Surly Big Dummy in Dublin city. Advice please.

'68 Fastback

Hi all,

A new arrival has used her tiny feet to quash my dreams of a cousom steel frame(for now!) but the little one will need to be transported from A to B and we only have one car so I'm looking at a longtail cargo bike like the Surly Big Dummy. I like the idea of having her in a seat with all of our stuff, with the capacity for lots more, in the panniers. I live in Inchicore and work on Merrion square and her creche is on my route to work so it makes sense for me to do the drop and collect and any excuse to get a new bike is a good one.

I've searched the posts here and any refering to such a bike seem to be a good few years old so I'm wondering if anyone has any more recent experiance, good or bad, to share. I'll be swapping from commuting on a fairly decent road bike so I reckon I'll have to alter my whole approach to my journey. How do people find heavy traffic situatons? I don't see cargo bikes in the city centre very often. Is it difficult to protect a passenger from winter weather?

I suppose I'm just trying to gauge if it's the idea of having such a bike that appeals to me or if it's a bike I really need in my life?!

Thanks for reading!

OldBean

If I remember correctly, there was a Dutch style cargo bike (With a rain protector) in the Adverts section recently. Could be a viable option, and not too difficult considering you've the Grand Canal the whole way from Inchicore to quite near Merrion Sq. - I've seen a few of them on that route carrying everything from boxes to families.

'68 Fastback

Thanks OldBean. The canal route does look like a good option alright. My current Thomas St.-Kevin St-Stephen's Green is hairy enough without a passenger.

Seaswimmer

What about this to buy and they probably have plenty of advice to go with it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96965263

'68 Fastback

I've seen that Bakfiets but I think I'd prefer the longtail type rather than the out the front type. I see the couriers on box bikes but I'd like to see my front wheel!
That Bakfiets seem quite cheep though.

Harrybelafonte

You can see your front wheel on a Larry Vs Harry which is what the couriers use.

There is very little difference between cycling any bike and a cargo bike. Handling yes. Some don't seem to be able to get their heads around it, but for most it's a case of 10 mins on it and sorted.

The only negative is that it can be a bit slower as you don't always get a chance to scoot up the inside of traffic because the bike is so wide.

Cargo bikes are pretty much a solid investment. I've had mine now maybe 5-6 years and still use it if my now 11 year old is just knackered after school. And I still shop on it when time allows. Make sure you have space for it is the only real consideration.

Well, actually, as an investment you'd need to take resale into consideration. I won't be selling mine but by all accounts shifting one might take awhile.

'68 Fastback

Thanks Harry.

Good to hear you still get use out of yours. I had been looking for an Xtracycle FreeRadical so that I could revert back to a standard bike when the baby grows up but they've gone out of production in lieu of a newer model. What type have you got?

As for space, thats going to be tight in my teeny yard.

Harrybelafonte

Larry Vs Harry Bullitt

Lusk_Doyle

Major disappointment with this thread after a promising "How do I deal with this bully" type title!

'68 Fastback

Thanks for that Harry.

Sorry for the disappointment Lusk but if I started to complain about incidents on my commute we'd need a second thread. Plus I'm well able to deal with road bullies!

kenmc

I've a LvsH Bullitt for about 2 months now. I use it for creche run tues-thurs with one 3 year old, and will be adding the soon-to-be 9 month old in about 3 weeks time.
I usually also ride it on Mondays and Fridays, even though I don't need to, with a choice of 3 other bikes available to me!
Absolutely recommend it, despite the price. The canopy for the kids is awesome, keeps them dry and warm, the main problem I'd have with a long tail. I had the 3 year old on the back of my kaffenback until the bullitt arrived, but if it was heavy rain I usually allowed her Gran to collect her rather than have her face into that - there's not really any sort of rain protection available besides a rain suit, and in the hail or heavy rain it goes in your face pretty hard. I considered the xtracycle, yuba mondo etc but in the end went with the bullitt mainly for the canopy.

I went with deore 27 gearing after much back and forth with the alfine - was very tempted with the fit and forget, but was reminded that the chain would need to be tensioned, and when you do that you've to fettle the brakes too. Disc brakes on the bullitt also won me over. In the end though I decide to go with the deore, so that, worst comes to worst and something goes wrong with the drivetrain or back wheel, I've enough spare bits n pieces either on other bikes or in the spares boxes to be back on the road in an hour or 2, vs a few days if something goes wrong with the internal gearing.

PM me if you're around dublin southside and want a spin. Can even supply a toddler to load it up

To save on purchase cost, I installed my own base board (178 euro) and seat (202 euro) instead of buying the LvsH setup.

By the way, the Dutch Bike Shop in Goatstown is having an official opening on Saturday coming (19th), they have a few different models, the best being the WorkCycles Kr8, which is somehow made by or related to the Bakfiets brand - I'm not 100% sure of the connection but it's a lovely bike too, a fair bit cheaper than the bullitt, seems to only be internal gearing and non-disc brakes. The canopy is more of a tent though than the Bullitt. They also have/had something called the walleroo on their website, but would need to be ordered specially, it has a similar canopy. I didn't fancy getting them to order it in for me to buy without trying one first.

