DL main street retailers doing it right

zagmund

Last time I was down at the Peoples Park on a Sunday (a couple of months back), I was thinking to myself that the retailers on Georges Street were missing out a huge amount of business by not opening on Sunday afternoons. There were a lot of people including me walking back from the market walking past lots of closed shops.

I was there again yesterday and I see things have changed - there's a whole lot of shops open that end of the street now, and they were full of people coming from the market (if the bags of food were anything to go by).

Call me an old romantic and unbound optimist, but I think that end of DL has the potential for a bit of Portobello Road type business. The market in the park already brings in pretty big numbers of people who are out for a bit of a Sunday mooch, so the addition of a couple of antique (or whatever niche market would suit) shops down that end of the street could benefit the main street *and* the park retailers.

z

pedroeibar1

Zag,
That end of DL has been a dog for 50 years. There is a “sort of” plan to divide DL into shopping districts, furniture at one end, clothing the other, etc. but there are many other problems to be resolved first and DLRCC have not got the intellect to even see them.

IN the late 1960’s/early 70’s there were two Murdocks stores at the Park end, they closed, as did Murrays record shop and a very popular café. That reduced some footfall but the real blow came with the demolition of the Adelphi Cinema leaving a site with a long hoarding – it literally cut the town in half and stopped pedestrian traffic. It's not much better now with office blocks dominating that stretch on both sides.

Then, early 1970's the Northern “Troubles” and changes in lifestyle reduced the number of English visitors – there once was a thriving B&B trade. DLRCC had/has a hugely negative impact on the commercial environment, planning, parking, traffic management, high rates, etc., etc. and ignores the issues, concentrating on vanity projects.

As for staying open late / Sundays, a couple of DL retailers in c1970 tried late opening on Thursday & Friday nights (to compete with a recently opened Cornellscourt) - but were picketed by staff from other stores Cassidys, Lees, McCulloghs. The first later was taken over by Dunnes, the latter two closed and Dunnes now occupy the Lee’s site.

A bit of wise planning, a parking/traffic policy that was realistic and DL could have been a great centre. It has missed the boat and now it's too late and never will rival places like Dundrum. The stupidity of DLR knows no bounds and I’m not going to get worked up by debating them in this thread.

zagmund

"never will rival places like Dundrum" . . . the thing is, there's a whole cohort of people like me who consider the idea of spending an afternoon in Dundrum (or the shopping centre, really) as marginally better than having toenails pulled. I don't want DL to be like Dundrum.

z

ted1

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

It has missed the boat and now it's too late and never will rival places like Dundrum. The stupidity of DLR knows no bounds and I’m not going to get worked up by debating them in this thread.

That's defeatist attitude. Plenty of areas work in cycles. It wasn't to long ago when grand canal dock was a no go area. Dun Laoighre will rise again..

Larbre34

Rent levels and store types are nothing to do with the Council, and I say that as someone who rents a premises in DL.

The proposal to break the town up into sections with different retail types didn't come from the Council, it was a submission of an entity connected to element of the business community. It was also the biggest load of nonsense Ive ever read. You cannot dictate to a bunch of private property owners what type of shop they must contain. Imagine telling the landlord of a lucrative pharmacy for instance that they now have to run a soft furnishings store with about 3 customers a day. And the idea to put a roof over the main street in order to compete with Dundrum :rolleyes:

The beginning of an improvement down at the Peoples Park end of the town is welcome, but it is an organic thing, a slow increase in footfall will bring on more businesses and hopefully that can snowball.

Theres a lot people like the poster above ready to fire brickbats at the Council for factors that have absolutely nothing to do with them. The Council didnt kill the B&B trade, Ryanair did. The Council didnt picket shops trying to break with tradition, other businesses and unions did. NIMBYism doesnt come from the Council, it comes from the Community.

The prices of the parking regime is a problem, but dont forget it only came about because of a lobby of public representatives from residents and businesses who could not get parking during the day as the whole town was turned into a DART carpark. As a business owner myself I welcome the fact my clients can park easily within a street or two, and my residential neighbours can park near their homes again once they drop their kids to school. Also the footpaths are free for pedestrians and not abandoned cars.

