into postcards

solataire

hi my 7 yr old child got a postcard to fill in and return to her teacher, its a teacher union postcard campaigning for smaller class sizes and better funding. have other schools been given the postcards ?

uck51js9zml2yt

My 5 year old got one as well.
With 12 in the class's I binned it.

solataire

hi
i would have filled it in and post to myself or deliver it to school secetary myself but my child is anxious that i complete it cos the teacher that called to class to hand them out said if EVERYONE in class returned it the class would get sweets , my child gone to bed with a bellyache , poor child thinks he ll be letting his classmates down.

monflat

No didn't get one. Maybe confined to a particular area?

solataire

its a national campaign , each schools approach is different i guess. i ll contact school and their union as i would be suprised they would run a campaign involving children.

byhookorbycrook

Bridget Proud Bathrobe wrote: »

My 5 year old got one as well.
With 12 in the class's I binned it.

So as it doesn't impact directly on your child , it's grand ?

uck51js9zml2yt

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So as it doesn't impact directly on your child , it's grand ?

I was being asked to put my child's name on a card which is a political mater.
If he could vote we might have had a different reaction.

byhookorbycrook

It's about making sure our primary children get a fair crack of the whip. It's aimed at govt. rather than a particular party. As an SEN teacher, I see how primary children and education are seen as easy targets for cuts. I don't care who is in or out of power, but I do care about how they make decisions that hurt our children.

solataire

.i agree with the union's arguments , student class size is very important , but children shouldn't be involved in the campaign.

echo beach

solataire wrote: »

.i agree with the union's arguments , student class size is very important , but children shouldn't be involved in the campaign.

While 7 might be on the young side to start getting politically active, it is no harm for children to know that matters that affect them directly, like class sizes, are a result of government policy and that citizens can and do try to influence that policy.

byhookorbycrook

The issue is that the media paint any campaign by teachers, aided by govt spin, as "greedy teachers" We, as teachers , know we will be ignored, having parents and children involved might just make the difference.

I am aware of cases in schools where SENOs are asking schools to decide whose SNA support gets abolished , SEN provision slashed so much as to be almost useless, children who will never get the educational assessment and support they need. Schools have to go the parents with begging bowls because the DES funding won't even stretch to the costs of providing toilet paper. Teachers don't want to ask parents for extra funding, but under the current system have no choice. This campaign isn't about restoring the savage pay cuts teachers have endured, it's about improving conditions for YOUR children.

purplecow1977

See below!

purplecow1977

I was going to get some of my class to fill some in. Better not do that now! However I have taught classes with above 30 students for the past few years so it's definitely something I feel strongly about. Children are not given the support they need with such large numbers.

overmantle

Bridget Proud Bathrobe wrote: »

My 5 year old got one as well.
With 12 in the class's I binned it.

It is difficult to understand how there could be only 12 in your 5 year old's class but can only assume that the school expected to have a larger number and that the children didn't turn up. 12 in a class, is certainly NOT the norm, nor will it be.

The one thing you need to realise, however, is that THERE IS NO WAY that a situation like that can be sustained, going forward. If your child is now in a class of 12, s/he will be in a much larger (probably multi-grade) class, in the years ahead. You will wonder then, when your child is in a multi-grade class of over 30, exactly why you were so quick to bin that card. Unfortunately, by then, the election will already have taken place and your opportunity to speak for your child's future, will have passed.

uck51js9zml2yt

overmantle wrote: »

It is difficult to understand how there could be only 12 in your 5 year old's class but can only assume that the school expected to have a larger number and that the children didn't turn up. 12 in a class, is certainly NOT the norm, nor will it be.

The one thing you need to realise, however, is that THERE IS NO WAY that a situation like that can be sustained, going forward. If your child is now in a class of 12, s/he will be in a much larger (probably multi-grade) class, in the years ahead. You will wonder then, when your child is in a multi-grade class of over 30, exactly why you were so quick to bin that card. Unfortunately, by then, the election will already have taken place and your opportunity to speak for your child's future, will have passed.

Firstly, the school has sma!l classes and infants has 16. First class has 7. There are also 2 sna's in his class.
secondly, I won't allow my son to be used as a political pawn by anyone.

My opinion of teaching unions is fairly low having seen how they have used kids as pawns in the junior cycle debacle. To see Asti saying their NO vote with a 40% turnout is justifiable when the other unions backed the plan is laughable.

heldel00

Bridget Proud Bathrobe wrote: »

Firstly, the school has sma!l classes and infants has 16. First class has 7. There are also 2 sna's in his class.
secondly, I won't allow my son to be used as a political pawn by anyone.

