La Vuelta a España, September 11, Stage 19: Medina del Campo - Avila 185km *SPOILERS*

Melodeon

Date: Friday 11th September
Type: Medium Mountains
Distance: 185Km
Start/Finish: Medina del Campo/Avila


Stage map:



Profile:



First Climb - Km 105.0 - Alto de Valdavia - Category 3:



Second Climb - Km 166.7 - Alto La Paramera - Category 2:



Last 5km:



The pavé section to the finish - Carretera la Ronda Vieja:



The General Classification after Stage 18:



Preview (© cyclingnews.com):

A day that looks made for the break, with a nasty cobbled climb just before the finish

Previous finishes in Ávila have come after a tough day in the Sierra de Gredos but this one is much more straightforward and should favour the prospects for the break much more than stage 18.

Rising for 16km at a touch over four per cent, the second-category Paramera shouldn’t stir up the GC hitters too much. The key point arrives as the riders near the finish and head onto the steep cobbled climb up into the walled city of Ávila.

Irishman Philip Deignan won on the Vuelta’s last visit in 2009, suggesting punchy climbers should have an edge. That’s backed up by Luis León Sánchez’s victory here in a 2012 Vuelta a Castilla y León stage that also featured the Paramera.

LIVE TV:
British Eurosport - 3.00pm
TG4 - 3:00pm

HIGHLIGHTS:
ITV4 - 7:00pm
Eurosport 2 - 7:30pm
TG4 - 0:30am

Melodeon

Just by way of a bit of added interest, here's the top 10 in the Points Classification:


Nico's level with Aru and not that far off the top 3.

MPFGLB

Thanks Melodeon ...You are doing a fantastic job on the previews

Andre 3000

Purito for the win and Aru to put in about 5 seconds into Tom.

MPFGLB

Funnily enough this is the stage I thought would suit Nico Roche

He might not be in the break tomorrow as he may not be let and he may not get alot of sleep tonight

However the break may not get all the way and there could be a counter break so who knows

If it s the peloton make it to the finish then Valverde for me

pelevin

Two dark horses have come to the fore this Vuelta - Dumoulin and Melodeon.

Subpopulus

Nico to finish an hour ahead of the pack and take the red and green jerseys and hold them to Madrid.

I'm telling ya...

Inquitus

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Purito for the win and Aru to put in about 5 seconds into Tom.

No chance Aru puts time into Tom today, if anything its more likely Tom would put time into Aru on this finish.

Melodeon

Inquitus wrote: »

No chance Aru puts time into Tom today, if anything its more likely Tom would put time into Aru on this finish.

I kinda thought he could have done it yesterday.
He surged forward a few km from the end and a few others followed him but Aru was disconnected. Would a Tony Martinesque head-down-arse-up time trial effort to the end have put more time into Aru?

death1234567

Inquitus wrote: »

No chance Aru puts time into Tom today, if anything its more likely Tom would put time into Aru on this finish.

Agreed. It's only 60m of vertical climbing, even if the surface isn't great it should be one to just power up.

D3PO

be a fairly mundane stage form a gc perspective until the pave section I suspect.

I really hope Tom can put a few seconds into Aru et al to give him a bit of a buffer.

Hes been phenomenal and deserves to win this Vuelta. he has 3 teams in Movistar, Astana and Katusha ganging up on him single handedly as he has no mountain doms to assist and hes still holding strong.

to me its the most remarkable ride ive ever witnessed from a cyclist in a GT.

Eamonnator

D3PO wrote: »

be a fairly mundane stage form a gc perspective until the pave section I suspect.

I really hope Tom can put a few seconds into Aru et al to give him a bit of a buffer.

Hes been phenomenal and deserves to win this Vuelta. he has 3 teams in Movistar, Astana and Katusha ganging up on him single handedly as he has no mountain doms to assist and hes still holding strong.

to me its the most remarkable ride ive ever witnessed from a cyclist in a GT.

I thought Chris Horner's ride in the Vuelta, 1n 2013, was pretty remarkable.

D3PO

Eamonnator wrote: »

I thought Chris Horner's ride in the Vuelta, 1n 2013, was pretty remarkable.

