New law

kincaid

Is there a new law that you can not draw a digger etc on a twin axle low loader anymore if it weights more than 6 ton, if though its plated for a lot more.

Mycroft H

kincaid wrote: »

Is there a new law that you can not draw a digger etc on a twin axle low loader anymore if it weights more than 6 ton, if though its plated for a lot more.

Haven't heard of anything. Where did this come out of?

westdub

Some answers about the new laws regarding tractors and trailers can be found here>>> http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Your%20Vehicle/Ag_vehicles/plating_speed_discs_faqs.pdf

mayota

westdub wrote: »

Some answers about the new laws regarding tractors and trailers can be found here>>> http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Your%20Vehicle/Ag_vehicles/plating_speed_discs_faqs.pdf

Interesting reading. A non 40k box tractor may be handy to have.

sandydan

very interesting topic, had to attend a CPC last week where we were told that most of the trucks and trailers used by contractors for an newly established state company are breaking the law .
ie a truck similar to a DAF 45 being used to tow a 3.5 ton mini digger while it has any rubbish eg soil in body is breaking the law .and most of them have hiab fitted with earth scoops for cleaning up rubbish.
similar vehicles are also employed by subcontractors for another former semi state services provider
it is legal for the truck to tow the trailer carrying the mini digger but not if truck is loaded.

Del2005

sandydan wrote: »

very interesting topic, had to attend a CPC last week where we were told that most of the trucks and trailers used by contractors for an newly established state company are breaking the law .
ie a truck similar to a DAF 45 being used to tow a 3.5 ton mini digger while it has any rubbish eg soil in body is breaking the law .and most of them have hiab fitted with earth scoops for cleaning up rubbish.
similar vehicles are also employed by subcontractors for another former semi state services provider
it is legal for the truck to tow the trailer carrying the mini digger but not if truck is loaded.

Does that mean that these are also illegal?

Since we are supposed to have common EU laws and plenty of these wagons run all over the place.

sandydan

unless my eyes deceive me there is slight difference, ie the towing truck is not a daf 45 or equivalent,it is or should be plated for the weight involved. seriously though folk need to open their eyes to some interpretation of the new law or regs, they are minefields,
trunk,jeep or van towing a trailer not the type in pic posted, just a typical 1 or 2 axle what's the speed limit,
for drivers anyways the owners are untouchable unless defects simply are only visible to mechanic, another question he asked is how long is a DOE cert, or road-worthiness cert valid for,
is a RSA vehicle inspector held responsible or accountable for missing a defect in a roadside check if the vehicle involved has an accident due to missing a defect and if so for what period after roadside check,
oh and btw what is legal permissible laden weight towable by a typical 4 wd jeep or hylux eqivalent, when towing a 2 or 3 axle aluminium type cowbox and plenty are loaded with cattle daily on country roads daily being driven at speed.

sandydan

maybe i should word question about weight differently. ie what is the approximate net laden weight a driver with an E+B licence can tow on a 2 axle or 3 axle aluminium bodied cowbox pulled by a 4wd jeep, according to him roughly 1 ton or less depending on weight of vehicle and trailer towed.

he said an inspector for the RSA carrying out a roadside inspection can be held accountable for a 24 hour period if he fails to spot an issue that leads to an accident in that 24 hr period, so they are unlikely to ignore something.
also any vehicle towing a trailer is limited to 80km/hr speed limit. wonder does that apply to caravans.

mayota

A 12 x 6 IW weighs 1100kg and Gross weight of 3500kg so 2400kg is max load. Driver with e+b can pull this provided his vehicle is rated to.

foxy farmer

Seeing some lads hauling loads of factory cattle in jeeps and trailers Id say the only way some of them would be legal is to let the cattle out of the trailer put the jeep into the trailer and get the cattle to pull the trailer!
Serious overloading going on in some cases.

paddysdream

mayota wrote: »

A 12 x 6 IW weighs 1100kg and Gross weight of 3500kg so 2400kg is max load. Driver with e+b can pull this provided his vehicle is rated to.

Problem is that many 4x4s are rated (in Ireland anyways) to 3 ton,not 3.5.Off the top of my head think its just lwb pajero,range rover and discovery plus I think ford ranger is 3.3 ton or so.
Landcruiser and swb pajero are 3 ton and many crew cabs are 2.5 to 3 ton only.

Think all IF Hudson etc trailers are plated to a max of 3.5 tonne.Have never seen one with any more stamped on them.Many of the dropsides are plated for only 2.8 ton.

The Sidewards Man

Some say jap import jeeps are unrated as such, grey area. Anyone heard of this?

MrFoxman360

A lot of newer jeeps do not have high tow capacities.

