Brendan Rodgers sacked.

Billy86

MightyMandarin wrote: »

You'd swear Palace had won 5 Champions Lea.... oh wait, United fans hate when we talk about our 'history'.

Nah, we get entertained more than anything. Every year before Christmas it is about what you are going to win, and every year after Christmas it is about what you have won way back in the past. I guess the cycle is running a little early this year.

Billy86

Maybe they will pull a rabbit out of a hat and surprise me, but this talk of Klopp and especially Ancelotti is, well, not realistic if you ask me.

brevity

5starpool wrote: »

This thread is as predictable as an episode of Scooby Doo.

It's of the episodes with Scrappy Doo in it as well. The annoying little **** :mad:

Agent Coulson

brevity wrote: »

It's of the episodes with Scrappy Doo in it as well. The annoying little **** :mad:

Let me at em..

TheDoc

This big club stuff is really silly. Liverpool are CLEARLY a big club.

There is a difference between big club, and successful club. Newcastle are a big club. Sunderland are a big club. They just arn't successful clubs. It's not that hard to differentiate. Saying Liverpool are not a big club is stoking fires in that tribal fandom ****e.

Liverpools trials and tribulations are not new and it's not rocket science. What Liverpool have been going through, you can see Ac Milan and Inter going through the same thing in Italy. There comes a point where history, prestige and the iconic shirt simply don't cut it for modern players. A footballers career is relatively short, and that is excluding unplanned incidents like injury or suspensions etc.

So for a player to make a move, where in most cases its a 3-4 year deal, signifies a massive portion of their career. Especially if you take some base numbers of a player having a first team career from 20-30. Thats nearly dedicating half their career to one place.

So it's no surprise to ANYONE that players make moves based on a number of factors, but for a certain quality and type, its about ensuring they are playing in the elite competitions, playing with good players and and trying to win silverware. And unfortunately for Liverpool, it has gone on for so long, that it is very difficult to turnaround. I think part of that problem is a failure to accept their place in the pecking order of things. I'm sure that behind closed doors Liverpool hierarchy etc are a little more realistic, but sometimes the way things are done, you wouldn't think so. Carragher has got some airtime from his comments about how Liverpool are now like Totenham, but the truth is Liverpool have been there for easily a decade, bar the odd sporadic anomaly.

As a United fan, I see the same problems in terms of recruitment at our club, just at a higher level. Players choose Bayern, Barca and Real because of the ease of silverware and the near guarantee of year on year deep runs into the Champions league and title contention.

Liverpool have the same problem at a slightly lower level of the market. They "want" to entice the best players, but they are doing so on a hope they can get into the top 4 and secure champions league. There is no guarantee there. So what's left? Buying players with potential, before the big clubs come sniffing, in the hope they can be moulded into top talent and produce for the team. Obviously that is going to be largely hit or miss. And for Liverpool in recent times it's been mostly miss. But there are some hits there. What must be utterly frustrating is by the time you have that player to the point of "right, we have a talent here, lets build around it" that player jumps ship and moves to a more succesfull club. But while its frustrating, it should not be a surprise considering that is the cycle Liverpool are in.

United very much threw money at the problem to ensure they didn't enter that cycle. Get back into CL ASAP, and ensure you can keep attracting the top talent. But there is a clear pattern emerging where the best players are no longer coming to England. The cyclical nature of the title race means that a big player with unfortunate timing, can spend two years in England with nothing to show for it, and two important years of their career gone also. So its not surprise all the talent is moving to Spain and Germany, if not there already.

The point of the above is that while Liverpool and United sit at different levels in terms of recent success, finances blah blah blah, they do, and will, face the same problems in the coming years, albeit at slightly different ends of the market. And where that becomes even harder for Liverpool, is that when all the top targets choose Bayern, Real or Barca, United move into that sphere where Liverpool are also working, making it even HARDER for them again. So they are forced further down the levels in terms of quality available i nthe market, and need to get creative in terms of buying potential or moulding their own youth players.

Klopp will be a sensible appointment. He has a genuine track record of success but also coaching players to be better, and making teams greater then the sum of their parts. This is the promise Rodger came with, but personally I think it was all bluff. He had a template at Swansea that was there before him that kept working, and he couldn't transfer that over to Liverpool and clearly didn't know what attributes in players he needed for that template.

While Klopp will bring a big personality, and hopefully for Liverpool fans a clear trajectory of improvement, it's a good time for fans and especially ex-players and the rich ex-liverpool punditry environment, to take stock and finally accept how the cards lie. Otherwise the cycle repeats and unrealistic expectations and demands will breathe unrealistic pressure, and another manager driven out of the club with little to nothing to show for it.

Knex.

Knex. wrote: »

People who give out about Klopp seem to have zero idea of the work he did with Mainz before Dortmund as well.

Anyone who doubts what Klopp has achieved in his career either has some ulterior motive or is very ignorant. There's no other manager I'd like to see take over my team more bar maybe Pep. Would be an incredible signing for Liverpool. It could all go tits up obviously but for a team in Liverpool's position he would be an amazing coup.

Harry Palmr

Check out the redcafe thread, suddenly Klopp is likely to fail, is overrated and so on. Until the Liverpool link they were singing his praises to the ceiling and wanted him over LVG

TheDoc

Liam O wrote: »

Anyone who doubts what Klopp has achieved in his career either has some ulterior motive or is very ignorant. There's no other manager I'd like to see take over my team more bar maybe Pep. Would be an incredible signing for Liverpool. It could all go tits up obviously but for a team in Liverpool's position he would be an amazing coup.

He is also a manager who has some clearly positive ties with players he has worked with, and players clearly want to play for him. Could be an added bonus for Liverpool if Klopp arrives, for an avenue to some players that otherwise would be massively unrealistic.

Similar to how Van Gaal's relationship with Memphis was a major advantage in that deal taking place, who knows what player(s) Liverpool could attract with the proposition of Klopp being at the helm.

jpboard1

TheDoc wrote: »

This big club stuff is really silly. Liverpool are CLEARLY a big club.

There is a difference between big club, and successful club. Newcastle are a big club. Sunderland are a big club. They just arn't successful clubs. It's not that hard to differentiate. Saying Liverpool are not a big club is stoking fires in that tribal fandom ****e.

Liverpools trials and tribulations are not new and it's not rocket science. What Liverpool have been going through, you can see Ac Milan and Inter going through the same thing in Italy. There comes a point where history, prestige and the iconic shirt simply don't cut it for modern players. A footballers career is relatively short, and that is excluding unplanned incidents like injury or suspensions etc.

So for a player to make a move, where in most cases its a 3-4 year deal, signifies a massive portion of their career. Especially if you take some base numbers of a player having a first team career from 20-30. Thats nearly dedicating half their career to one place.

So it's no surprise to ANYONE that players make moves based on a number of factors, but for a certain quality and type, its about ensuring they are playing in the elite competitions, playing with good players and and trying to win silverware. And unfortunately for Liverpool, it has gone on for so long, that it is very difficult to turnaround. I think part of that problem is a failure to accept their place in the pecking order of things. I'm sure that behind closed doors Liverpool hierarchy etc are a little more realistic, but sometimes the way things are done, you wouldn't think so. Carragher has got some airtime from his comments about how Liverpool are now like Totenham, but the truth is Liverpool have been there for easily a decade, bar the odd sporadic anomaly.

As a United fan, I see the same problems in terms of recruitment at our club, just at a higher level. Players choose Bayern, Barca and Real because of the ease of silverware and the near guarantee of year on year deep runs into the Champions league and title contention.

Liverpool have the same problem at a slightly lower level of the market. They "want" to entice the best players, but they are doing so on a hope they can get into the top 4 and secure champions league. There is no guarantee there. So what's left? Buying players with potential, before the big clubs come sniffing, in the hope they can be moulded into top talent and produce for the team. Obviously that is going to be largely hit or miss. And for Liverpool in recent times it's been mostly miss. But there are some hits there. What must be utterly frustrating is by the time you have that player to the point of "right, we have a talent here, lets build around it" that player jumps ship and moves to a more succesfull club. But while its frustrating, it should not be a surprise considering that is the cycle Liverpool are in.

