Parking in disabled spots.

JumpShivers

I know this has been mentioned before, but I think a thread to rant about it would be nice.

I see it on an almost daily basis with my OH. Parking spaces which are extra-wide and conveniently placed for the sole use of people with disabilities or reduced mobility are usually almost fully occupied by vehicles with not a pass in sight. Quite often sloppily parked too.

My OH often waits for an offender to come out and state at him / her but to no avail.

This is actually a persistent problem at his local supermarket (can I name it here?) whine he has contacted by email and phone and in person in several occasions.

The replies he gets are usually along the lines of "Well, the spaces are self-policing so we usually rely on the honesty of our customers". He also got a reply saying that the security man would throw an eye out and ask offenders to move but he has seen the security man standing there having a smoke at the spaces while people swan out if the cars clearly abusing the spaces.

Why are people such selfish dickheads? My OH cousin has also been seen using his fathers pass? When questioned, he just says, "well, I'm entitled to use it".

The card is for the person, not for the car! Why does the holders picture not feature on the card anymore? This would prevent abuse.

I'm sick of this and so is my bf. would the Irish Wheelchair Association lend a listening ear to this?

Sorry for the rant.

eternal

The picture is on the card.

biko

We need more of these

Judge bans woman from driving for six months after parking in disabled spot

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sixmonth-driving-ban-for-disabled-bay-parking-30281430.html

JumpShivers

eternal wrote: »

The picture is on the card.

Are you sure? I don't think it is.

eternal

JumpShivers wrote: »

Are you sure? I don't think it is.

Yeah I have one. It's on the inside though so you can't see it unless the warden asks you to show it for ID purposes.

looksee

Yes it is, its on the back, presumably for privacy/safety reasons.

eternal

Sure if you'd no picture anyone could use your card.

Ignatius in bloom

You should watch me, myself and Irene to see how you solve that problem.

Turtyturd

Can your OH solve any issues by staring at those responsible?

MrPudding

If I see some one using one without a badge I say, with a friendly coversational tone, "you know those spaces are for physically disabled people, don't you?" I love when people can't work out if they have been insulted.

MrP

kneemos

I do it just to piss off the nosy PC self righteous busy bodies.

MadDog76

Let me preface this with saying that I've never personally (nor do I ever intend to) parked in a Disabled Parking Spot ............

I think there are way too many of these spots in some locations ......... in one car park close to me there are 12 Disabled Parking Spaces .......... come on!! What are the chances of all of those being absolutely needed simultaneously!?!!

Also, some drivers who legitimately hold the Blue Badges abuse it, ie. they technically qualify as disabled therefore are entitled to a permit but don't actually need to park any closer to the door than I do nor do they need particularly wide spaces ......... I know one gentleman who has a slight heart defect so he is entitled to (and holds/uses) a permit but, even by his own admittance, doesn't actually need it.

Thirdly, and I may be wrong about this, it's not actually illegal to park in a Disabled Parking Space on private property such as a shopping centre car park is it?

MadDog76

MrPudding wrote: »

If I see some one using one without a badge I say, with a friendly coversational tone, "you know those spaces are for physically disabled people, don't you?" I love when people can't work out if they have been insulted.

MrP

How many times have you been told to "f**k off"?

JumpShivers

MadDog76 wrote: »

Thirdly, and I may be wrong about this, it's not actually illegal to park in a Disabled Parking Space on private property such as a shopping centre car park is it?

Something being legal and something being right are not the same thing.

Do you need the law to tell you what's right and what's wrong or do you not have your own moral compass

byhookorbycrook

I have , from time to time, parked behind someone in a space who isn't entitled to it and slapped up my badge on my before I hobble off (slowly), tends to get them to move pretty smartish,especially those who tell me they will only be "a minute." Apparently parents at Citywest think their little darling should not not have to walk more than 3 steps to go to the KFC there.

The worst offender in my area is the drug company van that delivers to the local pharmacy. The van actually double parks perpendicular to the the only two spaces blocking both. I have complained to gardaí and the company of the van service repeatedly, to no avail.

The Backwards Man

MadDog76 wrote: »

Let me preface this with saying that I've never personally (nor do I ever intend to) parked in a Disabled Parking Spot ............