For example I know that the modern Landcruisers are only rated to tow 2800kgs, so even if you have a trailer rated for 3500kgs gross capacity, you are still restricted to 2800kgs as your max towing weight.

If you have a trailer with a rated Gross Capicity of 3500kg, and the trailer itself weighed 1000kgs (typical large Ifor Williams), the max payload you could put in the trailer is just 2500kgs. If you want to tow that trailer with the aforementioned Landcruiser, your maximum payload in the trailer then goes down to just 1800kgs, to stay legal.

If your not mindful of weights you can very easily be leaglly overloaded, a big issue if you end up in an accident.

Range Rovers, Discovery and Landcruiser Amazon are rated for the full 3500kg tow capacity. Even the old Diahatzu Fourtrack and Defender were 3500kgs.

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Some say jap import jeeps are unrated as such, grey area. Anyone heard of this?

I didnt think they were unrated, just thought they were rated higher than Euro models, I know a Jap Landrcuiser Amazon could be rated to tow 4200kgs where as an identical Euro model was just 3500kgs. In that case the extra capacity was no use unless you had a C1E licence and a tachograph fitted!

sandydan

i suppose the 3.5 ton trailer is classified as Q2 ,
what it says in regs is anyone with Class B can tow those with Vehicle with a vehicle provided DGVW of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tons
anyone with class BE can tow a Q2 trailer with a vehicle with seating for 8 persons with a DGVW of 3.5 tons provided the GVW of the trailer does not exceed the manufacturers rated towing CAPACITY OF THE TOWING VEHICLE

CLEAR AS MUD i recon if stopped by a Garda after an accident on a foggy. evening and especially if trailer is coated in muck, on weighbridge they weigh driver and all passengers, i was weighed with a truck

orm0nd

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Some say jap import jeeps are unrated as such, grey area. Anyone heard of this?

yep,

any jap import I've seen hasn't a load plate, so wouldn't be considered legal (for towing)

sandydan

would a DOE or Vnt centre not plate them if required when testing, i know i saw somewhere about plating tractors but cant remember what.
my son imported a pugeout van and it went to both an nct centre and a VNT centre, so surely one or other of them would have access to manufacturers specs and plate accordingly, just wondering thats all,
often sit into neighbours hilux and he often comments that it must be half ton heavier than its tax weight with all the farm equipment in it some obsolete, and there is lots more as well. companies with a fleet of trucks are or were checked regularly to ensure they arent taxing the lightest combination of artic unit and trailer instead of unit and trailer combination actually in use.

sandydan

https://www.ndls.ie/cars-and-trailers.html

this site seems the clarify some differences between the B and the E+B licence, havent seen a site that clarifies the original question fully

has anyone read this article

Confusion and confrontation - Independent.ie
www.independent.ie/.../confusion-and-confrontation-26267211.html

sandydan

mayota wrote: »

A 12 x 6 IW weighs 1100kg and Gross weight of 3500kg so 2400kg is max load. Driver with e+b can pull this provided his vehicle is rated to.

i was told that a driver with an E+B licence can only tow the balance of limit on licence ,ie 00kg, a lorry licence is required to tow load of 2400 kg??

paddysdream

sandydan wrote: »

i was told that a driver with an E+B licence can only tow the balance of limit on licence ,ie 00kg, a lorry licence is required to tow load of 2400 kg??

Does BE licence not allow you up to 7 tonne gross ie vehicle,trailer and load depending on I would suppose trailer gross at 3.5 tonne or less if plated so(IW etc) plus weight of towing vehicle?
Had a quick look at RSA site and the following is what I understand it to be.
BE licence covers vehicle fully landen to DGVW plus its towing capacity.
Example
Toyota Landcruiser DGVW is 2850 kg(on tax book) or 2750 (DOE cert) or 2850kg (previous DOE cert) or even 2730(another DOE cert).Clear so far?
Thats van,fuel cargo,driver passanger etc.
Towing capacity is 3000kg as far as I know.
Sheep box here(12x6 2 axle Ifor Williams with decks)is plated to 3500kg and weights about 1100kg approx.

So; that gives you 2850 kg max for van plus 3000kg max for trailer or a total train weight of 5850kg.A LWB Pajero would rise this to 6350 assuming its DGVW was the same as the Toyota.Just looked and Pajero GVW is 3030kg plus 3500kg towing so total of 6530kg.
All as I understand it,allowable on a BE licence.
Apologies if wrong.

MrFoxman360

paddysdream wrote: »

Does BE licence not allow you up to 7 tonne gross

Correct.

If you have a Class B (light commercial) vehicle that is rated to carry 3500kg gross weight and also rated to tow 3500kg at the same time, then you can legally drive that fully loaded combination (7000kg) on an EB licence.

There seems to be so many myths about these laws but the RSA guidelines are pretty clear in fairness.