Foreign language film Snobbery

Big Wex fan

I've my motorized sat dish now for well over a year and I've noticed there is a lot of decent looking French, German, Italian etc movies on that never get the light of day in the English speaking old television. I'm not sure if it's the film makers or the TV channels who dub English language movies to the local languages but can only assume it's laziness or snobbery to think people wouldn't watch European movies. Especially now that most people have seen the hollywood movies before they make it to free to air channels. I'm not a fan of subtitles. But I don't see why the tv channels can't hire a few unemployed actors to dub a decent foreign movie or tv show. I'm sure they would be cheap enough to buy with the potential to sell on.

Harry Palmr

Almost no one likes dubbed films unless its for the laugh in Spaghetti westerns. Subtitles can be poorly done at times but they are certainly preferable for this viewer.

A TV channel would have nothing to do with dubbing by the way - that's a matter for the distributor in consultation with the production company.

darkdubh

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Almost no one likes dubbed films unless its for the laugh in Spaghetti westerns. Subtitles can be poorly done at times but they are certainly preferable for this viewer.

A TV channel would have nothing to do with dubbing by the way - that's a matter for the distributor in consultation with the production company.

I remember when we got Sky in the early 90s when there was a load of German channels with the package.I was pretty peeved that they would always have Hollywood movies dubbed into German.As you said dubbing is fine for Kung Fu flicks or B Movies but it must be strange for German film viewers that they never get to hear Robert De Niro,Marlon Brando etc speak in their own voices but some unknown guy dubbing their lines.

MagicMarker

Op, it's doesn't sound like you actually watch these movies? Maybe try that, or are you too lazy? Subtitles are far better than dubbing ffs!

I can just imagine Nidge dubbing some French flick on his days off.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dubbing is terrible.

I remember watching a couple of minutes of Das Boot where all the voices were dubbed into english and it was simply appalling.

e_e

IMO if you can't take miliseconds to read subtitles then you're probably not paying enough attention to the film in the first place.

Ironically enough I find subtitles let me focus on the film further because it needs your eyes to be on the screen at all times. If I was forced to sit and listen to American voices over French, Italian or Japanese actors I'd just tune out tbh. There's a real dissonance to dubbing, besides it kind of ruins the unique cultural appeal of these movies doesn't it?

pixelburp

e_e wrote: »

IMO if you can't take miliseconds to read subtitles then you're probably not paying enough attention to the film in the first place.
[...]

I've got to counter this for a second, because that's a bit glib and feels a tad reductionist. I don't agree with the OPs point of view mind you so let me say that first. Speaking personally though, I really have to be in the mood to watch a subtitled film because, yes, it does take a little more effort to engage with a film if you have to constantly keep your eye on the bottom of the screen, mapping the words to the emotion of the dialogue spoken. It adds more mechanical complexity to the experience that isn't always welcome.

Oddly, the larger the TV / cinema screen, the greater this problem manifests itself for me; maybe it's because there's more real estate I need to keep track of but I find susbtitled films really become a chore on a larger display.

One of the things I like about film - good film - is that it can be an inherently passive experience where key moments & emotions can be transferred to the viewer subconsciously. Be it through dialogue, blocking, colour, music etc. etc. I want the film to wash out and over me, no action required by me! Subtitles can fundamentally break that subliminal connection & so I can find watching a subtitled film a more ... well, tiring experience. Maybe I'm just a broken old 35 year old, but foreign-language films can be a little more exhausting to a fogey like me That's not to say I don't watch them, I just definitely have to be in the mood to do so.

Now, for context, I'm a total bookworm & arguably moreso that than a cinephile, so reading does not bring out an allergic reaction in me

endacl

Dubbing is usually ridiculous. Ever seen the original Mad Max, where Mel Gibson's voice is replaced with an American actor's for the U.S. release?

Arsemageddon

The last dubbed film I tried to watch was Stalingrad dubbed into English, I lasted 15 minutes - it was unwatchable.

A Polish lad I know told me that the practice in Poland used to be for just one fella to do all of the film's dialogue!

JohnFalstaff

darkdubh wrote: »

I remember when we got Sky in the early 90s when there was a load of German channels with the package.I was pretty peeved that they would always have Hollywood movies dubbed into German.As you said dubbing is fine for Kung Fu flicks or B Movies but it must be strange for German film viewers that they never get to hear Robert De Niro,Marlon Brando etc speak in their own voices but some unknown guy dubbing their lines.

Germany is one of the places that dubs pretty much every non German language film and bizarrely the actors who dub certain well known actors become almost as well known as their American counterparts.