I think there are way too many of these spots in some locations ......... in one car park close to me there are 12 Disabled Parking Spaces .......... come on!! What are the chances of all of those being absolutely needed simultaneously!?!!

Also, some drivers who legitimately hold the Blue Badges abuse it, ie. they technically qualify as disabled therefore are entitled to a permit but don't actually need to park any closer to the door than I do nor do they need particularly wide spaces ......... I know one gentleman who has a slight heart defect so he is entitled to (and holds/uses) a permit but, even by his own admittance, doesn't actually need it.

Thirdly, and I may be wrong about this, it's not actually illegal to park in a Disabled Parking Space on private property such as a shopping centre car park is it?

1.Whether there was only one or one hundred, how does the amount of them hinder your ability to go about your day unhindered?


2. That's a matter for their own conscience, not yours. A badge holder is just as likely to be an asshole as any of the rest of us.

3. Right and wrong take prcedence over legal and illegal.

kneemos

If they wonder around the supermarket for half an hour why can't they walk thirty yards to the door.
Not being provocative,just think people get way too precious about the about it.

Sir Osis of Liver.

Just back from buying milk in Aldi where a young fat couple parked up in the disabled space and managed to drag their blubbery arses the ten steps into the shop.

Is fat a disability now?

MadDog76

The Backwards Man wrote: »

1.Whether there was only one or one hundred, how does the amount of them hinder your ability to go about your day unhindered?


2. That's a matter for their own conscience, not yours. A badge holder is just as likely to be an asshole as any of the rest of us.

3. Right and wrong take prcedence over legal and illegal.

1. The more Disabled Parking Spaces there are the less "regular" parking spaces there are so yes, it can/does hinder me when spaces are difficult to find ..........

2. If the system is being visibly abused from within then it's hardly surprising that it can/will/is abused in general .........

3. Right and Wrong is down to personal opinion hence why we must make certain acts legal/illegal ......... obviously.

byhookorbycrook

MadDog76 wrote: »

1. The more Disabled Parking Spaces there are the less "regular" parking spaces there are so yes, it can/does hinder me when spaces are difficult to find ..........

2. If the system is being visibly abused from within then it's hardly surprising that it can/will/is abused in general .........

3. Right and Wrong is down to personal opinion hence why we must make certain acts legal/illegal ......... obviously.

I'm sorry, but you having to walk a little further or wait a bit longer doesn't really trump someone who can't walk any further or who can't wait (and I do mean literally CAN'T) to get to a bathroom due to disability isn't really a good enough reason.

MadDog76

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you having to walk a little further or wait a bit longer doesn't really trump someone who can't walk any further or who can't wait (and I do mean literally CAN'T) to get to a bathroom due to disability isn't really a good enough reason.

Eh ........... I think you missed my point .......... re-read my original post and come back to me.

branie2

You understand why we have clampers

MadDog76

JumpShivers wrote: »

Something being legal and something being right are not the same thing.

Do you need the law to tell you what's right and what's wrong or do you not have your own moral compass

I personally, as I stated in my original post, never have parked in a Disabled Parking Space .......... but I think the legality issue is imperative to an individual self-appointing themselves to "policing" other individual's decisions on what's right/wrong for their own personal conscience ......... you're just asking for trouble in that instance and are likely (and quite rightly) to find it eventually.

I have thought about saying something, but Curb Your Enthusiasm put me off...

http://youtu.be/sORXJLqvlLk

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

I do it just to piss off the nosy PC self righteous busy bodies.

That's nice.

I used to take three hours to get my severely disabled cousin ready for a day out, in her specially adapted van complete with permit. I'd sometimes get to a shopping centre and if it was raining, it was amazing how many disabled spaces were used by cars with no permit. On more than one occasion, we had to turn around and go home, because getting the special wheelchair out of the van was impossible in a normal space.

I'm glad you get to piss off an imaginary PC brigade. You also should bear in mind that you likely have sometimes cost a person who probably has little opportunity to get out and about in the world a precious day out away from their very insular life. I'm sure it's worth it though.

Good for you! You sure showed them.

rubadub

MadDog76 wrote: »

in one car park close to me there are 12 Disabled Parking Spaces .......... come on!! What are the chances of all of those being absolutely needed simultaneously!?!!

