Dublin City Marathon 2015

Slow_Runner

Previous threads:
2014: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=90509613
2013: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83531332

Haven’t seen another thread on this so with just 4 week to go said I’d open one. Let the fun and soon to be taper madness commence. This will be my fourth marathon (3rd DCM) and hopefully I can shake the sub 4 mill that’s around my neck. A 1:38 in Phoenix Park has me hoping for a sub 3:50 but I know from experience (and last Saturday’s long run) that may be a push.

Following the previous couple of year’s threads I’ve notice a few things that hopefully won’t repeat themselves:

Taper madness is really a thing! People will get really really antsy in the lead up to the race.

If someone comes on asking “Should I run DCM as I’ve missed x weeks training/only started training last week” then the answer will always be NO. It’s only a race and there are plenty of alternatives so if you’re not ready don’t do it – simples.

There is always endless debates about should you carry water/gels etc. My motto is: If you trained a certain way and are comfortable then do it that way, it’s your race and at the end of the day you’re only answering to yourself.

Beer never tasted so good than after a marathon.

Advice will be given, advice may or may not be heeded

Is it just me or do people get really bogged down mentally around this stage of training? What I mean is do you get sick of all the training at this stage just before the taper? I always get like this around now, then the second I cross the finish line I’m thinking of the next one.

So, who’s in, who’s pacing this year, what is everyone hoping for?

annapr

As of today, I'm in

hoping for... better than last year! :eek:

bonaparte2

I see all the Irish and World Elites were running in Berlin yesterday. I wonder how much slower is Dublin than Berlin for a runner at 2.`15, 3.15 or 4.15.
I reckon the new course is a lot slower than the previous one. I found the drag up through the park to be a killer last year and don't think the freakish weather can be blamed for all of the carnage.

For myself I'll definitely plan on a negative split .

average_runner

bonaparte2 wrote: »

I see all the Irish and World Elites were running in Berlin yesterday. I wonder how much slower is Dublin than Berlin for a runner at 2.`15, 3.15 or 4.15.
I reckon the new course is a lot slower than the previous one. I found the drag up through the park to be a killer last year and don't think the freakish weather can be blamed for all of the carnage.

For myself I'll definitely plan on a negative split .

You don't have the long drag up chesterfield this time, you are coming in via the north circular rd

ultrapercy

bonaparte2 wrote: »

I see all the Irish and World Elites were running in Berlin yesterday. I wonder how much slower is Dublin than Berlin for a runner at 2.`15, 3.15 or 4.15.
I reckon the new course is a lot slower than the previous one. I found the drag up through the park to be a killer last year and don't think the freakish weather can be blamed for all of the carnage.

For myself I'll definitely plan on a negative split .

I would estimate the difference to be about a minute an hour, so for a 3 hour runner Berlin would be at least 3 mins quicker than Dublin.

annapr

ultrapercy wrote: »

I would estimate the difference to be about a minute an hour, so for a 3 hour runner Berlin would be at least 3 mins quicker than Dublin.

That's a big difference, is that just because Berlin is so flat? I had heard estimates of 2-3 mins before (from 3:30 ish runner).

ultrapercy

annapr wrote: »

That's a big difference, is that just because Berlin is so flat? I had heard estimates of 2-3 mins before (from 3:30 ish runner).

Ya the course is very flat, a couple of very minor pulls but nothing that can be described as a hill. Marathons are all about fuel efficency and conservation and hills really blow out the fuel stores. The road surface in Berlin is perfect, smooth with no camber. In Dublin there is a lot of sections that have poor or uneven surface this is also a factor. There is an awfull lot of long straight road in Berlin hardly any turns where as Dublin has a lot of 90 degree turns. All these factors and also ideal weather conditions this year make Berlin that much faster. Dublin is a great marathon and every bit as well organised with an atmosphere that is as good as Berlin relative to the size of the cities but for targeting fast times a race like Berlin is the best choice.

annapr

ultrapercy wrote: »

Ya the course is very flat, a couple of very minor pulls but nothing that can be described as a hill. Marathons are all about fuel efficency and conservation and hills really blow out the fuel stores. The road surface in Berlin is perfect, smooth with no camber. In Dublin there is a lot of sections that have poor or uneven surface this is also a factor. There is an awfull lot of long straight road in Berlin hardly any turns where as Dublin has a lot of 90 degree turns. All these factors and also ideal weather conditions this year make Berlin that much faster. Dublin is a great marathon and every bit as well organised with an atmosphere that is as good as Berlin relative to the size of the cities but for targeting fast times a race like Berlin is the best choice.

