1.4 tsi - 122 bhp

obi604

Hi,

This is specifically in regard to the *** 122 bhp *** version of the 1.4 tsi / 1.4 tfsi engine found in VW Golf, Seat Leon, Audi A3 etc

( And yes I know the 1.4 tsi can come in 140, 160 and 170 bhp > but I am not asking about these )

So, in regard to the 122 bhp version - do these engines suffer from timing chain stretch ?

jca

No not as badly as their higher power relations.

John T Carroll

obi604 wrote: »

Hi,

This is specifically in regard to the *** 122 bhp *** version of the 1.4 tsi / 1.4 tfsi engine found in VW Golf, Seat Leon, Audi A3 etc

( And yes I know the 1.4 tsi can come in 140, 160 and 170 bhp > but I am not asking about these )

So, in regard to the 122 bhp version - do these engines suffer from timing chain stretch ?

You will get some very informed opinion/information/pictures in page 2 of "Golf MK5 TSI Timing Chain Issue"
One of my family has a 2008 Passat 1.4 TSI (122 BHP) from new with 180K Kms up with no issues, however as she intends to keep the car for a long time I offered to subsidise the cost of the precautionary fitting of a new chain etc but the main dealer here seems to think that that's more or less crazy..... strange because if you look at one of the pictures in the above Thread you will see why I think it should be changed.
If buying used, I would make sure that the car has a full service history as the correct oil/change intervals must certainly play some/big part in the longevity or otherwise of this item.

obi604

John T Carroll wrote: »

You will get some very informed opinion/information/pictures in page 2 of "Golf MK5 TSI Timing Chain Issue"
One of my family has a 2008 Passat 1.4 TSI (122 BHP) from new with 180K Kms up with no issues, however as she intends to keep the car for a long time I offered to subsidise the cost of the precautionary fitting of a new chain etc but the main dealer here seems to think that that's more or less crazy..... strange because if you look at one of the pictures in the above Thread you will see why I think it should be changed.
If buying used, I would make sure that the car has a full service history as the correct oil/change intervals must certainly play some/big part in the longevity or otherwise of this item.

Thanks for reply, it seems they are just trouble, even the 122 bhp version.

Any body know if the 1.4 tFsi engine in the Audi A3 is the exact same as the one in the golf/Leon ?

George Dalton

It's the same engine yes.

The 122bhp version is generally reliable in our experience.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

It's the same engine yes.

The 122bhp version is generally reliable in our experience.

Thanks George. I'm undecided, I would go out and buy a 2008 seat Leon in the morning but seems like even the 122 bhp version is a ticking time bomb.

Is the chain something that could be inspected before a purchase by simply looking at it / listening to it. Or is it more complicated than that ?

George Dalton

It can't be inspected.

It won't be noisy unless it is really really bad.

I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that they are a ticking time bomb tbh.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

It can't be inspected.

It won't be noisy unless it is really really bad.

I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that they are a ticking time bomb tbh.

Well if I were to buy one and the chain has to be replaced in a year, that's a ticking time bomb I suppose.

George Dalton

Yes but chain issues are rare on the 122bhp engine. Look at the poster above who has a 2008 with 180k kms on it and no issues.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

Yes but chain issues are rare on the 122bhp engine. Look at the poster above who has a 2008 with 180k kms on it and no issues.

Fair enough. But he still seems worried about potential issues.

So do you think it's worth taking a risk on the 122 bhp ?

George Dalton

I'd have no problem buying one.

But if you aren't happy with the idea then you probably shouldn't buy one. I see it all the time with people where if they have a preconceived idea about a car then they will never be satisifed with how it behaves, even if the car itself is faultless.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

I'd have no problem buying one.

But if you aren't happy with the idea then you probably shouldn't buy one. I see it all the time with people where if they have a preconceived idea about a car then they will never be satisifed with how it behaves, even if the car itself is faultless.

Your a mechanic though ; )

Have you had any 122 bhp versions in for timing chain issues at all ?

jca

I've 98k kms on my 122bhp TSi and not a bother on it. It's a 09 octavia with a full service history. I think service history is very important with these engines.

obi604

jca wrote: »

I've 98k kms on my 122bhp TSi and not a bother on it. It's a 09 octavia with a full service history. I think service history is very important with these engines.

How often is a decent service interval on these - every 15,000 km ?

John T Carroll

obi604 wrote: »

How often is a decent service interval on these - every 15,000 km ?

I change the oil/filter on my daughters car every 10 months with an average interval of around 20K kms so 15K would be fine in my opinion.

finalfurlong

as said previous thread i found using the castrol edge 5w30 oil and keepig intervals gave trouble free 3 years on my 08 passat.glad that car has been ok for you, john.I remember you asking about that on last thread a while back.

jca

I only have mine a year and a half but I'm getting it serviced every year which will equate to approx every 10k

obi604

finalfurlong wrote: »

as said previous thread i found using the castrol edge 5w30 oil and keepig intervals gave trouble free 3 years on my 08 passat.glad that car has been ok for you, john.I remember you asking about that on last thread a while back.

