#PeoplesDebate #VinB #ShoutyTime

Nokia6230i

Peoples Debate for the Carlow-Kilkenny Constituency on in the (Woodford) Dolmen Hotel (next) Monday night the 21st of September.

No Tickets reqd.

Audience expected to assemble at 7pm for an 8pm start to recording (or earlier if possible cos Vinny has to be fed & watered before his 11pm Show!).

Programme airs Wednesday the 23rd of September from 10pm to 12 Midnight.

road_high

A magnet for every loon going. I wouldn't even watch it let alone go along.
All the same crap and whiners ad nauseum with their conspiracy theories...Irish water, the bankers, Denis Obrien in circles. Yawn.

Captain Havoc

road_high wrote: »

A magnet for every loon going. I wouldn't even watch it let alone go along.
All the same crap and whiners ad nauseum with their conspiracy theories...Irish water, the bankers, Denis Obrien in circles. Yawn.

It's so true, people worry about crap that's beyond their control or has little effect on their lives, also blaming things that have no relevance to their lives for their own live's mismanagement/ misfortune. I was going on a bit about that until my brother said it to me and I realised that the further crap happens away from my doorstep, the less I should care about it.

foxcoverteddy

Sorry my friends, yes of course there are always those who like to disrupt genuine concerns with as you say crap, however we get this on Boards so nothing new, one has to ignore such attempts to derail the freedom of speech. I honestly believe that most of those who take the trouble to post have some very valid views. If you stay away and do not contribute then we are being subservient to the trash at the bottom of the pile.
Foxy in political mode should half the Dail be there?

catbear

I look forward to moans about nonuniform paving in Kilkenny on the VB show.

Nokia6230i

Why didn't JP/Pat get the pothole filled outside of my little Johnny/Marys School?

Am real worried this is the type of debate we'll get Monday night; don't want the constituency embarrassed and if that shower of either of the counties anti water charges movement rock up we could be humiliated on national TV!

catbear

No

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Why didn't JP/Pat get the pothole filled outside of my little Johnny/Marys School?

Am real worried this is the type of debate we'll get Monday night; don't want the constituency embarrassed and if that shower of either of the counties anti water charges movement rock up we could be humiliated on national TV!

No, the only people humiliating themselves will be those who believe free speech includes physical intimidation of those with differing or impartial opinions.

I bet the Gardai will be either on standby or actually present after recent disruptions at this show.

Faugheen

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Why didn't JP/Pat get the pothole filled outside of my little Johnny/Marys School?

Am real worried this is the type of debate we'll get Monday night; don't want the constituency embarrassed and if that shower of either of the counties anti water charges movement rock up we could be humiliated on national TV!

Can't be any worse than the Waterford one, in fairness.

RobertKK

Wonders if it will be a series of 'Daithi, please stay quiet' and 'Daithi, Please stop interrupting people' as it was for the by election debate on VinB.
Maybe Daithi will be banned.

catbear

RobertKK wrote: »

Wonders if it will be a series of 'Daithi, please stay quiet' and 'Daithi, Please stop interrupting people' as it was for the by election debate on VinB.
Maybe Daithi will be banned.

Daithi does come with a health warning!

road_high

RobertKK wrote: »

Wonders if it will be a series of 'Daithi, please stay quiet' and 'Daithi, Please stop interrupting people' as it was for the by election debate on VinB.
Maybe Daithi will be banned.

The calibre of candidates was truly autricious, culminating in the election of Bobby Alyward which was the ultimate embarrassment.

Cabaal

road_high wrote: »

The calibre of candidates was truly autricious, culminating in the election of Bobby Alyward which was the ultimate embarrassment.

To be fair, he was only put forward because McGunniess wanted to protect his patch...gota keep things good for when the son wants to run after all.

Also from what I understand both Alyward and McGunniess voted no in May as well....don't want to upset the mass goers

road_high

Cabaal wrote: »

To be fair, he was only put forward because McGunniess wanted to protect his patch...gota keep things good for when the son wants to run after all.