United very much threw money at the problem to ensure they didn't enter that cycle. Get back into CL ASAP, and ensure you can keep attracting the top talent. But there is a clear pattern emerging where the best players are no longer coming to England. The cyclical nature of the title race means that a big player with unfortunate timing, can spend two years in England with nothing to show for it, and two important years of their career gone also. So its not surprise all the talent is moving to Spain and Germany, if not there already.

The point of the above is that while Liverpool and United sit at different levels in terms of recent success, finances blah blah blah, they do, and will, face the same problems in the coming years, albeit at slightly different ends of the market. And where that becomes even harder for Liverpool, is that when all the top targets choose Bayern, Real or Barca, United move into that sphere where Liverpool are also working, making it even HARDER for them again. So they are forced further down the levels in terms of quality available i nthe market, and need to get creative in terms of buying potential or moulding their own youth players.

Klopp will be a sensible appointment. He has a genuine track record of success but also coaching players to be better, and making teams greater then the sum of their parts. This is the promise Rodger came with, but personally I think it was all bluff. He had a template at Swansea that was there before him that kept working, and he couldn't transfer that over to Liverpool and clearly didn't know what attributes in players he needed for that template.

While Klopp will bring a big personality, and hopefully for Liverpool fans a clear trajectory of improvement, it's a good time for fans and especially ex-players and the rich ex-liverpool punditry environment, to take stock and finally accept how the cards lie. Otherwise the cycle repeats and unrealistic expectations and demands will breathe unrealistic pressure, and another manager driven out of the club with little to nothing to show for it.

Great post. It seems there are some sensible posters on boards!

Magico Gonzalez

Just wait til Klopp turns up and starts dishing out the slaps. He does like a nice open hander round the chops, thinks it's mad craic.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Check out the redcafe thread, suddenly Klopp is likely to fail, is overrated and so on. Until the Liverpool link they were singing his praises to the ceiling and wanted him over LVG

Being likely to fail at Liverpool would more be to do with the fans having expectations somewhat above the current ability of the squad I'd say. What if Klopp comes in now and form continues the way it has until January? What if there is no money available in January and he has to wait until the Summer to start a rebuild? These could all be factors.

In my opinion he'd get certain players playing better quite quickly but a lot of them are clearly not upto the standard that they would need to be for a top 4 finish which seems to be where a lot of Liverpool fans think they should be, or at least aspiring to be in the near future. These things take time, with significantly less money but less pressure and more time Martinez has brought together a group, albeit from a good base that Moyes left him, that is at least on a par if not better than Liverpool. They are shopping in an echelon below Liverpool in terms of profile and finance too.

Just because I think Klopp is a fantastic manager doesn't mean I'd think everything is going to work out at Liverpool. There are other factors to consider when looking at it. If I had to bet I'd think it would be a success but there are a lot of factors either way.

GLaDOS

As a neutral I'd like to see klopp go to Liverpool. Would be entertaining if nothing else.

TheDoc

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Check out the redcafe thread, suddenly Klopp is likely to fail, is overrated and so on. Until the Liverpool link they were singing his praises to the ceiling and wanted him over LVG

That's narrow minded tribal stuff.

Klopps arrival at Liverpool wont immediately concern me (as a United fan) but it will definitely mean having one eye on Anfield. He is a coach I really like and think will do well anywhere he goes. But as Baldy said earlier he wont turn it around in a season.

Van Gaal has this season and next season and then he is off. Depending on how this and next year plays out, we will have either won a title and used that position to strengthen with genuine talent and maintained strength, or its another two seasons of 3rd/4th place finishes, where a settled, upward trajectory Klopp and Liverpool can capitalise on that changeover.

chupacabra

As much as I would hate seeing Klopp at Liverpool, I am really looking forward to having him in the Premier League.

jpboard1

TheDoc wrote: »

That's narrow minded tribal stuff.

Klopps arrival at Liverpool wont immediately concern me (as a United fan) but it will definitely mean having one eye on Anfield. He is a coach I really like and think will do well anywhere he goes. But as Baldy said earlier he wont turn it around in a season.

