Jury Service

Alan2013

Hi all,

I'm hoping that you can help with a query that I have in relation to my father and his summons for jury service.

He is 63 years old and his company which he ran single handedly for nearly 35 years closed around two years ago. Since then, he has essentially retired and has survived financially with assistance from family and gambling on a small scale semi professional basis.

As he keeping with his age, he is not as mobile as he once was, and this has left housebound to a certain degree.

Anyway, my question is that he received a summons for jury service last week, and replied to the registrar asking to be excused due to being self employed. He recieved a letter yesterday from the court service looking for further documentation to back up his self employment. Can anyone advise on what he can provide the registrar to prove his self employment?

Many thanks

Alan

irishgeo

Alan2013 wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm hoping that you can help with a query that I have in relation to my father and his summons for jury service.

He is 63 years old and his company which he ran single handedly for nearly 35 years closed around two years ago. Since then, he has essentially retired and has survived financially with assistance from family and gambling on a small scale semi professional basis.

As he keeping with his age, he is not as mobile as he once was, and this has left housebound to a certain degree.

Anyway, my question is that he received a summons for jury service last week, and replied to the registrar asking to be excused due to being self employed. He recieved a letter yesterday from the court service looking for further documentation to back up his self employment. Can anyone advise on what he can provide the registrar to prove his self employment?

Many thanks

Alan

How's he self employed if the business closed 2 years ago. You should just get a doctor to say he is not fit to attend.

Alan2013

Thanks for your reply, Irishgeo.

While he is not strictly self employed in the company sense of the term, he does spend a lot of time studying and researching information to ensure a week to week income. He is fearful that any absence will cost him financially.

Also, is it ok to converse with the jury service by email, now that there is a situation with An Post?

hawkelady

You mean he studies the racing post and football pools to provide an income for the family???? Not really an excuse to be removed from jury duty , is it?

If he is unable to do it due to health then get a doctor to write s letter , otherwise he should do it. Simple

Alan2013

Thanks for your reply, Hawkelady.

As you have summarised, it probably appears quite simplistic, but this is his 'job' now and as it is written on the citizens information website;

'If you are self-employed and work alone and where your attendance at jury service may mean you cannot earn a living, you may qualify for excusal from jury service. Contact the jury office of the Court for more information.'

He tried to contact the jury office yesterday, but was unable to get through by phone.

Can anyone advise what a 'normal' self employed person or sole trader would need to provide as documentation?

johnnyskeleton

Alan2013 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, Hawkelady.

As you have summarised, it probably appears quite simplistic, but this is his 'job' now and as it is written on the citizens information website;

'If you are self-employed and work alone and where your attendance at jury service may mean you cannot earn a living, you may qualify for excusal from jury service. Contact the jury office of the Court for more information.'

He tried to contact the jury office yesterday, but was unable to get through by phone.

Can anyone advise what a 'normal' self employed person or sole trader would need to provide as documentation?

If he is a full time professional gambler then he may have to make tax returns although Im not sure at what point winnings become earnings (he should speak to an accountant). He should have accounts from this.

Otherwise, he may well have to explain the scenario in person to the county reg or possibly the Judge

Peregrinus

He can submit his tax returns for the past couple of years, showing his income from his self- employment.

Alan2013

Thanks jonnyskeleton and Peregrinus

He has been given the impression from his accountant that any earnings from gambling are tax free, as it is not considered an income or a capital gain by Revenue. Let's hope he's right, or that could be another bump in the road!!!!

Peregrinus

He could send in his tax returns for the past couple of years, showing his income from self- employment.

johnnyskeleton

Alan2013 wrote: »

Thanks jonnyskeleton and Peregrinus

He has been given the impression from his accountant that any earnings from gambling are tax free, as it is not considered an income or a capital gain by Revenue. Let's hope he's right, or that could be another bump in the road!!!!

Im sure his accountant can give him a letter to that effect, might do the job

Peregrinus

Alan2013 wrote: »

Thanks jonnyskeleton and Peregrinus

He has been given the impression from his accountant that any earnings from gambling are tax free, as it is not considered an income or a capital gain by Revenue. Let's hope he's right, or that could be another bump in the road!!!!

