Clause 19

OffalyMedic

Can someone please tell me, does clause 19 only come into effect in stroke play competitions?

Boskowski

Thats my understanding. To ensure that a bad stroke hole only counts like a scratch for handicap calculation purposes, but no worse. Not like the 8 or 10 or whatever it actually was. Therefore it wouldn't make sense in a non stroke context.

mike12

It is to prevent say a 12 handicapper shooting 17 holes in even par then 1 hole in 12 over looks like he played to his handicap but in fact he will get cut.
He would have had 40 something points in stableford so the clause 19 just roundsit down to a scratch

OffalyMedic

mike12 wrote: »

It is to prevent say a 12 handicapper shooting 17 holes in even par then 1 hole in 12 over looks like he played to his handicap but in fact he will get cut.
He would have had 40 something points in stableford so the clause 19 just roundsit down to a scratch

Think this is exactally what happened me...played 17/18 holes in +8 off 12 but had +4 on one hole so instead of getting cut .2x4 i actually got cut .2x6. Happy days

PARlance

Boskowski wrote: »

Thats my understanding. To ensure that a bad stroke hole only counts like a scratch for handicap calculation purposes, but no worse. Not like the 8 or 10 or whatever it actually was. Therefore it wouldn't make sense in a non stroke context.

Pretty sure that V-Par is also subject to Clause 19. You could finish 2 up in V-Par but could have 40+ points in theory.

Edit to explain:
You could have 16 Net Pars... 32 points and A/S in V-Par.
Then you could have 2 Net eagles... 8 points to leave you 2 up and 40 points.

Boskowski

I looked it up quickly and it says 'should be applied to all stroke competitions'. But I don't know really about the v-par.

PARlance

Boskowski wrote: »

I looked it up quickly and it says 'should be applied to all stroke competitions'. But I don't know really about the v-par.

V-Par singles would be a stroke (ie non matchplay) comp.

Hoof Hearted2

PARlance wrote: »

V-Par singles would be a stroke (ie non matchplay) comp.

V-Par is matchplay against the course, i.e. matchplay against the Par of the course, hence the name V-Par, so clause 19 wouldn't apply.

Seve OB

PARlance wrote: »

Pretty sure that V-Par is also subject to Clause 19. You could finish 2 up in V-Par but could have 40+ points in theory.

Edit to explain:
You could have 16 Net Pars... 32 points and A/S in V-Par.
Then you could have 2 Net eagles... 8 points to leave you 2 up and 40 points.

actually think about that again. You are right in your calcs, but it has nothing to do with clause 19

Seve OB

clause 19 bring a strokes score down to a score where it would be the lowest score a player would scratch the hole, ie a net double bogey.

so if you score (or would have scored) any number of points on all 18 holes, be it in a points game strokes or v-par, there will never be a clause 19 adj to your score.

if you are playing points and scratch the hole, it doesn't matter if you scratch it by 1 or 10, it's a scratch, so clause 19 doesn't come into play

if you are playing v-par, and loose the hole with a net bogey, there is no clause 19 adj. if you loose the hole with a net double, there is no clause 19 adj. if you loose the hole with anything worse, there will be a clause 19 adj. However, (and I'm open to correction on this as V-Par is not something I play very often), surely when you are putting in your score in the computer, you can put in a 0 if you loose the hole, so in theory that would be just like most people would do when playing points comp, and clause 19 would not actually be in play. The problem with v-par for handicap purposes is that a 1 point hole is the same as a 10, it's a loss, but then I guess you can only get a max of .1 back for any games so no to much of a problem!

PARlance

Yip, you're right Seve.
V-Par must be considered a match play format so.
You can pick up even though you may have a chance of a net bogey/1 pointer as at that stage the hole is lost so there's no real chance of identifying the true score.
You can for holes that you win, but not for those that you lose.

Seve OB

V par is most definitely a matchplay comp

denishurley

From looking at results, the CSS for v-par comps is often expressed in v-par format, I think?