golf club purchase

iasscarra

hello all,

I am looking for advise regarding the purchase of new clubs ....... I'm non-GUI thus far, probably will join a club next season ...... I am playing the last two summers and I feel that the mixed bag of clubs that I am using are ..... well.... frankly, embarrassing ! I have no sand iron , and the rest are a mix of no less than seven brands in my carry golf bag this includes the mixed brands of my putter, driver and 3 wood and 5 wood..... howsoever, I play off 18 and usually score around 30 points , generally no less than 26pts and highest was in Mallow GC 37pts playing of blues. Which I was over the moon and after the come down I soon realised that a full iron set would be justified .....
sorry I am a bit long winded here .... so i was wondering if €500 would be enough for 3 or 5iron to sand wedge and when I am getting new, is custom fitting advisable. just wondering if good brands a myth or what? I presume it is okay to discuss brands ? thanking all in advance .. ...... I may as well give my location east cork

rrpc

iasscarra wrote: »

hello all,

I am looking for advise regarding the purchase of new clubs ....... I'm non-GUI thus far, probably will join a club next season ...... I am playing the last two summers and I feel that the mixed bag of clubs that I am using are ..... well.... frankly, embarrassing ! I have no sand iron , and the rest are a mix of no less than seven brands in my carry golf bag this includes the mixed brands of my putter, driver and 3 wood and 5 wood..... howsoever, I play off 18 and usually score around 30 points , generally no less than 26pts and highest was in Mallow GC 37pts playing of blues. Which I was over the moon and after the come down I soon realised that a full iron set would be justified .....
sorry I am a bit long winded here .... so i was wondering if €500 would be enough for 3 or 5iron to sand wedge and when I am getting new, is custom fitting advisable. just wondering if good brands a myth or what? I presume it is okay to discuss brands ? thanking all in advance .. ...... I may as well give my location east cork

Seeing as you're playing regularly, you should take the opportunity of asking playing partners / friends a go with some of their clubs. Also since you have a mixed bag, ask yourself which is your favorite.

You could then go second hand or older model of the ones you think suit best. That way you'd be able to replace everything in your bag inside your budget and be happy with everything.

Fitting is expensive, the money would be better spent on lessons and membership subs.

mike12

Go for a basic fitting around 30 quid most places, they will let u know if you need the lie or length adjusted and what shaft u need. I would suggest second hand. I would go for a set of muzino jpx irons and any Taylormade drive like the r11 or r1.

First Up

mike12 wrote: »

Go for a basic fitting around 30 quid most places, they will let u know if you need the lie or length adjusted and what shaft u need. I would suggest second hand. I would go for a set of muzino jpx irons and any Taylormade drive like the r11 or r1.

There's lots of good clubs out there but they won't all suit you. People recommending specific clubs or brands without knowing anything about you is just crazy stuff.

Go to a proper golf shop that has a facility for hitting balls, get someone who knows what they are doing to look at your numbers, get their recommendations and then look for a deal on a second hand set. Or you could try the same routine with the pro at a good local club.

3 iron to SW may be more than you need. One or a couple of utility woods might be more user-friendly than a 3 or 4 iron. Also think about steel V graphite shafts.

But get advice from someone who knows what they are talking about.

KunKun

It all depends on your budget. I generally scour the archives of the golf digest hot list and then get the clubs second hand. Golf clubs' depreciate in value so much I would treat them as you would a car when purchasing them.

iasscarra

Thanks so much for the responce from all of ye ..... solid advice from all ..... I think that the concensous is that second hand is probably wiser , I agree with that now...... I have two or three brands in mind now , they are maybe two or three years in circulation....... so the price should be not a problem . btw five hundred is not a limit, I could spend more or less . Also for what it is worth ........... after looking at clubs the other day in two large golf shops in the city..... I felt rather fustrated that it is 5-SW, 4-PW, 5-PW or whatever combination it is, is so annoying and I could not help but feel cynical about buying new clubs when they are forcing me subtly into purchasing extra wedge or hybrids to complete the set GRRRRRrrrrrrr !!!!

rrpc

iasscarra wrote: »

Also for what it is worth ........... after looking at clubs the other day in two large golf shops in the city..... I felt rather fustrated that it is 5-SW, 4-PW, 5-PW or whatever combination it is, is so annoying and I could not help but feel cynical about buying new clubs when they are forcing me subtly into purchasing extra wedge or hybrids to complete the set GRRRRRrrrrrrr !!!!

