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ATH Q-Final #4 - Cheese Wagstaff Vs thebostoncrab

  • 24-09-2015 12:32pm
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭

    The last Quarter final is upon us and its ATH vet, TBC taking on Cheese Wagstaff with a place in the Semi Final up for grabs. Here is your question guys,......

    QF- Q4: The Movie The Wrestler (intentionally not picking a real wrestler here) highlighted how many wrestlers can't leave the life/ring and always want one more chance to recreate their glory days. If Vince McMahon/HHH wanted you to bring someone of this stature back and / or give someone one last run on top, who would you choose and how would you book it?

    After your first post, why would your choice be better than your opponents?

    Whos return was better? 16 votes

    thebostoncrab - Scott Hall battling Kevin Owens
    0% 0 votes
    Chesse Wagstaff - Jake the Snake as leader of The Resurrection
    100% 16 votes


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,491 ✭✭✭thebostoncrab

    If I'm bringing someone back, I want it to be for a final run. Nothing more, just one last run to give them a moment they deserve and help build the roster, so my booking is simple to be honest, but takes place over the course of a few months.

    Its October 2015, and down at NXT Finn Bálor is having an amazing rubber match with Kevin Owens for the NXT title. Legends from the past have all turned up to watch this match unfold, bigging up the two men as two future legends in the WWE and are helping to make wrestling become as big as it has ever been. One man at ringside, just like he was for the past few NXT specials, is Scott Hall.

    Scott watches these two tear the roof off the place, and congratulates Finn after his match. He tells him he reminds him of a younger version of himself; hungry, and it the world watching him and always passing out expectations. He tells him to keep growing, and don't let the demon become something else, because the last thing he wants is for people to remember him for his demons. Scott gets a little emotional about this will Finn consoles him.

    Owens turns up to tell Scott that his era is dead. The days of guys pissing away everything they earned is long gone, and that people like Owens aren't stupid enough to throw it all away. HHH turns up after hearing about his friend getting upset and tells Owens to get lost.

    The next week on Raw, Owens is defending is IC belt week after week, but unlike Cena cheats to win and regularly walks out and looses by count out. He continues with his "I'll fight another day" stick, but each week gets little digs in at Scott Hall, saying that unlike Scott Hall he knows when it's time to say no. This happens regularly but with no sight of Hall.

    Come December, WWE has a Raw in Maryland, Halls home state, and Owens does an interview before his match. He says that the reason he fights is to support his son. Everything he does isn't for the fans, it's to put money on that table and give his son a better life. He stops and pauses, and remarks "...unlike Scott Hall. Scott Hall was selfish and threw everything away. When his son Cody needed his dad, daddy was lying face first in the gutter. Daddy wasn't there for Codys birthday, because it was $2 shot night in the tavern. I am the anti-Scott Hall. And these idiots may boo me for saying this, but I'm not saying anything that isn't true. The truth hurts, that's why you boo me. But I don't care, because I'm Kevin Owens, and I'll fight for my son."

    The nWo music doesn't even play, Scott Hall is here and is running out with security holding him back. They are screaming that they can't let him touch Owens and have to force him back, while Owens laughs and makes his way down to his match. Later on we see HHH and Hall talking. Hall is livid, but HHH tells him that he can't let Scott touch Owens, because he isn't clear to compete. He isn't a wrestler anymore, and while he thinks Owens is a scumbag for saying the things he is saying, he could face a lawsuit if he lets Scott Hall touch him. He tells him he has already built everything back up again, don't throw it away for someone that's not worth it. Hall shakes his head, but he understands where HHH is coming from.

    The next week, Owens keeps the stick up and keeps making more jabs at Scott Hall and his past. But there is nothing Hall can do, and Owens keeps reminding him of it.

    That week on the NXT, we get a look at the future talent working in the Performance Center, when in the background we see Scott Hall working in one of the rings. When he realises the crew has spotted him, he rolls out and leaves the building as quickly as he can.