Also from what I understand both Alyward and McGunniess voted no in May as well....don't want to upset the mass goers

But the next day we had John Mc on KCLR praising yes voters and a local chap from Freshford that had spoken of his experiences growing up. So yea, he'll blow whatever way he feels the wind is blowing. But if people are stupid enough to vote FF again after how they ran the country last time, it's their own funeral.
I'm voting FG next time and making no bones about it as they are the only ones that can properly manage the country and the economy. I'm very happy with what they did with the sham FF handed then in early 2011 and they moved on liberal issues like SSM which backward and gutless FF wouldn't touch, for fear of hurting their massgoers (which thankfully are reducing ).
So these ANother nutters and welfare junkies can "debate" all they like about about social justice and outrage about so called "austerity", I for one won't be listening. As a working person who pays for everything, I just want stability, growth and at last a reduction in crippling taxes. They don't offer this and never will.

Cabaal

road_high wrote: »

But the next day we had John Mc on KCLR praising yes voters and a local chap from Freshford that had spoken of his experiences growing up. So yea, he'll blow whatever way he feels the wind is blowing.

To be fair he's good at it, you can't fault him on that.
He did no campaigning for the yes side as far as I'm aware and out of all the partys I only saw Labour up with yes posters for the ref but yet he'll come on the radio and take the credit. Impressive really.

I'm voting FG next time and making no bones about it as they are the only ones that can properly manage the country and the economy. I'm very happy with what they did with the sham FF handed then in early 2011 and they moved on liberal issues like SSM which backward and gutless FF wouldn't touch, for fear of hurting their massgoers (which thankfully are reducing ).
So these ANother nutters and welfare junkies can "debate" all they like about about social justice and outrage about so called "austerity", I for one won't be listening. As a working person who pays for everything, I just want stability, growth and at last a reduction in crippling taxes. They don't offer this and never will.

To be honest I'm not going to be critical of who you vote for, its not my place nor is it anybody else. All I care about when people vote is they look at the policy's, look at whats actually been done and make an informed vote.

When it comes to FG they've made some good decisions like free GP for under 6's and they've made some bloody awful decisions like how they rolled out IW but then no party is perfect in the history of any government so you'll have that.

In some respects the same can be said for FF, Greens etc. But anyone that is dumb enough to believe that a party will deliver on everything it promises deserves all they get.

The same as anyone who makes an uninformed vote...and there's alot of them! Anyone who voted for FG in last election but doesn't agree with water charges made an uninformed vote. FG's manifesto clearly said water charges (I know cause I noted it at the time) and people voted for this policy by voting FG....then they moaned when they got it.

You can't please everyone I guess...has to be awful confusing for the political partys when people vote for stuff and then complain when they get it.

road_high

Cabaal wrote: »

To be fair he's good at it, you can't fault him on that.
He did no campaigning for the yes side as far as I'm aware and out of all the partys I only saw Labour up with yes posters for the ref but yet he'll come on the radio and take the credit. Impressive really.



To be honest I'm not going to be critical of who you vote for, its not my place nor is it anybody else. All I care about when people vote is they look at the policy's, look at whats actually been done and make an informed vote.

When it comes to FG they've made some good decisions like free GP for under 6's and they've made some bloody awful decisions like how they rolled out IW but then no party is perfect in the history of any government so you'll have that.

In some respects the same can be said for FF, Greens etc. But anyone that is dumb enough to believe that a party will deliver on everything it promises deserves all they get.

The same as anyone who makes an uninformed vote...and there's alot of them! Anyone who voted for FG in last election but doesn't agree with water charges made an uninformed vote. FG's manifesto clearly said water charges (I know cause I noted it at the time) and people voted for this policy by voting FG....then they moaned when they got it.

You can't please everyone I guess...has to be awful confusing for the political partys when people vote for stuff and then complain when they get it.

Water charges are a very minor issue for me, almost to the point of irrelevance. They'll have no bearing on how I vote as the alternative under FF/SF is far worse and water charges would be the least of my worries; I'd fear for my job tbh if either were in power. FF on post record and SF in NI. I'll pass on both. The rest are just chaotic non sense, Renua etc etc.

Given the state of the finances post-FF it was inevitable we would see a continuation of high taxes and/or the introduction of a few others. Just because Enda Kenny wasn't announcing them 24/7 doesn't really bother me at the this stage. I've pretty much made my mind after weighing up all they've done and in particular where we were after FF end of 2010. I think as we move closer to the actual voting, reality will start to dawn with a lot more people (particularly workers/contributors to society) as to where their vote is safest. That's the current govt and or in as close a shape as possible to that format.

