Details of the New Metro North for Dublin

monument

Key line from the Department of Transport: "new Metro North will be a 16.5km light rail line connecting St Stephen’s Green to Swords, via Dublin Airport. It is expected that construction of the project would commence in 2021 with a view to delivery by 2026/27"

It's a cutdown version of metro north which will need a new railway order (planning permission). It was first called LR7 or Optimised Metro North in the Fingal Transport Study.

Strange mapped details here, if correct, including a DCU stop north of Collins Ave:



LARGER VERSION: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/New_Metro_North_-_Map_and_Key_Facts.pdf

Details from NTA:

"new Metro North, as recommended by the National Transport Authority will operate 60 metre trams, providing a passenger capacity of 9,900 people per direction per hour. Station provision in the core city centre will be limited to St Stephens Green and Upper O’Connell Street as the current red and green lines (including Luas Cross City) offer plenty of central stop options."

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/new-metro-north-will-best-address-future-transport-needs-in-swords-and-fingal-region-nta-new-line-to-run-underground-in-city-centre-and-to-serve-airport/

"Key facts":

A light rail system extending from a new stop at Estuary, Swords to connect with Dublin Airport and on to the city centre.
› Fourteen new stops, six of which are underground stops.
› Overall length of the scheme is 17kms.
› Frequency of up to 30 trams per hour per direction - a tram every two minutes in each direction.
› Trams will be 60 metres long - 50% longer than current Luas trams.
› Will carry over 30 million passengers per year.
› Time from O’Connell Street to the Airport will be 19 minutes.
› Cost is approximately €2.4 billion (excluding VAT).
› Comparative benefit to cost analysis gives a benefit to cost ratio of 1.5:1.
› Provides a fast, frequent, direct rail connection from Dublin Airport into the heart of Dublin City.
› Delivers high capacity public transport to the Swords and Fingal area, which is one of the fasting growing areas of the country.
› Brings a large number of homes within easy access of the city centre and the airport.
› Connects with several third level institutions - Dublin City University, Trinity College, St. Patrick’s College.
› Serves several hospitals - Mater Hospital, Mater Private Hospital, Temple Street Children’s Hospital, Rotunda Hospital.
› Provides convenient access from North County Dublin and the city centre to Croke Park.
› Will generate over 3,500 jobs during construction phase.

Link to final Fingal report not working in above NTA link, so unclear if it's a new doc or not.

Jamie2k9

Shame they are going to spend the next 6 years doing nothing....we will have it re announced before the election in 2021 as not a single bit of work will be done.

monument

From the earlier Department of Transport press release:


“As one of the fastest growing areas in the country, Fingal registered the third highest population growth rate in the country (at 13.9%) in Census 2011. The area has been recorded as having close to four times the population growth rate of Dublin City and almost double the population growth rates of the other Dublin counties. A recent review of house planning permissions by the Dublin planning authorities also identified that half of the available sites with planning permission granted, or in the process of being granted, are located in Fingal, with a large proportion centred around Swords. Overall, a large amount of Dublin’s future population growth will occur in Fingal, with Swords representing the centre of that growth, making the delivery of a transport solution that will meet the transport needs of the region essential.

“Based on the outcome of the recent North Dublin Transport Study undertaken by the National Transport Authority, the Government has decided that a revised Metro North scheme (entitled new Metro North) is the most appropriate public transport solution to address the transport needs of the Swords/Airport, City Centre Corridor.

“This will provide a high capacity public transport link along the City Centre/Airport/Swords corridor which has been an objective of Government for some time.

“The revised lower cost new Metro North will be a 16.5km light rail line connecting St Stephen’s Green to Swords, via Dublin Airport. It is expected that construction of the project would commence in 2021 with a view to delivery by 2026/27. Almost 8.5km of the route will run in a tunnel from St. Stephen’s Green to Griffith Avenue and under the airport. The route will serve key destinations such as Drumcondra, the Mater Hospital, DCU and Ballymun in addition to Dublin Airport and Swords offering a journey time of 19 minutes from O’Connell St to the Airport and 31 minutes from O’Connell Street to Swords Estuary.

“It is estimated that this project will cost €2.4 billion (excluding VAT).

