Incorrect BER

dudmis

My husband and I bought a house 2 years ago that had a BER rating of B2. The rating was a factor in our decision to buy the house.

When we moved in, we found it to be very cold and we were eating through fuel. So we got the place insulated (100ml internal insulation), changed the boiler to a more energy efficient one, installed 2 energy efficient radiators, put new insulation in the roof and put a new stove in. All-in-all it cost over 30k to do. This does not factor in the price of redecorating after the works were complete.

We had the BER done again - by a different assessor and the rating he gave it was B3.

It would seem that the original BER was way out if it has dropped a rank after 30k was put into it.

My question is what can we do about it? We wouldn't have bought the house if we thought that the BER was that bad (there were other houses that we liked that had low ratings that we didnt put offers on for that reason).

I have phoned the SEAI and got v little help tbh.

Has anyone come across this before or have any suggestions? TIA

ted1

What will a higher rating give you?

Who talked you into spending 30k?

The BER is only a really rough guide. And in many cases is flawed

When you say energy efficient radiators , what type are they?

Cathmandooo

Did your survey not say that the insulation was poor or that the boiler / rads needed replacing when you were buying the house?

Have you got a copy of the original BER?

https://ndber.seai.ie/pass/ber/search.aspx

Stick your mprn into that, it should show both reports. Ask the assessor that you hired if they'd mind having a look and if they think the original was completely incorrect.

Mind you I still don't think you'd have any come back at this stage, the BER seems to me to be a very loose assessment of how warm a house is.

MicktheMan

Ask your ber assessor to estimate what the rating should have been prior to the works (it's maybe 15 minutes work for him/her).
If there is 2 or more grades difference to what you were told when buying, then contact the SEAI with your complaint. If you get nowhere (which I suspect), talk to your solicitor.
Let us know how you get on.

antoinolachtnai

You need to find out from a solicitor experienced in litigation whether this is actionable. It is problematic because on the one hand you acted on foot of the representation of what the BER was supposed to be, but on the other hand, the assessor is a stranger to you in law (that is you never had a contract with him). The solicitor may want to engage counsel (a barrister) and get their opinion.

I personally think this would be a long road but it might be worth spending a few euro to find out.

I don't think SEAI can do much for you practically speaking except check the quality of the two BER assessments.

ted1

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You need to find out from a solicitor experienced in litigation whether this is actionable. It is problematic because on the one hand you acted on foot of the representation of what the BER was supposed to be, but on the other hand, the assessor is a stranger to you in law (that is you never had a contract with him). The solicitor may want to engage counsel (a barrister) and get their opinion.

I personally think this would be a long road but it might be worth spending a few euro to find out.

I don't think SEAI can do much for you practically speaking except check the quality of the two BER assessments.

We still have not identified the issue, no need for lawyers yet.

OP what did you plan to achieve? When was the house built? What type radiators did you out in? Did the house have insulation already ? What type boiler did you take out? Was there boiler controls ?
Who advised on the work to be done ?

The things you done might not have made any difference to the BER.

antoinolachtnai

That is a good point. I do not think a house that truly had a B2 BER rating would feel cold as the OP described.

Perhaps I am overly cynical about the quality of the BER process and I am too quick to assume there is a problem.

My point is really that even if the pre-sale BER does turn out to have been nobbled it would still be a long road to get any compensation for it.

Jen44

I do wonder about BER's. We had a BER done on our old house as we put it on the rental market and it had a D rating. Our new house has an F rating and yet it feels warmer to us than our old one did? I have the thermostat down lower in the new house too. The new house is a much older house it was built in the 60's. I suppose the amount we spend on fuel in a year will be the real indicator

Dardania

The big variable for me in the BER system is that it assumes a certain amount of air tightness. In reality, air tightness varies a huge deal. E.g. in modern houses, unless things are detailed correctly, you can have very poor air tightness, whereas interestingly with older block construction (or in my case poured concrete) the air tightness is excellent.
This accounts for a huge deal of heat loss...

omri

I thought the best way to insulate the house is the outside insulation which covers "more house" and should provide far better results plus you don't have to redecorate the interior, deal with the mess inside and live in house while the job is underway.

Dardania

omri wrote: »

I thought the best way to insulate the house is the outside insulation which covers "more house" and should provide far better results plus you don't have to redecorate the interior, deal with the mess inside and live in house while the job is underway.

Usually yes - depends on specific house of course, but that is usually the optimum.

With the OP, I don't think we are getting all the information - items are being left out. I suspect they want someone to agree with them rather than give all the info to be reviewed and commented upon. But I'm happy to be proven wrong...