Nokia6230i

I went.

As it happens I thought the issue of Irish Water that seems to dominate most of these Peoples Debates wasn't discussed or mentioned (& I was making copious amounts of notes throughout, maybe 4-5 Pages worth....) at all until afterwards someone said it did get a mention.

Maybe it did but it wasn't anything approaching relevance or high on the agenda.

We're a rural constituency & a figure tonight, can't verify it mind, was told to me by a politician, that 45% of People in the CW/KK Constituency already pay water rates (privately/residentially etc. I think he meant as opposed to commercially although that would, I assume include farms where the farmhouse is part of the commercial business that is a farm).

It's just not an issue in rural Ireland, even between the city, towns & villages there's a huge difference of opinion.

If anyone wants my notes ahead of the Wednesday night broadcast, PM me your emails or if any other questions just holler.

Nokia6230i

Also FYI, no sign of the Independent Republican himself!

Though Kilkennys least favourite photographer & the Citys Chief Islamophobe, Xenophobe, Homophobe and er, "Druid" was there; he was sat behind the row of declared candidates (all of the runners & riders from May bar Daithi, so including Noelie Walsh/e!) so you'll be seeing plenty of him on Wednesday night from 10.

foxcoverteddy

Perhaps someone will put me right, water charges, we have been paying charges for the past years without any protest, we have our own well, it cost us to sink it in the first place, then build a pump house, plus installing a pump and a water purification set up, which is serviced every year, the money comes from our own pocket, so why the great fuss, though I can see the quango to run IW is over the top, no doubt jobs for the boys. What was wrong with the council running water schemes, which they have done without all the ballyhoo.
Perhaps I am off tack but there appears to be very little difference between FG and FF, do voters put their cross against a candidate who they believe would be best for the job or is it my parents voted and their parents voted so I will irrespective.
Indiscriminate voting is really a sin, one is not getting the best candidate, though of the past I feel it mattered very little, the public have made some dire choices, and if taken the whole spectrum this is reflected in the local council.
One has only to look at the UK political scene, what has gone on is nothing to be proud of, in fact the establishment should be ashamed, no doubt there are genuine people, perhaps we should look at the church, a sad reflection on society, which is now paying for it's lack of morals.
At the end of these things words are invariably a lot of hot air, little seems to be accomplished.
Foxy

road_high

Grew up on a farm. Own well plus yearly cost of maintaining a well or two. Those pumps are expensive to maintain not to mention the cost of digging well. Could never get my head around this "free water" lark and the sense of entitlement attached to it. It's the usual pay for nothing's making all the noise.

catbear

Some people think the state exists so they can live at everyone else's expense.

I'm tempted to start a Santa Party to rival AAA.

road_high

catbear wrote: »

Some people think the state exists so they can live at everyone else's expense.

I'm tempted to start a Santa Party to rival AAA.

Unfortunately there's a very deeply ingrained entitlement culture going on now. It's developed the past 30 years or so in particular.

Captain Havoc

My brother is big into fair society and other leftie nonsense, which really doesn't sit well with me. My issue is that I am not wealthy but I would like to be, if you take away my opportunity (hope) to get wealthy why would I bother trying?

catbear

Captain Havoc wrote: »

My brother is big into fair society and other leftie nonsense, which really doesn't sit well with me. My issue is that I am not wealthy but I would like to be, if you take away my opportunity (hope) to get wealthy why would I bother trying?

The compromise is welfare state capitalism, everyone paying roughly the same percentage of income in return for the essentials for a basic standard of living.
Taxing someone more for earning more punishes initiative and rewards paying less tax.

Captain Havoc

catbear wrote: »

The compromise is welfare state capitalism, everyone paying roughly the same percentage of income in return for the essentials for a basic standard of living.
Taxing someone more for earning more punishes initiative and rewards paying less tax.

There are many ideals but unfortunately wherever there is money there is corruption and I believe that there will be too many corrupt for a fair society to be achieved in my lifetime.

catbear

Captain Havoc wrote: »

There are many ideals but unfortunately wherever there is money there is corruption and I believe that there will be too many corrupt for a fair society to be achieved in my lifetime.