    The next week on Raw, HHH asks him about the incident and why he was in the ring, and reminds him that he can't let him wrestle. While going through the reasons, he also states that he doesn't want to see Hall get hurt. His angers Scott, who questions HHH about this, telling him that his only problem his he doesn't have faith in Scott Hall the wrestler anymore. He is like Owens; he just see's him as washed up. Hall says he'll show the world that they all got it wrong to write off Scott Hall, and he leaves.

    We don't hear from Scott Hall again. In fact, Kevin Owens plays to the Hall thing less than usual.

    Then the Rumble happens. Owens is early in the match, and is doing a great job at surviving. At one stage he is the only man standing in the ring, and he does the Scott Hall taunt as the clock counts down. When it hits 0, the music of Scott Hall plays and the place hits the roof. Scott comes out, looking in great shape, and wastes no time running out to the ring. Owens jumps out of the ring as Scott slides in, the two chase around the ring, Owens slides in but is met with a right by fellow Rumbler Cesaro. Hall catches him and proceeds to knock the living hell out of Owens. Owens shoves Hall off him...then eliminates himself. He says he is thinking ahead and is going to live to fight another day. Hall decides to stay in the match, so he can show the world that he can still go. He is impressive in the Rumble, but is eliminated when Owens sneaks back out and pulls the rope from under Hall while he gets Irish whipped, causing him to go over the rope and be eliminated.

    The next night Hall comes out, and says for the past 2 months he has been training hard to show HHH that he can still bring the goods when needed. He knows his place isn't as a full time wrestler anymore, and he doesn't want to take away from the superstars of tomorrow. But there is only so much he can take listening to Kevins Owens and he wants to shut him up. And he is making it clear, he wants one final Wrestlemania moment, and at Wrestlemania he wants to go one on one with Kevin Owens and give him a beating 7 months in the making.

    From here you have a promo war between the two, with Owens doing everything to get under Scott Halls skins and break his spirit, with Hall getting through everything and proving the world that he is a new man.

    When it comes time for 'Mania, the match is set. Owens is a world class wrestler who would be able to mask and limitation Hall may still have, and be able to pull out a great and engaging match with him. Yes, it won't be a 5 star classic, but there is enough story and skill between the two men to make fans invested, plus it's hard to call the finish; does Owens go over? But it makes sense for Hall to get his revenge and finish the story, giving him his Wrestlemania moment and give a great final bow to the fans, and an image of an icon that they will be glad to remember.

    Owens wins.

    Sorry, not all stories have happy endings.

    Owens beats Scott Hall and beats him fair. No matter how much he has improved, Owens is still in better shape and will be able to out perform Hall (Kayfabe wise) so of course he beats him. But it's not a white wash. The match goes back and forth that you could believe either man could do it. But Owens stands tall. Scott Hall at the end of the match offers his hand to Owens as a sign of respect, Owens stands there, looking back and forth....and walks to the ropes. He stops, thinks about it, and walks back to shake his hand only to be met with the Razors Edge! Hall stands tall and shouts "Don't forget punk, I'M the bad guy!" and the crowd is going nuts! Owens may have gotten the win, but Hall gets the final punch in!

  • Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Cheese Wagstaff

    Monday Night Raw is upon us. A returning Wade Barrett is interviewed backstage, before he has a match with Mark Henry. He makes it clear that it is going to be business as usual, and it will be like he was never gone.

    Into the match, and Barrett is gaining the upper hand on the World's Strongest Man. With Henry struggling for breath on the outside, he goes out and turns his elbow pad inside out. Bull Hammer time. As Henry gets to his feet, Barrett charges. However, Henry dodges and Barrett meets the ring post. He is quickly rolled back into the ring, and a Big Splash later is looking at the lights for the 1-2-3. He exits the ring a while after, and is visibly very upset at how easily he caused himself to lose.

    Heath Slater has a match against R-Truth, and barely brings in any offense. A quick rollup later, and the fight is over just as it began. Instead of focusing on the task at hand, he began posturing to the crowd and paid the price. He is seen walking up the ramp criticising himself and looking incredibly frustrated.