Interesting, thanks, a lot of different factors there. Berlin can be quite warm which definitely wouldn't suit me (but then Dublin last year was too!).

One big advantage Dublin has over Berlin, from what I've heard, is the quality of the pacers! They are brilliant in Dublin, from HM to marathon.

ultrapercy

annapr wrote: »

Interesting, thanks, a lot of different factors there. Berlin can be quite warm which definitely wouldn't suit me (but then Dublin last year was too!).

One big advantage Dublin has over Berlin, from what I've heard, is the quality of the pacers! They are brilliant in Dublin, from HM to marathon.

Yes the pacers in Berlin seem to be very erratic surely where in Dublin bad pacing is an exception. On the pacing issue I believe every runner should take individual responsibility for their own race to some degree. Putting your race completely in the hands of others does not sit well with me, with the best will in the world things can still go wrong. Also in Berlin the water is in cups rather than bottles which is definitely a disadvantage. As an aside I have done 30+ marathons 4 50k and 4 100k and this is the worst I have ever felt after a race, by some distance. To be honest I'm in ribbons and not sure if Il make work this evening. Maybe it's age, over 40 now or maybe it's pb effort but I have a theory that the Berlin roads are a harder surface closer to concrete than Irish roads leading to increased impact and muscle damage. Then again maybe I'm thinking too much because I can't run!!

annapr

ultrapercy wrote: »

Yes the pacers in Berlin seem to be very erratic surely where in Dublin bad pacing is an exception. On the pacing issue I believe every runner should take individual responsibility for their own race to some degree. Putting your race completely in the hands of others does not sit well with me, with the best will in the world things can still go wrong. Also in Berlin the water is in cups rather than bottles which is definitely a disadvantage. As an aside I have done 30+ marathons 4 50k and 4 100k and this is the worst I have ever felt after a race, by some distance. To be honest I'm in ribbons and not sure if Il make work this evening. Maybe it's age, over 40 now or maybe it's pb effort but I have a theory that the Berlin roads are a harder surface closer to concrete than Irish roads leading to increased impact and muscle damage. Then again maybe I'm thinking too much because I can't run!!

Sounds like you have earned a rest!!!

agree completely re. pacing... and cups vs bottles.

ultrapercy

annapr wrote: »

Sounds like you have earned a rest!!!

agree completely re. pacing... and cups vs bottles.

A rest is needed but I have a twisty turny hilly slightly uneven but brilliant race to run I less than 4 weeks.

Slow_Runner

Any word on the elite list this year, Irish and International??

robinph

Done very little running since London, but will be back for another run around Dublin again this year. Did 2:49:44 in London, but if I can get around within half an hour of that time I'll call it a success for Dublin and will just be out to have fun.

snailsong

ultrapercy wrote: »

A rest is needed but I have a twisty turny hilly slightly uneven but brilliant race to run I less than 4 weeks.

I had a feeling you wouldn't have sense.😊
See ya there.

vanderlyle

Slow_Runner wrote: »

Any word on the elite list this year, Irish and International??

Eliud Too, last year's men's winner is running again this year. According to his FB page he's doing the Athlone 3/4 this weekend.

thomas anderson.

Is there any other way of picking up your race number bar the expo?, like getting it posted?

Was thinking of doing it after Berlin not going so well but was hoping to just travel up in the morning of the race

RayCun

thomas anderson. wrote: »

Is there any other way of picking up your race number bar the expo?, like getting it posted?

no, you have to collect at the expo.
Like most marathons - they sell space at the expo on the basis that all the people running will be at the expo to collect their numbers

youngrun

National marathon could be wide open after Berlin crew , could be a new name on the title ?

tang1

youngrun wrote: »

National marathon could be wide open after Berlin crew , could be a new name on the title ?

bazman might be a good bet, any other big Irish names possibly doing it?

dublin runner

tang1 wrote: »

bazman might be a good bet, any other big Irish names possibly doing it?