“The main cost reduction elements of new Metro North are:

Reduced tunnelling;
A reduced length of elevated structure by surface running in Swords;
One less city centre station, by replacing O’Connell Bridge and Parnell Square stations with a single station on O’Connell Street;
Smaller stations with shorter platforms, matching the reduced length vehicles.
“The comprehensive assessment by the NTA concluded that this is the appropriate public transport proposal to address the transport needs of this corridor over the longer term as it:

Generates the highest level of transport benefits of all of the options assessed and has the highest number of additional public transport trips in the am peak travel period;
Is the most economically advantageous scheme, delivering the highest benefit to cost ratio of all of the options assessed;
Provides a new strategic public transport corridor, avoiding reliance on either the existing heavy rail lines or the Luas Cross City line which is under construction;
Delivers a connection right into the heart of the city, serving O’Connell Street and St. Stephen’s Green;
Retains the opportunity to extend Luas Cross City to Finglas, which would not be feasible if the alternative Luas option examined by the NTA were selected;
Generates the highest level of highway and public transport benefits, demonstrating that it is the scheme most likely to encourage modal shift from car to public transport;
Provides a maximum level of accessibility to socially deprived areas within the study area and opens up connectivity to employment, health and education facilities;
Could potentially be extended southwards in the longer term to alleviate high travel demand on the Luas Green Line, and ultimately form a complete north-south metro corridor traversing both the north and south city; and
Retains a large proportion of the value of the almost €170 million invested to date in the Metro North project.

McAlban

monument wrote: »

Strange mapped details here, if correct, including a DCU stop north of Collins Ave

I doubt it, it's about 500m south of Ballymun. The DCU Stop *Should* and was planned to be on the R108 at Albert College Grove...

But then again, it should be underground too :mad:

aliveandkicking

They seem to have taken that map down. Can anyone here who has it upload it somewhere? Thanks

McAlban

aliveandkicking wrote: »

They seem to have taken that map down. Can anyone here who has it upload it somewhere? Thanks

Just take the s out of the https://

TheChrisD

aliveandkicking wrote: »

They seem to have taken that map down. Can anyone here who has it upload it somewhere? Thanks

Uncle Ben

Will never happen. Pre-election hype and bull.

Van.Bosch

Is this optimised metro north or another slightly different metro?

Edit: I see it is LR7 or Optimised Metro North.

the dark phantom

All plans and no action/ on continuous repeat

Kermit.de.frog

Was it the 70's or 80's that a Japanese company offered to build an entire monorail or metro system for Dublin for free so long as they could operate it and take the profits and DCC said "no"?

Nothing has changed. They are not serious about renovating this city and still less serious about providing proper transport.

Dublin is basically run by country tds who treat it like a county town.

tayto lover

Would love to see this happening.
Hope it's not just another pre-election stunt from FG though.

Larbre34

I would have thought they might at least target 2023 for an airport rail-link, given the interest in bidding for the Rugby World Cup that year.

Without a rail link from Dublin Airport (40 million passengers by then), they may forget that bid entirely.

100,000 people a day on Aircoaches, taxis and the demon private car. What a farce.

_Kaiser_

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Dublin is basically run by country tds who think that the Dubs get too much as it is!

FYP

This is pure electioneering bull. 5/6 years before they even start on it? Who's the say the incoming Government at that point won't have another idea instead?

aliveandkicking

Does the Drumcondra stop now not even interchange with the Maynooth line? Also the O'Connell St stop seems to have gone further north so Tara St Dart stop is almost a kilometre walk away meaning it is not even a possible interchange. Jesus wept.

dublinman1990

The one thing which stands out in that document is that the length of the new MN trains will be 60 metres long instead of a proposed length of 90 metres when FF and the RPA last proposed it under the Transport 21 plan.

We also don't know where will the new revised stop on O'Connell Street will be located when it is completed.

Also 2021 does seem like a very long amount of time to get this project to begin at the earliest opportunity.

Does anyone know what the total cost of the project will amount to including VAT?

loyatemu

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Also 2021 does seem like a very long amount of time to get this project to begin at the earliest opportunity.

it's so far in the future that this announcement is meaningless - they might as well have announced the building of Dart Underground starting in 2025 and the Tuskar Tunnel for 2040 while they were at it

ClovenHoof

All lies, every word of it from our rotten pathological lying anti-Dublin politicians.

strandroad

I'll believe it when I see it!

end of the road

mhge wrote: »

I'll believe it when I see it!

well, we will never see it.

Infini

What a heap of crap. Seriously why build this seperately from both Luas and Heavy Rail itself? Its a complete waste of money and time. Probably gonna end up mothballed again anyways since they wont be doing any construction for years anyways. Worst thing about this is it doesnt make use of EXISTING rail infrastructure. Least if it had been a Dart Line or Luas Line even they could be using stock from either but a metro? 16.5 KM up and down and completely seperate alltogether. Fine Gobshyte at its finest once again.

A couple of the posts on this thread are almost pathologically naive.

There is only one single thing we need to know from a public transport policy perspective.....

.....humans will ****ing walk on Mars before this ever becomes anything other than a fantasy.

Terrontress

Larbre34 wrote: »

I would have thought they might at least target 2023 for an airport rail-link, given the interest in bidding for the Rugby World Cup that year.

Without a rail link from Dublin Airport (40 million passengers by then), they may forget that bid entirely.

100,000 people a day on Aircoaches, taxis and the demon private car. What a farce.

If they could extend from Estuary to Donabate, you'd have a link to the airport which would link to the whole East Coast from Coleraine to Rosslare.

stereomatic

I presume the rail gauge is International Standard as opposed to Irish gauge due to the Luas using International Standard therefore any link to the railway network and Dart would be unfeasable

International=1435 mm
Irish=1600 mm

loyatemu

Deleted User wrote: »

.....humans will ****ing walk on Mars before this ever becomes anything other than a fantasy.

President Trump - "We will put a man on Mars by 2025"
Enda Kenny - "We won't build a short light rail line by 2025"

loyatemu

stereomatic wrote: »

I presume the rail gauge is International Standard as opposed to Irish gauge due to the Luas using International Standard therefore any link to the railway network and Dart would be unfeasable

International=1435 mm
Irish=1600 mm

well that's not a huge problem, the Luas works perfectly well at European gauge.

The issue (should this thing ever be built) is that it doesn't intersect with the existing Dart or rail network anywhere useful. If you arrive into Hueston on a train, how do you get to the airport - you've still got to get a Luas and then a Metro and it'll probably still be quicker to just get the bus. Ditto from Pearse or Connolly - Dart Underground would've solved all that...

stereomatic

The construction will be interesting when they get to the Airport

Uriel.

Notwithstanding the fact that I highly doubt this will ever be built but the journey t9mes from Swords don't look particularly great. What are we looking at, 35 to 40 mins to get from Swords to stephen's Green?

_Kaiser_

Watching the 9pm News here and if I wasn't convinced earlier, I am now - it's complete electioneering bull.. watching Enda, Joan, Brendan and Paschal walking towards the camera with a big sign "45,000 Jobs" :rolleyes:

I mean, this Government will go to the polls within the next 6 months - they're in no position to be promising anything at this point.. nevermind for 2021!

Yet no doubt this stunt will still get them a few votes from those who didn't learn the lesson last time round!

crushproof

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I mean, this Government will go to the polls within the next 6 months - they're in no position to be promising anything at this point.. nevermind for 2021!

Yet no doubt this stunt will still get them a few votes from those who didn't learn the lesson last time round!

Unfortunately I have come to realise that "those" people are seemingly the majority of the voting public. No one in this country seems willing to vote for a massive change in government and how tax money is spent.
Try explaining why this is a farce to people in work tomorrow and you'll get blank stares and the "Ah well sure" shrug of the shoulders.

Banjoxed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Watching the 9pm News here and if I wasn't convinced earlier, I am now - it's complete electioneering bull.. watching Enda, Joan, Brendan and Paschal walking towards the camera with a big sign "45,000 Jobs" :rolleyes:

I mean, this Government will go to the polls within the next 6 months - they're in no position to be promising anything at this point.. nevermind for 2021!

Yet no doubt this stunt will still get them a few votes from those who didn't learn the lesson last time round!

How many glossy brochures since 1975 have been produced at this stage with contradictory and competing maps?

Dumb politics to pretend that pie in the sky will indeed be on people's plates, by-and-by.

KingBrian2

loyatemu wrote: »

President Trump - "We will put a man on Mars by 2025"
Enda Kenny - "We won't build a short light rail line by 2025"

tobsey

McAlban wrote: »

I doubt it, it's about 500m south of Ballymun. The DCU Stop *Should* and was planned to be on the R108 at Albert College Grove...

