Veggie Garden

MarkAnthony

I've a little plot of land maybe 30SqM to the side of my house. Picture below. If faces ENE (I think - phone compass).

I'd like to plant it as a veggie plot but have a few questions on clearing it. As you can see I've let it become a bit of a meadow, whats the best was to clear it? Cut the grass then start digging or perhaps cover it with a large tarp for a few weeks?

Then in regard to getting it ready for next year, I don't think the soil is very deep so I was going to do raised beds (4 for rotation) a few mounds for certain things.

I've a potting shed I've inherited from my allotment (not much done on it as we moved) which I'm going to put in another garden I have, will this be enough or should I eventually buy a green house? What about if I get a poly tunnel? Does that mean I can forget the greenhouse?

Thanks in advance for anyone who wants to take any of those questions or indeed anyone who wants to offer advice.

Photo

pwurple

You've a few options with clearing it. It mostly seems to be light cover there, no brambles etc.

You could spray,
Could rotovate it all in.

What I would do is put some wet cardboard down for a few weeks... this will kill off the growth, should be easy enough to pull it all up then and do your levels.

If you're doing raised beds, my advice is stick to 3ft wide max.
And to build in PVC pipes for hoops from the start. You can then add netting to keep off pests, or plastic to act as a mini-tunnel.

See below:

http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2008/09/add-pvc-hoops-to-raised-beds.html

smartgardener

Interesting Markanthony, see my website for pictures

mr chips

I'd suggest you strim back or pull out those dock leaves before they go to seed, or they'll keep coming back. Until getting to know more about herbicides etc, I would avoid using any sort of poison if I was intending to grow stuff to eat, no matter what it says about "this product breaks down harmlessly". Covering the grass as advised above will enable you to pull out most of what's left.

A polytunnel will certainly be cheaper to install than a greenhouse - for the cost of a pretty bog-standard small greenhouse (8x6) you could get a polytunnel to cover more than half your growing area! It's not possible to tell from your photo which wall of your garden would get the most sun, but I would suggest you place any tunnel/greenhouse wherever that would be. You can use the existing wall as a starting point. Use one corner of the garden for composting (as far away from the house as possible in case of any issues with smells/vermin) - this is really worthwhile and helps to reduce or eliminate the cost of feeding your stuff.

Other than that, think of the things you like eating and pick three or four of those to concentrate on for your first sowing - no point running before you can walk and ending up with more stuff than you can use. You can browse through this forum for tips & ideas, there's plenty of material here and elsewhere to work with. Look up "companion planting" for some useful tips about protecting what you grow from pests - things may go well in your first year, but they'll find what you're growing sooner or later! Nets & plastic are a good idea, as magpies will even pull onion bulbs out of the soil once they have a stem, just for mischief ... use beer traps for slugs.

black_frosch

mr chips wrote: »

Other than that, think of the things you like eating and pick three or four of those to concentrate on for your first sowing - no point running before you can walk and ending up with more stuff than you can use.

Agree with everything you say but I think there's no harm in trying more different plants first year more you try more you learn even if you fail it's just experience and next year you will feel much more confident about what you want to grow.

magicbastarder

another method to clear the soil might be solarisation, but it's probably a bit late in the year for it - and we didn't exactly have the summer for it either.
that said, i don't know anyone who's tried it.

http://www.weekendgardener.net/organic-weed-killer/solarization-100710.htm

mr chips

black_frosch wrote: »

Agree with everything you say but I think there's no harm in trying more different plants first year more you try more you learn even if you fail it's just experience and next year you will feel much more confident about what you want to grow.

Fair enough - tis only because I ended up with far, far more cabbage and kale than I could possibly hope to eat! Even after giving loads away, I still had way too much. Interestingly, I let both go to seed then cut them right back, and they both came again.

zagmund

mr chips wrote: »

Fair enough - tis only because I ended up with far, far more cabbage and kale than I could possibly hope to eat! Even after giving loads away, I still had way too much. Interestingly, I let both go to seed then cut them right back, and they both came again.

Yeah, we had a cabbage that was cut (and eaten) in spring and which a few weeks later produced many baby cabbages from the stem. We let them grow away and ended up with a lot more from the second crop than from the first. It was a little odd though, seeing cabbage stems/stalks with multiple heads.

The kale has been happily producing since last winter - we just pull a few leaves off each plant and the plants are quite happy to produce all year long.

z

mr chips

Kale's nicer in winter anyway, being exposed to frost apparently is what does it. Very tasty in stir-fries!

Among other things, I'm still some peas here, even though the vines are starting to dry out/die back. OP I've a couple of tips about those for you, if you intend planting them! if you're covering pea vines with netting to protect them from birds, they will need more than three feet of clearance. Don't plant them too close together either, at least 6 inches of a gap is better, maybe 8. Sow two or three stages of them so that you don't get a glut all in the space of a couple of weeks.