So for example it's the same German voice actor who dubs all Clint Eastwood's roles. (Same for Stallone, Cruise etc. Even high profile TV actors get this treatment.)

As a result these voice actors become known as the 'voice' of Clint or whoever and make an entire career off of it. I have been in situations where a Clint Western comes on the TV and without seeing his face onscreen a German friend will identify the voice as 'Clint Eastwood'!

riffmongous

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

Germany is one of the places that dubs pretty much every non German language film and bizarrely the actors who dub certain well known actors become almost as well known as their American counterparts.

So for example it's the same German voice actor who dubs all Clint Eastwood's roles. (Same for Stallone, Cruise etc. Even high profile TV actors get this treatment.)

As a result these voice actors become known as the 'voice' of Clint or whoever and make an entire career off of it. I have been in situations where a Clint Western comes on the TV and without seeing his face onscreen a German friend will identify the voice as 'Clint Eastwood'!

I'd watch a lot of german tv now and you get used to it really quickly, it doesnt bother me slightly tbh. One thing that was funny though was how I've watched District 9 a load of times, but only ever dubbed, until one day I looked up a clip on youtube and hearing the original south african accents sounded so strange

Decuc500

Edit: Wrong thread!

Technocentral

Big Wex fan wrote:

I've my motorized sat dish now for well over a year and I've noticed there is a lot of decent looking French, German, Italian etc movies on that never get the light of day in the English speaking old television. I'm not sure if it's the film makers or the TV channels who dub English language movies to the local languages but can only assume it's laziness or snobbery to think people wouldn't watch European movies. Especially now that most people have seen the hollywood movies before they make it to free to air channels. I'm not a fan of subtitles. But I don't see why the tv channels can't hire a few unemployed actors to dub a decent foreign movie or tv show. I'm sure they would be cheap enough to buy with the potential to sell on.

Dubbed films are for idiots too lazy or stupid to read ffs!

Jijsaw

Arsemageddon wrote: »

The last dubbed film I tried to watch was Stalingrad dubbed into English, I lasted 15 minutes - it was unwatchable.

A Polish lad I know told me that the practice in Poland used to be for just one fella to do all of the film's dialogue!

If you happen to have a Simpsons' box-set a lot of the seasons that have the multi-lingual feature have the Polish dubbing. It is literally one man reading the lines of Lisa, Marge, Barney, Smithers etc. and he puts no emphasis or anything! It is the weirdest thing!

Harry Palmr

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

So for example it's the same German voice actor who dubs all Clint Eastwood's roles. (Same for Stallone, Cruise etc. Even high profile TV actors get this treatment.)

As a result these voice actors become known as the 'voice' of Clint or whoever and make an entire career off of it. I have been in situations where a Clint Western comes on the TV and without seeing his face onscreen a German friend will identify the voice as 'Clint Eastwood'!

That must create a strange situation if the voice actor dies or is otherwise incapacitated, as an actor suddenly sounds different.

JohnFalstaff

Harry Palmr wrote: »

That must create a strange situation if the voice actor dies or is otherwise incapacitated, as an actor suddenly sounds different.

Strangely, the situation has never arisen.

NachoBusiness

Why so many negative comments about dubbing? Sure sometimes he can be grand like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdKtIYQ5h8Y

Chain Smoker

Arsemageddon wrote: »

The last dubbed film I tried to watch was Stalingrad dubbed into English, I lasted 15 minutes - it was unwatchable.

A Polish lad I know told me that the practice in Poland used to be for just one fella to do all of the film's dialogue!

This is definitely the case, I've downloaded more than my fair share of PL DVDRips in my time.

It's much better when they read it all in their own voice than when they try to play a dozen characters.

fuzzby100

In general I think the quality of foreign language films far outweighs English language films and it is worth the effort to read the subtitles.

Harry Palmr

How could you possibly know? All languages make shi'te films.

Decuc500

fuzzby100 wrote: »

In general I think the quality of foreign language films far outweighs English language films and it is worth the effort to read the subtitles.

We get to see the best of world cinema here. As said above there's plenty of duds in any language.

Boskowski

Dubbing in Germany is something that has been done forever and there is a whole industry around it pretty much since the invention of sound film. They're doing a very professional job too. I grew up in Germany and it never felt like there's something wrong with the film or so. If you didn't know you wouldn't know if you know what I mean.

As someone else said any somewhat well known actor has a German dubbing actor that sticks with them. I only ever knew any big name actor's German voice until I moved to Ireland. Of course people will say a lot of subtleties are lost and accents and the whole thing and now that I know a lot of the originals I must say thats very true, but if you don't know the original you just don't know, do you?

