly similar to the latter group receiving the lower payments.

Can you please now explain your opinion that I’ve taken it up so wrong as it’s getting to the stage where I’m starting to think you can’t justify your position at all.

discus

I don't agree with the levels of the extra pay they want, but I reckon it's fair enough to pay a little more. While they are not exactly risking life and limb on the job (like the Peacekeepers are, and believe me they are) their working conditions are hectic for each mission they do. During operationally intensive time at sea, crews can be working 4 on 4 off (hours!) for periods of time. That **** takes years off your life!

But my original point... they demand too much.