To be fair, people are not buying long irons anymore and extra wedges are a personal preference.

First Up

rrpc wrote: »

To be fair, people are not buying long irons anymore and extra wedges are a personal preference.

Absolutely. You get far better use from from a gap wedge and rescue than a 3 or 4 iron.

Dr_Colossus

rrpc wrote: »

To be fair, people are not buying long irons anymore and extra wedges are a personal preference.

+1 The irons and number of clubs in the set generally depend on the type of club (game improvers such as the Ping K shovels which I think generally only start with a 5 iron or a more traditional blade like iron suck as the Titleist MB which start with a 3 iron with an option of the now rare 2 iron.) As said players now generally don't use long irons and opt instead for a selection of hybrids (personally I hate the look and feel of them) so it's a bit of a waste if the set comes with a 3 and 4 iron which will be left in the shed in replace of the more user friendly and popular hybrids.

With regards to wedges I think only the real starter sets now come with a matching sand wedge with everything else finishing with the pitching wedge. Different players prefer different levels of loft and bounce depending on the courses they play so with the greater choices available in wedges these days opt for specific wedges to go with their iron sets. Some players even opt to leave out the matching PW in favour of a specific wedge that more closely gaps the degrees between their 9 iron and their most lofted club. Another advantage of specific wedges is that they should wear faster than your irons given the amount of use and punishment they take in help put spin on the ball, that way you'll be able to replace your wedges as necessary without it impacting on the composition of the more expensive irons.

If getting new irons I'd advise leaving the wedges until later. That way you'll know whether the PW in your new set is a more traditional 47-48 degrees loft or some of the stronger lofted 44-45 degree clubs on the market. Also once you determine how lofted you want your shortest club to be then you can choose an appropriate gap wedge to your PW if you deem it beneficial.

For reference, I treated myself to new irons 3 years ago and went with a combo set with the 2-4 irons in a cavity back and the 5-PW in a blade. The PW has 47 degrees of loft so some months later I bought a 52 and 58 degree wedge. The least used club in my bag is a toss up between my 3 wood or 4 iron.

rrpc

A lob wedge is almost essential these days for those close in (less than 70 yards) shots to the green. As an 18 handicapper you'll probably find that you're having to make these shots more often than not and a club that gives you better accuracy from those positions will esnure you can get up and down instead of sweating over a twenty foot putt.

U.P.O.

iasscarra wrote: »

Thanks so much for the responce from all of ye ..... solid advice from all ..... I think that the concensous is that second hand is probably wiser , I agree with that now...... I have two or three brands in mind now , they are maybe two or three years in circulation....... so the price should be not a problem . btw five hundred is not a limit, I could spend more or less . Also for what it is worth ........... after looking at clubs the other day in two large golf shops in the city..... I felt rather fustrated that it is 5-SW, 4-PW, 5-PW or whatever combination it is, is so annoying and I could not help but feel cynical about buying new clubs when they are forcing me subtly into purchasing extra wedge or hybrids to complete the set GRRRRRrrrrrrr !!!!

It doesnt really matter what the set on the shelf is. You might see 4-PW on the shelf for €499 or whatever but its really just about €70 per club then and you can order 5-PW if you'd prefer or 4-9 or sometimes people order 4-6 in one type of club, like a game improvement iron, and then 7-PW in a more players iron.