Good to hear. Presume yours is the 122 bhp version.

obi604

Also. Any comments on the MPG ?

jca

obi604 wrote: »

Also. Any comments on the MPG ?

Mine is the 7 speed DSG mid to low thirties around town rising rapidly to 45 plus on any kind of a decent journey. All my figures are calculated by brimming the tank each time.

finalfurlong

obi604 wrote: »

Good to hear. Presume yours is the 122 bhp version.

Yes.found it excellent in every way.mpg 45 average so really an excellent buy.get service history and I would have no worries about the 122 tsi in any vw/seat/skoda/audi.Like all cars doing an interval oil change between services ie after 7500 kms helps engine-but be sure to use the right oil-vws always use the Castrol syntethic oil for that engine

obi604

finalfurlong wrote: »

Yes.found it excellent in every way.mpg 45 average so really an excellent buy.get service history and I would have no worries about the 122 tsi in any vw/seat/skoda/audi.Like all cars doing an interval oil change between services ie after 7500 kms helps engine-but be sure to use the right oil-vws always use the Castrol syntethic oil for that engine

The MPG figures seem to be very good.

mmmm, Irish people are not good at interval oil changes

Stallingrad

obi604 wrote: »

Also. Any comments on the MPG ?

6.9l per 100, not far off my previous diesel. I get the oil changed very 10K which in my case is about every 10 months. Have gone with VW since new (2011) as I find their €150 service good value.

jca

Mine was serviced with skoda from the start so I'll stick with them I'm hoping it will help when I want to trade it in. There's no real point in me doing an intermediate oil service as my annual mileage is normally very low.

obi604

besides the timing chain(which should be ok), any other issues with this 1.4 tsi 122 bhp engine

Stallingrad

You need to watch the oil, 1 litre every 10,000km is normal. Not aware of any other issues.

Leonard Hofstadter

That really shouldn't be considered an acceptable rate of fuel consumption. Now if it's something with over 150,000 miles fair enough, but a fairly new petrol engine should use less than a litre of oil between services (which are usually every 15-20k km on most cars).

John T Carroll

captainspeed wrote: »

That really shouldn't be considered an acceptable rate of fuel consumption. Now if it's something with over 150,000 miles fair enough, but a fairly new petrol engine should use less than a litre of oil between services (which are usually every 15-20k km on most cars).

That seems pretty accurate, daughter's takes 0.5 to 0.75 Ltrs between services, every 10 months/18K to 20K Kms. with 180 K Kms up.

George Dalton

John T Carroll wrote: »

That seems pretty accurate, daughter's takes 0.5 to 0.75 Ltrs between services, every 10 months/18K to 20K Kms. with 180 K Kms up.

How many would it take if you weren't checking it though? Probably wouldn't see too many oil changes either....

[/sexism] :pac:

John T Carroll

George Dalton wrote: »

How many would it take if you weren't checking it though? Probably wouldn't see too many oil changes either....

[/sexism] :pac:

Yes, I'd say that's not far off the mark, of course a lot of motorists think that the low level alarm is "time enough" to top up, its the same mentality if the car is using a drop of oil, they wait until there is literally a cup full in the sump and then top up.

jca

Mine doesn't use a drop luckily enough.

John T Carroll

jca wrote: »

Mine doesn't use a drop luckily enough.

The only car that I could never see any real sign of a change in the oil level was a VW Beetle I owned, this had oil change intervals of 3K miles as it had no filter, just a mesh strainer in a cover in the sump but it did have an oil cooler.

jca

Has the chain been dropped in favour of a belt on all the tsi engines? I'm almost certain the 1.2 tsi has gone to belt but don't know about the larger engines.

obi604

Just on this again.

Does anybody have a rough idea of the cost of replacing the chain on a 1.4 tsi with 122 bhp

I mean TOTAL cost, parts, labour, vat etc.

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

Just on this again.

Does anybody have a rough idea of the cost of replacing the chain on a 1.4 tsi with 122 bhp

I mean TOTAL cost, parts, labour, vat etc.

Anyone have any rough idea of the costs here?

jca

obi604 wrote: »

Anyone have any rough idea of the costs here?

I don't think anyone here has actually gotten the job done. Try a pm to George Dalton he's done a few of the higher bhp engines. I think it costs around €1300 all in. The parts list for the job is quite extensive comprising of, chain, tensioner,modified oil pickup pipe, modified turbo oil pipe, gaskets, gasket goo, etc etc

obi604

jca wrote: »

I don't think anyone here has actually gotten the job done. Try a pm to George Dalton he's done a few of the higher bhp engines. I think it costs around €1300 all in. The parts list for the job is quite extensive comprising of, chain, tensioner,modified oil pickup pipe, modified turbo oil pipe, gaskets, gasket goo, etc etc

Thanks JCA. at least I have some kind of indication now.

