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Heat Recovery Ventilation,the best DIY project..."probably" !

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Please se below my temperatures from yesterday,6pm,with by-pass enabled.

    Make sure that by-pass is on "2"...and speed of the motors is at 99% both for in and out while the speed / air flow is on 3.
    You can check if the by-pass works by opening the main front door,fool the kill switch adn someone keeps while pressing the by-pass on and off on the touch screen,watch the top left corner for the mechanism to move...

    Enjoy it.


    452775.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭randombar


    rolion wrote: »
    Please se below my temperatures from yesterday,6pm,with by-pass enabled.

    Make sure that by-pass is on "2"...and speed of the motors is at 99% both for in and out while the speed / air flow is on 3.
    You can check if the by-pass works by opening the main front door,fool the kill switch adn someone keeps while pressing the by-pass on and off on the touch screen,watch the top left corner for the mechanism to move...

    Enjoy it.


    452775.jpg

    Does that mean the air going back in was 32 deg?

    Sorry dont have one myself just interested.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    Does that mean the air going back in was 32 deg?

    Sorry dont have one myself just interested.

    That is a DIY made...quite handy.

    Flow from outside: 32.3
    Flow from rooms: 27.4
    Flow to outside: 28.8
    Flow to rooms: 31.9

    On speed 3,was doing like a big fan installed across all the house / rooms...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Solar tubes collector was at 143 degrees today...with the HRV air suction installed at the roof level,no wonder the incoming air was so hot...

    Where is your air intake positioned !?

    452787.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭vanman99


    Pic 1 - Current Temperatures
    Pic 2 - ByPass Options
    Pic 3 - Every Thermostat in the house


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    rolion wrote: »
    893bet wrote: »
    Good luck. Have u had an Airtightness test done in your home?

    Thanks,I need it.

    Re airtightness...as is a house about 15 years old,built by some under principle "one a week,show me the cash",I paid attention to attic,doors,floor,walls and windows.

    Attic is been fully sealed and insulated with foil.Few vents for fresh air and a attic window.
    Doors,the front I'm getting a second front door installed next month while in the back,well I hope that college fees will be reduced and to build a small extension that will convert the external two doors to internal by conversion.
    Floors,all ground well insulated and UFH installed.First floor done when I've insulated the internal walls with 100mm plaster insulating boards.
    Walls,just finished external insulation on 2 sides and other 2 sides internal,creating a complete insulating areas.Left front side untouched outside,insulated only internal,I have 3 walls sides outdoor.
    Windows,I've closed the natural ventilation with sound tape and thermo tape.Replaced locks and hinges on all windows.

    I'm going to double check every square mm of external to internal exposure surface next week.

    I hope that will suffice as budget is extremely stretched out....waiting for some savings to come in first. :)
    Its a really interesting project and great to see someone take it on by themselves. How is the attic sealed and insulated with foil? Does this act as a airtightness membrane? It is still a cold attic?


  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Wartburg


    vanman99 wrote: »
    Hi, hoping this thread is still active. I have the VUT350, installed about year and a half, up to now perfect, but with the hot weather house is unbearable, i know there is a bypass for summer which I believe is activated but very stuffy clammy house, any suggestions?


    Don´t get me wrong, but why don´t you open the windows and create a "cross ventilation" early in the morning and late in the evening on a hot day? I´d leave the hrv system switched off during the day, to prevent the intake of hot air through the unit. Imo the summer bypass of the hrv is pointless if you have the air intake facing into the direct direction of the sun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭randombar


    Another year later and how are you getting on @rolion?

    All working well, thinking this will be a new project for the new year.

    Fed up of losing heat in the winter opening windows to let the fresh air in.
    Bathrooms are way too humid even with the extractor fan on (again needs a window to open)
    Could to with something to bring cooler air in in the summer too, i.e. all the curtains down before we head out to work and circulate the air during the day.

    In relation to installation, are there positions in each room the vents should go?

    Is it recommended to have air intake and outtake in each room?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Dudda


    Just to note that new building regulations on Ventilation ‘F’ came into law on the 1st November 2019. These have a strange paragraph which state the ventilation system has to be designed and installed from now on by a competent person and has to be commissioned and balanced by someone qualified by a third party.
    My understanding is this now eliminates the possibility of DIY ventilation installation. We had a outside ventilation company come in and do a presentation on their products at work and he mentioned this new regulation. I was disappointed to hear it as I think a lot of the ‘designers’ who I’ve to deal are really poor and stick vents exactly where you don’t want them to. As an architect it’s also an additional certificate we’ll be looking for now on new buildings. We’ll be looking for the commissioning certificate from an approved person.