This I have learned. :P

MarkAnthony

Thanks guys! I'll keep this thread up dated.

I think I'm going to go raised beds and mini poly tunnels to start - will any old plastic do or can I buy specific types?

Kale = yummy!

mr chips

Get the right kind of plastic from a polytunnel/gardening supplier, as it will restrict some UV rays and also be much more durable than builders' plastic, which will degrade much more quickly.

If you're making raised beds out of timber, make sure it hasn't been treated with any kind of toxic stain/varnish etc. Linseed oil is a safe preservative for timber.

macraignil

Might be worth keeping some grass between the raised beds to have something to walk on. If you don't have a mower then maybe it would be another option to use some sort of paving.

Some of the garden might be shaded by the walls so leaf vegetables might do better there. Vegetables that need to produce a fruit or a seed tend to need more light to get a good crop.

I'd also consider painting the walls white to brighten up the garden.

It's possible to train fruit to grow up against walls using wire or trellis and this might be worth considering.

If you are getting a polytunnel you could even grow grapes. I bought as small vine in Aldi two and a half years back and have my first crop of grapes this year. It's ment to be better to plant the roots outside and train the vine into the polytunnel so the roots get cold in the winter.

Supercell

A poly in that small a space may suffer from mould and disease I would have thought due to reduced airflow from the brick wall surrounds and the fact that facing ENE its probably in shadow during the warmest part of the day. I've a space not a million miles from that in size and started out with raised beds before i decided to just convert it all to veggie space much to my wife's chagrin

I have a small plastic greenhouse and it does get a bit mouldy by the end of winter and gets a good wash down in early spring.
Raised beds for the first year or so to see what will grow there before installing a full on poly.
Aldi and Lidl do basic cold frames most years. I'd be inclined to get one of them and see what grows there (to get an idea whats possible in a tunnel there). I grew chillies in one of them outside successfully for a couple of years before I got my greenhouse.

MarkAnthony

SO! Potting shed is in! Rescued from my poor, unloved allotment. Cold frame is on it's way and I've some compost rotting nicely in the compost bin. Been on to my old man who's been growing things for about 50 years and he's put me on to growing some broad-beans,. winter lettuce and Japanese onions.

He reckons it's not too late in the day but he lives in the Sunny South East of England and I'm here in rainy Dublin 5! So I'm going to get minipolies for the raised beds.

I've been doing some measuring and I've 21'9" x 35" to play with including the Shed/Coldframe/Compost area. The plan is to buy 4 of 6'x4' raised beds. This will leave me with 2ft raised beds along the walls both sides, a 24" path down the centre and 18" paths either side of the raised beds. I've attached a very bad drawing. Does anyone see any glaring issues with this set up?

Thanks again for all the great advice!




Cul-de-sac here with 5ft wall



HOUSE IS HERE off drawing

mr chips

It looks like you've put the shed in the sunniest corner of the plot, or am I misinterpreting it?

MarkAnthony

mr chips wrote: »

It looks like you've put the shed in the sunniest corner of the plot, or am I misinterpreting it?

I did but it's a potting shed so it's like a cross between a greenhouse and a shed. See attached (at it's old home).

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/734153/363474.jpg

mr chips

Ah, I see!

MarkAnthony

So I've been doing a bit of work. Here's where we are at the moment.



Some little scroat has taken to throwing stones at the perspex on my shed so I'm going to move the planned position for the Cold frame to near the shed door to give it a bit of protection.

6x4ft raised bed is going in where I've dug.

I've got Broad Beans, lettuce and Japanese onions planted.

Samuel T. Cogley

Sorry for the bump, I'm going to update when I get home. It's getting there! :pac:

Samuel T. Cogley

So removed what seemed like huge amounts of top soil to get it level and below the existing concrete path at the side of the house.



Still a mess but I might actually get finished this year and we got some produce off last year!



I'm going to put shingle down on the paths - anyone know a good place? Naturalstoneyard.ie didn't bother their arse's getting back to me.



My Original plan was scuppered by a manhole cover behind where the slabs are, so I'm leaving this the original height and moving the shed for a third time (fourth if you count moving it from the allotment)!

okedoke

Fair play - that's a fine job

Samuel T. Cogley

okedoke wrote: »

Fair play - that's a fine job

Thanks! Took me long enough!!

rolion

Are you going to cover the raised beds or leave it like this ?
You can build small poly roofs over the plants and cover them over night or mornings.

Also,is that wood threated or normal indoors ?
You may want to consider protect it with some paint.

Enjoy it !!

wench

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I'm going to put shingle down on the paths - anyone know a good place? Naturalstoneyard.ie didn't bother their arse's getting back to me.