My opinion of teaching unions is fairly low having seen how they have used kids as pawns in the junior cycle debacle. To see Asti saying their NO vote with a 40% turnout is justifiable when the other unions backed the plan is laughable.

Totally separate union, totally separate issue.

byhookorbycrook

Bridget Proud Bathrobe wrote: »

Firstly, the school has sma!l classes and infants has 16. First class has 7. There are also 2 sna's in his class.
secondly, I won't allow my son to be used as a political pawn by anyone.

So there are 23 in a multi-class then? Is it a DEIS school?? DEIS schools have not had the same cuts as some other schools, but that doesn't mean they haven't suffered too.

As to two SNAs- they are there to meet care needs of specific children, not to teach or look after any other child.

Will you be as vocal if those children lose their SNA and resource hours and the children are all expected to be catered for , both in care needs and educational needs by one teacher?
There is new model for SEN provision coming down the tracks and believe you me all of that is very likely. Learning Support will be cut too, so heaven help your child if they need extra support in maths or literacy down the line.

Do you object to having to contribute to fundraisers or pay contributions to the school, because ,year in ,year out people are online bemoaning the cost of back to school?

uck51js9zml2yt

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So there are 23 in a multi-class then? Is it a DEIS school?? DEIS schools have not had the same cuts as some other schools, but that doesn't mean they haven't suffered too.

As to two SNAs- they are there to meet care needs of specific children, not to teach or look after any other child.

Will you be as vocal if those children lose their SNA and resource hours and the children are all expected to be catered for , both in care needs and educational needs by one teacher?
There is new model for SEN provision coming down the tracks and believe you me all of that is very likely. Learning Support will be cut too, so heaven help your child if they need extra support in maths or literacy down the line.

Do you object to having to contribute to fundraisers or pay contributions to the school, because ,year in ,year out people are online bemoaning the cost of back to school?

Were did I say he was in a multi class situation?
Regarding SNA's ,I know they're there to support other kids but it stands to reason my son will benefit from their being present to take pressure off the teacher.
As for supporting him in maths a literacy. With an undergrad and postgrad under my belt in different disciplines I think I can handle it. Granted, I don't think I can say that for some of the other parents.
As regards funding, I've no problem with the level of funding asked for knowing the extra curricular activities organised by the school.It is a DEIS school.
When I was in school in the 70's/80's we were fundraising as well and had classes of 40 plus.

byhookorbycrook

The school has small numbers because of its DEIS status. There is no certainty that DEIS status will be protected.The school also attracts extra funding, at present, again, no guarantee this will continue.
So things might be rosy there right now, but part of the campaign is to ensure that disadvantaged children continue to get the help they need. Even with DEIS status, your child's school with such small numbers in each room , is very likely to lose teachers.


The SNAs are not there to teach the children to whom they have been allotted, their role is solely care need driven. If an SNA is used in a teaching role, they may be removed by a SENO.

As a teacher, I am looking at a far broader picture and at a longer game. Throw your card in the bin. That's your right, but don't try to dress it up as teachers trying to play party politics. I'd vote for satan himself if I thought it would improve life for our primary children.

To be honest, I think you are taking a very "I'm alright Jack" approach.

uck51js9zml2yt

Its not a case of "I'm all right". It's a case of a union wanting to use my sons name and school on a card to get a result.
I'm not happy with that and am capable of raising the issue with my local government minister next time he calls to my door.

Added to this that it was just given to him to bring home without any word to me as his parent is despicable. Not to mention other posters saying their kids were bribed!

solataire

. Not to mention other posters saying their kids were bribed![/QUOTE]
poor child is still waiting for promised sweets, i'll be ringing INTO on monday to see if this is how they intended this campaign to be run. I would have messaged local councillers myself to support campaign as well as post postcard myself , but instead i ve signed a postcard because my child was anxious whole class wouldn't get sweets if I didn't.

byhookorbycrook

Bridget Proud Bathrobe wrote: »

Added to this that it was just given to him to bring home without any word to me as his parent is despicable.!