I wondered if any carparks have detection systems that will turn spaces on or off as needed.

e.g. say 1% of cars have disability allowance. A car park might set 2% of spaces to be disabled to be more certain people can get one. So say you have 20 spaces of of 1000, so 980 standard ones. Now if its a peak time and 979 regular ones are full and no disabled ones are being used it would just make a few available.

It could learn and predict things too. e.g. on a thursday some places have OAP specials so you can expect a lot more.

Cienciano

Almost zero reason to use one if you don't have a disabled parking permit. Laziness is the problem, people are unbelievably lazy these days.

Dreannz

I park in disabled spaces all the time.




But I'm disabled.

Pinch Flat

Cienciano wrote: »

Almost zero reason to use one if you don't have a disabled parking permit. Laziness is the problem, people are unbelievably lazy these days.

Yeah I agree we've become a very lazy car centric country where it's all me, me, me. Happens in my local spar all the time - 2 disabled spots outside the shop, they're occupied quite a lot by non badged cars. More often or not when there's spaces across from the main entrance. People are just in their own little lazy self centred bubble.

Dreannz

Also we have to drive the ugliest cars ever. I'd to trade in my lovely car for a kangoo so I can drive my wheelchair in.
I thought in my 30s I'd be cruising around in a nice Audi , but you can't drive a power chair into an Audi oh no. So here I am with my ultra cool kangoo in my disabled parking space driving out in my power chair. Oh ya life's great. Free parking close to a door the one time I get out a month.
Take it all of those who want it I'll give it away

Knine

MadDog76 wrote: »

How many times have you been told to "f**k off"?

The last time someone told me to f**k off, I ensured he came back to a clamped car.

Summer wind

It's a really scummy thing to park in a disabled parking spot if you are not disabled. I always feel so lucky when I see people in wheelchairs especially children. I couldn't imagine how hard life is for people like that. I probably wouldn't have the courage to leave the house on my own in a wheelchair not to mind go shopping.

petrolcan

When I used to drive an adapted Transit I'd quite happily park across the back of three or four cars that were parked in disabled bays without a badge.

eternal

I even feel guilty using them cos I'm not in a wheel chair. Sometimes I park just in ordinary spaces in case someone worse than me wants to park.
There was someone tonight parked taking up the only two disabled spots and they were right in the middle with no card taking up not one but two spaces out of pure cuntism.

flutered

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have , from time to time, parked behind someone in a space who isn't entitled to it and slapped up my badge on my before I hobble off (slowly), tends to get them to move pretty smartish,especially those who tell me they will only be "a minute." Apparently parents at Citywest think their little darling should not not have to walk more than 3 steps to go to the KFC there.

The worst offender in my area is the drug company van that delivers to the local pharmacy. The van actually double parks perpendicular to the the only two spaces blocking both. I have complained to gardaí and the company of the van service repeatedly, to no avail.

more than once i have parked my car in such a way as the offending vehicle cannot leave, hobble off to a vantage point and enjoy the show

Summer wind

Dreannz wrote: »

Also we have to drive the ugliest cars ever. I'd to trade in my lovely car for a kangoo so I can drive my wheelchair in.
I thought in my 30s I'd be cruising around in a nice Audi , but you can't drive a power chair into an Audi oh no. So here I am with my ultra cool kangoo in my disabled parking space driving out in my power chair. Oh ya life's great. Free parking close to a door the one time I get out a month.
Take it all of those who want it I'll give it away

This is a brilliant post. Love it:)

timthumbni

JumpShivers wrote: »

I know this has been mentioned before, but I think a thread to rant about it would be nice.

I see it on an almost daily basis with my OH. Parking spaces which are extra-wide and conveniently placed for the sole use of people with disabilities or reduced mobility are usually almost fully occupied by vehicles with not a pass in sight. Quite often sloppily parked too.

My OH often waits for an offender to come out and state at him / her but to no avail.

This is actually a persistent problem at his local supermarket (can I name it here?) whine he has contacted by email and phone and in person in several occasions.

The replies he gets are usually along the lines of "Well, the spaces are self-policing so we usually rely on the honesty of our customers". He also got a reply saying that the security man would throw an eye out and ask offenders to move but he has seen the security man standing there having a smoke at the spaces while people swan out if the cars clearly abusing the spaces.