    This is paralleled with Fandango a short time later in the show. Facing up against Cesaro, he gains the upper hand only to fall victim to a surprise uppercut and lose. The reason for this? As he was about to hone in on the victory, he began Fandangoing to the crowd and completely took his eye off the ball. He also looks completely despondent at how easily he threw away a sure thing.

    The main event of the show sees a special edition of "The Cutting Edge Peep Show". Featuring the irrepressible Edge and Christian, they crack jokes with the audience, and they then begin to throw insults at members of the roster. After 1-2 barbed insults, Christian focuses his attention on Heath Slater, his one time NXT protege. He lambasts him, describing how he never amounted to anything after his time in development, and that he is now a poor excuse for an entertainer. This causes Slater to come out, defending himself on the mic. He points out that Christian himself has been the exact same; he has never been able to amount to anything on his own, that he has constantly been in Edge's shadow. This is compounded by the fact that despite the fans being vocal for Christian, that they didn't care enough to see him succeed. They didn't care like they cared about Daniel Bryan, like they now currently care about Cesaro. He finishes by saying that while Christian will never be able to get himself out of the rut he is in, Slater himself is addressing his situation, and that he will bite back.

    Christian is visibly moved by these words, and the realisation dawns on him. He turns back and clocks Edge over the head with the microphone. He then proceeds to merilessly pummel Edge on the ground. He is then joined by Slater as the duo begin to beat Edge until he no longer can put up a defence. They exit the ring silently, very much now brothers in arms. Edge has to be stretchered out the ring, he remains lifeless.

    The next week, Christian and Slater open the show. Christian advises that his former best friend is hospitalised and will not be seen on our screens again for a very long time. He says that he had to make this statement in order to prove that he doesn't need a crutch in order to show the world what he is truly capable of. He dismisses the fans, citing Slater as being very correct to point out the ambivalence they had for him, and that he has had enough. He too is now addressing his situation, and that he will bite back.

    Barrett meanwhile has a match against Neville, in a final qualifier match to see who will enter a Fatal 4-Way for the US title main event later that evening. As Neville attempts to build momentum, he goes up top for the Red Arrow. Barrett catches him unawares with a Bull Hammer, knocking him off the top rope and to the outside. Neville lies unconscious, while Barrett sits down in the bottom corner. Allowing the ref to count to 10, he raises his hand in triumph at his dominant count-out victory. He picks up a mic after this, and just utters that he knows what he has to do, and that he is now 'addressing his situation'.

    Finally, Cesaro battles Rusev, Dolph Ziggler and Barrett in the Fatal 4-Way for the US Championship. In a thrilling contest, Cesaro looks to be closing in on the title, when a hoodied individual blindsides him, nailing him with a pair of brass knuckles. As the hooded figure makes his way back up the ramp, he reveals himself to be Fandango. Barrett, knowingly smiling gets the cover for the 1-2-3. A new US champion is crowned, and the show closes out with both Barrett and Fandango making an unintelligible salute to the other.

    The week after, Barrett and Fandango open the show. Barrett acknowledges that in the two weeks since his return, he has had to adapt and change. With thanks to his ally Fandango and his willingness to improve, they were both able to bite back and reassert themselves on the roster the way that they both knew they could. They advise that they are here to dominate, and that nobody will stand in their way. Enter Slater and Christian, and an argument ensues as to who the more dominant team will be. An announcement is made that an over the top battle royal will be the main event, with the winner becoming the new No. 1 contender for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. A staredown occurs, with both parties vowing that the winner will come from them.

    For the main event, eliminations occur at a reasonable pace until the final 5: Christian, Barrett, Slater, Fandango & Cesaro. While Barrett and Christian are slumped in the corner, Slater and Fandango both launch themselves at Cesaro, eliminating him and themselves. With it down to Barrett and Christian, a staredown occurs for up to a minute. It is at this point, that Barrett vaults over the top rope, eliminating himself. Christian is crowned the new no. 1 contender, as Barrett, Slater and Fandango all re-enter the ring. The show closes with all four raising arms and making the same salute that Barrett and Fandango were using previously. They continue celebrating as the crowd boos.