TheDriver

Our BER never included facts like thermostats and zoning yet didn't spot obvious lack of ANY insulation over 1 bedroom

makeandcreate

We bought a G rated BER property and spent well over 50k on insulating, dry lining, windows, zoned heating, double glazing, boiler, stoves, rewire etc etc. However, we recently got a BER to put house on market and got a paltry F rate as the BER assessor said he could not physically see the dry line, insulation etc and we had just bought the materials and had a builder do the work. We also have one small window in the back door that is single glazed (cos we broke it doing renovations) and that meant it was all classed as single glaze. Having all energy efficent light bulbs upped our rating - which is crazy, anyone can put any bulbs in - it's a daft thing to rate.
Our house is super warm, my heating bills are really low but struggling to get buyers to look beyond the rating.
Other houses near me have BER B3 ratings and are cold, draughty and poorly built but they crossed the t's and dotted the i's to get the right reports at the time of building.
I wouldn't give a figs notice to the rating myself.

Uncle Ben

makeandcreate wrote: »

We bought a G rated BER property and spent well over 50k on insulating, dry lining, windows, zoned heating, double glazing, boiler, stoves, rewire etc etc. However, we recently got a BER to put house on market and got a paltry F rate as the BER assessor said he could not physically see the dry line, insulation etc and we had just bought the materials and had a builder do the work. We also have one small window in the back door that is single glazed (cos we broke it doing renovations) and that meant it was all classed as single glaze. Having all energy efficent light bulbs upped our rating - which is crazy, anyone can put any bulbs in - it's a daft thing to rate.
Our house is super warm, my heating bills are really low but struggling to get buyers to look beyond the rating.
Other houses near me have BER B3 ratings and are cold, draughty and poorly built but they crossed the t's and dotted the i's to get the right reports at the time of building.
I wouldn't give a figs notice to the rating myself.

Your right, it is a joke. I had spot lights in the kitchen and the assessor told me it would have a negative bearing on the house.Change them he says and you'll get a better one.Green Party my arse. I wonder what the Ber rating for Priory Hall or Longboat Quay are. Now they are problems.

MicktheMan

makeandcreate wrote: »

We bought a G rated BER property and spent well over 50k on insulating, dry lining, windows, zoned heating, double glazing, boiler, stoves, rewire etc etc. However, we recently got a BER to put house on market and got a paltry F rate as the BER assessor said he could not physically see the dry line, insulation etc and we had just bought the materials and had a builder do the work. We also have one small window in the back door that is single glazed (cos we broke it doing renovations) and that meant it was all classed as single glaze. Having all energy efficent light bulbs upped our rating - which is crazy, anyone can put any bulbs in - it's a daft thing to rate.
Our house is super warm, my heating bills are really low but struggling to get buyers to look beyond the rating.
Other houses near me have BER B3 ratings and are cold, draughty and poorly built but they crossed the t's and dotted the i's to get the right reports at the time of building.
I wouldn't give a figs notice to the rating myself.

You got a very lazy ber assessor there. By any chance were they the cheapest?

In order for an assessor to give any better value to, for example, the external walls which have been upgraded, he/she needs documentary / physical evidence to prove to their seai auditors that the non-default value is valid. If documentary proof isn't available or the assessor is not willing to use other means to prove the wall make-up, then they have to default to the value based on the age of the house and ignore the upgrade.
This is the system as work, and as you say, not worth the paper it's written on.

Btw, the sentence is bold is utter bs.

Dardania

makeandcreate wrote: »

We bought a G rated BER property and spent well over 50k on insulating, dry lining, windows, zoned heating, double glazing, boiler, stoves, rewire etc etc. However, we recently got a BER to put house on market and got a paltry F rate as the BER assessor said he could not physically see the dry line, insulation etc and we had just bought the materials and had a builder do the work. We also have one small window in the back door that is single glazed (cos we broke it doing renovations) and that meant it was all classed as single glaze. Having all energy efficent light bulbs upped our rating - which is crazy, anyone can put any bulbs in - it's a daft thing to rate.
Our house is super warm, my heating bills are really low but struggling to get buyers to look beyond the rating.
Other houses near me have BER B3 ratings and are cold, draughty and poorly built but they crossed the t's and dotted the i's to get the right reports at the time of building.
I wouldn't give a figs notice to the rating myself.

Did you use the SEAI BEH scheme? What standard was all this work to?
It's fine saying X money will equal Y increase in rating, but that's not how construction works.

Have you considered either opening up trial holes so the BER assessor can see insulation etc., or another BER assessor altogether, who will enter each window individually?

Lighting power is a significant energy user by the way - efficient bulbs do make a noticeable difference - that I agree with

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Your right, it is a joke. I had spot lights in the kitchen and the assessor told me it would have a negative bearing on the house.Change them he says and you'll get a better one.Green Party my arse. I wonder what the Ber rating for Priory Hall or Longboat Quay are. Now they are problems.

He's right

Sala

I can't find it but I'm sure it was on boards where someone got two and there a massive difference between the two assessments ?