I'm not too sure of Eoin C's plan. If he were to run he'd be my favourite.

youngrun

tang1 wrote: »

bazman might be a good bet, any other big Irish names possibly doing it?

True, I guess Freddy Stuk will run it is he in the champs? paddy hamilton, eoin flynn ,callaghan .

Womens is anyones guess? Newcombe or mccarthy from cork if they are running?

Will go up to watch great race

Singer

I noticed an updated map on the website:
http://sseairtricitydublinmarathon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/SSE-AT-DM15-ROUTE-MAP_Toilets.pdf

There appear to be more water stations (11), all with toilets and first aid stations. Gels at the 16 and 21 mile water stations, Lucozade at the 9.5 mile and 13 mile water stations, and at the 22 mile cheering zone (the 1000 foot 45 degree climb of Roebuck Mountain). There are also more cheering zones (10).

Nichakhun

average_runner wrote: »

You don't have the long drag up chesterfield this time, you are coming in via the north circular rd

I think the drag up Blackhall Place and into Manor Street then Aughrim Street is possibly worse than the drag on the small piece of chesterfield avenue that is not in this years course.

TomD101

RayCun wrote: »

no, you have to collect at the expo.
Like most marathons - they sell space at the expo on the basis that all the people running will be at the expo to collect their numbers

I am not able to get to Dublin until Sunday night after 10pm.

Can I send someone in to collect the race number on my behalf?

RayCun

TomD101 wrote: »

I am not able to get to Dublin until Sunday night after 10pm.

Can I send someone in to collect the race number on my behalf?

send them a mail at office@dublinmarathon.ie to make sure
I think the person you send has to have your confirmation mail, letter of permission, and copy of your ID

Fiftyplus

Did the DM last year for first time and like many found it tough going, clocking 3.37.00 having targeted sub 3.30.00. Did the first half in 1.43.30 and bombed in the last five miles posting a positive split of 11 minutes. Probably went off a shade too quick though more likely the conditions found me out. Who would be planning a negative split this year?. I read some regard the second half of the course 'easier' than the first.

Mr Freeze

Did DCM last year, it was my 2nd marathon, started in the 3:40 group, just about finished in front of the 3:50 group.

I mostly blame that fact I was only doing long runs and very little mid week running. My mileage over all was very low.

Took my medicine, built up a good base over the winter. Running more than ever now, confident this year and going into the 3:30 group.

Not looking forward to taper madness and the risk of getting a cold during it.

28064212

Fiftyplus wrote: »

Did the DM last year for first time and like many found it tough going, clocking 3.37.00 having targeted sub 3.30.00. Did the first half in 1.43.30 and bombed in the last five miles posting a positive split of 11 minutes. Probably went off a shade too quick though more likely the conditions found me out. Who would be planning a negative split this year?. I read some regard the second half of the course 'easier' than the first.

There's very little difference between the first and second half from an elevation point of view.

Even splits with a slightly conservative goal is usually the best approach, especially for (relative) novices. A 1:45:30 would have been a much more appropriate halfway time.

Of course, you have to be even more conservative if it's a warm day like last year. 95% of people ran a positive split last year, compared to 88% the year before and 83% in 2012

annapr

Nichakhun wrote: »

I think the drag up Blackhall Place and into Manor Street then Aughrim Street is possibly worse than the drag on the small piece of chesterfield avenue that is not in this years course.

I did this stretch today... it's not as steep as the drag up from Parkgate st through the main gate of the Park, but there is a noticeable drag for sure and both Manor St and Aughrim st are narrow and likely to be congested I would think... and the left turn onto Aughrim St is quite sharp.

The highest point in the first 8-9 miles is just beyond Myo's in Castleknock, right after the left turn towards Chapelizod.... so all through the park is net uphill. But then there's the lovely downhill from Tower Road to Chapelizod Gate. That's as far as I got today!

snailsong

Everyone seems to blame the heat last year but I honestly think the wind was a bigger factor. Most people seemed to suffer on the long stretch into the wind about half way, myself included.