Why are people such selfish dickheads? My OH cousin has also been seen using his fathers pass? When questioned, he just says, "well, I'm entitled to use it".

The card is for the person, not for the car! Why does the holders picture not feature on the card anymore? This would prevent abuse.

I'm sick of this and so is my bf. would the Irish Wheelchair Association lend a listening ear to this?

Sorry for the rant.

Anyone parking in a disabled space when they are not disabled have got a serious problem. I always park as far away from the supermarket entrance as I can as I don't want to risk getting door slammed anyway. I've now worked out that the biggest morons are too lazy to walk that extra 50 yards or so. I constantly see people parking in a disabled space without any badge on their car to indicate they are disabled. These people are idiots. No shame at all.

And it crosses all social divides. Plenty of fancy cars pulling up too important to think that someone less fortunate might actually need to use that space. I fell out with the wife of my best mate over this issue after seeing her park up in her fancy jeep. Her excuse of I was in a hurry didn't wash with me.

alan partridge aha

timthumbni wrote: »

Anyone parking in a disabled space when they are not disabled have got a serious problem. I always park as far away from the supermarket entrance as I can as I don't want to risk getting door slammed anyway. I've now worked out that the biggest morons are too lazy to walk that extra 50 yards or so. I constantly see people parking in a disabled space without any badge on their car to indicate they are disabled. These people are idiots. No shame at all.

And it crosses all social divides. Plenty of fancy cars pulling up too important to think that someone less fortunate might actually need to use that space. I fell out with the wife of my best mate over this issue after seeing her park up in her fancy jeep. Her excuse of I was in a hurry didn't wash with me.

Maybe they don't want to get their fancy car damaged either and with extra wide spaces they wont.

wil

kneemos wrote: »

If they wonder around the supermarket for half an hour why can't they walk thirty yards to the door.
Not being provocative,just think people get way too precious about the about it.

Quite the opposite, I think repeat offenders are way too precious about their own laziness, self importance or pigheaded ignorance.

God forbid anyone suggest they do anything other than suit themselves.

timthumbni

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Maybe they don't want to get their fancy car damaged either and with extra wide spaces they wont.

I would rather walk the 50 yards for a bit of free space in a car park rather than park in a disabled space. Call me old fashioned but whatever. Are you seriously advocating parking in disabled spaces just to avoid car door damage?

alan partridge aha

timthumbni wrote: »

I would rather walk the 50 yards for a bit of free space in a car park rather than park in a disabled space. Call me old fashioned but whatever. Are you seriously advocating parking in disabled spaces just to avoid car door damage?

Where did I advocate that ? I wouldn't call you old fashioned, there was none if any disabled parking years ago.

cournioni

timthumbni wrote: »

I would rather walk the 50 yards for a bit of free space in a car park rather than park in a disabled space. Call me old fashioned but whatever. Are you seriously advocating parking in disabled spaces just to avoid car door damage?

Agreed, I mostly park in a place where there is more space available (not in disabled spaces) as I would like to keep my car dent free if possible. I don't mind having to walk a few extra metres if it gives me that piece of mind. Some people are incredibly lazy.

Fluffy Cat 88

My husband has a disabled parking permit, his photo is on the back of it. It's not free, it's €30 and valid for 2 years.

His disability is blindness. We use it when I park in public carparks but I never park in disabled parking bays - we don't need the extra space.

timthumbni

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Where did I advocate that ? I wouldn't call you old fashioned, there was none if any disabled parking years ago.

Yes. Years ago we hadn't Internet, colour TVs etc. I'm struggling with your take on the side of having disabled spaces? Do you agree with them being reserved for the use of those who are disabled or not?

alan partridge aha

timthumbni wrote: »

Yes. Years ago we hadn't Internet, colour TVs etc. I'm struggling with your take on the side of having disabled spaces? Do you agree with them being reserved for the use of those who are disabled or not?

Absolutely, I have an aunt living abroad who needs a wheelchair and it's grand to be able to pull up to the terminal and collect her.

I was simply saying that some people might park in them as they are extra wide and won't damage their car. Never said I agreed with them.

Samaris

alan partridge aha wrote: »

I was simply saying that some people might park in them as they are extra wide and won't damage their car. Never said I agreed with them.

Anyone who thinks like that and honestly comes to the conclusion of taking a disabled space rather than walk a few extra yards needs to sort it their priorities.