I put Horners ride in the same bucket I put Cobos from 2011 but anyway lets not go down that road.

pelevin

Yeah, with Horner & Dumoulin, 2 very unexpected Vuelta performances but met with 2 very different emotional responses by most folks, me amongst them.
Was interesting all right Dumoulin not pushing on when Aru was gapped near the finish yday. Obviously we don't know how Dumoulin was feeling on the inside but it was a psychological victory at least.

I know obviously most, me included again, are very much on Dumoulin's side but in fairness to Aru, & avoiding the whole 'Astana' issue, he is a real fighter and goes all in when he does go, whether in attack or saving a situation when he's in trouble, thus apart from Nico making yday for instance compelling stuff willing to ditch his team a long way from the summit of the climb. I actually kind of like his 'style' on the bike, a bit like Hesjedal, like some big, rangy goofy dog, all wholehearted enthusiasm, tongue hanging out, nothing held back. He's I suppose as ugly in the sense of removed from classical elegance as Froome, but where Froome's ugliness is for me like some kind of remorseless machine, Hesjedal & Aru being more pronounced again, is the kind of opposite of a machine, animalistically unfettered.
And yes, just like most of us I want clean winners but I'm not going to just damn Aru by definition, whether that's naïve or not.

Eamonnator

D3PO wrote: »

I put Horners ride in the same bucket I put Cobos from 2011 but anyway lets not go down that road.

I don't know how to put in those sarcastic smiley thingies.

Leroy42

Was Dumolin consider even an outside bet prior to La Vuelta? After the last few GT's its nice to see someone outside the big 4 in the mix but on what basis as Dumolin delivered such a performance.

I don't know a lot about him, and just wondering if this is as out of the blue as I consider it to be as simply a case of me missing the obvious (again).

It appears all the more unlikely given that Giant don't have a strong team around him, so unlike the other favorites who turn up clearly ready to fight, with the team, for victory. Giant themselves seemed to be unaware of this possibility and thus he is left to fight for himself most of the time.

dastardly00

57 km gone and a ginormous breakaway have a ginormous lead of 13'27".

Team Sky: Christian Knees
AG2R - La Mondiale: Alexis Gougeard
BMC: Amaël Moinard
Caja Rural - Seguros RGA: David Arroyo, Ricardo Vilela
Cofidis: Cyril Lemoine
Colombia: Fabio Duarte, Leonardo Duque, Juan Pablo Valencia
Etixx - Quick Step: Maxime Bouet
FDJ: Mickael Delage
IAM Cycling: Jérôme Coppel
Lampre - Merida: Nelson Oliveira
Lotto Soudal: Maxime Monfort, Tosh Van der Sande
Movistar: Andrey Amador, Francisco Ventoso
MTN - Qhubeka: Natnael Berhane
Cannondale - Garmin: Ben King
Europcar: Jimmy Engoulvent
Katusha: Tiago Machado, Eduard Vorganov
Tinkoff - Saxo: Pavel Brutt
Trek Factory: Markel Irizar

Inquitus

dastardly00 wrote: »

57 km gone and a ginormous breakaway have a ginormous lead of 13'27".

Given Tom Dumoulin has the 3 sec lead it does him no harm to have the vaguaries of bonifications removed from the equation.

Rambling Man

Crash. 2 Leaders down and up again.

D3PO

Leroy42 wrote: »

Was Dumolin consider even an outside bet prior to La Vuelta? After the last few GT's its nice to see someone outside the big 4 in the mix but on what basis as Dumolin delivered such a performance.

I don't know a lot about him, and just wondering if this is as out of the blue as I consider it to be as simply a case of me missing the obvious (again).

It appears all the more unlikely given that Giant don't have a strong team around him, so unlike the other favorites who turn up clearly ready to fight, with the team, for victory. Giant themselves seemed to be unaware of this possibility and thus he is left to fight for himself most of the time.

he was available at 1000-1 before the race to win it that said this isn't totally out of the blue. I know that sounds a contradiction.

He would have been in the yellow jersey for a few stages at the Tour De France only for a crash earlier this year and showed in the tour de Suisse he can climb.

He was always seen as a top talent but it is a surprise hes actually challenging for the win.

Its not in the realms of unbelievable though where thered be massive question marks.

dastardly00

This article by Daniel Friebe is well worth a read.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vuelta-a-espana-iconic-stages-vandenbroucke-and-the-99-race/

A stage in the '99 Vuelta finished in the same town, Avila, as the race is today. The article is about the Frank Vandenbroucke's victory that day.

An EPO rider 'on steroids' is my way of describing him.

Darkglasses

dastardly00 wrote: »

This article by Daniel Friebe is well worth a read.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vuelta-a-espana-iconic-stages-vandenbroucke-and-the-99-race/

A stage in the '99 Vuelta finished in the same town, Avila, as the race is today. The article is about the Frank Vandenbroucke's victory that day.

An EPO rider 'on steroids' is my way of describing him.

Didn't know much about him, sad sad story.

MPFGLB

I am constantly surprised and dejected on social media that Froome is treated like a criminal when he & SKY produce a very good performance as at the Tour ( esp after the rest day) and there are calls for data and citations of how its all unbelievable,etc. The antagonists cite the fact that they have been burnt too many times and don't believe performances and if its too good to be true then it is

The same people accept this unprecedented performance by Dumoulin without question, requests for data , dubious science on weight to power estimates and have nothing to say or indeed ask

I cast no aspersions against SKy or Dumoulin, But I find the hypocrisy of those who do against just one team/performance unpalatable and ridiculous

If you don't question Dumoulin's performance then you are in no position to question SKY

pelevin

VDB's supposed to have been one of the most awesome natural talents, clear from a very young age, but mental frailties/volatile nature & a sick era added up to catastrophe. Remember being told this anecdote I just searched for:

'An unnamed rider, speaking to journalist Philippe van Holle, recalled meeting him during a race soon afterwards (as published originally in ProCycling):

"It must have been when I was about 19 or 20 and went out training with a friend on the Belgian borders. As we spun along, out of nowhere this skinny blond kid was on our back wheel. He looked about 14. He was still there 15 minutes later, so we picked up speed. He just sat there, so we picked up the pace again. It was still no problem for him. I looked over my shoulder and he gave me a half-mocking, half-friendly grin. In the end, we went as hard as we could to try to get rid of him and teach the little brat a lesson, because by now he was getting a bit too cocky for our tastes. But whatever we did, he still hung on. After about an hour, we came into a village called Ploegsteert, at which point he came alongside with real arrogance and said 'OK, I'm back home now, so 'bye. By the way, I'm Frank Vandenbroucke.' Neither of us had ever met a kid like him."'

Pudsy33

MPFGLB wrote: »

I am constantly surprised and dejected on social media that Froome is treated like a criminal when he & SKY produce a very good performance as at the Tour ( esp after the rest day) and there are calls for data and citations of how its all unbelievable,etc. The antagonists cite the fact that they have been burnt too many times and don't believe performances and if its too good to be true then it is

The same people accept this unprecedented performance by Dumoulin without question, requests for data , dubious science on weight to power estimates and have nothing to say or indeed ask

I cast no aspersions against SKy or Dumoulin, But I find the hypocrisy of those who do against just one team/performance unpalatable and ridiculous

If you don't question Dumoulin's performance then you are in no position to question SKY

I've seen plenty of questions surrounding Dumoulin and his performance to be honest. Not as much as Froome admittedly, but a lot of that is to do with the fact the Tour is more popular than the Vuelta.

pelevin

Certainly no relevant GC bonus seconds today with 50kms left & the break with over 15 minutes lead.

D3PO

MPFGLB wrote: »

I am constantly surprised and dejected on social media that Froome is treated like a criminal when he & SKY produce a very good performance as at the Tour ( esp after the rest day) and there are calls for data and citations of how its all unbelievable,etc. The antagonists cite the fact that they have been burnt too many times and don't believe performances and if its too good to be true then it is

The same people accept this unprecedented performance by Dumoulin without question, requests for data , dubious science on weight to power estimates and have nothing to say or indeed ask

I cast no aspersions against SKy or Dumoulin, But I find the hypocrisy of those who do against just one team/performance unpalatable and ridiculous

If you don't question Dumoulin's performance then you are in no position to question SKY

The fact Dumoulin appears human and has been dropped in pretty much all the high mountain stages in week 2 would be a key factor behind that.

his performance has been gritty and tactically superb but he hasn't been blowing mountain goats off the road.

Add to that that Sky put a target on their own back. they are the ones who made statements about being transparent, etc etc not Giant Alpecin.

Darkglasses

D3PO wrote: »

The fact Dumoulin appears human and has been dropped in pretty much all the high mountain stages in week 2 would be a key factor behind that.

his performance has been gritty and tactically superb but he hasn't been blowing mountain goats off the road.

Add to that that Sky put a target on their own back. they are the ones who made statements about being transparent, etc etc not Giant Alpecin.

Giant Alpecin (as Argos Shimano) made a feature film about how clean they are. It's really just that Sky and the Tour are more famous.

D3PO

Darkglasses wrote: »

Giant Alpecin (as Argos Shimano) made a feature film about how clean they are. It's really just that Sky and the Tour are more famous.

No harm in them doing that (I don't recall any Giant, Argos Shimano rider done for doping) Sky aren't picked on because they are more famous but because people see Brailsford aas talking out of both sides of his mouth .

transparent, claims on who they will only hire in terms of medial staff, claims that they wont use TUEs and race then go and go it over and over.

They didn't have to make any of these claims, but they did and when you do you can expect to be targeted when you don't live up to those claims.

FWIW Ive never questioned Froome or Sky but I can understand why some do.

pelevin

I've a feeling the Sky/Dumoulin conversation can only end in tears.

godtabh

Darkglasses wrote: »

Giant Alpecin (as Argos Shimano) made a feature film about how clean they are. It's really just that Sky and the Tour are more famous.

Good film. Watched it recently. Which ride was it that didn't finish the tour that year?

Darkglasses

godtabh wrote: »

Good film. Watched it recently. Which ride was it that didn't finish the tour that year?

Veelers? Yeah, I liked the film too. I think the Veelers/Cav thing kinda made the thing.

Darkglasses

D3PO wrote: »

No harm in them doing that (I don't recall any Giant, Argos Shimano rider done for doping) Sky aren't picked on because they are more famous but because people see Brailsford aas talking out of both sides of his mouth .

transparent, claims on who they will only hire in terms of medial staff, claims that they wont use TUEs and race then go and go it over and over.

They didn't have to make any of these claims, but they did and when you do you can expect to be targeted when you don't live up to those claims.

FWIW Ive never questioned Froome or Sky but I can understand why some do.

Honestly I think the most hot air about Froome/Sky appears every time Froome has a good stage in the Tour. At least that's when I see it most on the forum here, and have to do the most moderating. The TUE and medical staff things, that flies under the radar for most casuals (who are usually the most flippant about doping speculation).

pelevin wrote: »

I've a feeling the Sky/Dumoulin conversation can only end in tears.

Possibly, let's please post carefully people

godtabh

Darkglasses wrote: »

Veelers? Yeah, I liked the film too. I think the Veelers/Cav thing kinda made the thing.

Thats it. I had him confused with Dumoulin

Some change of form for Kittel since then. No special haircuts any more!

Eamonnator

Darkglasses wrote: »

Giant Alpecin (as Argos Shimano) made a feature film about how clean they are. It's really just that Sky and the Tour are more famous.

Yes they use a lot of shampoo.

Macy0161

MPFGLB wrote: »

If you don't question Dumoulin's performance then you are in no position to question SKY

Dumoulin has more to back it up than Froome had before his break out vuelta (before which even sky weren't renewing him!).

I think it is being questioned, but like I said he has more of a path of development. Main reason is that there isn't the same coverage is that the Tour is the Tour (always wanted to use that) and the vuelta doesn't have the exposure or interest.

pelevin

Eamonnator wrote: »

Yes they use a lot of shampoo.

I've heard rumours the whole team is infected with lice.

Macy0161

D3PO wrote: »

transparent, claims on who they will only hire in terms of medial staff, claims that they wont use TUEs and race then go and go it over and over.

There was a recent Cycling Podcast which covered a Rapha question and answer with Rod Ellingworth and a Sky Doctor. They were discussing treating Froome's chest issues, without a TUE. The doctor listed what they did, and then said something along the lines of "and other things we can't reveal". Bang your head off the wall type stuff if you ask me. If it's legal, just bloody say what it is!

I also believe sky are clean - at least in the doing nothing contrary to the current codes. The question of what is "clean" is a whole other debate!

godtabh

Macy0161 wrote: »

There was a recent Cycling Podcast which covered a Rapha question and answer with Rod Ellingworth and a Sky Doctor. They were discussing treating Froome's chest issues, without a TUE. The doctor listed what they did, and then said something along the lines of "and other things we can't reveal". Bang your head off the wall type stuff if you ask me. If it's legal, just bloody say what it is!

I also believe sky are clean - at least in the doing nothing contrary to the current codes. The question of what is "clean" is a whole other debate!

Why? To give other teams and advantage? Just because they didnt disclose it doesn't mean its illegal.

Kav0777

pelevin wrote: »

I've heard rumours the whole team is infected with lice.

No soaping speculation please... :P

neris

just tuned into eurosport. take it theres sweet FA happening if everyones talking shampoo and sky here

pelevin

godtabh wrote: »

Why? To give other teams and advantage? Just because they didnt disclose it doesn't mean its illegal.

Well I'd say it's pretty naturally going to encourage scepticism if a cycling team claims to have secret effective methods for chest problems that they won't reveal.

Trojan

Personally, I think Froome is clean. I think the problems with Sky are (1) their hypocrisy and u-turns on previous statements, and (2) the actions they take when accused are those we'd expect from a guilty team, not an innocent one. They sow the seeds of doubt at every turn. The above mentioned interview is yet another perfect example of this.

Dumoulin - who I also believe clean - is doing a superb job hanging on to this red. I hope he can hold it to Madrid now.

pelevin

neris wrote: »

just tuned into eurosport. take it theres sweet FA happening if everyones talking shampoo and sky here

There's a guy at the front of the Giant-Alpecin train in the peloton with very blue shoes.

neris

pelevin wrote: »

There's a guy at the front of the Giant-Alpecin train in the peloton with very blue shoes.

Suede by any chance?

Daroxtar

I think the only negative thing about Dumoulin is I had him in my Velo Games squad but chopped him at the last minute to make sure I could get Nibali in....

pelevin

neris wrote: »

Suede by any chance?

His team doctor has imposed a "no comment" policy on the material.

Macy0161

godtabh wrote: »

Why? To give other teams and advantage? Just because they didnt disclose it doesn't mean its illegal.

They're lack of transparency is what makes it hard for them to defend themselves as to whether they're clean or not. The tour is over now, they could reveal the treatment.

Personally, it would make me question what they were doing. Does not banned/ not currently illegal = clean for Sky?

neris

waiting for Kelly to call Gougeard from ag2r Goujon

neris

Macy0161 wrote: »

They're lack of transparency is what makes it hard for them to defend themselves as to whether they're clean or not. The tour is over now, they could reveal the treatment.

Personally, it would make me question what they were doing. Does not banned/ not currently illegal = clean for Sky?

I thought Brailsford had said at one stage they go up to the line/boundry with what they do and stop just before it becomes illegal/cheating/doping

MPFGLB

I see Cav was fighting again yesterday at the Tour of Britain (with Gorka Izzagire)

The argument on skepticism about SKY being only because its the Tour does not stand up as many of the disclaimers are on here watching the Vuelta

I know you cannot change the minds of people who want to believe what they want and also SKY can look after themselves

My issue is that the accusations during the Tour based solely on performance and nothing else and targeted at one team do so much to destroy the sport and stop sponsors entering when they are badly needed.

By the way those saying SKY should release data and never saying anything without complete follow through and total transparency.
Where si you call for GIANT data now ...and how do you know what Tues GIANT use or how close they fly to the line of what is legitimate ...I suggest you don't