I reckon its prudent not to settle on a target until we see the conditions on the day. If it's like last year I'll allow 5 minutes for the wind and pace accordingly. Otherwise it could cost lots more.

Notwork Error

snailsong wrote: »

Everyone seems to blame the heat last year but I honestly think the wind was a bigger factor. Most people seemed to suffer on the long stretch into the wind about half way, myself included.

I reckon its prudent not to settle on a target until we see the conditions on the day. If it's like last year I'll allow 5 minutes for the wind and pace accordingly. Otherwise it could cost lots more.

+1

The humidity early had me feeling a lot rougher than I should've going through the Phoenix park but a combination of the wind and trying to force the pace and stay on target just after halfway was the final nail in the coffin when I really should have backed off and let the effort do the talking. I've never seen so many people walking just after halfway, a good 30-40 runners who were targeting sub-3 or faster all stopped on the side of the road at 14 miles.

Round number chasing is the single biggest cause of blowing up for marathon runners, trying to eek out that little bit extra and getting obsessed with pace no matter what the conditions are.

average_runner

Notwork Error wrote: »

+1

The humidity early had me feeling a lot rougher than I should've going through the Phoenix park but a combination of the wind and trying to force the pace and stay on target just after halfway was the final nail in the coffin when I really should have backed off and let the effort do the talking. I've never seen so many people walking just after halfway, a good 30-40 runners who were targeting sub-3 or faster all stopped on the side of the road at 14 miles.

Round number chasing is the single biggest cause of blowing up for marathon runners, trying to eek out that little bit extra and getting obsessed with pace no matter what the conditions are.

It's also a tougher course, clonskeagh hill comes later into it and the first half is now tougher.

Don't think it's possible to get a flat marathon in Dublin

vanderlyle

annapr wrote: »

I did this stretch today... it's not as steep as the drag up from Parkgate st through the main gate of the Park, but there is a noticeable drag for sure and both Manor St and Aughrim st are narrow and likely to be congested I would think... and the left turn onto Aughrim St is quite sharp.

The highest point in the first 8-9 miles is just beyond Myo's in Castleknock, right after the left turn towards Chapelizod.... so all through the park is net uphill. But then there's the lovely downhill from Tower Road to Chapelizod Gate. That's as far as I got today!

I went up that manor st stretch today too anna. I'd add that when you get to the gate of the park at the North Circular Road, you're climbing again for almost another half mile along North Road until the turn right.

The drag from the gate at the end of Chesterfield up to Castleknock is a nasty one, so you're not over the worst when you get out of the park.

annapr

vanderlyle wrote: »

I went up that manor st stretch today too anna. I'd add that when you get to the gate of the park at the North Circular Road, you're climbing again for almost another half mile along North Road until the turn right.

The drag from the gate at the end of Chesterfield up to Castleknock is a nasty one, so you're not over the worst when you get out of the park.

I'm sure Manor St has never seen so many runners

and shouldn't that be a turn left off North Rd (and eventually right onto Chesterfield)?

I found that stretch from the park gate to Myo's endless last year, now I know why!

vanderlyle

annapr wrote: »

and shouldn't that be a turn left off North Rd (and eventually right onto Chesterfield)?

Oops, meant my other right

Downtime

vanderlyle wrote: »

I went up that manor st stretch today too anna. I'd add that when you get to the gate of the park at the North Circular Road, you're climbing again for almost another half mile along North Road until the turn right.

The drag from the gate at the end of Chesterfield up to Castleknock is a nasty one, so you're not over the worst when you get out of the park.

I did the same last night. Between Blackhall Place and the top of the park (Castleknock gate) there is only a 40m elevation gain, with the high gain being between Manor Street and North Circular. Once you get inside the gate of the park the elevation gain is only about 20 metre over 2 miles. Plus it is early on in the race so wont be very noticeable. I'd be more worried about Milltown to Fosters Avenue.

annapr

Downtime wrote: »

I did the same last night. Between Blackhall Place and the top of the park (Castleknock gate) there is only a 40m elevation gain, with the high gain being between Manor Street and North Circular. Once you get inside the gate of the park the elevation gain is only about 20 metre over 2 miles. Plus it is early on in the race so wont be very noticeable. I'd be more worried about Milltown to Fosters Avenue.

looking at strava and garmin, it's about 60m gain to Castleknock from Manor St (from 11m to 72m at highest point). It's not bad, just a steady drag, and not at the tough end of the race... hopefully!

chinguetti

The problem I thought last year was a combination of things; the wind, the heat and people didn't pace themselves right. The weather you can do nothing about but the pace you can.