Didn't know if 1k or 4K etc.

alan partridge aha

Are the 122 any good to pull an 8 * 4 trailer, I have an 02 100bhp TDI Bora and it can pull it no bother.

obi604

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Are the 122 any good to pull an 8 * 4 trailer, I have an 02 100bhp TDI Bora and it can pull it no bother.

No clue. Sure if the Bora can pull it no bother, just stick with that !!

alan partridge aha

obi604 wrote: »

No clue. Sure if the Bora can pull it no bother, just stick with that !!

Know what you are saying but it is getting a bit long in the tooth + the tax is a killer.

John T Carroll

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Are the 122 any good to pull an 8 * 4 trailer, I have an 02 100bhp TDI Bora and it can pull it no bother.

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Know what you are saying but it is getting a bit long in the tooth + the tax is a killer.

If I was pulling a 8X4 trailer habitually I would opt for a diesel, having said that the 1.4 (123 BHP) TSI develops its maximum torque between 1500 and 4000 RPM and is a very flexible engine with its 6 speed box, I drive one very regularly and on a fairly steep hill near me, it can pull like a train in 4th gear, from not quite as low as 1500 RPM...more like 1600/1700 RPM, all the way up, overall this Passat is a lovely car to drive but always remember that its horses for courses and one could be discussing? the pros/cons of Diesel vs Petrol until the cows come home and even longer.

George Dalton

obi604 wrote: »

Just on this again.

Does anybody have a rough idea of the cost of replacing the chain on a 1.4 tsi with 122 bhp

I mean TOTAL cost, parts, labour, vat etc.

€750 or so in an independent garage. More in a main dealer.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

€750 or so in an independent garage. More in a main dealer.

Thanks George. Not too bad. A timing belt nearly costs this amount.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

€750 or so in an independent garage. More in a main dealer.

Also. A silly question.

So the chain is being replaced due to it wearing or being loose or whatever........ sounds like a design flaw really - but that's another story.

In regard to the replacement chain - is it the exact same one or is it replaced with a slightly different one - so the problem does not happen again.

jca

I think the replacement parts are modified to prevent re-occurence of the problem.

obi604

jca wrote: »

I think the replacement parts are modified to prevent re-occurence of the problem.

Thanks JCA.

does anyone know for sure ?

finalfurlong

JCA-thry are a stronger type-vw did the job on my golf tsi-see previous post-and the revised chain,pulleys and tensioners are a better job by far and have stopped the problem with the tsi engine chain failure.Get water pump replaced as well if you can as labour costs for doing that on its own are high and it is easier don when chain is being replaced

obi604

finalfurlong wrote: »

JCA-thry are a stronger type-vw did the job on my golf tsi-see previous post-and the revised chain,pulleys and tensioners are a better job by far and have stopped the problem with the tsi engine chain failure.Get water pump replaced as well if you can as labour costs for doing that on its own are high and it is easier don when chain is being replaced

How much did that cost you?
PM me if you want.

finalfurlong

Eve though car was 7 mths out of warranty vw gave goodwill of 80% on parts ad 70% on labour so bill was reasonable enough-From recolection total origina quote was 1050 for chain fitted and 250 fr water pump fitted at same time.I paid 280 for lot after goodwill.Strangely dealer went off to contact vw re goodwill b efore they contacted me which would suggest they were all too aware of design fault in tsi.

obi604

OP here. I was looking at a 2008 Seat Leon 1.4 tsi, 122 bhp manual.

I decided to mail an independent garage with a good reputation to see what they would charge for replacing the timing chain, just in case ! sent them the Reg etc

Their reply was this:

"this vehicle with the CAXC engine is known for having timing chain and other issues.

I am sorry but we really couldn’t recommend the purchase of a vehicle with that engine, they really were one of the less reliable VW engines of the last ten years and we’d be reluctant to carry out major work on this particular engine.

Sadly, we cannot quote for this work."


I know only one opinion but I'm totally put off this car now. Anyone have any more comments ?

obi604

OP here. I was looking at a 2008 Seat Leon 1.4 tsi, 122 bhp.

I decided to mail an independent garage with a good reputation to see what they would charge for replacing the timing chain, just in case ! sent them the Reg etc

Their reply was this:

"this vehicle with the CAXC engine is known for having timing chain and other issues.

I am sorry but we really couldn’t recommend the purchase of a vehicle with that engine, they really were one of the less reliable VW engines of the last ten years and we’d be reluctant to carry out major work on this particular engine.

Sadly, we cannot quote for this work."

I know only one opinion but I'm totally put off this car now. Anyone have any more comments ?