As I said it's a compromise. It's impossible to design a system so perfect that nobody needs to be good.

RobertKK

When it came to the economy, FG/Lab implemented the FF/Troika plan with concessions received due to Greece getting concessions. Most of the plan didn't change, no bondholders were burned as they said would happen, and they didn't get rid of the Anglo debt, just pushed it into the future.
I just laugh when FG and Labour take credit for the economic recovery, they basically followed the plan given to them with some concessions thrown in.
So the economic recovery can be credited to three parties in my opinion, the FF/troika plan worked, and the FG/Lab government carried it out.
I think people should be realistic, and of the main parties these are the only parties who don't think anyone making money is somehow doing something wrong and should be extra penalised like SF and the left think they should be.
I don't have loads and loads of money in the bank but like Captain Havoc, I want to work to make myself more wealthy as each year goes by, I don't see why I should be penalised for wanting to make something happen for myself.
Even something as simple as buying an asset and selling it for a small profit, after the €1270 allowance you pay 33% capital gains tax on every € of profit. For SF, they say that is too low and should be at least 40%, there is no incentive with high taxes, I don't mind paying my bit to keep the country functioning, but I don't want to be robbed by the state either like we were with the pension levy on private pensions, a tax on money that had already being taxed and thankfully finished with this year.

People need freedom to believe they can do something, high taxes doesn't give incentive to believe, who wants to work for a thief with punitive taxes?

Cabaal

road_high wrote: »

Water charges are a very minor issue for me, almost to the point of irrelevance. They'll have no bearing on how I vote as the alternative under FF/SF is far worse and water charges would be the least of my worries; I'd fear for my job tbh if either were in power. FF on post record and SF in NI. I'll pass on both. The rest are just chaotic non sense, Renua etc etc.

Oh I agree, water charges are detraction in the grand scale of things and people seem far too obsessed with it.

On the very basic level having IW makes sense, imagine if every local authority looked after each county's electricity network? :eek:

This isn't such a crazy idea, if you go back far enough many towns in Ireland had their own little electric companies, Callan for example had one and the generator they used was based beside the old Bacon Factory near the Abbey Meadow.

But instead of retaining such an inefficient network the gov at the time used tax payer money to create the ESB which later became ESB Networks. They rolled out a proper standard electric network and they maintain it to this day.

ESB can make bulk purchases for ducting, poles, wire etc at get better value then if a small council made the purchased to cover just their area. You can apply the same benefits to having a single water utility company as well, it makes good sense in reality.

Anyway, back to other partys. Personally there are issues with every party. For example SF seem far too obsessed with uniting Ireland, this in reality is not something that can be forced and its either going to happen or not happen.

If they do want to force it then if we think we have problems now, imagine if suddenly the Irish Gov had to find approx 20billion sterling each year to run Northern Ireland...because thats what it costs the UK gov and they only get 9billion sterling in tax in return. (2012 data).

We'd be back into a recession and we'd have even more cuts to find this money, not to mention the social unrest issues that would come with having to look after Northern Ireland.

Given the state of the finances post-FF it was inevitable we would see a continuation of high taxes and/or the introduction of a few others. Just because Enda Kenny wasn't announcing them 24/7 doesn't really bother me at the this stage. I've pretty much made my mind after weighing up all they've done and in particular where we were after FF end of 2010. I think as we move closer to the actual voting, reality will start to dawn with a lot more people (particularly workers/contributors to society) as to where their vote is safest. That's the current govt and or in as close a shape as possible to that format.

Additional tax's were always a reality and were always going to happen, of course it was easy for the apposition partys to object to these after 2008 but the reality is you can't run the country if the country doesn't have any money.

I think deep down most people will acknowledge this even if it pains them to admit it, in fairness who "likes" paying tax? I sure don't.