I entered the Park besides two lads that I chatted along to as we ran along the Quays. They both asked me for local knowledge about the course. I told them they're a drag all the way up the Park and along Crumlin and the wind would be tough at these points. No.1 thanked me and tore off at the Zoo and was soon out of sight, the other stuck with me and I laughed and said that No.1 was a fool.

No.1 finished an hour after me, the other guy finished 5 minutes after me. I passed roughly 1,200 runners from halfway to the line and had a 20 seconds positive split.

After 5 marathons, I learned how to pace things right cause I'd done it wrong the previous 4 times.

rom

Signup closing in 2 hours.

dintbo

I'm running again this year, but going by a different plan for me. I'm using Hanson where the long run maxes out at 16 miles (though I did a 16.5 due to a route fook-up). Hoping sensible pacing and relatively fresh legs might bring me in under 3:30.

Outside

dintbo wrote: »

I'm running again this year, but going by a different plan for me. I'm using Hanson where the long run maxes out at 16 miles (though I did a 16.5 due to a route fook-up). Hoping sensible pacing and relatively fresh legs might bring me in under 3:30.

Don't know much of this Hanson training but 16 mi max long run? I thought my Jack Daniels 20 mi max was bad?! Obviously a tried and tested plan right?

Beef

Signed up months ago and this will be my 3rd marathon. It will be my first in Dublin though so I'm really looking forward to it. I don't really want to taper though, I'm enjoying the training and I always go fuc*king nuts!

Notwork Error

Outside wrote: »

Don't know much of this Hanson training but 16 mi max long run? I thought my Jack Daniels 20 mi max was bad?! Obviously a tried and tested plan right?

Same method as the Hanson-Brooks elite training group or whatever they call themselves now use. Personally, I wouldn't be confident without 20+ under my belt but it works for some people, most notably on boards, aero2k has had good success with it. the plan is more in line with using cumulative fatigue and intensity to get a training effect rather than the major focus being on a long slow run.

dintbo

It's very much an experiment which could go horribly wrong. I've already run a marathon time I'm happy with this year so I thought I'd try something different. 16 is scarily short, but it has worked for a lot of people. I guess I was just curious to see if it could work for me!

My pb from Cork this year came from a P&D 55-70 cycle so I'll go back to that next year if this goes badly!

Outside

dintbo wrote: »

It's very much an experiment which could go horribly wrong. I've already run a marathon time I'm happy with this year so I thought I'd try something different. 16 is scarily short, but it has worked for a lot of people. I guess I was just curious to see if it could work for me!

My pb from Cork this year came from a P&D 55-70 cycle so I'll go back to that next year if this goes badly!

Interesting! I suppose having a good base anyway and a relatively recent marathon will stand to you, obviously not a beginner plan. Looking forward to seeing how it goes, more than one way to skin a cat! Good luck!

Bez Bing

dintbo wrote: »

It's very much an experiment which could go horribly wrong. I've already run a marathon time I'm happy with this year so I thought I'd try something different. 16 is scarily short, but it has worked for a lot of people. I guess I was just curious to see if it could work for me!

My pb from Cork this year came from a P&D 55-70 cycle so I'll go back to that next year if this goes badly!

Very interested to hear this goes. Definitely believe there is more than one way to skin a cat but only doing a 16m long run would scare the bejasus out of me. Best of luck.

robinph

Bez Bing wrote: »

Very interested to hear this goes. Definitely believe there is more than one way to skin a cat but only doing a 16m long run would scare the bejasus out of me. Best of luck.

It is definitely possible, but I'd not recommend it if you can fit in more miles. I did just scrape a sub three from very minimal miles and about 35 a week max, with possibly only one 18 mile run in addition to several other 16ish.

