Bought car a week ago - broke and they wont fix it

DylanII

Hi,

I purchased a car from AS Cars in Ballymount. It was a 2005 Volvo S40, 2.0D. I got a 3 month engine and gearbox warranty. Exactly one week to the day after I bought it it wouldnt start.

The AA came out and said that an oil leak (which the garage claimed they repaired before I bought it) has dripped down into the starter motor and caused it to burn out. However, I managed to get it started once more and drove it to the garage. I was trying to be decent because they seemed like a good place and know it wouldnt be good for them custom wise to have a car show up on the back of an AA lorry.

They said that the starter motor isnt covered under the warranty and that it wasnt caused by the oil leak. They said its not possible. The offered to fix the car for €135, that was wholesale price for the part and no labour charge.

I am considering paying it as the car is now stuck in their garage as it cant be restarted so I cant bring it to an other mechanic.

What advice can anyone give here? Id really appreciate any help?

Toyotafanboi

i wouldn't be spending €135 on a new starter until i knew the oil leak was fixed, otherwise you'l end up ruining your new starter too. if that price is inclusive of whatever is needed to fix the leak then i would do it.

realistically, you have been had. they aren't standing over their warranty, you have two choices;

hound them, pursue them, visit citizens information, speak to consumer rights, speak to solicitor, threaten small claims and so on and so on, create something that will drag on for months, give yourself a huge headache, sleepless nights and waste a lot of time and probably still get no resolution.

or spend €135, get the car fixed, take it as an unfortunate lesson learned and maintain your sanity.

then when you are picking up the car after it's been repaired and you've handed over payment, just as you go to leave ask can you use the bathroom. go in and put every single toilet roll you can get your hands on into the toilet bowl, cram them all in with your foot, good and tight, flush the toilet once to fill the bowl, then flush it a second time and head on. then you've had the last laugh.

that's what i'd do.

if the price isn't inclusive of the oil leak repair, then i'd take the car somewhere else. cut your losses with this crowd.

Alanstrainor

I don't know if I'd want them fixing it. I would go to an independent mechanic and get it fixed there. I'd be more than a bit worried that their incompetence would carry through to the repair and it would be broken again in no time.

listermint

I steer clear (excuse the pun)

of ballymount for this purpose.

DylanII

Yes they agree to fix the oil leak because its part of the warranty. Price wise 135 is good as I asked another garage and they suggested around €300 to have it repaired.

They offered an extended warranty with mapfre for 12 months. I was considering purchasing that for €150 also so I will be able to bring it to a reputable garage once it is fixed if I have any other issues.

colm_mcm

mapfre warranty is usually used to free the garage of any obligation warranty wise.

Toyotafanboi

colm_mcm wrote: »

mapfre warranty is usually used to free the garage of any obligation warranty wise.

i get the impression making a successful claim on one of those warranties is pretty difficult too. i'd just keep a hold of the €150 encase another problem arose.

jimgoose

On what planet is a failed starter motor not covered by a warranty that does cover oil-leaks??

DylanII

jimgoose wrote: »

On what planet is a failed starter motor not covered by a warranty that does cover oil-leaks??

Its probably because the oil leak was there before I purchased the car. Only it was left with them for 5 days to have the car properly serviced and valeted and the oil leak was meant to be fixed then.

jimgoose

DylanII wrote: »

Its probably because the oil leak was there before I purchased the car. Only it was left with them for 5 days to have the car properly serviced and valeted and the oil leak was meant to be fixed then.

If all the issues that may present were there before a person purchased a car, the whole notion of a warranty would be somewhat redundant! :pac:

DylanII

jimgoose wrote: »

If all the issues that may present were there before a person purchased a car, the whole notion of a warranty would be somewhat redundant! :pac:

Well the oil leak was there. They repaired it, and it reappeared. The agreement was that the car would be perfect when I collected it. They are fixing that regardless. But the starter motor is what they are charging for.

The claim that there was no issue with the starter motor and it just broke suddenly.

slimjimmc

How can engine oil burn out a starter motor?