    Next week, all four men open the show. With Christian as the main mouthpiece, he announces that all four of them have come from similar places: Beaten, downtrodden and underappreciated. Going under the moniker of "The Resurrection", he advises that their ability to bite back has all stemmed from a higher power. This power has enabled them to realise their full potential, as they can now run riot all over the WWE, and finally take what they deserve.

    It is at this point that people begin to wonder who could possibly have brought this group together? The Resurrection appear in singles and tag matches over the coming weeks, winning both clean and through nefarious means. As the show two weeks before the upcoming PPV closes, The Resurrection stand tall once more, having beaten down Roman Reigns, the current WWE WHC. Suddenly, the lights fall. As a shaft of light appears on the ramp, a figure walks out, dressed in brilliant white preacher's attire. It is none other than...

    Jake 'The Snake' Roberts

    All members of the Resurrection bow before him, as he laughs maniacally to close the show.

    As he has now been introduced, the plan would be for Jake to explain why he has brought the Resurrection together. He surmises that he was always regretful that he was never given the opportunities to hold championships, despite him being one of the most talented wrestlers and entertainers that the WWE had ever seen. While he is now far too old to make a challenge at this stage, he says that his wrestling brain is still second to nobody in the business. Why not use it to help wrestlers on the roster who are currently marginalised and also under appreciated?

    Seeds of this are then seen in the way members of the Resurrection fight in their matches, as they then become more calculated and cerebral, always making the smart decisions in order to pick up victories. Whether these methods are clean or dirty, the wins still keep racking up. At the next PPV, Christian would very dirtily win the WHC (with assistance from the Resurrection), while Slater and Fandango would then assert themselves in the tag division, eventually picking up the titles there, leaving all members of the stable with championships. Slowly but surely, all members are performing to the point where it is obvious that their traits that make them a threat are all stemming from Jake Roberts' guidance and tutelage.

    This would all come to a head at Survivor Series, where the Resurrection's tyranny is challenged in a traditional Survivor Series match. They would face off against Cesaro, Roman Reigns, Ryback and a returning John Cena. It ultimately ends with Reigns remaining against Fandango, Barrett and Christian. After being beaten down by all three at various points, Reigns takes down Fandango with a spear and eliminates him. Immediately, Barrett brutalises Reigns with a chair, DQ'ing himself. However, this is part of their overall plan, as the beatdown continues until Reigns is motionless on the mat, and Barrett has to be removed from the ring by security. Christian strolls in as the final legal man and covers him for the 1-2-3, and the win for the Resurrection.

    All four members walk back to an approving Jake and lie prostrate before him, with their titles on the ground at his feet. He may not have been given the opportunities himself in his own wrestling career, but as a veteran he has returned for one last vicarious run. He has vanquished all before him, and stands tall as the master of destruction.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,491 ✭✭✭thebostoncrab

    So...Jake Roberts is a heel? You're bringing Chritsian out of retirement also into a full time role? You are suddenly making Heath Slatter a main player in the WWE?

    I'm sorry but there is just too much that could go wrong here and far too much suspension of disbelief in order to make this work. To begin with...Heath Slatter? Seriously? It will take a lot more than just putting him up along side Christian for audiences to take him serious. The guy is a lower mid carder for life, and there has been far too much exposure as him presented as such for anyone to take him seriously. Never mind taking in that he isn't even the best wrestler in that position. It won't get over, end of story.

    Now, you are also bringing Christian back into a full time role. A man who is more than happy with retired life and won't be up for going onto this time of schedule again. A one match? 100%. Full time wrestler? It's not happening.