Dun Laoghaire's biggest issues have always been and continue to be, high commercial rents, local conservatism and resistance to change and divisions in the business and community groups. And also high rates, I cant argue with that as a ratepayer. Our friend the poster above is living in the past and ironically thats the sort of attitude that has lead to the town being like it is, not keeping up with the times. All those stores you mention are not just gone from DL, they are no longer found anywhere and they will never be back. DL cant ignore the realities of the times.

Awaaf

Larbre34 wrote: »

Rent levels and store types are nothing to do with the Council, and I say that as someone who rents a premises in DL.

The prices of the parking regime is a problem, but dont forget it only came about because of a lobby of public representatives from residents and businesses who could not get parking during the day as the whole town was turned into a DART carpark.

Yes in all the chatter about DL everyone forgets what DL was like prior to the meters - you could circle the town for hours looking for a place. Now at least you will always get a space. Personally I think a good solution would be the one used on the continent where you get 30 mins (or whatever) free based on setting your arrival time on a little plastic clock thing which is stuck inside your windscreen. After that you pay.

pedroeibar1

I leased an office in DL for 10 years. Three staff were laid off - it was closed (primarily) because of location image and the cost of rates.

What a series of very sad responses! Obviously I’ve touched a collective nerve of people with bigger mouths than brains! I set out the background to the decline of one end of DL, I pointed out several weaknesses and get dished up a load of tripe from posters who appear to like congratulating each other with “Likes” that are as meaningless as the dross they write. Not one contradiction/comment on the historical truth of what I wrote!

In what management procedure is the identification of a problem regarded as defeatist?

Where did I advocate an afternoon in Dundrum as being pleasurable?

Where did I advocate the splitting of DL into zones?

Where did I say that rent levels and store types had anything to do with the Council?

Where did I say the council killed the B&B trade?

It is the height of stupidity to compare Grand Canal Dock to DL and the cyclical nature of trade – GCD was primarily a coalyard and gas operation, not retail, and was built on the success of Google, LinkedIN, etc. and local appartment building/density. DL had its chance and blew it!

It is equally stupid to state that shops like McCulloghs are “Just gone everywhere” – you might consider that it was replaced by Shaws, not a dissimilar venture.

And the snobbery of suggesting that shopping Dundrum is beneath one is sad – perhaps if DL had a fraction of Dundrums footfall this thread would not exist!

It’s obvious that DL will continue to die if the inaccurate comment offered by you guys is the best its supporters has to offer!

ted1

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

It is the height of stupidity to compare Grand Canal Dock to DL and the cyclical nature of trade – GCD was primarily a coalyard and gas operation, not retail, and was built on the success of Google, LinkedIN, etc. and local appartment building/density. DL had its chance and blew it!!

I strongly disagree, there's plenty off room for development space available witching the harbour area and indeed the shopping centre that could be used to attract FDI similar to
Google, etc And the success could be mirrored.

I also had a shop in DL for years but moved it to town for higher Footfall. but I still see the possibility that DL has, if they attract some destination shops others will benefit as a result

Larbre34

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

What a series of very sad responses! Obviously I’ve touched a collective nerve of people with bigger mouths than brains!

Ok, good that we can have a discussion without throwing out the toys:rolleyes:

It's a bit rich to suggest you touched a nerve with us when your original post indicated you weren't going to "get yourself worked up by debating them (the Council) in this thread".

Without quoting your entire post, I would suggest that starting it with "DLRCC have not got the intellect" and ending with "the stupidity of DLR knows no bounds" and then listing a heap of issues in the middle, is a classic essay treatment which reads as blaming them for everything. If you don't want to ellicit "sad responses" then see about putting your point across better.

And ease up on the superlatives, it makes you come across as slightly unhinged.

pedroeibar1

Larbre34 wrote: »

Ok, good that we can have a discussion without throwing out the toys:rolleyes:

It's a bit rich to suggest you touched a nerve with us when your original post indicated you weren't going to "get yourself worked up by debating them (the Council) in this thread".

Without quoting your entire post, I would suggest that starting it with "DLRCC have not got the intellect" and ending with "the stupidity of DLR knows no bounds" and then listing a heap of issues in the middle, is a classic essay treatment which reads as blaming them for everything. If you don't want to ellicit "sad responses" then see about putting your point across better.