So you dont have to buy what they have on the shelf. Most people prefer dedicated wedges like Titleist or Cleveland or whatever to the SW youd get in a set. This also allows you to be more specific with your wedge set-up (ie how many wedges with with what loft and bounce)

Some then prefer to play 3 and 4 irons. Others replace their 3 irons with hybrids, others replace their 3 and 4 irons with hybrids (which is probably what you should do if you're scoring 30 points off 18) so thats why you usually dont get "full sets".

d2ww

Don't forget to factor in the cost of new grips, if necessary, for your secondhand set. It's a bit hard to have a smooth swing, if you have to have a vice like grip to hold onto the club.

bustercherry

rrpc wrote: »

A lob wedge is almost essential these days for those close in (less than 70 yards) shots to the green. As an 18 handicapper you'll probably find that you're having to make these shots more often than not and a club that gives you better accuracy from those positions will esnure you can get up and down instead of sweating over a twenty foot putt.

I hope your joking

BoardsMember

bustercherry wrote: »

I hope your joking

I dont think by "making it" he means sinking it from around 70 yards. Though putting a lob wedge in a high handicappers hand from around that distance is maybe what you mean?

rrpc

BoardsMember wrote: »

I dont think by "making it" he means sinking it from around 70 yards. Though putting a lob wedge in a high handicappers hand from around that distance is maybe what you mean?

Yes. You see lads with a pitching wedge from those distances and their control lets them down.

PARlance

rrpc wrote: »

Yes. You see lads with a pitching wedge from those distances and their control lets them down.

That's probably due to never practicing 1/2 or 3/4 shots with PW or SW. You should get more control with a more controlled swing.
It's a smarter shot, if practiced.
Trying to go full tilt with a 58*/60* lob wedge isn't a smart shot. The higher the loft, the more danger is fairly commonly accepted.

Low guys do carry those clubs, but in my experience they generally use them close to the green for very delicate shots. They'll rarely go 100% with one.

bustercherry

BoardsMember wrote: »

I dont think by "making it" he means sinking it from around 70 yards. Though putting a lob wedge in a high handicappers hand from around that distance is maybe what you mean?

Yep, as an 18 handicapper you are not expected to get up and down for par. The aim should be on the green and 2 putt.

bustercherry

rrpc wrote: »

Yes. You see lads with a pitching wedge from those distances and their control lets them down.

And you see lads chunking lob wedges flat out.

PARlance

iasscarra wrote: »

Thanks so much for the responce from all of ye ..... solid advice from all ..... I think that the concensous is that second hand is probably wiser , I agree with that now...... I have two or three brands in mind now , they are maybe two or three years in circulation....... so the price should be not a problem . btw five hundred is not a limit, I could spend more or less . Also for what it is worth ........... after looking at clubs the other day in two large golf shops in the city..... I felt rather fustrated that it is 5-SW, 4-PW, 5-PW or whatever combination it is, is so annoying and I could not help but feel cynical about buying new clubs when they are forcing me subtly into purchasing extra wedge or hybrids to complete the set GRRRRRrrrrrrr !!!!

As already mentioned, a €30 lesson with a good pro will help with some basics and they will be able to tell you what flex shafts you should be looking at getting. Ask the pro and let them know your situation. He may try to sell you clubs, but don't rush into it. A lesson is rarely a bad investment.
You could get a specialised fitting (~€100) but I can't see the need for that for now.

My 2c on fitting out a bag:

Important thing to note is that club technology (and in particular, the limits to which manufacturers are confined) hasn't changed in quite some time so the next best thing from 3-5 years ago is still a very good club and bar a few gimmicks, nothing really has changed a whole pile. It hasn't changed because it can't. The club makers maxed out on progress some time ago and aren't allowed to push the boundaries any more.

You will hear of players irons (blades) & game improvement irons (chunkier heads). In reality, a lot of clubs produced over the last while will sit in between the two of these. You will also hear about forgiveness vs playability. The more blade-like an iron is, the more opportunity to shape shots (playability) and the more chunk, the more forgiveness. Again, a lot of clubs now sit between the two.
Forgiveness is generally delivered through distance rather than "off target" shots. There is a larger sweet spot on the club face, so less than perfect shots with a forgiving iron still go a fair distance, sometimes going as far as a near perfect strike...but with blades, an off center shot will struggle for distance.
Forgiveness won't make you hit your target if you're aiming 30 yards right and it won't compensate much for swing flaws...so above all, get your swing sorted.

Don't be afraid to go into a shop and hit some new clubs, a good shop will welcome you and while you may not purchase everything (or anything) from them immediately, they should still welcome you... golfers have long customer lifecycles. If one shop gives you a better service then make sure to show a bit of loyalty to them... tell your family to get you vouchers for that store, pick up bits n pieces from them, if buying new favour them etc.

If/when you find a new club that you like, then you can have a look for an older version/similar club from that manufacturer.

Getting your bag together is much more than just irons. 5 main parts really.

Driver: 2nd hand market is full of drivers. You can pick up a good one for €100. You can also pay €400+ for the latest good one.

Woods/Hybrids: Probably the least hyped area as there has been much less scope for gimmicks. Some pros (GMac, Snedeker, Lowry off the top of my head) are still using the same woods and hybrids for the last 10 years iirc. Their sponsors may get them to put the new headcover on them but a lot of times it's an old club beneath. An old but good 3 hybrid & 3 wood will set you back ~€150 or so for the 2.

Irons: Go for the ones you like the feel of best. Within reason. Blades probably a no no if you're only starting out. €150 will get you a good 2nd set.

Wedges: Buy after you get your irons. Find out the loft of the PW in your set (a quick search online will give you the lofts). Wedges are a personal thing but you won't go too far wrong getting two wedges that are 4* & 8* higher than your PW. It's always nice to buy wedges new imo but no harm in buying 2nd hand either. They pick up more wear and tear than any other clubs so that's why I favour new. The wear and tear doesn't make much of a difference though. €100 for 1 good new wedge, you could do without the PW +8* for a while.

Putter: Like wedges (and all clubs I suppose), a very personal thing too. Try as many styles out in store and go for the style you like. It's always nice to have a new putter but personally I dumped a €175 new putter in favour for a €20 2nd hand one and haven't looked back. Wouldn't use the expensive one, or a similar style, if you paid me €175.

So if I was to start over again, I would buy everything 2nd hand bar the wedge(s). And I wouldn't have much change from €700.

bustercherry

PARlance wrote: »

That's probably due to never practicing 1/2 or 3/4 shots with PW or SW. You should get more control with a more controlled swing.
It's a smarter shot, if practiced.
Trying to go full tilt with a 58*/60* lob wedge isn't a smart shot. The higher the loft, the more danger is fairly commonly accepted.

Low guys do carry those clubs, but in my experience they generally use them close to the green for very delicate shots. They'll rarely go 100% with one.

Agreed, you choose the lowest risk shot. I don't hit any of my wedges more than a 3/4 swing, it's about control and getting the distance right. I shudder at the thought of hitting a full lob wedge.

bmay529

A lot of good advice here. For me the shaft you choose is the most important decision. I would say get a fitting from a reputable pro (about €30) and take note of your swing speed and the shaft suggested... i.e. regular, stiff, extra stiff, etc. Generally speaking a swing speed of 95-105mph with a driver would suggest a stiff shaft. Armed with that knowledge I would go for a second hand set... check out adverts.ie, done deal, golfbidder UK, Callaway pre-owned (watch for freight and duty costs), etc. and drop into a few pro shops in your area... but don't get pushed into a decision on the spot. Get some advice in the selection from a friend who is a good golfer, maybe sub 10/12 handicap. I would go for irons 4-SW and driver, 3 wood and 5 wood... very traditional. A matching mid wedge would be a big plus. Lob wedges are popular and good but only when used as intended. You should pick up a good set for about €400 or less then spend a bit on a few lessons to get you started in the right way. Good luck with it.

rrpc

bustercherry wrote: »

Yep, as an 18 handicapper you are not expected to get up and down for par. The aim should be on the green and 2 putt.

If you're hitting a wedge from 70 yards or in on a par 4 for an up and down par, you're some 18 handicapper.

bustercherry

rrpc wrote: »

If you're hitting a wedge from 70 yards or in on a par 4 for an up and down par, you're some 18 handicapper.

As I said you should be aiming to get on the green and 2 putt for a nett par.

Boskowski

I had my first ever fitting session with a launch monitor yesterday. It was for irons and it was some eye opener really.

Your man had a gazillion of different shafts and the difference between some of them was unbelievable. In my case it turns out I most definitely need stiff but the usual stiff ones are too heavy for me. Seems I'm struggling to square the club face up with these. Most of the lightweight shafts however were too soft for me. Bit of a pickle but of course its all bit greyish, swing flaws come surely into it too.

I learned that my current set is hindering me. The combination of the weight and the fact while on paper they're rated stiff in reality they're playing regular leaves my balls spinning out of control with huge distance loss. Which confirms what I experience on the course with them.

Came out with either the KBS C Taper in either stiff or would get away with r+ too. Best choice was an 80g graphite shaft, a rather costly option though. That one gave me two full clubs advantage over my current set. :eek: Decisions need to be made now.

Apart from the obvious conundrum on what to spend money on I was rather pleased with the whole experience. My numbers were actually pretty good, not bad for an old 14 handicapper anyway.

The session cost me €45 but he really took his time, 1.5 hrs, and it was money well spent, I'd recommend it to anyone.

First Up

Boskowski wrote: »

I had my first ever fitting session with a launch monitor yesterday. It was for irons and it was some eye opener really.

Your man had a gazillion of different shafts and the difference between some of them was unbelievable. In my case it turns out I most definitely need stiff but the usual stiff ones are too heavy for me. Seems I'm struggling to square the club face up with these. Most of the lightweight shafts however were too soft for me. Bit of a pickle but of course its all bit greyish, swing flaws come surely into it too.

I learned that my current set is hindering me. The combination of the weight and the fact while on paper they're rated stiff in reality they're playing regular leaves my balls spinning out of control with huge distance loss. Which confirms what I experience on the course with them.

Came out with either the KBS C Taper in either stiff or would get away with r+ too. Best choice was an 80g graphite shaft, a rather costly option though. That one gave me two full clubs advantage over my current set. :eek: Decisions need to be made now.

Apart from the obvious conundrum on what to spend money on I was rather pleased with the whole experience. My numbers were actually pretty good, not bad for an old 14 handicapper anyway.

The session cost me €45 but he really took his time, 1.5 hrs, and it was money well spent, I'd recommend it to anyone.

Probably the best investment in golf yet its amazing the number of golfers who don't do it.
Buying clubs because of the brand, or because Adam Scott or someone uses them or (even worse) because you "like the look of them" is pretty dumb. You see guys in shops taking a stance with a club as if that told them anything and then laying out hundreds without the slightest idea if they are right or not.

Sad, but as they say - a fool and his money....

PARlance

Great value for €45, do you mind letting us know where you got that done?

First Up

bustercherry wrote: »

Agreed, you choose the lowest risk shot. I don't hit any of my wedges more than a 3/4 swing, it's about control and getting the distance right. I shudder at the thought of hitting a full lob wedge.

Then you are missing out on a big chunk of the potential in your bag.

I carry 3 wedges and between them I have shots from ten yards to about a hundred. I know how far I can hit each of them with a variety of swings. Figuring it out and practicing is great fun and gives me huge confidence on the course. Nothing is better fun than a full swing with a lob wedge (when I get it right that is.)

rrpc

First Up wrote: »

Then you are missing out on a big chunk of the potential in your bag.

I carry 3 wedges and between them I have shots from ten yards to about a hundred. I know how far I can hit each of them with a variety of swings. Figuring it out and practicing is great fun and gives me huge confidence on the course. Nothing is better fun than a full swing with a lob wedge (when I get it right that is.)

+1

A full swing with my lob wedge is about 70 yards. I've used it regularly for shots of that distance to good effect. Having said that, I practice a lot with my wedges because I'm not a long hitter and getting close to the pin is usually my only chance of a par.

My son hits his lob wedge about 100 yards. He is very accurate with it and ridiculously long with all his wedges. If you know the 4th in Macreddin (the 150 yard par 3 with the tee 40m above the green), he reaches that with a pitching wedge off the whites. :eek:

Boskowski

PARlance wrote: »

Great value for €45, do you mind letting us know where you got that done?

Of course not. Here you go: http://www.precisefitting.com

Boskowski

Btw what would you guys think of a custom graphite shaft in irons? Friend of mine went 'bollix thats for cat 1 or scratch golfers what with launch monitor etc and I only ever saw old fellas with graphite shafts in irons.'

bustercherry

First Up wrote: »

Then you are missing out on a big chunk of the potential in your bag.

I carry 3 wedges and between them I have shots from ten yards to about a hundred. I know how far I can hit each of them with a variety of swings. Figuring it out and practicing is great fun and gives me huge confidence on the course. Nothing is better fun than a full swing with a lob wedge (when I get it right that is.)

I didn't say couldn't hit full shots but I just don't have a need.

I've plenty of distance to sacrifice for control so better to take the lower lofted wedge and shorter swing for more accuracy. It's something the pro and myself have worked on trackman quite deliberately and my stats (and others he coaches) back it up. Also full shots tend to generate a lot of spin on me with wedges, so it's another way of reducing one of the variables.

First Up

Boskowski wrote: »

Btw what would you guys think of a custom graphite shaft in irons? Friend of mine went 'bollix thats for cat 1 or scratch golfers what with launch monitor etc and I only ever saw old fellas with graphite shafts in irons.'

I would attach more importance to where the ball goes than to what your friend thinks.

bustercherry

rrpc wrote: »

+1

A full swing with my lob wedge is about 70 yards. I've used it regularly for shots of that distance to good effect. Having said that, I practice a lot with my wedges because I'm not a long hitter and getting close to the pin is usually my only chance of a par.

My son hits his lob wedge about 100 yards. He is very accurate with it and ridiculously long with all his wedges. If you know the 4th in Macreddin (the 150 yard par 3 with the tee 40m above the green), he reaches that with a pitching wedge off the whites. :eek:

My 3/4 swing goes further than that but my dispersion will be less I'd argue. It great for your son that he hits it that far but ultimately my stats and scores will back up my wedge approach (for me anyway).

For me to hit a lob wedge 100yards, requires me to massively de-loft at impact. That inturn will decrease the bounce leaving less margin for error at impact. All I'm doing is making sure I don't have to be so precise every time.

bustercherry

Boskowski wrote: »

Btw what would you guys think of a custom graphite shaft in irons? Friend of mine went 'bollix thats for cat 1 or scratch golfers what with launch monitor etc and I only ever saw old fellas with graphite shafts in irons.'

I just don't like the feel of it irrespective of the performance. I'd say that the same for most.

First Up

bustercherry wrote: »

I didn't say couldn't hit full shots but I just don't have a need.

I've plenty of distance to sacrifice for control so better to take the lower lofted wedge and shorter swing for more accuracy. It's something the pro and myself have worked on trackman quite deliberately and my stats (and others he coaches) back it up. Also full shots tend to generate a lot of spin on me with wedges, so it's another way of reducing one of the variables.

I would see it as removing an option rather than reducing a variable. If you shudder at the thought of a full shot, you must not have seen what it can do.

bustercherry

First Up wrote: »

I would see it as removing an option rather than reducing a variable. If you shudder at the thought of a full shot, you must not have seen what it can do.

I haven't removed the option, where did I say that?

I shudder at the though of people hitting a full lob wedge when it is clearly not required, it's the wrong shot choice in most circumstances.

rrpc

bustercherry wrote: »

I haven't removed the option, where did I say that?

I shudder at the though of people hitting a full lob wedge when it is clearly not required, it's the wrong shot choice in most circumstances.

I just don't see how you can make such a definitive statement for everyone. You say you deloft your lob wedge to get 100 yards. Well I don't deloft and get a nice high flight and distance and see no problem using a full swing.

I certainly don't say that others should do and experience what I do since I can't see their swing from here.

I just say what I do. Others may have a different experience and viewpoint.

bustercherry

rrpc wrote: »

I just don't see how you can make such a definitive statement for everyone. You say you deloft your lob wedge to get 100 yards. Well I don't deloft and get a nice high flight and distance and see no problem using a full swing.

I certainly don't say that others should do and experience what I do since I can't see their swing from here.

I just say what I do. Others may have a different experience and viewpoint.

And I have a different viewpoint based upon statistical analysis and coaching recommendations. Also you didnt say what you do, you responded to a post from another poster stated about me removing potential in my bag; I'm just responding to that.

My wedge game is based on precision and control. By swinging harder and longer to a gain minimal distance advantage but there is more chance of getting out of sequence in my swing.

I also know I'd probably have to de-loft by 4 degrees in order to hit 100 yards with my normal wedge swing too. It less risky shot to take my 55 degree wedge instead.

First Up

bustercherry wrote: »

I haven't removed the option, where did I say that?

I shudder at the though of people hitting a full lob wedge when it is clearly not required, it's the wrong shot choice in most circumstances.

You didn't say you had removed an option - I did. You said you had reduced a variable - that implies there is an element to the shot that you can't control and therefore produces variation in the result.

I can hit a shot with a full or nearly full swing with a lob wedge that produces a result I can't get with any other club or shot. That is an option. I'm not saying I execute it perfectly every time but it is a shot I get good use from, when it is required.

First Up

This article covers it well - and the findings match my own experience.

PITCH SHOTS

The test: Study participants played 25- to 30-yard pitch shots from the fairway, rough and hardpan. The pitches were hit in random order and only once to simulate real-life playing conditions. In each case, the hole was cut in the center of the green, that is, there was plenty of green available to land the ball.

The results
Testers fared better with the sand wedge from hardpan, but hit the ball much closer to the hole from the rough and a normal fairway lie with the lob wedge.

Why the lob wedge won
Most of the testers felt the lob wedge allowed them to make a fuller swing, instead of an in-between one with the less-lofted sand wedge. Top 100 Teacher Anne Cain says that's a good thing. "Short-game spin and control come from accelerating through impact. Since a lob wedge has more loft and doesn't travel as far, you'll naturally be more aggressive and create the spin needed to land pitch shots close."

http://www.golf.com/instruction/how-play-10-toughest-wedge-shots

bustercherry

First Up wrote: »

This article covers it well - and the findings match my own experience.

PITCH SHOTS

The test: Study participants played 25- to 30-yard pitch shots from the fairway, rough and hardpan. The pitches were hit in random order and only once to simulate real-life playing conditions. In each case, the hole was cut in the center of the green, that is, there was plenty of green available to land the ball.

The results
Testers fared better with the sand wedge from hardpan, but hit the ball much closer to the hole from the rough and a normal fairway lie with the lob wedge.

Why the lob wedge won
Most of the testers felt the lob wedge allowed them to make a fuller swing, instead of an in-between one with the less-lofted sand wedge. Top 100 Teacher Anne Cain says that's a good thing. "Short-game spin and control come from accelerating through impact. Since a lob wedge has more loft and doesn't travel as far, you'll naturally be more aggressive and create the spin needed to land pitch shots close."

http://www.golf.com/instruction/how-play-10-toughest-wedge-shots

A 25-30 yard pitch is not a full swing with any wedge and you have pulled an article out with doesn't doesn't back anything up. Now you are changing the context of the discussion :rolleyes:

Parlance outlined exactly everything that is being discussed earlier in the thread.

rrpc

I think we need to define full swing here because I've a feeling we're discussing apples and malus domesticae

For me, a full swing with a wedge is much how Rory McIlroy describes it:

"where my left arm goes back to about 10:30 on an imaginary clock face and through to a three-quarter finish"

He actually describes three different swing types with his wedges which I think most people would find useful; the first of which is the one described above.

"Second, I have what I call my “10-off” swing, where my left arm goes back to about 9 o’clock. That shorter backswing, with everything else staying the same, takes 10 yards off the shot.

The third swing is the 10-off shot, except I grip down an inch on the club. That takes off another 10.

So for a 9-iron, my full shot is 150m, the shorter backswing makes it 140m, and the gripped-down shorter backswing goes 130m."

I think he's getting his yards and metres mixed up, or it could be the writer's fault, but you get the idea.

First Up

bustercherry wrote: »

A 25-30 yard pitch is not a full swing with any wedge and you have pulled an article out with doesn't doesn't back anything up. Now you are changing the context of the discussion :rolleyes:

Parlance outlined exactly everything that is being discussed earlier in the thread.

Try reading the article.

bustercherry

First Up wrote: »

Try reading the article.

I don't see a 70 yard test in that article? So you've changed the context of the discussion.

RRPC has hit the nail on the head above too but that is essentially what Parlance's post outlined too.

First Up

bustercherry wrote: »

I don't see a 70 yard test in that article? So you've changed the context of the discussion.

RRPC has hit the nail on the head above too but that is essentially what Parlance's post outlined too.

I'm changing nothing. The issue under discussion is hitting full shots with wedges, something you say you don't do (and would shudder at the thought of doing with a lob wedge.)

Every club can be swung in a variety of ways; it is up to the individual using it to get the most from it and apply their skill as most fits the situation, whether it is a 10, 40, 70 or whatever yard distance shot to whatever sort of target. Precluding any option from that makes no sense.

charlieIRL

.........bit off topic here lads!!! Will we separate these into 2 different threads?

First Up

charlieIRL wrote: »

.........bit off topic here lads!!! Will we separate these into 2 different threads?

Fine with me but I think we've done the wedge bit.

rrpc

First Up wrote: »

Fine with me but I think we've done the wedge bit.

Likewise. Everything that needed to be said has been said.

bustercherry

First Up wrote: »

I'm changing nothing. The issue under discussion is hitting full shots with wedges, something you say you don't do (and would shudder at the thought of doing with a lob wedge.)

Every club can be swung in a variety of ways; it is up to the individual using it to get the most from it and apply their skill as most fits the situation, whether it is a 10, 40, 70 or whatever yard distance shot to whatever sort of target. Precluding any option from that makes no sense.

Your completely missing the point. The goal is to hit ball a certain yardage at a target and it's irrelevant how you swing or what club you use. The goal is to get the ball as close to the target as possible. I haven't precluded anything, all my yardages are covered but I choose a club/shot combination with the least destructive outcome when things are not 100%.

Getting a lob wedge parallel to the ground with a full shoulder rotation on your back swing means (no matter how much you argue) there is more chance to get out of sequence on the downswing as opposed to a 3/4 swing. How destructive that will be will probably depending on your skill level and ability to rescue it e.g. an 18 handicapper may chunk it 5 yards in front of them opposed to a pro pushing it a few yards right of their target.

I'd suggest you spend some time hitting 30 yards pitches from various parts of the club face, comparing the ball behavior to strikes from the centre. For example, slightly towards the toe or heel will impact distance or higher/lower in the face affects balls flight. Apply that understanding of shot dispersion to wedge play coupled with the fact dispersion will be magnified the greater the yardage; then maybe you might get the point.

RRPC has already probably hit the nail on the head. He has a shorter/different swing for his wedge play (as with McIlroy quote). In my case I could coil more (and get the legs more active) to get power but choose not to in preference for accuracy, so in effect i'm only turning 3/4 of my potential. Its just semantics on how you define a full swing.

bustercherry

charlieIRL wrote: »

.........bit off topic here lads!!! Will we separate these into 2 different threads?

I'd move it to a new thread because it's quite interesting. If the lads are deemed done then let them at it but first up clearly hasn't a clue judging by the article he posted.

First Up

bustercherry wrote: »

I'd move it to a new thread because it's quite interesting. If the lads are deemed done then let them at it but first up clearly hasn't a clue judging by the article he posted.

Ah stop, you are making me laugh too much and I've work to do.