    The regulation is Part F:
    1.2.1.10 Ventilation systems should be designed by competent designers. Systems should be installed, balanced and commissioned by competent installers e.g. Quality and Qualifications Ireland accredited or Education Training Board or equivalent. Systems, when commissioned and balanced, should then be validated by a competent person to ensure that they achieve the design flow rates. The validation should be carried out by a person certified by an independent third party to carry out this work, e.g. Irish National Accreditation Board (INAB), National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI) certified or equivalent.
    Detailed information on the installation and commissioning of ventilation systems is provided in Installation and Commissioning of Ventilation Systems for DwellingsAchieving Compliance with Part F.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭randombar


    Dudda wrote: »
    Just to note that new building regulations on Ventilation ‘F’ came into law on the 1st November 2019. These have a strange paragraph which state the ventilation system has to be designed and installed from now on by a competent person and has to be commissioned and balanced by someone qualified by a third party.
    My understanding is this now eliminates the possibility of DIY ventilation installation. We had a outside ventilation company come in and do a presentation on their products at work and he mentioned this new regulation. I was disappointed to hear it as I think a lot of the ‘designers’ who I’ve to deal are really poor and stick vents exactly where you don’t want them to. As an architect it’s also an additional certificate we’ll be looking for now on new buildings. We’ll be looking for the commissioning certificate from an approved person.

    The regulation is Part F:
    1.2.1.10 Ventilation systems should be designed by competent designers. Systems should be installed, balanced and commissioned by competent installers e.g. Quality and Qualifications Ireland accredited or Education Training Board or equivalent. Systems, when commissioned and balanced, should then be validated by a competent person to ensure that they achieve the design flow rates. The validation should be carried out by a person certified by an independent third party to carry out this work, e.g. Irish National Accreditation Board (INAB), National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI) certified or equivalent.
    Detailed information on the installation and commissioning of ventilation systems is provided in Installation and Commissioning of Ventilation Systems for DwellingsAchieving Compliance with Part F.

    Why does it eliminate DIY? Who is to say when you did a self install. If you're not planning on selling any time soon I can't see the certification police coming knocking (Don't mean to be glib, just wondering about it from a DIY perspective)


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,135 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    Why does it eliminate DIY? Who is to say when you did a self install. If you're not planning on selling any time soon I can't see the certification police coming knocking (Don't mean to be glib, just wondering about it from a DIY perspective)

    It’s amazing how quickly things change. People grow up, they have kids, they worry about what hassles they might leave their loved ones. Retrospective compliance is difficult, you get a vague caveated cert, that not every bank/solicitor will accept, and nor should they.

    Mod note: as per the forum charter, we obey the building regulations ie the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    Dudda wrote: »
    ....... As an architect it’s also an additional certificate we’ll be looking for now on new buildings. We’ll be looking for the commissioning certificate from an approved person........


    I've lost track of the changes in the regs. Are hole in the wall vents still allowed / usable in NZEB ? If so I guess there will be an increased temptation due to this new rule to stick with them rather than design in MHRV. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    There are no holes in the walls for the MHRV !
    And, i guess, if you handy enough to do it DIY I am sure you will find a company that will oversee / advise/sign off on the work if you purchase parts and "know-how" from them.

    In relation to regulations, I still have photos from the house which shows the crap and disgusted level of workmanship quality in respect to insulation. I'll try to find the thread.

    Found it H E R E .
    A joke of build quality, no insulation, and even holes from one house to another.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,380 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    Why does it eliminate DIY? Who is to say when you did a self install. If you're not planning on selling any time soon I can't see the certification police coming knocking (Don't mean to be glib, just wondering about it from a DIY perspective)

    The wording doesn't even indicate DIY is out.

    Reading it there it looks exactly like what's done in the UK. The company comes out and commissions their goods . The install can be don't by any competent third party.


    And the notion that banks will be looking for certs in an mhrv system in the first place obviously folks have never dealt with banks in Ireland.

    I'm looking at the wording there and it looks like we are emulating the UK .


  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    rolion wrote: »
    There are no holes in the walls for the MHRV !