On those rare few occasions where I watched a film dubbed into English the experience was rather disappointing. It instantly turned the movies into B or worse movies as the quality of the dubbing just wasn't there. Seems like a bit of an art form.

I guess its got to do with industry and market sizes.
In the English speaking market the need for industry scale dubbing was never there cos most movies are produced in English to begin with. And for those few foreign movies that actually sold in the English speaking market it wasn't worth it.
Germany however is a pretty big market and while the domestic film industry is sizeable enough most movies watched in Germany are the ones that we watch over here. And once the market is big enough to make it viable then its a no brainer. I don't care what anyone says but watching a movie on subtitles just isn't the same.

fuzzby100

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How could you possibly know? All languages make shi'te films.

It's true there are duds in all languages but when you look at what the general population is watching e.g. look at Xtravision top 10 - it shows that most people will look at any old rubbish and fail to experiment with films that are made outside of Hollywood.

JohnFalstaff

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

Strangely, the situation has never arisen.

It happened when Escape Plan was released on DVD and Blu-Ray in Germany as they opted to bring in another voice over actor to do Arnie's dialogue as normally the same actor does both voice in Germany.

JohnFalstaff

Deleted User wrote: »

It happened when Escape Plan was released on DVD and Blu-Ray in Germany as they opted to bring in another voice over actor to do Arnie's dialogue as normally the same actor does both voice in Germany.

I didn't think anyone would actually take that post seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO_5Q-YZBMY

syklops

Arsemageddon wrote: »

A Polish lad I know told me that the practice in Poland used to be for just one fella to do all of the film's dialogue!

I was just about to post this! When I visit my grlfriends family in Poland, we will watch a movie in the evening, and it'll be one guy doing all the voices. boys, girls the lot. Its atrocious.

The swedish version of the girl with the dragon tattoo the dubbing is excellent. Different actors of appropriate age for each character.

johnny_ultimate

Keep it civil please. No personal abuse (have deleted the abusive post above), and that extends to derogatory comments about people who do / do not like subtitles or dubs.

Big Wex fan

Technocentral wrote: »

Dubbed films are for idiots too lazy or stupid to read ffs!

(Ok politely this time)
We English speakers are the poorer for UK and Irish channels not showing foreign language movies/ TV shows dubbed into English or even with subtitles. Obviously we're not idiots or lazy like the Europe/Asian Countries who have a greater selection to watching foreign movies in their language of choice.

jester77

Big Wex fan wrote: »

(Ok politely this time)
We English speakers are the poorer for UK and Irish channels not showing foreign language movies/ TV shows dubbed into English or even with subtitles. Obviously we're not idiots or lazy like the Europe/Asian Countries who have a greater selection to watching foreign movies in their language of choice.

Has channel 4 stopped showing foreign movies? I haven't lived in Ireland in 15 years, but growing up Channel 4 showed lots of European and Asian movies, as well as Manga, in their original language.

Ageyev

jester77 wrote: »

Has channel 4 stopped showing foreign movies? I haven't lived in Ireland in 15 years, but growing up Channel 4 showed lots of European and Asian movies, as well as Manga, in their original language.

They sure used to. I remember one weekend they showed every Gojira film in a marathon. A lot of films Ch4 would play have migrated to Film Four. Ch4 is now mostly "reality" shows, Come Dine With Me, Booze Britain, Benefits Street and the like. I don't think they show many films.

As for the original topic, I usually choose subtitles over dubs. If needs be and it was a good film I would watch a non-English language film without either since film is a visual medium after all. I agree with the point about having tomconcentrate harder when reading subs but it can be a way to help learn another language. I find multi-region Netflix great for stuff you wouldn't ever see get a mainstream release.

darkdubh

One thing related to subtitles that annoys me is when they Americanise the dialogue.Translating the dialogue to stuff like "Youre a jerk" "quit bugging me" etc.They especially seem to do it with French films.

Big Wex fan

syklops wrote: »

I was just about to post this! When I visit my grlfriends family in Poland, we will watch a movie in the evening, and it'll be one guy doing all the voices. boys, girls the lot. Its atrocious.

The swedish version of the girl with the dragon tattoo the dubbing is excellent. Different actors of appropriate age for each character.

(Must try find the Swedish version - heard it was better than the remade English 1)

A lot of Polish channels do this interpreter voice over with foreign films which sounds awful alright to me. But the fact that they do so many, guess it's OK for the Polish audience. I think it's must be a cheap alternative to dubbing.



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