    Plus, you want to paint him as a man stuck behind a shadow? A former World Heavyweight Champion with a ton of successful single runs who was, just before going to TNA, one of the most over and popular wrestlers in the company? It doesn't work. Someone like Matt Hardy fits that role a lot more than Christian.

    Then, you bring back ANOTHER wrestler in Jake Roberts. Jake who will not be booed in the slightest, and have him as a heel mastermind? It won't happen. Jake is loved too much by fans to be booed.

    So you bring back two retired wrestlers, and make them the focus of your group? How does this make the roster better? How does his help "I'm not going to be in the shadows any longer!" Heath Slatter, considering he is playing second fiddle to two retired wrestlers?

    Plus, for the purposes of this's a slight waste isn't it? Vince has asked you to bring back a legend for a final run ala The Wresltler, and he is a spoke person for a group where he isn't the focus, and is placed in a role that just won't go down with the fans, because no one is booing him. This just has all the making of a mess that belongs in TNA.

    With Scott Hall however, the focus is very simple, very clear and easy to follow. We know fans will boo Owens and will cheers Hall, Scott won't overstay his welcome and the entire feud helps establish Owens as an absolutely massive heel, we get a fun match out of it and a story line that everyone will remember. It gives Hall the final great moment that he deserves, is much easier and realistic to pull off, and more than gives Vince what he has asked you and I to do.

  • Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Cheese Wagstaff

    Okay, just a couple of things:

    1. It's Heath Slater, one T in his last name (I'm a stickler!)
    2. Christian has not been officially announced as retired, so I think all is fair in love and war for this one.

    Your rebuttal focuses on the fact that too much disbelief has to be suspended in order for this to work. I am taking four wrestlers who have been praised for their abilities by fans, and proportionally elevating them.

    Jake Roberts, up until his feud with Hogan, was seen as one of the most conniving and cerebral heels in the business. We have all seen returning legends automatically be treated as faces, correct. However, when rabid fan favourites are attacked/blindsided, it has caused the people behind the attacks to be booed. In real life, we have seen none other than the Undertaker being booed for attacking Brock Lesnar. If Jake Roberts is shown as the man responsible for hospitalising Edge and preventing Cesaro from winning a championship, I think it is reasonably safe to suggest that the reaction would not be one of cheers and love.

    You are quite perturbed by my want to elevate Heath Slater. Slater in his time with WWE, has proven himself to be a decent in-ring performer, and quite charismatic when given mic time. He is reasonably popular with fans, and in no way would giving him more time be a bad thing. I never mentioned that he said he wanted to step out of the shadows; he says that he is attempting to get out of the rut he is in. This rut? Losing all the time. A wrestler wanting to break a losing streak is where his arc takes us. Sure, he is involved with a new faction being given a lot of focus, but the farthest he goes is winning some matches, running interference for Barrett and Christian, and holding the Tag Team championships. Hardly a meteoric rise, but a different direction which makes him look less of a chump and gives him slightly more credibility thanks to his alliance with the Resurrection, and of course with Roberts.

    I think it is well documented by now that Christian's time as a World champion was never meant to be taken seriously, it was rather done as a way of acknowledging his friendship with Edge. His time at the top was essentially a way of saying thank you to his friend upon his retirement, rather than due to his own abilities. Sure, he won many midcard titles, but it was always often felt that he could do more. As popular as he was also, fans never clamoured for him to be elevated immeasurably like they did with Daniel Bryan, and like they are currently doing with Cesaro. Once it was apparent that it was never going to happen, they gave up. The complete opposite of what they are doing now with the aforementioned guys where they demanded and are now demanding that it happens. From this, it is very plausible for a bitter Christian to return with an axe to grind. If we really want to go there in terms of his work schedule, it is very possible to have Christian show up in suits and do talking segments, only having to wrestle when there is something of value at stake. Problem solved. In the timeline I mentioned there, he has only competed in an over the top Battle Royal, a singles match, and a multi-man elimination tag match. I'm not a wrestler, but it's not exactly the most intense schedule ever created.