Van Gaal has this season and next season and then he is off. Depending on how this and next year plays out, we will have either won a title and used that position to strengthen with genuine talent and maintained strength, or its another two seasons of 3rd/4th place finishes, where a settled, upward trajectory Klopp and Liverpool can capitalise on that changeover.

I would think VG might be gone this summer. Wouldn't surprise me if Ancelotti might come in then.

TheDoc

jpboard1 wrote: »

I would think VG might be gone this summer. Wouldn't surprise me if Ancelotti might come in then.

My napkin theory is that Van Gaal with United will mount some form of title challenge this year. (As unlikely or likely as that might seem depending on your view) Guardiola finishes with Bayern after this season, and takes a "sebatical". Van Gaal finishes his final season with the club as promised, and hopefully by then a title in the bag. If not, atleast there is a decent squad to work with. Guardiola then comes into take over United for a 3-4 year period.

Thats my "dream" scenario anyway. I don't buy the Guardialo to City stuff anyway. Read enough books about him and Untied had a lasting impression on him, and he was always mad eager to speak with Sir Alex at manager events. And not to mention recent revelations(although somewhat known at the time) that Pep was first choice to succeed him. Who knows what was said at the time

I don't forsee Van Gaal being so bad that is he turfed out this summer, and expect him to be there until the end of next season.

jpboard1

TheDoc wrote: »

My napkin theory is that Van Gaal with United will mount some form of title challenge this year. (As unlikely or likely as that might seem depending on your view) Guardiola finishes with Bayern after this season, and takes a "sebatical". Van Gaal finishes his final season with the club as promised, and hopefully by then a title in the bag. If not, atleast there is a decent squad to work with. Guardiola then comes into take over United for a 3-4 year period.

Thats my "dream" scenario anyway. I don't buy the Guardialo to City stuff anyway. Read enough books about him and Untied had a lasting impression on him, and he was always mad eager to speak with Sir Alex at manager events. And not to mention recent revelations(although somewhat known at the time) that Pep was first choice to succeed him. Who knows what was said at the time

I don't forsee Van Gaal being so bad that is he turfed out this summer, and expect him to be there until the end of next season.

Would be surprised to see Pep there. Would be great for the league though

Magico Gonzalez

What about Pep to Chelsea after Mou does he standard tough 3rd season disappearing act? Maybe they'll apologise to Ancelotti and invite him back?

Funny turn the thread took. The lads that moan about match threads getting derailed derail a thread about a manager getting sacked! Couldn't make it up.


Anyway, good luck to Rodgers. It has gone stale and new ideas are needed.

Very Bored

I'm afraid Liverpool fans have to take a reality check. If a Klopp or an Ancelotti goes to them then I would be very surprised. Look at the list of managers we've taken in recent years and we're no smaller a world name. In fact we've been more successful more recently and our road back to the top is not as difficult because we are still one of the three big players, at least financially, in our league. After Mourinho and until the return of Mancini we've lived on a diet of managers below the top drawer. The only reason Mancini has returned is because he has a personal connection with the club.

Equally, those who think Liverpool are not a big club are living in cloud cuckoo land. Make a list of the top twenty clubs in the world and Liverpool are still definitely amongst them, as are we. Its a big club with the potential to be enormous. But until it starts to meet some of that potential it remains too big a risk for a top drawer manager looking to keep adding trophies to his CV to keep his profile up. We're exactly the same and its the harsh reality clubs in this situation need to get used to. We're both big enough clubs to expect a manager to return the Premier League or scudetto within three years, we're not good enough to guarantee it though. And that makes us too big a danger for a manager commanding the top salaries.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Check out the redcafe thread, suddenly Klopp is likely to fail, is overrated and so on. Until the Liverpool link they were singing his praises to the ceiling and wanted him over LVG

Red Cafe like RAWK attracts many clowns with extreme views. Probably not the best places to find opinions

martyos121

The most ironic thing about the sacking of Rodgers, is that his replacement will be a man with great character.

