Donating to charity instead of penalty points

dunworth1

I just seen an article on Joe.Ie which talks about people donating to charity instead of getting points
http://www.joe.ie/news/this-county-has-the-highest-number-of-penalty-point-dodgers-in-ireland/513538

I'm wondering how exactly does this work do people go in front of the judge with a receipt from a charity

Or do they ask the judge can they donate to charity instead.

I actually think that this isn't a bad alternative to points as it's going to a good cause rather than into the government's pockets

jimmycrackcorm

dunworth1 wrote:

I actually think that this isn't a bad alternative to points as it's going to a good cause rather than into the government's pockets

It would suit rich people unless the Swedish or Finnish (not sure which but where fines match ability to pay) model was applied.

Zambia

dunworth1 wrote: »

I just seen an article on Joe.Ie which talks about people donating to charity instead of getting points
http://www.joe.ie/news/this-county-has-the-highest-number-of-penalty-point-dodgers-in-ireland/513538

I'm wondering how exactly does this work do people go in front of the judge with a receipt from a charity

Or do they ask the judge can they donate to charity instead.

I actually think that this isn't a bad alternative to points as it's going to a good cause rather than into the government's pockets

Its a terrible idea. In essence a person with good means can keep driving like an utter a%%wipe.

dunworth1

Zambia wrote: »

Its a terrible idea. In essence a person with good means can keep driving like an utter a%%wipe.

that happens anyway points or no points.

maybe it should only extend to your first offence as more of a warning to you
that next time it'll be points

Zambia

dunworth1 wrote: »

that happens anyway points or no points.

maybe it should only extend to your first offence as more of a warning to you
that next time it'll be points

If you rack up enough points you lose your licence.

Then if you are found driving you face those penalties.

It's not great but it's all we've got

3DataModem

The reason we have points is so the first offence doesn't really matter, and you have a few "chances" before being really sanctioned.

The people who are buying their way out of points are doing so because they already have a fair few.

hullaballoo

3DataModem wrote: »

The reason we have points is so the first offence doesn't really matter, and you have a few "chances" before being really sanctioned.

I disagree that points act as a get-out-of-jail free card, as your post suggests. Points are a penal sanction and have a real impact for those of us who report them to our insurers as we are supposed to. An increased premium is the same as a fine for all intents and purposes.

The one good thing about the points system is that it is a non-permanent sanction. They are expunged from your record when they expire and it is as though they never existed. Even insurers are not supposed to take into account expired penalty points.

On the other hand, the points system is incorrectly administered here and that stems from government implementing stupid regulations whereby holding your phone while driving is 5 points but speeding is only 3, as well as improper systems for ensuring those onto whose licences points ought to be applied are actually applied and those from whose licences points ought to be expunged are actually expunged.

Fred Swanson

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hullaballoo

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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That's why I said they're not "supposed to." They do what they like, though.

Victor

hullaballoo wrote: »

I disagree that points act as a get-out-of-jail free card, as your post suggests.

So, how many people have gone to 'jail' for having points (only)?

Points are a penal sanction

Only when applied by a judge. The international consensus is that penalty points and similar schemes are administrative sanctions, not penal ones.

punisher5112

Points system is a terrible one.

Speeding 3points and €80


Use your phone 3 points and €60


I thought using phone was meant to be as bad as drink driving or worse.


I believe it should be a fine only but be higher costing and increase the worse the penalty and for real bad offences licence confiscation on the spot along with the car.

Victor

punisher5112 wrote: »

I believe it should be a fine only

There would then be no incentive for rich people to obey the law.

Fred Swanson

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adamshare01

If you rack up enough points you lose your licence.

NinjaTruncs

The penalty points system donating to over bloated charities just seems wrong IMO. And as others have said it won't be a deterrent to well off people unless the Finnish system is used where the fine is relative to your income.

hullaballoo

Victor wrote: »

So, how many people have gone to 'jail' for having points (only)?Only when applied by a judge. The international consensus is that penalty points and similar schemes are administrative sanctions, not penal ones.

A sanction is a penalty and a penalty is a penal sanction. It's an administrative process but it's a penal sanction. Penalty points.

They are never applied by a judge, either.

Zambia

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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This is true however money can not magically make the case go away.

If there is a flaw in the case a good brief may see it and get you off but this is a traffic matter and employing a high priced barrister/lawyer/solicitor could simply be you fining yourself.

Example

Mr Smith is observed by Garda Jones a passenger in a unmarked car, driving his BMW 3 series on the Navan road, Garda JONES observes SMITH talking on the phone from the Blanchardstown exit to the M50 exit city bound.

Garda JONEs can describe SMITHS distinct Iphone in a spiderman case. He can also recall SMITH talking on the phone.

Can anyone see a way a solicitor can introduce reasonable doubt to assist SMITH*?

*SMITH will lose his licence if found guilty he has 11 points deducted in the last year.

It should also be noted Garda JONES has an perfect work and court history.

Fred Swanson

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Zambia

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Seriously can that happen? No points incurred