Bowlardo

Labour Ann Phelan is embarrassing. End of her career right there. Should never gets in again

road_high

Bowlardo wrote: »

Labour Ann Phelan is embarrassing. End of her career right there. Should never gets in again

Non sense. That lady was bullied out of it tonight by rent a mob in the audience aided by V Browne. A truly disgraceful display. Sick and tired of these thugs getting platforms to hurl abuse at elected reps.
Will take her any day over what's "on offer" from the loony left there tonight, and their planted thugs.
It was an obvious witch hunt. Why were the culpable FF tds glossed over? They were the govt that handed the exchequer that shambles back in 2011. If going back to that plus SF and the rest is supposed to be some kind alternative, I for one don't see it.

catbear

road_high wrote: »

Why were the culpable FF tds glossed over? They were the govt that handed the exchequer that shambles back in 2011. If going back to that plus SF and the rest is supposed to be some kind alternative, I for one don't see it.

SF voted for the bank guarantee while Labour were the only party to vote against it.
The public are a fickle lot and deserve everything they get.

Bowlardo

road_high wrote: »

Non sense. That lady was bullied out of it tonight by rent a mob in the audience aided by V Browne. A truly disgraceful display. Sick and tired of these thugs getting platforms to hurl abuse at elected reps.
Will take her any day over what's "on offer" from the loony left there tonight, and their planted thugs.
It was an obvious witch hunt. Why were the culpable FF tds glossed over? They were the govt that handed the exchequer that shambles back in 2011. If going back to that plus SF and the rest is supposed to be some kind alternative, I for one don't see it.

I wasn't there so maybe there was a witch hunt out for her but from thetelly she came across terrible. She is member of our government and respectedparty (not the Looney left as you mentioned).

At the very least she should be able to communicate properly and convey acohesive opinion. She did not do this once!

At one stage I thought she was going to answer "That's the why!".

She reacted to the crowd unnecessarily in my opinion. I think someone fromthe crowd said (not shouted) " You didn't sufferthrough the recession" She then proceeded to hesitate, stumble andthen start going on about her niece that left for OZ and her disabled relation.It was embarrassing. This was my main reason for my initial comment.

I would agree with you that she may get because as you said it is a poorpool of people to choose from.

Conor MacLiam is spoofer of the highest order.

Adrienne Wallace is serious aggressive person she was pointing her pen ateveryone like she wanted to stab them. I also recall her patting herself on theback with a comment. Can't recall the exact wording. Gringe

Bobby Alyward is Fine fail old school so the less said about that thebetter.

Dave Fitzgerald is a pudding.

Patrick McKee has clean teeth I suppose. He is animated probably means wellbut renua? Good luck to ya. No direction\ policy there at all.

Malcolm Noonan spoke well and seems like a genuine enough article.

Kathleen Funchion I thought came across very well. A few years ago she I wouldhave said completely different but she make valid points (although in typical SinnFein manner might neglect the details) and does not rise to the grilling from Vincentetc.

McGuinness got away with not much of a grilling. He talks out of both sidesof his mouth but always seems to get in.

Actually after going through that list I will actually be voting for AnnPhelan. She would probably get my third vote. best of a bad lot.


None of our politicians will be getting any of the juicyroles no matter who is In government next so the hope is that we have someonethat won't embarrass us nationally like Hogan and McGuinness did/do regularly

catbear

Bowlardo wrote: »

None of our politicians will be getting any of the juicyroles no matter who is In government next so the hope is that we have someonethat won't embarrass us nationally like Hogan and McGuinness did/do regularly

Unfortunately the elected are so at the behest of the electorate so a politician with en embarrassing agenda is a direct reflection of their voters.

road_high

But Ann Phelan got toasted. It is like she was the lightning rod for each and everyone unpalatable decision the government (pretty much had to) to take.
I just didn't like that one iota and thought it was grossly unfair on her. The booing cheering abs abide from that planted audience was vile to behold, like a pack of animals just baying for her blood.
On the other hand the other govt tds got off lightly, as did the two stooges from FF who were active in the 07 ad ministration who were far more culpable to my mind.
She's a very decent lady, I've met her once in person and a lady she is. I didn't vote for her no 1 but she's definitely on my radar next time.

Kathleen Funchion (?) is a scripted mannequin. Stray off the pre-prepared SF spin, she's absolutely clueless. Very easy for her in that environment of like minded animals clapping her on like trained seals.

road_high

I despise those kind of comments like "you didn't suffer the recession..".
She was dead right , how did they know? On a personal level Ann had a stroke a few years back which she recovered great from. So it's not been a bed of roses for her...
It displays a total lack of respect towards an elected rep, to my mind at least. If a person has issues with policy fine, then outline clearly what you would do differently. But personalising it like that is non sensical.