For anyone that doesn't think Klopp will be the next boss, he's 3/1 NOT to be the next Liverpool manager on betfair

Fill your boots, no limit

Allyall

Brendan Rodgers Statement

"I am, of course, incredibly disappointed to be leaving Liverpool Football Club. It has been both an honour and a privilege to manage one of the game’s great clubs for the last three years.
“I have worked every day to represent the club to the best of my ability, to develop both individual players and a team that the club’s magnificent fans can be proud of. There have been some very memorable moments during my time at Liverpool and I would like to thank all of the players for their hard work and commitment. The current squad is one in transition, but they have some real talent and are showing a strong sense of togetherness. I expect to see them continue to grow and develop over the coming weeks and I wish them and my successor well for the rest of the season.

“Liverpool has a magnificent football heritage and I have nothing but respect and admiration for the history, tradition and values that make the city and the club so exceptional. As well as my players, I would like to thank everyone connected with the club; Fenway Sports Group, the Liverpool Directors, in particular Ian Ayre, my coaching staff, the staff throughout the club, the volunteers, the Academy staff and its young players and of course the amazing Liverpool fans for their unwavering support, passion and dedication which has made my time at the club so special.

“Finally, I would like to give a special mention to John W. Henry, Tom Werner and Mike Gordon. They gave me this great opportunity and even though we will no longer be working together I am sure our relationship and friendship will continue into the future.”

martyos121

rarnes1 wrote: »

For anyone that doesn't think Klopp will be the next boss, he's 3/1 NOT to be the next Liverpool manager on betfair

Fill your boots, no limit

Put a tenner down on that.

It's a win-win if I ever saw one.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

Anyone who doubts what Klopp has achieved in his career either has some ulterior motive or is very ignorant.

:rolleyes:

Or maybe they have been watching football for more than ten minutes and so have a little perspective on the role of the manager and how easy it is to be flavour of the month.

I have no axe to grind with Klopp, if Liverpool are going to get anybody it might as well be him, he can certainly make a good case for himself. But you would think to read posters like you that he was some managerial genius and I'm sorry, but he ain't.

SlickRic

it's not surprising that many Utd fans are saying Klopp's overrated. it's football tribalism at its least subtle. many can't see a good appointment for what it is when it involves a club they hate.

the narrative in many people's heads is that 'Liverpool are shíte'. Therefore, the extension of that is that they can't get a proven, top quality manager.

i just hope those now denouncing Klopp can even take a second to step back, be objective, and say to themselves that this would be a top quality appointment. you don't have to admit it. you don't have to post it. i wouldn't want you to sully yourself by having to say anything remotely positive about anything Liverpool has done.

I just hope you're honest with yourself, even for a moment.

it'd be sad if your hate was so deep that even that was impossible.

Magico Gonzalez

bucketybuck wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Or maybe they have been watching football for more than ten minutes and so have a little perspective on the role of the manager and how easy it is to be flavour of the month.

I have no axe to grind with Klopp, if Liverpool are going to get anybody it might as well be him, he can certainly make a good case for himself. But you would think to read posters like you that he was some managerial genius and I'm sorry, but he ain't.

He's had a very impressive track record in a short period of time, which demands much more respect than the likes of you are able to afford. Partisan football chat is often best ignored, it comes from a daft place where crests and team colours blind any kind of objectivity available.

That said, I'm more of an Ancelotti fan, but would be very happy with either.

I would be interested to hear of any other manager's who have won a league which at the time included one of Bayern Munich, Barca, Real or PSG (one of the real powers of the Euro leagues) of the modern era and also got a team to the CL final. The only other i can think of is Simeone.

Kind of makes a mockery of trite statements like "you would think to read posters like you that he was some managerial genius and I'm sorry, but he ain't"

In my opinion, at least.

bad2dabone

From the guardian:

Liverpool are no longer an elite European club. Their recent domestic record is one League Cup since 2006. When a coach of Klopp’s calibre is available, and attracted by the prospect of revitalising a historic club, that club has to act.

I think this is accurate.
I'd be jealous to see him at Liverpool but also intrigued.
His Dortmund teams were exiting and the Man himself is great entertainment and very likeable.

bucketybuck

Its seem I cannot have an opinion on a manager without it being dismissed as "partisan" and unfounded. :rolleyes: God forbid I repeat the view of Klopp that I have offered up more than once and long before he ever was linked with Liverpool.