    Does this mean you cannot install a MHRV system in a house that has a hole-in-the-wall vent?

    I have an A3 rated house with hole-in-the-wall in living room for stove and ventilation is via trickle vents in the windows. Three bathrooms and utility room have extractor fans. House is two story.

    I'd like to retro fit MHRV. Is this possible?
    - Install MHRV unit in attic
    - Remove extractor fans in 2 upstairs bathrooms and feed with MHRV unit
    - Feed 3 bedrooms upstairs with MHRV
    - Take one feed from MHRV down from attic, through hotpress, and into kitchen\living room area (open plan)
    - Seal up all trickle vents in windows
    - Leave extractor fan in downstairs bathroom and utility room
    - Leave hole-in-the-wall vent in living room area


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    @metricspaces

    I cannot comment on your home.
    I only wish you good luck and enjoy it.

    My project have been completed in a forced way due to my another DIY project of insulation and crappy living conditions after.

    One major thing that i advise is to run a "blower fan" test !
    I searched online and the clip below is the first result that came up:



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭randombar


    rolion wrote: »
    @metricspaces

    I cannot comment on your home.
    I only wish you good luck and enjoy it.

    My project have been completed in a forced way due to my another DIY project of insulation and crappy living conditions after.

    One major thing that i advise is to run a "blower fan" test !
    I searched online and the clip below is the first result that came up:


    I'm actually thinking now that I've decided to go ahead with the installation it might be worth doing the blower test after installation, rather than before. Don't want to do it before and introduce more during installation that aren't then found.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    I'm actually thinking now that I've decided to go ahead with the installation it might be worth doing the blower test after installation, rather than before. Don't want to do it before and introduce more during installation that aren't then found.

    If you can afford to do it before,you may be able to repair/fix/improve at the same messing time.
    Dont wanna touch on the cost / budget size either...easier to hide it in the initial plan than after... easy to hide a thousands between thousand than thousand between nothing !


    After, your wife may not approve and you will get all the verbal things that you try to avoid it prior work anyway ! ;)

    502632.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭randombar


    rolion wrote: »
    If you can afford to do it before,you may be able to repair/fix/improve at the same messing time.
    Dont wanna touch on the cost / budget size either...easier to hide it in the initial plan than after... easy to hide a thousands between thousand than thousand between nothing !


    After, your wife may not approve and you will get all the verbal things that you try to avoid it prior work anyway ! ;)

    502632.jpg

    This is very true, I think I'd have to arrange it all for roughly the same time as I would need to block up vents etc. before the install anyway and blower test. Don't really want to do that too far away from when I install everything.

    Any recommendations for someone to do the blower test in Cork?


  • Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭CitizenFloor


    I started another thread in relation to DIYing an MVHR, and Part F certification - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058056735

    I didn't realise it was discussed here previously. I have put a deposit down on a Unit, and planning to DIY in the next few weeks....

    Is it definitive that if I have the company commission it, I can get my Part F cert, assuming its installed correctly etc.

    The language does seem to be open to interpretation.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    I started another thread in relation to DIYing an MVHR, and Part F certification - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058056735

    I didn't realise it was discussed here previously. I have put a deposit down on a Unit, and planning to DIY in the next few weeks....

    Is it definitive that if I have the company commission it, I can get my Part F cert, assuming its installed correctly etc.

    The language does seem to be open to interpretation.

    I dont have an answer,sorry.

    What can i share is following:

    I did my house DIY system...got external insulation done by myself,cheap labour and with best materials out there in the trade shops.
    Got lots of improvements inside the house.

    The HRV has a technical listed performance of 90% in the manual.
    When i did my house BER for grants, shown that to the evaluator and he didnt believed it. Shown the temperatures graphs in the photos,the real reading from that day and he still said hmmm cannot believe it i need to check it.

    Did replaced the radiators and got DIY ground floor underfloor heating.

    Did solar tubes on the roof.

    Had the invoices from the shops for the insulation materials and the parameters for them.All the invoices for the all workings carried DIY and associated technical materials used in the work.

    In the end ,he said he cannot believe the paper and the work is done as DIY.
    He fcuked my BER rather than A3 to a B1 and ran out.

    Im not selling my house soon,maybe never but thats the reality that can get you affected there, with guys pushing pens and automated reporting software ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭randombar


    rolion wrote: »
    I dont have an answer,sorry.