"I care enough to take a space someone might desperately need or have to leave again. Oh, I don't care enough to walk a bit further, I wouldn't have brought the car out at all if I wanted to walk!"

zarquon

It's a very common occurance at any supermarket i frequent and at the local hospital. The hospital is the worst due to chronic parking issues there so people treat disabled spots as a free for all even if only visiting a patient. I am often late for treatment due to this inconsideration. On the oft chance that i actually find the driver in the car taking a space without a permit i will request they move and am usually meet with the same bewilderment that i would have the audacity to tell them to move so that i can attend my treatment. Usual excuses, i'll only be a couple of minutes, i'm visiting a patient etc. Some refuse to move so i therefore suggest they have 60 seconds to move before i park behind them blocking them in for a few hours while i undergo treatment and if they have a problem with that they can report it to the parking management and explain that they refused to move for the disabled driver.

Had a traveller take up 2 disabled spaces recently due to awful parking. His wife/partner was in the car and asked her to move as there was no parking elsewhere for me and i would be late for my treatment. I pointed out the lack of a permit for the car in question and the fact that two disabled spots were taken by this one car due to poor parking. I was promptly told to f-off and mind my own business and that the driver would be out in a few minutes so i could just f-off off and wait. I insisted i wouldn't wait and would have to block them in. I parked behind the car, pretended to fumble in the boot for 60 odd seconds to give time for the driver to be called on his phone and them began to hobble away on my crutches. I was only gone about 50 metres when the traveller came running out of the adjacent building roaring at me to move my f-ing car. I suggested he do the same and learn to park properly. He was actually seething at having to move his car and gave me abuse as i exited my now parked car and headed off for treatment. I'm fairly certain he waited until i was out of site and them just parked properly back into the adjacent disabled spot that he had no right being in.

People who park in disabled spots whilst in perfect health are scumbags. People who are challenged on this by disabled people and react as if they are in the right are something beyond scum which i cannot say here for fear of an infraction.

The example above highlights the sense of entitlement people have and the fact there are those in the world that value there own comfort at the expense of everyone else. Then there are morons in this thread who actually have the balls to try and justify this sort of thing because it does take balls to show utter contempt towards those of us with major debilitating struggles in life.

There are also those ars3hol3s who think they are clever enough to just tread the line by parking perpendicular to the disabled spot just beyond the parking lines. Yes, they are technically not parked in the spot, but they are still blocking it. I see this all the time at the local tesco and dunnes where people treat the disabled parking area as a drop off and waiting point and then act all frustrated when i indicate to move in and wave them to move on from blocking the space.

The spots are simply not policed and as stated earlier in this thread, people are expected to self police so therefore i urge my fellow disabled drivers to start blocking these ignorami in or at least threatening such action if they happen to be present. Only if these culprits experience inconvenience will their experience shape their atitudes and change their practises. Expecting lazy, entitled, selfish people to act with compassion towards those less fortunate is a futile exercise.

lawred2

JumpShivers wrote: »

I know this has been mentioned before, but I think a thread to rant about it would be nice.

I see it on an almost daily basis with my OH. Parking spaces which are extra-wide and conveniently placed for the sole use of people with disabilities or reduced mobility are usually almost fully occupied by vehicles with not a pass in sight. Quite often sloppily parked too.

My OH often waits for an offender to come out and state at him / her but to no avail.

This is actually a persistent problem at his local supermarket (can I name it here?) whine he has contacted by email and phone and in person in several occasions.

The replies he gets are usually along the lines of "Well, the spaces are self-policing so we usually rely on the honesty of our customers". He also got a reply saying that the security man would throw an eye out and ask offenders to move but he has seen the security man standing there having a smoke at the spaces while people swan out if the cars clearly abusing the spaces.

Why are people such selfish dickheads? My OH cousin has also been seen using his fathers pass? When questioned, he just says, "well, I'm entitled to use it".

The card is for the person, not for the car! Why does the holders picture not feature on the card anymore? This would prevent abuse.

I'm sick of this and so is my bf. would the Irish Wheelchair Association lend a listening ear to this?

Sorry for the rant.

Is it really that big a problem? Whenever I'm in a car park; the disabled reserved spaces are pretty much always empty. I very rarely see them occupied; by valid occupants or otherwise.