Try Grange builders providers in Baldoyle.
They're good to deal with, and I expect you'd be within their free delivery area.

https://grange.ie/builders-providers/garden-landscaping/decorative-stone-and-pebble

Samuel T. Cogley

rolion wrote: »

Are you going to cover the raised beds or leave it like this ?
You can build small poly roofs over the plants and cover them over night or mornings.

Also,is that wood threated or normal indoors ?
You may want to consider protect it with some paint.

Enjoy it !!

They're treated I got them from Quickcrop who I'll give a quick plug to for being brilliant! Aye, I'm hoping to build some frames and things for them. Their 6x6 is the only issue though so it's going to be quite big.

wench wrote: »

Try Grange builders providers in Baldoyle.
They're good to deal with, and I expect you'd be within their free delivery area.

https://grange.ie/builders-providers/garden-landscaping/decorative-stone-and-pebble

Ah fantastic idea! I always prefer going local too! Thanks for the suggestion!

Samuel T. Cogley

I've two old doors, they're very heavy and painted in gloss paint (probably many times). Could these be used as part of a base for my shed or is that a very bad idea?

Thanks in advance!

Samuel T. Cogley

Where all that soil (and lets be honest) rubbish is I'm looking to put a poly tunnel or greenhouse. Is there something I could do by using the existing walls? For example just put a glass roof on it.

I need to be conscious I quite close to the neighbours there!

Samuel T. Cogley

So I hope people don't mind me updating this blog-style!

Bit of leveling, some soil to move back and some tidying up and done! (Well as much as these things ever are done.) Massive thanks to my lovely neighbours for helping me move the shed, and the long suffering wife!

Samuel T. Cogley

Paths in! Bit of a tidy up done.

Samuel T. Cogley

The soil gets so dry that I have to water it to dig it properly. Should I keep it moist or can I safely let it fry out until I'm planting?

Thanks in advance!

Technophobe

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The soil gets so dry that I have to water it to dig it properly. Should I keep it moist or can I safely let it fry out until I'm planting?

Thanks in advance!

Get yourself some farmyard manure and throw them on the beds and cover with cardboard until ready to plant..will help fertilise, keep moist and keep weeds down...
Most garden centres will sell well rotted stuff in bags...

Samuel T. Cogley

Thanks Technophobe!

Other than weeds would there be any worry in getting some fresher stuff form souce?

Technophobe

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thanks Technophobe!

Other than weeds would there be any worry in getting some fresher stuff form souce?

If you can get some from source, then free is always better BUT and it's a big but, it maybe a bit late in the year to be applying fresh manure to beds that you hope to use this year. Carrots for example will fork in freshly manured beds, whereas potatoes can be planted on fresh manure, so all depends..

What are you hoping to grow this year?

More well rotted manure would be better in most cases

Samuel T. Cogley

Got quite a lot planned and planted. Two beds of brassicas, one of salad, one of corn and two of roots. One of the side beds is peas, back is beans and the other side will be a bit of a mish mash including the Strawberries there already.

quadrifoglio verde

Looking good, decent transformation.

Any plan to paint the walls? It will really transform the space.

Samuel T. Cogley

Thanks QV! I was thinking I would - any suggestions on colour? I was thinking white to reflect the light but maybe a nice green?

Spanish Eyes

I'm loving this. It looks great OP fair play.

Can I ask if you have any kind of "relaxing" space there, i.e. a small patio or such like?

I have a humungous garden, south facing and it's doing dam all. We just sit on the patio of an evening and plan. That's as far as we've got!

But how would we eat all that grub! That's another thing...

Samuel T. Cogley

Thanks Spanish Eyes!

This is the garden to the side of the of the house, but I'm blessed and cursed by a 7 x 7m back garden, 5x5m yard and a front garden the same sort of size as the veggie garden but it comes to a point (think quarter of an oval). So the plan is, showy flower garden at the front, veggie garden which is done(ish) and then a patio garden at the back. We're currently talking to landscapers about the back, but it's a mess with a wall and concrete yard needing to come out.

I have to say I'm getting a lot of pleasure out of the veggie garden and we did get a bit off it last year, hopefully this year the momentum will be kept going with the veggies! I can recommend it enough!

quadrifoglio verde

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thanks QV! I was thinking I would - any suggestions on colour? I was thinking white to reflect the light but maybe a nice green?

White will make it really bright alright.
Maybe terracotta. Will make it quite warm feeling. Or blue?

If you're feeling brave, shocking pink. It looks class
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/nov/13/gardens-pink-revamp

Samuel T. Cogley

Okay clue is in the name alright but I've found out one of the problems with my soil is it's subsoil not top soil. So 2 Tonne of top soil arrived today - do I just sprinkle this on top or do I need to dig it in?

Thanks in advance!