And ease up on the superlatives, it makes you come across as slightly unhinged.

Go check what a superlative is and then look at my post again. Count them (all one of them).;)

Taking my comment that DLRCC’s traffic/road management is a disaster –

How many times in recent years has Avondale Rd been reconfigured?

How many times has the Albert Rd roundabout been reconfigured?

How many times has George’s Street traffic been reconfigured?

Look at the filter lane on the Rochestown Ave/ Johnstown Rd going west – it actually narrows to less than the width of a car.

Look at the traffic light management on Wyattville Road. Sorry, rephrase - - Why is there not a traffic light management system in place on one of the main feeder roads to the M50?

Look at the Parks Dept. and look at what they are doing/have done to Whiterock/Killiney/Dalkey Hills. (I accept that the renovation of the obelisk was good, but they then ruined it by putting a stainless steel rail on it!)

Look at the ugly stupid poured concrete kerb that was initially installed on Victoria Rd to hide the water that was running from an unknown overflow pipe from the KH reservoir (and which kerb has dangerously narrowed the road in places).

Look at the state of the railings along the edge of the Killiney Hill park.

Library – the management of the public spaces is a disgrace, it is like one big crèche, (I know that is a result of brats and dopey minders) but what are rules for (not to mention any hope of enforcement)?

How many more do you want?

An organization that cannot even get basic, simple things right is a very long way away from managing more serious issues, particularly one like saving a town from death!

zagmund

'sfunny, this started off as a thread saying that the retailers on Georges Street were getting things right. I'm not sure how we moved on to road works in Killiney, but I guess that's the joy of the internet.

z

Larbre34

OK, I'm not going any further with this, its clear you have bigger axes to grind and none of that you just said has anything to do with the topic or your original contribution.

In conclusion, I wouldn't be cheerleading for the Council, I think they are still overstaffed and very slow to act on things, (certainly Phil Hogan adding 12 more County Councillors only disimproved that), but as you mention the Parks Department, as someone who only works in DL but lives out in west Dublin, I'd suggest you are blessed to have them, the public parks and spaces are beautifully kept.

ted1

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Look at the traffic light management on Wyattville Road. Sorry, rephrase - - Why is there not a traffic light management system in place on one of the main feeder roads to the M50?

Look at the Parks Dept. and look at what they are doing/have done to Whiterock/Killiney/Dalkey Hills. (I accept that the renovation of the obelisk was good, but they then ruined it by putting a stainless steel rail on it!)

Look at the ugly stupid poured concrete kerb that was initially installed on Victoria Rd to hide the water that was running from an unknown overflow pipe from the KH reservoir (and which kerb has dangerously narrowed the road in places).

Look at the state of the railings along the edge of the Killiney Hill park.
!

whats wrong with the lights on wyatville road?

whats wrong with Whiterock/killiney/dalkey Hills?

The Ugly stupid concrete poured kerb is very functional, and makes the road a lot safer especially when temperatures drops as there is a lot less surfaces water. what makes you think its from a overflow? what about natural drainage through the porous rocks? and general run off from the hill itself.

whats wrong with the railings?

patrickbrophy18

Larbre34 wrote: »

And the idea to put a roof over the main street in order to compete with Dundrum :rolleyes:

Funny you mention that Larbre34. However, a roof might look a wee bit clinical and may tone down the area beneath. Having said that, the section of George's Street Lower between the main shopping center and just before Saint Michael's Hospital could be completely pedestrianized. A few of the side streets around that would have to be rejigged to carry traffic away including the Eddie Stobart articulated trucks (which, in that example, would require flipping the one-way system to travel in a south-westerly direction). Hereafter, a series of retractable awnings could be constructed to shelter the newly pedestrianized thoroughfare for when torrential rain is inevitable. What do you think?

Larbre34

I think it sounds a divisive, expensive, maintenance heavy folly that would end up being scrapped in a few short years. The only other place ive seen it done is Singapore, and they have money and good city planning.

Ideally Ireland could entirely do with a retractable roof but lets not be the guinea pigs!