Toyotafanboi

slimjimmc wrote: »

How can engine oil burn out a starter motor?

without knowing the intricacies of that engine, i'd say it's plausible that if a leak from, say the oil filter housing was trickling down to the starter and was weeping into the starters bell housing, if allowed to fill up i'd say engine oil would be "not very good" for the brushes etc.

doesn't sound too common, but certainly something that could happen.

slimjimmc

That's what I was thinking, an oil leak might contaminate a motor but not burn it out. However I'd consider contamination unlikely since starter motors are pretty well sealed. The garage was only charging €135 which suggests to me that the motor just needs a clean/new brushes. Of course the brushes could just be worn out anyway and unrelated to the oil issue but in any case I would have expected both scenarios to be covered under the dealer's warranty.

Mintoe

Sale of goods & supply of services act covers you completely regardless of whether the dealers warranty is engine and gearbox only.
Car must be:
1. Of merchantable quality
2. Fit for purpose
3. As Described

It is unreasonable to say that a car purchased (from a business whose main business is selling cars) 1 week ago and now has a faulty starter is fit for purpose therefore the dealer is fully responsible for the cost of the repair. SIMPLE AS

ps you maybe should have taken caution earlier of buying a car from a dealer that only openly offers warranty for engine & gearbox. Legally must offer minimum 3 months or 3,000 miles warranty whichever comes first and everything is covered except for normal or excessive wear and tear items like tyres, wiper blades etc or if you've burnt the clutch out.

166man

Imo the best thing you can do is bring the car to an independent specialist for Volvo and get em to fix it. Much less hassle and stress in the long run.

I'd not bother going near that place again tbh.

JimsAlterEgo

get it fixed from a Volvo garage and then take them to the Small Claims Court

slimjimmc

Mintoe wrote: »

Sale of goods & supply of services act covers you completely regardless of whether the dealers warranty is engine and gearbox only.
Car must be:
1. Of merchantable quality
2. Fit for purpose
3. As Described

It is unreasonable to say that a car purchased (from a business whose main business is selling cars) 1 week ago and now has a faulty starter is fit for purpose therefore the dealer is fully responsible for the cost of the repair. SIMPLE AS

ps you maybe should have taken caution earlier of buying a car from a dealer that only openly offers warranty for engine & gearbox. Legally must offer minimum 3 months or 3,000 miles warranty whichever comes first and everything is covered except for normal or excessive wear and tear items like tyres, wiper blades etc or if you've burnt the clutch out.

I've often seen this stated on boards.ie but I've yet to see anyone reference any legislation to support this claim. From what I can see there is no such thing as a compulsory 3mth/3000 mile warranty in Irish law.

Cerco

:oc

slimjimmc wrote: »

How can engine oil burn out a starter motor?

It seems the starter was not burned out since Op was able to start car eventually. Probably gunged up with oil.

Sam Kade

How could a 05 car be a week old?

jimgoose

Sam Kade wrote: »

How could a 05 car be a week old?

He means a week after he bought it.

George Dalton

166man wrote: »

Imo the best thing you can do is bring the car to an independent specialist for Volvo and get em to fix it. Much less hassle and stress in the long run.

I'd not bother going near that place again tbh.

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

get it fixed from a Volvo garage and then take them to the Small Claims Court

While these are nice ideas in theory in the real world what the OP should do is pay the €135 and chalk it down to experience.

Lenny

The starter motors fail on s40 2.0
Be sure to check 110% there is an oil leak,might have just been a tiny bit of oil from something previous and that's what the A A SAID, sometimes they're not always right tbh. But the starter motor was bound to go if it wasn't replaced already. Don't bother repairing it, how genuine there reasonable price

Seth Brundle

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i
then when you are picking up the car after it's been repaired and you've handed over payment, just as you go to leave ask can you use the bathroom. go in and put every single toilet roll you can get your hands on into the toilet bowl, cram them all in with your foot, good and tight, flush the toilet once to fill the bowl, then flush it a second time and head on. then you've had the last laugh.

Really?

JimsAlterEgo

George Dalton wrote: »

While these are nice ideas in theory in the real world what the OP should do is pay the €135 and chalk it down to experience.

why should they? Based on facts as stated I couldn't see the losing in theSCC.