    With this angle, you have several wrestlers being given better positions in the company, and feuding with different wrestlers which keeps things fresh. You have Jake Roberts presiding over a group who are using all of his talents and advice to their advantage, which lets his influence permeate the roster, and up the standard as a whole. Is it as simplistic as one man fighting another man? Definitely not, I never claimed it to be. However, this choice allows more people to benefit, and acknowledges the genius of a legend without putting him in harm's way. Rather than just seeing a Jake the Snake clone, we get to see different parts of what made him great in many others, which can help to make more rounded and complex characters. In learning from one of the industry's best ever storytellers, the quality can only improve as a result.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,491 ✭✭✭thebostoncrab

    Christian is retired by the WWE. They have officially said so at the end of 2014. This is due to alleged concusion issues. Bringing Christian back to this type of schedule will never fly by WWE because his health will be in too much of a risk, and that's the last thing WWE want. (And no, Scott Hall wouldn't be the same health risk because he would be medically cleared and it's for one match and 10 minutes in the Rumble. Very different.)

    Plus I honestly can't think of anyone who views Christian as someone always in Edges shadow...I mean they did that before when they broke the two up and suddenly Christian went on a massive rise in stock and fans viewed him as a different entity to Edge (And gave us one of my favourites themes with the "At Last" track :P). Christian being stuck in the shadows of Edge simply doesn't apply in 2015 when the guy had a main event run and has more than one successful singles run. Like I said before, someone like Matt Hardy or D'Von you could argue for, but not Christian; he isn't Marty.

    Heath Slater (My phone loves autocorrecting it to the two t's, Slaters Gonna Slate I guess!) is not someone fans are crying out to be featured in a main programme. The second it's all over and the storyline ends, Slater is back jobbing with a month. I'm sorry but he just doesn't have "It", that certain quality that makes you want to watch them wrestle. I'm not saying he is a bad wrestler, I enjoyed 3MB and thought he has good charisma...but I think of other guys that would fit the bill of "Left behind" better, with Zack Ryder being the elephant in the room in this situation, seeing as how it's more believable for him to be angry, has already shown he can move up the card and be taken seriously by the fans, and is a better wrestler than Heath.

    And with Jake, sure, he WAS amazing on the mic, he WAS able to captivate you and make you hate him or love him easily...I really think young fans won't get it. His voice is gone to **** and unfortuently that does impact your ability to grab an audience, especially the younger ones who won't understand him and will just get bored. I don't want to think like that because I love Roberts, but that's the cold hard truth. If anything, it could do damage to his reputation and make fans go, "Why do people love this guy so much?". So now you have the younger fans not giving a **** and I promise you the older fans will simply not boo Jake out of respect. Are you going to boo Jake? I sure as hell won't.

    Plus, you have him with a group that they never got their shot (Despite being lead by a former world champion in Christian), and him not being able to do anything about it? So you have him downplaying his own career and legacy? That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, if anything we should bring Jake back to celebrate how important his career was, not viewing it as a missed opportunity.

    To be honest, you say this will help grow superstars, but the only one it really seems to help is a retired wrestler who medically won't be cleared by the company, while a jobber gets a little bit of attention playing third fiddle, destined to drop back to his place once this is done.

    My angle however is simply, gives you a compelling storyline and plays to the strengths of both Owens and Hall, doesn't ignore that the fact that fans won't boo the returning legend so it's more likely to get the reactions you have set to achieve, and helps make a full time member of the roster a bigger heel by him not only being the focus of the feud, but the one getting the victory.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Cheese Wagstaff

    You say that your angle gives us a compelling storyline, yet from my reading of it, the guy who is supposed to be getting the final run...Scott Hall, is barely seen. He is supposed to be the returning hero, yet we never see him throughout the build up for this feud. How can something be compelling if you're only visiting it every so often? Bray Wyatt was the focus of his feud with the Undertaker, yet this turned out to be a damp squib overall. A feud needs interaction from both parties in order for something to have an ebb and flow.