Greenaer (off pearse st) have bakfiets and a cheaper version called the milano, again a sort of a tent arrangement. They also do one called the triobike cargo. I demoed this from a friendly owner in the cargo bike championships - it's similar ish to the bullitt, but what turned me off is there seems to be very very few of them in the wild, hard to find pictures, especially of the rain canopy. By contrast it's easy to find real-world examples of the bullitt and the canopy. As a primary mover, the canopy was a must have for me. I just can't face the leopardstown roundabout in the car on a wet winter evening.

*I instantly discounted any 3 wheel varient of cargo bike. hideous monstrosities.

kenmc

by the way, if you only have one kid you can survive without a long tail or a cargo bike, 2 panniers and a baby seat can work with a rack, it requires a bit of careful packing, but very managable

Harrybelafonte

kenmc wrote: »

*I instantly discounted any 3 wheel varient of cargo bike. hideous monstrosities.

Christiana-type cargo bikes have their place as well. Let's not start applying the usual "Boards.ie/Joe Duffy/Taxi Driver" mode of thinking to this debate again.

There's a decent run down of the advantages both the Long John and Christiana type have over the other in this thread (before it becomes the usual Boards handbag battle): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056152789

kenmc

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Christiana-type cargo bikes have their place as well. Let's not start applying the usual "Boards.ie/Joe Duffy/Taxi Driver" mode of thinking to this debate again.

There's a decent run down of the advantages both the Long John and Christiana type have over the other in this thread (before it becomes the usual Boards handbag battle): http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056152789

I'm sure they do, just not in my garage

Harrybelafonte

Maybe, but my point still stands.

Anyway, I've just realised no information we've really garnered has done anything but try and convince OP of our own options rather than what has been asked.

I haven't seen nor experienced using the long-tail bikes OP, but CityBike in Dublin importers in Ireland and they may have an option to try one out.

kenmc

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Maybe, but my point still stands.

Anyway, I've just realised no information we've really garnered has done anything but try and convince OP of our own options rather than what has been asked.

I haven't seen nor experienced using the long-tail bikes OP, but CityBike in Dublin importers in Ireland and they may have an option to try one out.

Fair point, but we've also pointed out the erroneous assumption he has made in terms of not being able to see the front wheel (post#5), and clarified the query re the ability to protect passengers from bad weather (post #1).

There's also this post
http://www.tinyhelmetsbigbikes.com/blog-we-ride/guest-post-nicoles-cargo-bike-journey
which is linked from LvsH facebook page about someone who invested in a LongTail and their struggles to manage it who subsequently bought a Bullitt.

My main piece of advice though would be ride everything you can, loaded with child if possible, and then decide which you prefer.

Harrybelafonte

However, OP wants to convert bike back to "normal" bike and has very little space it would seem. I have a garage to keep my Bullitt in. Never even tried to squeeze it through the house.

The link you provided was for a woman who bought a dirt cheap heavy long tail and lives in pretty hilly San Diego. Don't think thisis comparable to be honest.

Is this handbags starting again?

'68 Fastback

Handbags at dawn!

Thanks for all the replies. It's great to get some opinions from people with the know. You've also totally messed with my train of thought on this!

I'd love a Bullitt. They look the buisness and the full coverage would be a big point for me. Am I right in thinking that a basic model with a standard drivetrain would be in the region of €3000. Before base plates and seats etc? That's not going to sit well with my accountant. Even with my Bike2Work.

It sounds like both Kenmc and Harry have an indoor space for their Bullitts. Any bike I go for will have to be stored covered in my yard. Do you think the need for maintenance would be any greater than a standard bike? I'm thinking of the pivots in the steering etc. I have lane access to my yard so I won't be bringing the bike through the house but the door isn't very wide so that's why I won't be considering a trike.

One of the main draws that the Surly has for me is that the child seat will be mostly independant of the panniers, allowing me to fill them with the various tools, timber, shopping and random stuff that I want to carry without having to worry about keeping herself away from it all.

I'm thinking that, with the open source Xtracycle design, I can manufacture(bodge) some sort of canopy for whatever seat I end up using. Maybe I'm dreaming.

kenmc

yeah 3k is the basic bike and canopy.
not sure if there'd be much extra in the way of maintenance, Harry would be better placed to answer that.
I really thought long and hard about my purchase of the bullitt, but with 2 kids it's a very different requirement than just one (I assume you have just the one?) I have seen a homemade rain cover for a rear child seat but I don't know where it was.
Good luck with whatever you chose anyway.

'68 Fastback

Just the one for now. I think being an only child is the absolute bomb but, based on her observations, my wife sees things a little different!

As you suggested, I might have a look into the pannier rack/seat option to tide me over. My main problem with this is that I don't get a new bike. Maybe only children are self absorbed?!

Thanks again for your input.

Harrybelafonte

I've one of the original Bullitts, before all the differnt options were introduced, but I've had to do nothing to it, bar trying to keep the Alfine 8 in check and change brake pads. Brake pads wear quickly for me on the Bullitt. May be cos I bought cheap.