Toyotafanboi

kbannon wrote: »

Really?

honestly, yeah.

if i was sold a car with a warranty that covered the engine and gearbox and it broke down a week later because a part that works between the engine and gearbox failed and the garage gave me two fingers, i'd be pissed.

you get no satisfaction trying to deal with cowboys like that above board. so to make me feel a little better, after i handed over the cash to pay for my warranty claim :rolleyes: i'd flood their bathroom if it were possible. or steal a box of pens or something, if i got the opportunity, definitely. it's not going to ruin their "business", they are able to do that themselves, but it would give them a pain in the ass, which would do me.

George Dalton

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

why should they? Based on facts as stated I couldn't see the losing in theSCC.

Because the hassle involved isn't worth it for the sake of €135.

slimjimmc

George Dalton wrote: »

Because the hassle involved isn't worth it for the sake of €135.

If the seller refuses to fix the starter the OP is entitled to have it fixed elsewhere out of his own pocket and claim a refund against the seller for the costs. He can do this through the Small Claims Court for €25.
Unless either side digs his heels in (resulting in a court hearing) it's not a lot of hassle, just some form filling.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1980/act/16/section/21/enacted/en/html#sec21

George Dalton

A lot of smalls claims court judgments are never actually paid out by the losing party.

I personally wouldn't go down that road for the sake of €135, you have very little to gain and potentially a lot to lose. Not worth it IMO.

ScouseMouse

Could you sit outside the dealership with a big sign on your car explaining what happened? Tell it exactly as it happened and see do they change their tune?

JimsAlterEgo

George Dalton wrote: »

A lot of smalls claims court judgments are never actually paid out by the losing party.

I personally wouldn't go down that road for the sake of €135, you have very little to gain and potentially a lot to lose. Not worth it IMO.

you lose the 25 max

MuppetCheck

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

you lose the 25 max

And the time off work...

bucketybuck

jimgoose wrote: »

On what planet is a failed starter motor not covered by a warranty that does cover oil-leaks??

A starter is an electrical item and not covered by a standard driveline warranty policy. This is pretty common, if you aren't paying for a comprehensive warranty then they have to draw the line somewhere.

Mintoe wrote: »

Sale of goods & supply of services act covers you completely regardless of whether the dealers warranty is engine and gearbox only.
Car must be:
1. Of merchantable quality
2. Fit for purpose
3. As Described

It is unreasonable to say that a car purchased (from a business whose main business is selling cars) 1 week ago and now has a faulty starter is fit for purpose therefore the dealer is fully responsible for the cost of the repair. SIMPLE AS

Not simple as, not even close.

slimjimmc

MuppetCheck wrote: »

And the time off work...

Most of the process involves an exchange of paperwork. You only need to attend in person if the Court Registrar requires it or the case goes for a hearing. Note that the both parties must attend so it may be worth both the seller's and OP while to settle quickly.
SCC flowchart (pdf)

George Dalton

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

you lose the 25 max

You lose the money that you paid to get the car fixed. Which will be a lot more than €135 if you take the car out of where it is now and get it fixed elsewhere.

slimjimmc

bucketybuck wrote: »

A starter is an electrical item and not covered by a standard driveline warranty policy. This is pretty common, if you aren't paying for a comprehensive warranty then they have to draw the line somewhere.

Hopefully the warranty documentation doesn't just consist of "3mths eng+gearbox" scribbled across a receipt and that the OP and the seller have a copy of the warranty terms & conditions.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not simple as, not even close.

It's close but it's not always simple and there is plenty of subjectivity.

DylanII

The €135 ended up being €166 after tax. But I just paid it for the sake of having my car back soon. Unfortunately though the car still has issues.

The oil leak which was repaired 3 times has reappeared/never went away. I have no faith in the garage at all as when I went over and explained that the starter motor had gone their mechanic spend c. 15 minutes trying to jump start the car and seemed to have no idea what was wrong while telling me that there was no oil leak.