How exactly did you want the INTO to "give you word???"

solataire

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

How exactly did you want the INTO to "give you word???"

the Into have helpfully outlined, on their website, how they would word letter / text to parents for this campaign ,it looks like involving children wasn 't their intention.

purplecow1977

I don't see the harm in involving children when it concerns matters that directly impact upon them

byhookorbycrook

solataire wrote: »

the Into have helpfully outlined, on their website, how they would word letter / text to parents for this campaign ,it looks like involving children wasn 't their intention.

But you said the postcards were to be signed by the children, was this wording on the cards? I don't think too many parents visit the INTO site too often.

uck51js9zml2yt

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

But you said the postcards were to be signed by the children, was this wording on the cards? I don't think too many parents visit the INTO site too often.

The cards were directed to certain TD's
The wording on the site wasn't on them.
An explanation by the teacher to the parents collecting their kids would have gone a long way. A copy of the memo would have been better.

In the 3 weeks other things have happened with both an explanation and a memo so its not beyond their ability.

katydid

Bridget Proud Bathrobe wrote: »

My 5 year old got one as well.
With 12 in the class's I binned it.

Lucky you. What about other kids who are not as fortune as yours? Would it have killed you to stick a stamp on it and bung it in the box?

strawberrie

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

But you said the postcards were to be signed by the children, was this wording on the cards? I don't think too many parents visit the INTO site too often.

The cards simply say:
NAME.....
School.....
at the bottom of the card. It does not say child's name.

You can freetext StandUp to 50050 to support the campaign. Won't even cost a stamp.
Laughing at Mr. Noonan calling for all children older than 5 to have a tablet in schools.
Sure we will fundraise to keep the building's running. Never knowing if the minor works grant for repairs will be paid or not. Hold out hope for a summer works scheme to replace windows or boilers, rooves or toilets. But the children will be grand if all of them have tablets!!

ShamoBuc

I think the whole postcard campaign is pretty useless anyway. A few years ago it was mentioned at an into branch meeting that one might be in the offing. I asked how much will this postcard campaign cost the union, what information will be given to the parents, what effect will it actually have? No idea of the cost or parent info and it was hoped the TD's will see how annoyed everyone is, was the reply. I'm sorry, but if I'm a TD, postcards through the letter box would mean nothing to me, they will still say they are fighting on our behalf on a wide range of issues etc as they always do.

The postcard campaign is a waste of time. I filled it out and sent it back anyway, more for the child really, but it will have no effect whatsoever I think.

So many TD's come from a teaching background anyway that you would think we would be preaching to the converted ! You would think, but clearly we are not.

byhookorbycrook

I disagree that it is a waste of time. I was involved in a campaign to make a certain medication widely available. Tds were queuing up to tell me how it was their work that made it available, following a campaign.

feargale

echo beach wrote: »

While 7 might be on the young side to start getting politically active, it is no harm for children to know that matters that affect them directly, like class sizes, are a result of government policy and that citizens can and do try to influence that policy.

That's fine. But wait until the child is capable of making an informed decision before asking the child to commit to a position on the issue. What is happening here is reminiscent of a certain culture in Bradford, where the head of the household decides how his wife and daughters will vote in elections.

echo beach

feargale wrote: »

That's fine. But wait until the child is capable of making an informed decision before asking the child to commit to a position on the issue. What is happening here is reminiscent of a certain culture in Bradford, where the head of the household decides how his wife and daughters will vote in elections.

I don't understand the comparison. We are fortunate here to have a secret ballot (a situation that also applies in Bradford). Nobody knows how you vote. If your husband wants to come into the ballot box with you the presiding officer can stop him.
The parents can and should decide how they want to respond to the postcards and should be able to explain that decision. That is how you teach your children how to think, not what to think. Unfortunately many adults don't know how to think and so persist in voting for the same party as their parents and grandparents or don't vote at all.

katydid

feargale wrote: »

That's fine. But wait until the child is capable of making an informed decision before asking the child to commit to a position on the issue. What is happening here is reminiscent of a certain culture in Bradford, where the head of the household decides how his wife and daughters will vote in elections.

I didn't get the impression that the child was being asked to commit on the issue, but rather to understand it and be aware of it. Commitment has to be age appropriate.

feargale

solataire wrote: »

hi
i would have filled it in and post to myself or deliver it to school secetary myself but my child is anxious that i complete it cos the teacher that called to class to hand them out said if EVERYONE in class returned it the class would get sweets , my child gone to bed with a bellyache , poor child thinks he ll be letting his classmates down.

Sweets for taking a position? That sounds like buying votes. I hope that teacher doesn't teach civics.