But then again, it should be underground too :mad:

There's no need for that section to be underground. The ballymun road is a 6 lane dual carriageway that is much larger than what's needed. There's no traffic issues on it outbound and the inbound traffic is caused by the bottleneck at Griffith avenue. It makes perfect sense to bring it up overground just after Griffith avenue.

IE 222

Complete waste of money. What benefits are we getting from this. Once you reach/dumped at st. Stephen's green we need to transfer to a bus. Why not just send the buses to the airport in the first place build a bus aras in dublin airport be much cheaper option and stop Codding everyone.

ClovenHoof

IE 222 wrote: »

Complete waste of money. What benefits are we getting from this. Once you reach/dumped at st. Stephen's green we need to transfer to a bus. Why not just send the buses to the airport in the first place build a bus aras in dublin airport be much cheaper option and stop Codding everyone.

Don't worry, they only build glossy brochures in this country.

newacc2015

Can someone explain the logic of the stops in Northwood and Daristown? Northwood is literally a medium sized development at most with a small hotel. Its a fair walk to Ballymun. Yet it doesnt deserve a stop. Daristown is a graveyard and has no potential for development as its in Fingal and they wont allow anything really to be built at the airport. We are probably adding 3/4 mins on the Metro journey to accommodate 5k residents at most. With no real potential for these areas to be developed.

Im totally for MN. But IMO this version isnt even worth considering. The stops are total BS. They are too far from existing commuter lines and the DART. The Daristown and Northwood stops are pretty useless. The trains are too short. A Luas sized train will be too cramped compared to a regular U-Bahn you find in Germany.

Im not going to lobby anyone or lose sleep over it. As its not going to happen

Irish Steve

The only valid use I can see for the Dardistown area would be if a really decent park and ride was built there to accommodate the additional parking that will be needed for the airport area, and also to facilitate people who still won't have a decent access to public transport (the rest of Fingal and South Meath), to help them get into town

That said, given the track record of the wasters that are flying this election kite, if it happens in my lifetime, it will be a miracle.

At the risk of going off thread, perhaps I should ask what's planned for Thornton Hall, perhaps they should use some of that land for something useful, given the money that's been wasted on that site.

xper

newacc2015 wrote: »

Can someone explain the logic of the stops in Northwood and Daristown? Northwood is literally a medium sized development at most with a small hotel. Its a fair walk to Ballymun. Yet it doesnt deserve a stop.

It seems we are so unused to the idea of putting in infrastructure ahead of building homes and workplaces, some of us don't recognise it when it's in front of us. The Northwood stop will eventually see lots of development in the surrounding area - a good deal of it before MN is ever built by the looks of it!

Daristown is a graveyard and has no potential for development as its in Fingal and they wont allow anything really to be built at the airport.

Dardistown is a park and ride stop. It's in the original MN plan as such (plus as interchange with the late Metro West). It's also co-located with the depot. And the Fingal local area plan does zone commecial (but not residential) development in the area around the stop if and when it's built.

Im totally for MN. But IMO this version isnt even worth considering

Indeed, this plan is a disaster. The 60m platforms idea alone actually makes me glad that there is no danger of it being built anytime soon. Simply not fit for purpose. No doubt it will go through several other shake-ups through the next two (or more) elections before any digging happens. I wonder what Varadkar actually thinks about it, given his time in the ministry and that he probably sees himself in the top job in FG by the time 2021 rolls around.

Terrontress

stereomatic wrote: »

I presume the rail gauge is International Standard as opposed to Irish gauge due to the Luas using International Standard therefore any link to the railway network and Dart would be unfeasable

International=1435 mm
Irish=1600 mm

As long as it's a simple transfer, timed to coincide with each others movements, then the differing gauge is not an issue.

petronius

loyatemu wrote: »

well that's not a huge problem, the Luas works perfectly well at European gauge.

The issue (should this thing ever be built) is that it doesn't intersect with the existing Dart or rail network anywhere useful. If you arrive into Hueston on a train, how do you get to the airport - you've still got to get a Luas and then a Metro and it'll probably still be quicker to just get the bus. Ditto from Pearse or Connolly - Dart Underground would've solved all that...