If your carrying on gambling activity with system, method and frequency to such an extent that it amounts to your trade or profession, then IIRC your earnings are taxable like any other earnings.

I'm not saying he's doing that, but if he's dealing with the revenue on the basis that gambling is not his trade or profession, he can't deal with the courts service on the basis that he is self-employed because he carries on trade as a gambler.

If he can't get a medical exemption, he should do the jury service. Attempting to get out of it may undermine his claim to tax exemption.

coffeepls

I don't think he'd have any problem getting a note from the doctor exempting him. You need to take into account that if he got picked for a jury he could be potentially in court for weeks. You said he is mostly housebound, not that mobile. Your dad is not physically able for that. Just get the doctor note.

4ensic15

Why doesn't he do what all the other liars do? Turn up and say he thinks he knows one of the witnesses in the case. He will be excused straight away.

coffeepls

I don think he's a liar - I think his dad is a 63 year old man with mobility issues.

Carawaystick

he could just not turn up and if anyone asks, say the excuse letter is in the post...

Losty Dublin

4ensic15 wrote: »

Why doesn't he do what all the other liars do? Turn up and say he thinks he knows one of the witnesses in the case. He will be excused straight away.

To do this means that he needs to turn up to the court on the day in question, be allocated to a case and then declare same. It could well take a day or two before he gets to see a witness.

witchgirl26

OP I honestly think that your dad should pursue the doctor cert as an option and not the self employed piece. I don't think that they count gambling as a business & if it is counted as such, he could be opening himself up to tax implications also.

To be honest his best bet is to ring the county registrar & talk to them about it. They are not monsters and can be quite understanding in relation to these things. I've had to refuse jury duty before (college exams the same week) & they were good about it.

Thargor

Peregrinus wrote: »

If your carrying on gambling activity with system, method and frequency to such an extent that it amounts to your trade or profession, then IIRC your earnings are taxable like any other earnings.

O/T sorry but is that true?

Peregrinus

Thargor wrote: »

O/T sorry but is that true?

Yes. A single gambling transaction is not an event subject to income tax, but if you are engaged in the trade or profession of gambling, your profits from that trade or profession are taxable. This is the basis on which bookies and other professional gamblers are subject to income tax. If the OP's father were to claim to be "self-employed" as a gambler, then how would he be different from a bookie or a professional gambler?

Mr. Incognito

Thargor wrote: »

O/T sorry but is that true?

http://www.taxandlegal.ie/ITRQ42014.pdf

A good synopsis

nuckeythompson

I got a summons and wrote back the following, I just watched the judicial system rape Stephen Avery , I also believe the gardai to be corrupt. I swear to god they wrote back and excused me

Pkiernan

People who refuse to serve on a jury should lose their right to vote.

nuckeythompson

I consider myself to be unfit due to my hatred for AGS

MarkAnthony

nuckeythompson wrote: »

I got a summons and wrote back the following, I just watched the judicial system rape Stephen Avery , I also believe the gardai to be corrupt. I swear to god they wrote back and excused me

Stephen Avery was a victim of the second miscarriage of justice due to, imho, a tainted jury. It's people who are perfectly capable of serving on a jury getting themselves excluded for spirious reasons that make that relatively easy to happen.

For the avoidance of doubt I am indeed blaming miscarriages of justice, like the one I believe Stephen Avery suffered on people like you.

enfant terrible

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Stephen Avery was a victim of the second miscarriage of justice due to, imho, a tainted jury. It's people who are perfectly capable of serving on a jury getting themselves excluded for spirious reasons that make that relatively easy to happen.

For the avoidance of doubt I am indeed blaming miscarriages of justice, like the one I believe Stephen Avery suffered on people like you.

I think Avery is guilty.

MarkAnthony

enfant terrible wrote: »

I think Avery is guilty.

I actually don't think he is but legally I'd respectfully submit you'd have to be out of your mind to believe that there wasn't reasonable doubt in that trial. :pac: