Mazda RX-8 - Am I missing something?

Mister-M5

Hey folks,

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.

Considering changing my car and not spending a crazy amount of money. I've been driving a very basic 1.4 Civic and was hoping to get something a little newer, a little faster and with a bit of spec on it.

I was initially looking at 06/07 Golf GTIs and Civic Type Rs but then I came across some Mazda RX-8s on AutoTrader UK. They seem awfully cheap for the amount of car you get. This is just one example:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507034882005?engine-size-cars=1l_to_1-3l&search-target=usedcars&radius=1500&model=rx-8&price-to=4000&keywords=leather&make=mazda&maximum-mileage=up_to_50000_miles&seller-type=trade_adverts&sort=default&postcode=nn73at&page=1&quantity-of-doors=4&onesearchad=used&logcode=p

I only drive about 2500 miles per year so I thought running these might not be too bad. I spoke to some friends (crazy car enthusiasts), who advised to stay away from the rotary engines, but realistically, they haven't had any first hand experience with them, just hearsay. They also said that to get them to move at all, you would need to be very fond of revving the pistons out through the bonnet.

I've read some reviews from owners in the UK and the vast majority are very positive.

I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light on it? Someone suggested a Honda S2000 alternatively.

Would appreciate any advice/suggestions.:D

duploelabs

You're taxed very highly on them, they drink fuel and, and depreciate like a stone. That said, one of the best, most-fun cars I've ever driven. No issues with the rotary engine, until my mum's friend moved the car when I was away and didn't clear the pipes before the engine was warmed up when he killed the engine. Ended up costing 800 quid in repairs

Mister-M5

duploelabs wrote: »

You're taxed very highly on them, they drink fuel and, and depreciate like a stone. That said, one of the best, most-fun cars I've ever driven

Thank you for the info. A work colleague mentioned the tax too. With regard to the depreciation, considering that I'm at the bottom of the scale, as in, buying it while it has already depreciated, do you think they will have hit a price floor almost, by the time I would sell it?

Thanks again.

milltown

No pistons in a rotary engine

No direct experience myself either but was talking to an owner before who said they were very much an enthusiast car. As in, not a painless experience. Stuff like topping up the expensive oil twice a week. Engine prone to flooding if used for short journeys. Also mentioned that the engines are only reckoned to be good for 60 - 80k miles, at which point a replacement makes as much (or as little) sense as a rebuild.

B00MSTICK

duploelabs wrote:

until my mum's friend moved the car when I was away and didn't clear the pipes before the engine was warmed up when he killed the engine

As duploelabs and others say the engine/car needs to be babied and maintained exceptionally well. As the price drops the chances of a "non-enthusiast" owner using it increase dramatically and therefore might be harder to find a good one.

They come in 192 and 231BHP flavours, try go for the 231!

I think I remember the S2000 being very high in some reliability questionnaires, hopefully your Civic has been OK.
Choosing between a rotary engine and a 9,000 RPM redline is a nice place to be though!

Not sure if kids are a factor but you could squeeze a baby seat into the Rex if required.

duploelabs

I insisted that a baby seat does work in rx-8 to the ex, but at that stage 9 months of bucket seats and me getting the car sideways had killed any enthusiasm, perhaps the pregnancy had something to do it.
The flooding issue is quite easy to remember, while the engine is cool and you want to switch it off all you do is just rev it to 4,000, hold it there, and turn the key. That's the only major thing you've to remember apart from the oil.
If I didn't have to have a jeep for work, I'd be back in one in a heartbeat. Especially now that they've pretty much bottomed out in price and I won't lose my shirt in depreciation

bazz26

They are 1.3 but taxed as 1.8 here, while in principle you are being shafted a bit more by the Government, a few hundred extra in tax is hardly a deal breaker is it? It will be the smallest part of their running costs.

Ferris

You should do a search. A good few have had them on here including me. The upshot is:

- Don't go as well as an S2000 but are half the price and have 4 useable seats
- Petrol consumption for me was 17mpg
- IMO Needs somebody who can do their own simple maintenance or somebody who is prepared to use a specialist to maintain it for them.
- They require mechanical (and thermal) sympathy if used for short trips.
- Mine was reliable, very reliable in fact, I had to replace coils, engine mounts, a cat and a battery, all of which I did myself. Only the dead battery stranded me.
- They're very comfortable inside.
- Great handling, super weight distribution and cornering ability.
- Cool, cool noise - especially decatted.
- Not that fast off the line, decent diesels may beat you at the traffic lights but little will catch you on a twisty road.
- Post '06 models had a bigger starter motor which is a good idea, it can be retrofitted to earlier cars however.

Search:
http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?subforums=1&forum=47&query=rx8

Supergurrier

Only thing you are missing is seals in the wankel chamber

Probably

cerastes

duploelabs wrote: »

You're taxed very highly on them, they drink fuel and, and depreciate like a stone. That said, one of the best, most-fun cars I've ever driven. No issues with the rotary engine, until my mum's friend moved the car when I was away and didn't clear the pipes before the engine was warmed up when he killed the engine. Ended up costing 800 quid in repairs

bazz26 wrote: »

They are 1.3 but taxed as 1.8 here, while in principle you are being shafted a bit more by the Government, a few hundred extra in tax is hardly a deal breaker is it? It will be the smallest part of their running costs.

Always liked them, probably digging something up, but wasn't it possible to tax them as a 1.3?
Saw an rx-7 recently, nice looking car too, maybe better looking.

Quandary

I owned a 231bhp RX8 for a little over year. Great car, and the whole oil thing is completely over stressed, as is the engine flooding, at least from my personal experience. I bought the car with very low mileage (20k) and it was in mint condition so owning one with 70 or 80k mileage might be a different experience.

I sold the car again after clocking up another 10k miles. My round trip commute to work was 50 miles so the car was driven well each week. The fuel economy is extremely poor. Even when driving it very frugally, I could never get more than around 250 miles out of a full tank. A friend of mine owned a 320 bhp bmw M3 and he used to get the same fuel economy as me :pac:

All in all, as long as you understand that the running costs will hurt a little bit(tyres were nearly €200 a pop , fuel etc) then it's a great car to own. Nowadays you can pick a half decent one up for very little too. Driving an rx8 around a roundabout on a wet night always made me smile

In case you couldn't tell, I'd recommend one!

Best of luck.

bazz26

cerastes wrote: »

Always liked them, probably digging something up, but wasn't it possible to tax them as a 1.3?
Saw an rx-7 recently, nice looking car too, maybe better looking.

Think a Mazda dealer had to stamp a form, don't think they do it anymore though.

circadian

High tax and insurance, eats oil and engine rebuilds every 60k.

bazz26

Sure just buy a Prius so.

Toyotafanboi

bazz26 wrote: »

Sure just buy a Prius so.

you just kind of know any example you buy currently will break you though. maybe not initially, but in sub 12 months i'd reckon.

definitely toyed with the idea myself, but my balls just weren't big enough and generally I wouldn't be afraid of taking on big diy tasks or spending a fair bit on preventative maintenance. all this talk of rebuilds every so often, flooding themselves, hot starting issues and so on and so on etc and it appeared like nothing was a cheap fix.

so I decided to play it safe and buy a four banger celica. the celica has cost me near €3k in repairs in the last 9 months.

would I try an rx-8? still no. maybe maybe maybe if it had a full, genuine history. or if not i'd be budgeting the cost price of the car again for a "just encase" type situation.

Ferris

circadian wrote: »

High tax and insurance, eats oil and engine rebuilds every 60k.

- Taxed as a 1.8 pre '08, which most are, so hardly high tax.
- Insurance was less on mine was less than my subsequent 5-series estate
- Oil consumption was less than most mid 2000's BMW petrols.
- Mine was at 70k mls on an original engine when I sold it with excellent compression

You don't really know what you're talking about now don't you.

Ferris

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

would I try an rx-8? still no. maybe maybe maybe if it had a full, genuine history. or if not i'd be budgeting the cost price of the car again for a "just encase" type situation.

My experience was that Joe Duffy Mazda hadn't a clue about how to service them. They put the incorrect gear oil into the box of mine. The mazda specified engine oil was too thin and caused main bearing wear, i used different grade oil that was used on the rx7 which had the same main bearings.

Therefore I would rather buy a car from an owner who knew what they were talking about and did their own services or brought it to one of the few specialists around who you could ring and ask about the car.

DIY servicing is really do-able on these, they have a few idiosyncrasies but they're pretty simple.

Also its worth realising that the engines are easily rebuilt, unlike most piston engines which are far more difficult to rebuild.

circadian

Ferris wrote: »

- Taxed as a 1.8 pre '08, which most are, so hardly high tax.
- Insurance was less on mine was less than my subsequent 5-series estate
- Oil consumption was less than most mid 2000's BMW petrols.
- Mine was at 70k mls on an original engine when I sold it with excellent compression

You don't really know what you're talking about now don't you.

He's going from a 1.4 civic, there will be a noticeable increase in premium.

These engines are well known for needing oil changes regulary, different from a civic.

It is also well known that rebuilds are required after a low enough milage.

You may well have had a good experience and looked after it but these are things a buyer needs to know, also points made by various posters. So while you may have had a good experience, the OP needs to look carefully as one not so well looked after could be a very expensive purchase.

No need to be condescending.

MetzgerMeister

I bought a 2004 RX8 back in 2007. I still miss it. I have a huge post on here somewhere which explains everything but I can tell you this much - I sold the car to its current owner in 2011 and it's still on the original engine with perfect compression.

Oil - I'm actually sick of people saying that it drinks oil. It uses oil as part of its natural combustion process to lubricate the apex seals. It does not need an oil change as much as some say. Once a year is fine. It does of course need to be topped up as does every car.

Fuel - it is heavy on fuel but tell me this - what performance car isn't? The absolute scream of the engine at 10k revs is something to behold.

If it's post 2006 you may need to upgrade the starter, ignition coils and leads and the battery to a 70Ah. Upgrading everything and not the battery will not work as the new starter needs a 70Ah battery to spin properly.

I do a lot of maintenance on my cars myself and I did a lot of work on the RX8. It's actually a very pleasing car to work on.

On the issue of tax - the government wanted it taxed as a 2.6 due to the power it puts out, Mazda wanted it as what it is; a 1.3. The 1.8 tax was a compromise. Yes, people have successfully gotten them re-registered as 1.3s and taxed them as such but you can than the "530d 2 litre on the log-book" parade for these being picked up on and owners being charged the difference for the tax they got away with.

EDIT: HERE IT IS:

It's a great car but you really do have to be an enthusiast to own one. They are not for the fickle hearted, but by the time I sold mine, I had it set up like a normal car other than the mpg.

By that I mean it started first time every time with no hesitation at all. I did have trouble with this issue for a year and half of ownership but I sorted it myself. I did some research, bought all the parts I needed and fitted them myself.

2003, 2004 and early 2005 models came with crap starter motors. Mazda couldn't have done a better job at almost destroying the reputation of the rotary because of this. Once an RX8 has the upgraded starter motor, upgraded battery, ignition coils, HT leads and the hot leading plugs (RE7C-L), and has no compression issues, it will be fine.

A well looked after example will have very few issues if any. Your best bet is to buy one owned by an entusiast i.e. someone on irishrotary.com or the likes.

With regard to oil consumption, the harder you drive it, the more oil it will use. It burns oil as part of the combustion cycle in order to keep the rotor tips lubricated. When a rotary is starved of oil, the tips aren't lubricated and this causes them to fail hence compression issues. It's not what some make it out to be by saying "oh jaysus ya have to put more oil in than petrol". Simply not true. If you're looking at one and are wondering if it's been taken care of, the owner will keep a bottle of oil in the boot or in the boot access panel.

Try to get a compression test done on the one you're really thinking of buying. Drive a few of them and settle on the one you're happiest with. Thing is, there's only a few rotary engine compression tester machines in Ireland which all the mazda dealers here have to share as apparently, they're wicked expensive. You should book a few days in advance with your nearest dealer to make sure they have it on site when you show up.

They are very nice cars to work on, albeit a little cramped in the engine bay but once the engine is cold, nothing to worry about except if you're doing an oil change.

Unlike normal cars, the 8 uses 2 types of plugs - 2 leading (RE7C-L) and 2 trailing (RE9B-T). To buy them from a dealer is rape but I used get mine from the US for $80 + P&P.

I never bothered with calculating MPG when I had it, nor do I bother with the MPS. I just drive how I want and fill up when I have to. "It's nice to have money like that" you say? Well I don't, I just think that calculating mpg takes the fun out of owning a performance car. And if it's a performance car you're after you should get used to this way of thinking too.

The claimed figure of 25mpg is in a simulated environment. If you're expecting to get that in the real world with either the 192 or 232 models, stop thinking that right now

Mister-M5

Thanks very much for all the info folks, definitely helped.

The major issue worrying me is the amount that I drive.

5 days per week I drive exactly 1.7 miles to work, back home for lunch, back to work after lunch, then home again. (1.7 x 4 x 5 = 34 miles)

If I throw in training 4 nights per week, a 4.8 mile round trip, (4.8 x 4 = 19.2) that only brings me up to 53.2 miles per week.

If I allow maybe 15-20 approx miles per week for AOB, I'm looking at approx 60-65 miles per week. Obviously there will be one or two longer journeys on various weekends but for these I usually use the girlfriend's car, or, if I'm going to the other side of the country etc, I borrow the parents' 320D, because it pretty much runs on the smell of it

While this initially seems great for running costs, it seems that it's a double edged sword almost because the engine will barely have time to warm up with all these short stop-start journeys? It's almost as if the car would be wasted on me.

Thanks again!

evosteo

just came across this thread, great read. i was playing with the idea of picking up one of these in the new year, around the 2007 mark. seems like a great car for the price.

would having a full service history be the most important thing to look out for when looking around for a good example rx8?