    Also, seeing as you have been saying that my idea requires a lot of suspension of disbelief; we are supposed to believe that an out of shape and overweight Scott Hall can bring himself back to a decent level of fitness in 2 months? On top of this, we are supposed to believe that Scott Hall can get to a fighting condition that sees him being medically cleared to compete? This is the same Scott Hall that elicited gasps from the crowd when he took a simple back bump at Wrestlemania 31. This is because it was figured that engaging in any wrestling activity again would severely maim and injure him. If it's unrealistic for Christian to be cleared to compete, then this is your flying pig right here. The abuse that Scott Hall has done to his body is sadly irreparable at this stage, and time has caught up with him.

    Which then begs the question, if these things are so apparent, then how on earth is the outcome of the match up in the air? Kevin Owens is younger, fitter and technically better in the ring. Given this knowledge, how then does beating Scott Hall give Kevin Owens any credibility at all? To make matters worse, after beating him...he gets suckered in by a fake handshake and is left lying in the ring? Why? Of all wrestlers on the roster, Kevin Owens is the very last person who would even shake anybody's hand, never mind the hand of somebody he has publicly trashed the last few months, somebody who he has proclaimed himself to be the antithesis of. This just seems to be a knee jerk attempt to salvage some form of even stevens booking. Scott Hall may not be able to beat the better and more physically able wrestler, but we'll let him stand tall at the end for old times sake? This makes no sense, and is the culmination of your feud.

    Basically, Hall is able to make a miraculous transformation and end up victorious even in defeat. By leaving one of your most cerebral and shrewd heels lying flat on the mat, you are undermining his intelligence and damaging him. Let him slip out of the ring post victory, and you have a dominant heel. Your way leaves both where they were at the start.

    The question was how we would book a returning wrestler/legend's last run. Yours was concerning Scott Hall, while mine was concerning Jake Roberts. From reading your previous rebuttals, most of your comments seem to be directed towards my selection of wrestlers who come under Jake's wing in order to improve their standing. The fact of the matter is that different wrestlers could be chosen, provided they have had logical reasons to feel undermined and under-appreciated. They are completely interchangeable. The point of the argument is that they are to be used as a vessel to show how influential Jake Roberts truly is. You use Scott Hall to elevate Kevin Owens, who frankly would not be elevated by beating a decrepit old man and then being laid out by him post match. I use Jake Roberts to elevate four superstars who have lost their way, through them using traits that made him a great performer. You give him heat by showing him to be behind the attacks on Edge (a perennial fan favourite since his premature retirement) and by showing him to be the brains behind Cesaro being screwed out of the United States championship (a huge fan favourite across casual and smart demographics). Sure, some fans may not boo him out of respect, but a lot sure will when they see him being the reason for their favourites being injured or not progressing.

    Ultimately, the story you have presented is of a returning legend who never actually gets back to the top. He is somebody who would not be able to meet the physical requirements for a match, and somebody who should be beaten by any decent wrestler in the present day, and he is not somebody that would garner praise for the man who defeats him. His one moment on top comes after the match in a truly unrealistic situation with Kevin Owens, who completely subverts his entire heel persona in one fell swoop. His run is dependent on him fighting, and puts him at great risk of further injury if allowed to go ahead, which I doubt it would.

    My story allows a returning legend to be the pupper master, the master manipulator. He is able to take four capable but underutilized superstars, and elevate them to a place deserving of their abilities and talents. Here, he is in a role that won't see him being harmed physically and allows him to show a newer audience how he could captivate and enthrall, in addition to showing why he was so revered in the past. By the time the angle is over, four wrestlers will be in a better place than when they started, and it will all be because of Jake.

    From your last debate on ATH, you said you were a firm believer of 'And then what?' when it comes to booking. It is clear that following my guide leaves endless possibilities. Your story, while heartfelt only leads you back to the beginning.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe

    poll bump

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe

    poll bump

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe

    poll bump, voting closes lunch time tomorrow

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe

    last chance to vote as the poll is closing

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