Uncle Ben

Bowlardo wrote: »

Labour Ann Phelan is embarrassing. End of her career right there. Should never gets in again

She was bad enough however I thought
her director of elections was something else. Labour never told lies he says. I just hope he holds that position for the GE. He should do well for Ann.

road_high

Uncle Ben wrote: »

She was bad enough however I thought
her director of elections was something else. Labour never told lies he says. I just hope he holds that position for the GE. He should do well for Ann.

This "BROKEN PROMISES" yarn that the (so-called) opposition keep trotting out is really getting tiresome. I for one anyhow knew the country was fcuked post-FF end of 2010 and I was under no illusions how tough things were going to be to close a €23 billion deficit. I voted in someone I thought that could best turn us around, given the circumstances they've done great.
To be honest I was actually surprised how quickly thing have steadied from this post FF doomsday scenario, with core welfare and services largely maintained for core Labour voters. That huge gap had to be closed somehow, and somebody had to make some tough decisions for the sake of the country as well as try kick-start growth to encourage job growth and this reduce pressure on welfare spending.

Uncle Ben

road_high wrote: »

This "BROKEN PROMISES" yarn that the (so-called) opposition keep trotting out is really getting tiresome. I for one anyhow knew the country was fcuked post-FF end of 2010 and I was under no illusions how tough things were going to be to close a €23 billion deficit. I voted in someone I thought that could best turn us around, given the circumstances they've done great.
To be honest I was actually surprised how quickly thing have steadied from this post FF doomsday scenario, with core welfare and services largely maintained for core Labour voters. That huge gap had to be closed somehow, and somebody had to make some tough decisions for the sake of the country as well as try kick-start growth to encourage job growth and this reduce pressure on welfare spending.

See your argument would be fine and dandy except for one thing. In late 2010, Brian Lenihan invited all the opposition parties into the DOF to examine the books.

The problem for Labour is that after examining those very same books which categorised the nation as being fcuked, the LP in early 2011 came out with all those Tesco Promises or should I say lies.
Redline issues such as child benefit,.students fees and other such items were strung on poles from Malin to Mizen and from Galway to Dublin.

Are the LP now going to try and compound those lies even further by attempting to say they didn't make them?

catbear

Maybe Ann Phelan got hassle because the pack see her as having to the most to gain.

FG and FF have the local gombeen vote tied up between them so the electorate rabble put the likes of Ann Phelan as the only potential alternative through the cruelest trials.

While Kathleen Funchion grows her grassroots she is vulnerable to that support being sucked away by last minute auction politics. The easy ride she got on VB suggests she's being patronised as an also ran.

Politics is like a sausage, while most people want one they don't want to see it being made.

Faugheen

I really wish this constituency wasn't so conservative, otherwise arguably the best politician in Carlow-Kilkenny might have a chance of getting elected.

Malcolm Noonan is who I'm referring. He's smack bang on the middle. He has the social aspects of the left along with the economics of the right.

Him and David Fitzgerald were the ones who came out of the debate the strongest. McKee as well.

I felt sorry for Ann Phelan. These debates have been the platform for attacks on Labour. She has suffered. To hear people laughing at her when she said her daughter had to emigrate and that the cuts affected her family as if it didn't matter was horrific. Imagine those people having to tell their families what they did?

Adrienne Wallace was gas.

Bowlardo

glad i got this thread going a bit...still feeling bad on my over zealous comment on anne phelan when watching vinny browne .
she does seems like a genuine sort......the major parties are so well versed in the art of dodging but i do stress that none of our future elected will make a difference so in with that in mind i hope we have a few that make some genuine concise comments that get a little notice.

I think fg were terrible how they went about thing (water charges etc) but anyone turning up to my door saying that they are going away will be met with a fake laugh in their face.
FG/labour have turned it around ..they neglected the weakest in society but i think if they will get in they will now have a chance to apply the deserved funding.....although you would worry that they might now.
FF can **** off...their younger politicians might come good in 10 years but they really have to get rid of the old guard

we all know it is going to be FF and FG with two other parties i just hope the third part is from the left and can demand enough sway to make things better
If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain.”