Not a good idea though and far easier with more miles.

Bez Bing

robinph wrote: »

It is definitely possible, but I'd not recommend it if you can fit in more miles. I did just scrape a sub three from very minimal miles and about 35 a week max, with possibly only one 18 mile run in addition to several other 16ish.

Not a good idea though and far easier with more miles.

Yeah I'd imagine this would only be possible after a couple of marathon cycles and a decent endurance base.

dintbo

Outside wrote: »

Interesting! I suppose having a good base anyway and a relatively recent marathon will stand to you, obviously not a beginner plan. Looking forward to seeing how it goes, more than one way to skin a cat! Good luck!

Bez Bing wrote: »

Very interested to hear this goes. Definitely believe there is more than one way to skin a cat but only doing a 16m long run would scare the bejasus out of me. Best of luck.

robinph wrote: »

It is definitely possible, but I'd not recommend it if you can fit in more miles. I did just scrape a sub three from very minimal miles and about 35 a week max, with possibly only one 18 mile run in addition to several other 16ish.

Not a good idea though and far easier with more miles.

I'm pretty interested myself and a little scared.

I should point out though, it's not necessarily a low mileage plan, just one that takes the emphasis away from the LSR and shares it around the rest of the week. So for example this week the plan was/is:

Mon: Easy 8 mi
Tue: 2x3 mi at HMP(ish) with 1 mi rec and 1.5 mi warm up and cool down (10 mi)
Wed: Rest
Thur: 10 mi @ MP with 1.5 mi warm up and cool down (13 mi)
Fri: Easy 7 mi
Sat: Easy 8 mi
Sun: 'LSR' 16 mi

I know you wouldn't call 62 miles a high mileage week, but it's not that low either. I'm not much of a runner or writer but if anyone fancies reading about it from the start I've kept a log here since the beginning of the plan.

Notwork Error

Bez Bing wrote: »

Yeah I'd imagine this would only be possible after a couple of marathon cycles and a decent endurance base.

Suprisingly not. It could actually be just as useful if not more for a beginner or 3.30+ marahon runner if they are willing to put in the mileage as it is for the Olympic hopefuls that use it due to the way the physiology of the human body. Your 3.30 runner does not get much bang for their buck physically from a run lasting more than 3 hours, this is true for everybody from elite to first time runner and why elite runners will run 30 miles in marathon training, because they still get big benefits up until 3 hours.

Spreading the mileage across the week with intensity will create a cumulative fatigue heading into the run of 16 miles will make that run just as hard as your typical 20 miler from other plans and you will get still be taking alot more bang for your buck if you are even a 3.20 runner as the run will be under that 3 hour threshold. In my opinion, it's a better plan than P+D and pfitz if you are around that pace or slower and want to run good mileage still. It's an interesting take on marathon training and goes about achieving the same training effect in a different way. It's actually a more balanced plan for that time goal than any of the others.

Outside

Notwork Error wrote: »

Suprisingly not. It could actually be just as useful if not more for a beginner or 3.30+ marahon runner if they are willing to put in the mileage as it is for the Olympic hopefuls that use it due to the way the physiology of the human body. Your 3.30 runner does not get much bang for their buck physically from a run lasting more than 3 hours, this is true for everybody from elite to first time runner and why elite runners will run 30 miles in marathon training, because they still get big benefits up until 3 hours.

Spreading the mileage across the week with intensity will create a cumulative fatigue heading into the run of 16 miles will make that run just as hard as your typical 20 miler from other plans and you will get still be taking alot more bang for your buck if you are even a 3.20 runner as the run will be under that 3 hour threshold. In my opinion, it's a better plan than P+D and pfitz if you are around that pace or slower and want to run good mileage still. It's an interesting take on marathon training and goes about achieving the same training effect in a different way. It's actually a more balanced plan for that time goal than any of the others.

That makes sense now alright, Jack Daniels plan will specify his longest run as "20mi or else 150min, which-ever comes first" so for a slower than 7:30/mi runner the time limit of 150mins will dictate the length of the run.

I suppose for a first-timer, it might be a problem convincing the head that the legs can do an extra 10-12 miles on the big day.