    What can i share is following:

    I did my house DIY system...got external insulation done by myself,cheap labour and with best materials out there in the trade shops.
    Got lots of improvements inside the house.

    The HRV has a technical listed performance of 90% in the manual.
    When i did my house BER for grants, shown that to the evaluator and he didnt believed it. Shown the temperatures graphs in the photos,the real reading from that day and he still said hmmm cannot believe it i need to check it.

    Did replaced the radiators and got DIY ground floor underfloor heating.

    Did solar tubes on the roof.

    Had the invoices from the shops for the insulation materials and the parameters for them.All the invoices for the all workings carried DIY and associated technical materials used in the work.

    In the end ,he said he cannot believe the paper and the work is done as DIY.
    He fcuked my BER rather than A3 to a B1 and ran out.

    Im not selling my house soon,maybe never but thats the reality that can get you affected there, with guys pushing pens and automated reporting software ...

    How did you do the DIY underfloor? A big regret of mine not putting that in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    How did you do the DIY underfloor? A big regret of mine not putting that in.

    Good question !!! Ahhaaaa,very messy and hard lesson but i really enjoy it.

    Wife complained that floor very cold.
    We had timber floor already in place but fitted floating over the ground concrete floor,with little or no insulation at all...freezing fcukign cold.

    She left for a 3 weeks holiday. Time to do my way...

    So... i used the old 22mm floors as base.
    Ran a 22 foils 17mm insulation foil (aluminium and bubble wrapped thermo insulation foil,very expensive).
    Over the foil, fitted a 24mm OSB board which had the channels routed for the 12mm ufh piping.
    Over that,fitted some heat wings to disipate the piping heat.
    Over the piping, i fitted 22mm natural wood approved for ufh.

    Messy but i know i did it myself.

    I will not have a home these days without ufh at the ground level...
    There are easier ways of doing it these days, with a special plastic mesh that has already the routes for the pipe clip on system.

    503786.jpg

    503787.jpg

    503788.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭burdburd


    Partial HRV

    Any thoughts on doing a single floor ?

    I live in an old (solid wall), 3 storey, mid terrace house where the top floor has 3 x bedrooms and a shower room. all these room have or are being insulated and sealed. currently no Vents of any description in any rooms but all have access to attic above so ducting easy.

    Considering a 4 room installation to provide fresh warmed air to 3 x beds and extract damp/warm air from Shower room.

    Possible stretch to box in duct to middle floor below where there is another bedroom, shower room and an office room.

    Objective is to vent stale/humid/Co2 air and provide fresh air to sleeping rooms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭AMontague


    How does a whole house HRV system compare to installing Single Room HRV in every room. For example the Suedwind Ambientika Solo costs about €350, so for six rooms in my house it would cost €2,100 plus installation.

    What would be the downside to installing a number of Single Room HRVs in the house, compared to a Multi-room system?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,872 ✭✭✭garo


    You’ll need to find six inlets/outlets. And there may be balancing issues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,066 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    AMontague wrote: »
    How does a whole house HRV system compare to installing Single Room HRV in every room. For example the Suedwind Ambientika Solo costs about €350, so for six rooms in my house it would cost €2,100 plus installation.

    What would be the downside to installing a number of Single Room HRVs in the house, compared to a Multi-room system?

    That's an interesting bit of kit. Wonder could it be used in a classroom situation to help with the ventilation ATM, instead of opening windows and freezing everyone?
    Seems to be €299 + shipping on their own site.
    https://www.suedwind.it/en/shop/ambientika-solo-kopie


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭AMontague


    This product will supply 60m3 of ventilation per hour. The recommendation is for 25-50m3 per person per hour. So I don’t know that this would give enough ventilation for a classroom. Probably better than nothing.

    It would be worthwhile getting a CO2 monitor for your classroom to give an indication of how well the classroom is ventilated. CO2 levels of 800ppm are good. When it starts getting above 1,500ppm the ventilation levels are not good enough. I’ve found the Netatmo CO2 monitor very useful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,872 ✭✭✭garo


    This does look interesting for a domestic setting. I assume it can be fitted in existing ventilation holes in the wall?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭AMontague


    A standard vent is 4 inches, this vent is 6 inches, so needs a bit of work to drill a bigger vent.

    I installed a similar device from Kair in my bathroom a few years ago. Works very well. The Ambientika looks better again.


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