I hope our next government has about 20% of that 20 year old in them


Don't we all?

catbear

Interesting times ahead Bowlardo.

I always thought the last election was about substituting FG for the disgraced FF, they're that interchangeable.

The landscape is blighted with too many reminders of the property bubble for FF to ever get back their preeminent position and many conservative voters will have defected to FG for good. The FF dynasties will hold their ground but without new blood they'll be increasingly male, stale and beyond the pale.

There is ground to be clawed back from both though and as unlikely as it seems now Labour may actually do better than most think, it's partly the reason they and not FG are getting a hosing from the public. The public are demanding an alternative to the two traditionalist right of centre parties but they don't want to give the far left and left over power.

There is a desire to new alternatives, Renua are a dud and as most parties have a environment portfolio the Greens as a political force are spent. The greens honest politics was always fantasist when the number one mandate from the Irish public was the self serving "what are going to do for me?".

In the end though I think FG will be the main party and although tired of Enda the people know that the heir apparent, Leo will be next up.
Health has traditionally been a political graveyard. Health is the one everyone feels strongest about and Leo seems to be effectively absorbing the usual hysteria attached with sincere aplomb.

Right now my bet is a FG/FF coalition.

Bowlardo

Taken from facebook page ‎Protest against water charges in the republic of Ireland
* please note it came up on my news feed via a friend.I actually think water charges are a valid charge but Irish water is disaster as it exist now is a sham

WHAT DID PEOPLE OF CARLOW/KILKENNY GET FOR VOTING LABOUR TD ANN PHELAN ?.
They got the most savage budget cuts in the history of the state.
WHAT DID ANN PHELAN GET WHEN THE PEOPLE OF CARLOW/KILKENNY VOTER FOR HER ?.
She got SIX HUNDRED and SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND EURO (€665,232).
So there ya go, a fair deal i suppose..

no idea where they got that figure from but it is precise it must be nearly correct.
I assume it would include travel expense and grants for her office.
Would like to know the break down for all the other TD as a comparison.
Does anyone have the breakdown for the rest of our politicians.

catbear

Did the people posting these figures provide sources?

Otherwise it's the usual hyperbole.

Bowlardo

catbear wrote: »

Did the people posting these figures provide sources?

Otherwise it's the usual hyperbole.

of course they didn't :pac:

Uncle Ben

catbear wrote: »

Did the people posting these figures provide sources?

Otherwise it's the usual hyperbole.

I suppose they don't feel they have to quote sources. They left it open for her to say 'I didn't get €650k I only got €450k ', or whatever, either way her overinflated wages and expenses get highlighted.

road_high

Bowlardo wrote: »

Taken from facebook page ‎Protest against water charges in the republic of Ireland
* please note it came up on my news feed via a friend.I actually think water charges are a valid charge but Irish water is disaster as it exist now is a sham

WHAT DID PEOPLE OF CARLOW/KILKENNY GET FOR VOTING LABOUR TD ANN PHELAN ?.
They got the most savage budget cuts in the history of the state.
WHAT DID ANN PHELAN GET WHEN THE PEOPLE OF CARLOW/KILKENNY VOTER FOR HER ?.
She got SIX HUNDRED and SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND EURO (€665,232).
So there ya go, a fair deal i suppose..

no idea where they got that figure from but it is precise it must be nearly correct.
I assume it would include travel expense and grants for her office.
Would like to know the break down for all the other TD as a comparison.
Does anyone have the breakdown for the rest of our politicians.

More populist crap from a bunch of wasters with nothing better to be doing.
One could spout the same rubbish for each and every TD in the Dail including their poor mouth brigade such as SF, Michael Fitzmaurice etc that would bankrupt us in 6 months.
They're getting desperate as the "austerity" message they peddle is fading off the radar as the normal body of society want to move on, work and grow their earnings securely. This government looking more and more like to re-elected by as the weeks pass by and minds/pockets focused on the actual reality.

road_high

It's a shame we can't access a public record of what each and everyone on benifits "earns" off our taxes. Now that would be interesting indeed.

Uncle Ben

road_high wrote: »

It's a shame we can't access a public record of what each and everyone on benifits "earns" off our taxes. Now that would be interesting indeed.

All of the SW rates are available online for all to see.