As for why are people such selfish d!ckheads?

Some people are. But most people aren't. Those that are are most definitely not worth the stress.

lawred2

zarquon wrote: »

It's a very common occurance at any supermarket i frequent and at the local hospital. The hospital is the worst due to chronic parking issues there so people treat disabled spots as a free for all even if only visiting a patient. I am often late for treatment due to this inconsideration. On the oft chance that i actually find the driver in the car taking a space without a permit i will request they move and am usually meet with the same bewilderment that i would have the audacity to tell them to move so that i can attend my treatment. Usual excuses, i'll only be a couple of minutes, i'm visiting a patient etc. Some refuse to move so i therefore suggest they have 60 seconds to move before i park behind them blocking them in for a few hours while i undergo treatment and if they have a problem with that they can report it to the parking management and explain that they refused to move for the disabled driver.

Had a traveller take up 2 disabled spaces recently due to awful parking. His wife/partner was in the car and asked her to move as there was no parking elsewhere for me and i would be late for my treatment. I pointed out the lack of a permit for the car in question and the fact that two disabled spots were taken by this one car due to poor parking. I was promptly told to f-off and mind my own business and that the driver would be out in a few minutes so i could just f-off off and wait. I insisted i wouldn't wait and would have to block them in. I parked behind the car, pretended to fumble in the boot for 60 odd seconds to give time for the driver to be called on his phone and them began to hobble away on my crutches. I was only gone about 50 metres when the traveller came running out of the adjacent building roaring at me to move my f-ing car. I suggested he do the same and learn to park properly. He was actually seething at having to move his car and gave me abuse as i exited my now parked car and headed off for treatment. I'm fairly certain he waited until i was out of site and them just parked properly back into the adjacent disabled spot that he had no right being in.

People who park in disabled spots whilst in perfect health are scumbags. People who are challenged on this by disabled people and react as if they are in the right are something beyond scum which i cannot say here for fear of an infraction.

The example above highlights the sense of entitlement people have and the fact there are those in the world that value there own comfort at the expense of everyone else. Then there are morons in this thread who actually have the balls to try and justify this sort of thing because it does take balls to show utter contempt towards those of us with major debilitating struggles in life.

There are also those ars3hol3s who think they are clever enough to just tread the line by parking perpendicular to the disabled spot just beyond the parking lines. Yes, they are technically not parked in the spot, but they are still blocking it. I see this all the time at the local tesco and dunnes where people treat the disabled parking area as a drop off and waiting point and then act all frustrated when i indicate to move in and wave them to move on from blocking the space.

The spots are simply not policed and as stated earlier in this thread, people are expected to self police so therefore i urge my fellow disabled drivers to start blocking these ignorami in or at least threatening such action if they happen to be present. Only if these culprits experience inconvenience will their experience shape their atitudes and change their practises. Expecting lazy, entitled, selfish people to act with compassion towards those less fortunate is a futile exercise.

Personally speaking; if my child was in need of urgent medical help and the only parking space available in the hospital was a disabled one, I'd probably be taking it.

However; people who take this space for no reason other than laziness are indeed assholes.

inforfun

There are so many "special" parking places at some parkings, it is sometimes hard to find a spot for a childless, able bodied person.

I will never park in a spot for the disabled though. The parent parking however i have no problem with to park in there, certainly not if it is somewhat later in the evening.

Medusa22

I have a disabled badge, but I have a condition that isn't visible, if you were to look at me you'd have no idea that there is anything wrong with me. I always check to see if someone has a disabled badge before I would say anything to them, as they might look perfectly well but have an illness that isn't visible. I don't always use my badge, because some days I feel well enough to walk and then my partner just parks in a regular space and I'll walk it. On the days that I am not feeling well though, being closer to wherever I'm going really makes a difference to me.

Edited to say that I often get dirty looks or somebody commenting that I shouldn't be parked in a disabled space, even though I have a badge, because I'm able to walk. One woman threatened to call the guards and took down my badge number, I told her she was welcome to ring them, because I have a legitimate badge. One time I was coming back from the pharmacy with a full bag of medication and I had a woman rant at me for parking in a disabled space, I went absolutely nuts at her, shaking my bag of medication from the pharmacy at her :P