There is now oil all over the new starter motor. I contacted the Competition and Consumer protection agency and they said that I am certainly within my rights to have the car repaired myself and bring them to court to recoup the cost.

slimjimmc

You can apply to the SCC online.
You don't need a solicitor (you can get one if you want) but in normal court hearings a company must have legal representation (perhaps the SCC is an exception).
http://www.beauchamps.ie/index.php/news/publications/can_a_director_represent_a_company_in_court_/1788

Did you find out what the story was with the old starter, was it contaminated with oil or another fault? If you knew that it may help you further.

dodzy

slimjimmc wrote: »

Hopefully the warranty documentation doesn't just consist of "3mths eng+gearbox" scribbled across a receipt and that the OP and the seller have a copy of the warranty terms & conditions.


It's close but it's not always simple and there is plenty of subjectivity.

I'd be surprised if the OP got even that. I'll wager it was just a verbal 'no worries boss, 3 months warranty as standard'

And unfortunately, following some advice above, i'd be concerned about the quality of the repair if OP was to leave the car with them. I'd be inclined to pull it out as is and go elsewhere.

They sound like a bunch of shams. Glad you N & S them.


EDIT: Sh*t: just seen OPs response above

DylanII

Another little update. I brought it to another garage and there is not only an oil leak but also a diesel leak. The breaks need to be done and it's showing three faults.

Glow.plug relay incorrect.

Turbo regulator

Overboost

dodzy

DylanII wrote: »

Another little update. I brought it to another garage and there is not only an oil leak but also a diesel leak. The breaks need to be done and it's showing three faults.

Glow.plug relay incorrect.

Turbo regulator

Overboost

In hindsight, you were better off getting the shams to do the initial repair work. This will strengthen your case with the SCC as it really is highlighting their incompetence which will stand in your favour. Needless to say, keep all reports / bills / details of works carried out (by all parties), to supply when the time comes.

Henry Ford III

DylanII wrote: »

Another little update. I brought it to another garage and there is not only an oil leak but also a diesel leak. The breaks need to be done and it's showing three faults.

Glow.plug relay incorrect.

Turbo regulator

Overboost

That sucks but why didn't you check it over fully before buying it?

DylanII

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That sucks but why didn't you check it over fully before buying it?

I thought that it was safe buying a car with a warranty from a SIMI garage...

Stheno

DylanII wrote: »

Another little update. I brought it to another garage and there is not only an oil leak but also a diesel leak. The breaks need to be done and it's showing three faults.

Glow.plug relay incorrect.

Turbo regulator

Overboost

I'd be concerned at having a turbo fault on that car.

theteal

Sorry OP, they'll easily shut down and open again under a new name a week later, you're not going to get far with this. I thought most people knew not to go near those car sales places on Ballymount.

ScouseMouse

I have lost track of the amount of threads about Ballymount and Red Cow car dealers. When I saw this I thought Barclay cars had renamed again.

MarkAnthony

Getting a judgement in the SCC (it hurts for me to use that acronym it's a sodding procedure in the DC - anyway) is one thing. Enforcing it is another, these* lads are experts in setting up selling a few cars and shutting down and setting up again.

*as is dodgey dealers rather than the named dealer lest I get a taste of defending a defamation claim.

ScouseMouse

I still think the OP should get all this in writing from the AA or someone respectable, and park outside the place handing out leaflets. Anybody seeing that would turn around and walk away from the place.

That would make them think again.

tanko

DylanII wrote: »

I thought that it was safe buying a car with a warranty from a SIMI garage...

I wonder what kind of process a garage/dealership has to go through to get accreditation from SIMI??:rolleyes:

MarkAnthony

ScouseMouse wrote: »

I still think the OP should get all this in writing from the AA or someone respectable, and park outside the place handing out leaflets. Anybody seeing that would turn around and walk away from the place.

That would make them think again.

I used to work for a crap computer company. A guy did this and it was our best day in ages, people 'rubber necking' into the place to see what was going on. People are idiots

I'd also not put it past some asshat dealers to have someone roll by and give the 'protester' a few slaps.

power pants

kbannon wrote: »

Really?

Indeed, thought posting about breaking the law was not condoned on here.