It would be excellent if it were to link up with the northern line (at donabate) ok that the guage mean its a separate "train" but changing at donabate would enable traffic to Dublin airport to come from Belfast, Newry,Dundalk, Drogheda, and on the new improved dart-ify-ied Balbriggan line

Carawaystick

Irish Steve wrote: »

At the risk of going off thread, perhaps I should ask what's planned for Thornton Hall, perhaps they should use some of that land for something useful, given the money that's been wasted on that site.

Ah In fairness, they dug a big hole there and built a bridge over it :eek:

Jamie2k9

newacc2015 wrote: »

Can someone explain the logic of the stops in Northwood and Daristown? Northwood is literally a medium sized development at most with a small hotel. Its a fair walk to Ballymun. Yet it doesnt deserve a stop. Daristown is a graveyard and has no potential for development as its in Fingal and they wont allow anything really to be built at the airport. We are probably adding 3/4 mins on the Metro journey to accommodate 5k residents at most. With no real potential for these areas to be developed.

Im totally for MN. But IMO this version isnt even worth considering. The stops are total BS. They are too far from existing commuter lines and the DART. The Daristown and Northwood stops are pretty useless. The trains are too short. A Luas sized train will be too cramped compared to a regular U-Bahn you find in Germany.

Im not going to lobby anyone or lose sleep over it. As its not going to happen

I suspect there will be a few P&R facilities along the route. A lot of students live in Northwood so will be useful for traveling to DCU.

On a separate note when it's at ground level is it segregated?

Jamie2k9

IE 222 wrote: »

Complete waste of money. What benefits are we getting from this. Once you reach/dumped at st. Stephen's green we need to transfer to a bus. Why not just send the buses to the airport in the first place build a bus aras in dublin airport be much cheaper option and stop Codding everyone.

Would you like dedicated metro lines to people's houes, Irish Rail dump passengers at Heuston/Connolly/Pearse and they have to change to bus/Luas/

How is it different?

loyatemu

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I suspect there will be a few P&R facilities along the route.

not necessary - self-driving cars will be the norm by the time this is built.

expectationlost

Sen Daragh O'Brien says for less than 20% saving over 10 years, the Minister is trading 42% passenger capacity and the option to expand future passenger capacity by 67%. https://www.fiannafail.ie/scaled-down-metro-north-plan-could-mean-losing-up-to-67-capacity-ff-2/

if only he sourced those numbers

ghostdancer

going to O'Connell Street and not over to Connolly station seems utterly stupid to me.

people flying into the airport and wanting to get trains to the West/North from Connolly are expected to make a 15min walk with cases to Connolly station?
people wanting to get a Luas to Heuston will have change off the Metro, then onto the cross-city line for 1 stop, then onto the Red Line to Heuston?
added to that the obvious link up with DART services at Connolly.

why aren't they running it by Connolly Station?

goingnowhere

Because it was designed to expect DART underground to built at the same time

loyatemu

ghostdancer wrote: »

people wanting to get a Luas to Heuston will have change off the Metro, then onto the cross-city line for 1 stop, then onto the Red Line to Heuston?

hopefully as part of the redesign they'll consider a link (underground travelator?) from the O'Connell St Metro stop to the Abbey St luas stop, but it's still 2 changes to get to from the Airport to anywhere on the Dart line, which is really poor planning.

Icepick

loyatemu wrote: »

hopefully as part of the redesign they'll consider a link (underground travelator?) from the O'Connell St Metro stop to the Abbey St luas stop, but it's still 2 changes to get to from the Airport to anywhere on the Dart line, which is really poor planning.

see the post above yours

BoatMad

Don't worry about the details it will never get built as is. We've got millions in consultant fees to waste first and at the next crunch for capital money , it will be deferred

dublinman1990

It is just incredible that FF/Greens/PD's had some big authority to announce a plan for MN and DU, have railway orders and planning permission nearly there for both of them to start right away if they wanted to do so.

And FG/Lab have the tenacity to scrap the original plan and modify it slightly to appease upcoming voters in the next GE.

I have to say that I am not surprised that the plan is there for them to win next year and in 2021. But will the voters all around the country (particularly in Dublin) even listen to them. The overwhelming cynic in me would say ''yes probably but with only a whisker''.

The miracle worker in me will say not a hope in a handbasket. But the scenario of this capital plan being launched a few days ago, amidst all of the other issues within FG/Lab have gone through already, is really tempting for them to lose this next election.